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Vives is not 'fun'
Posted: 25 Nov 2003 04:44 PM |
..at least in the beginning (I don't know about high level play yet). Especially for mage characters. Probably bards too. Vives is way too hard, and this turns people away who are just starting out.
In the beginning there should be a clearly defined beginning area with some quests and items and creatures that make a character go to level 3 or so.
Mages are very hard to play as in Vives. First, mages were penalized heavily by not being able to rest often. That's ok...but then familiars cause EXP loss and you're not allowed to feed them often. Mages can't really do anything in the beginning of the game.
To make up for these heavy disadvantages when compared to the original NWN rules, mage characters should either be able to cast more spells per day, or at least have a couple starting items to aid them through the first 5 levels of play.
I've been playing for many hours so far, and all the exploration experience I've earned has been more than countered by the fact that I die all the time. Exploration experience should be more than it is currently, since one doesn't know what dangers lurk ahead. I gain 50 exp for walking into some caves, and then lose 150 for dying to the first acid arrow that comes my way. Doesn't really seem right. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 25 Nov 2003 04:53 PM |
Try being more careful. It's easy to get level 3 without even going into combat. Mages aren't meant to be panzer tanks.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 25 Nov 2003 05:09 PM |
Vives was meant to be hard in certain aspects of the game, do not forget that . In this mod the emphasis is on the Roleplay. And as such it is advised to team up with folk in adventuring and exploring the world.
Mages were always a weak class to start out with, that is not new. I can give you a few examples of mages in Vives who are doing pretty good atm. Patience, cunning and friends are the key. Or as Fen says, you aint a panzer tank so act like a non-tank. |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 25 Nov 2003 05:30 PM |
Phoenix Flamehart here. Not Chiron ;P Oh the joys of sharing PC's.
Personally, I think that people start off in entirely the wrong place in Vives. Everyone hangs around in Midor. People start at the Four Winds Inn, which is a dang hard pace to find Midor from for someone who doesn't know their way around. Perhaps detailed signs of how to reach there, maybe? |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 25 Nov 2003 05:39 PM |
| Just remember, this is a RP world. You are encouraged to RP and play with other players. Your not intended to go out and LEVEL up killing monsters ubtill your level 10 or so withing your first few days. Put your char into a role and start RPing from day one. You can do some quests with people around your level or you can get in a party with some higher level people and get some explorations xp (thats what it is there for). Dm's also give xp out for good RP so dont be suprised to get a rondom message saying you have been give ### xp for good role playing. If you just have fun with other people you'll gain you levels without noticing it, and that the best part because you wont find youself spending all your time trying to find the best way to get xp and will be free to just have fun with everyone. If your intent is to get to level 20 as fast as possible and engage in alot of PvP then you will not find that in vives. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 25 Nov 2003 05:53 PM |
...so dont be suprised to get a rondom message saying you have been give ### xp for good role playing...
### == 3, right? hmm, i only ever seem to get: "you have been given # xp for mediocre role playing" :(
-Q |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 25 Nov 2003 06:31 PM |
ROTFL Q
I have a level 5 Sorceress who has never been very far from Paws. She can maybe kill rats, with her familiar's help. She can only get through Mirghul with invisibility. For her latest level she took Grease as a spell, because that's a funnier spell for an old lady who likes to cook. I admit she's not my main character, but it can be done, to get that high all alone. Imagine what you could do with a few other players. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 25 Nov 2003 06:33 PM |
Originally the starting point was in midor........ we changed it and I will be Adding some more stuff in and around the four winds area soon. Most likely some more "obvious signposting" upon how to get there......
I also play a sorceror and yes....... it's tough at first, but this is deliberate. You will find that those classes that are tougher at lower levels will be quite a bit more powerful at higher ones........ so it's a fine balance. You make your choices :P
Levelling is a lot slower here (we help folks out though with exploration xp through the first few lvlls) because we don't want a server which is full of lvl 20's storming about like tanks and beating the crap out of everything and anything..... which would mean us making more ridiculous monsters, and unbalancing the world. Believe me....... I've seen it happen on other servers.
Points have been taken aboard though and some changes will be made around the four winds area when I have time :P
Cheers
Arathon |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 26 Nov 2003 12:32 AM |
Well I'll add my 2 cp to the heap here ;)
I also play a mage and I got to level 5 simply by exploring and doing a minor quest (with the help of my familiar, thank you Kyria). There still weren't many people on the server then and so most of the time I solo'd. Not exactly the best way to spend time on this server i assure you. Why? It is quite boring after a while, always being on your own (unless you play a lone wolf kinda person). Eventually you party with others and start interacting. And that's exactly what I advise you to do: try to party with other people.
I think I saw your character in game today but I was rather occupied by a life changing event, so pardon if Dias didn't give you all his attention. He's now a bit higher than level 5and in the meantime he got a life of his own. This means that although I try to help new players out as often as possible, he has his own business to look after (and I don't mean a shop here :P). But most of the players on Vives (be they low or high level) are willing to give advise. Don't be afraid to ask (IC I might add).
And I agree with Arathon, although mages and sorcerers are 'weak' at the lower levels they are quite invaluable (every good party consists of people of various skills) and become a lot stronger at the higher levels. You won't reach those higher levels overnight, noone did, but as a mage you're nearly always the weaker person. Even in pnp a mage always staying on the front lines is not going to live very long. A mage's best weapon is his mind (expressed in stats: intelligence). It IS possible to get to higher level, but you'll have to team up. And don't forget the most important rule here: HAVE FUN !!!!
Phoenix |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 26 Nov 2003 02:12 AM |
Let me give some examples of styles of play, all of which I have done on the same character:
Lone wolf: I did specific thing with him each time I logged on. I spent about half an hour on each time before I got so bored I logged off and started shooting things in a different game. (Then -that- game stopped working :/)
Partyboy: I eventually ran across some people and just led them to a place I had recently discovered myself. I repeatedly assured them they would be fine. (I used about 5 healing kits raising the one up :D) I was able to make jokes IC, talk, think a bit, AND watch things explode in a mist of blood. Now -thats- fun. :D
So, well, I don't know if I made my point, or if I even had one in mind... But ya gotta find people. Try to log in where other people are, and talk with 'em and RP. After all, -that- is the basis of Vives.
Tasra (the Great!) |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 26 Nov 2003 01:36 PM |
| man I can even play a sorc (lvl 5 now)... so it can't be that hard! :-P |
"ehehehehe,.."
Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 28 Nov 2003 06:29 AM |
| Should've been a Wizard, they're much better |
Eh? |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"...
Posted: 29 Nov 2003 02:20 AM |
I second that Zeln. And, for mister it is too hard being a mage, don't be a mage. Be a barbarian. They are good panzers. GO Fenarisk!
With a Passion, Sion.
Ps: BTW being in a party is hella fun! I was in a party once and had fun. It was insane. |
When in doubt, mumble. When in trouble, delegate. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 30 Nov 2003 06:32 PM |
Váei is a pure druid with ~grins~ a silk-sling, and runs around barefeet/minimally clothed (AC 12 ~winces~), a little bird by her side. In less than 4 hours she's half-way through level 3... it's alot friendlier than most other worlds where survival rates are uniformly low and|or remarkably tedious.
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~Váei
Genius is the perception of the obvious which nobody else sees. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 01 Dec 2003 06:08 PM |
| i play a wizard and with the help of Vaei, i am at 3600 xps, which means level 3 already. So although dying is hard, i really love the RP. |
"Cedant arma togae, concedat laurea linguae"
"Laat de wapens wijken voor de toga en de lauwerkrans voor de tong" |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 01 Dec 2003 07:11 PM |
| lol See our adventure post for strategies ^.~ |
~Váei
Genius is the perception of the obvious which nobody else sees. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 02 Dec 2003 08:45 AM |
"Fear me not death"
The Forlorn Hope shall always charge first, and die first! |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 06 Dec 2003 12:37 PM |
Vives IS insanely fun. BUT... (disclaimer) only when playing in GROUPS.
Vives is not at all catered for single player. And since when I am on most times, there is no one around, Vives is not fun for me. UNTIL I meet up with someone, whereby which it becomes immediately fun, and stays so thereafter.
The people in Vives do really roleplay, and roleplay well. I can't describe the fun I had last night playing with a certain gentleman who took his roleplaying to heart and made me feel emotion through the part that he played.
I can't wait to have more of that. And so yes, I go in and wait around in Midor like a lost puppy. Because if I leave Midor on my own, I die so often as to make it seem like I'm starting Vives all over again. The death EXP loss is so great it doesn't make sense to even play alone at ALL. One death can counteract days of adventuring and battling. And it makes no sense to travel with ANY gold on your person. Better to go buy a 25 quivers of arrows than walk around with ANY free gold that can be lifted from those wily Sisters when you die.
Of course, then you can't pick up any extra treasure you find because you're so loaded down with items to keep from losing your gold that you can't GAIN any gold, either.
Those are my rants. Other than that, I love playing Vives.
Later. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 06 Dec 2003 01:06 PM |
Thanks for the sentiment, StormKing. I really think that is the benefit and sometimes the drawback of Vives. We do have great RPers, and since this is a RP-focused server that is where the fun lies. So, yes, when there's no one around to RP with, of course it won't be as much fun. So, I'd love to see more people here all the time. Unfortunately, it's a double-edged sword, since if new people can't find others to RP with then they may be discouraged. But if people are discouraged, then it's hard to retain a sizable player base. Catch-22.
To be honest, I don't think Ara & Aria had ever intended Vives to be a 24/7 PW, and instead wanted it to be a weekly or bi-weekly world that a familiar group of players got together in to play NWN. But we had the capacity to have it up 24/7 and we're what we are at this point.
To encourage groups of people to gather, I'd love to see either 1) more players on consistently or 2) weekly playing groups. I don't know if #1 is possible since there are far fewer great RPers (such as the people that tend to gravitate towards Vives) it's much harder to have 20+ people online at all times. For #2, it's a matter of both players and DMs coordinating meeting times, or simply announcing that they'll be on at certain times. We are having a DM meeting today to try to satisfy the DM side of that equation. As for players, I don't know exactly how to manage that end. I'd love to hear suggestions.
-Q |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 06 Dec 2003 01:07 PM |
Yep. Death was always supposed to be harsh. If it dissuades folks from doing too much by their own, I say it is a good thing it is as it is now. Granted, it is annoying if you connect in the timezone with the least activity... that can only be cleared by attracting more players by offering more quality Rp.
Also I know Ara is always busy adding new areas for a variety of levels, to increase the options you have, even if you find yourself alone sometimes. So that it is possible to do some adventuring alone, yet it is harder than with a group. I can only say, playing cautious really helps. First testing week I died over a hundred times, that changed. If it is in character for you to do so, approach new areas carefully. Observation can save you more often than one might expect.
Oh and there is no shame in fleeing. That is a very valuable lesson!
Glad that you are having fun though.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 16 Jan 2004 03:06 PM |
I was so annoyed today. My lvl 7 bard still cant do anything on his own. Today I was again killed by the bandits on the hill outside of mineath caverns. It's just to annoying, I get up to the hill, see the bandits, then nothing happens for 5 seconds (allways a lag when you get there) next thing 3 bandit surround me and my hp went from 45 to 20. I obviously run, and I get to the campspot with 2 hp left and just enough time to drink a potion (I thought) when I suddenly leap back 20 meters, where I'm now standing still and drinking while being hit by a few arrows....
Sure I agree one should travel in groups. But I just rented a room at the Inn in Icy Vale (since I cant afford one in Midor, ever tried to make money with a bard with dex 10 and con 10?) and I do want to get there from time to time (since I put a lot of stuff in the chest). On top of that there is a very nice crafting system in Vives, and I like to use it. But I cant get to the places where the ingredients are! Sure I can take some when I get there in a party, but not to much since the char can't carry a lot. And the char doesn't want to beg for an escort all the time ofcourse. I tried to use the invisisble spell to get to places, but you all know this is pretty useless these days, the bandits still notice you..
I just feel pretty useless with this char right now, he cant do nothing, he's barely usefull to anyone in a party and the chances of him actually getting more lvl's are pretty dim. Ofcourse I understand this char shouldn't be able to take on Giants, to lout the treasures of an Orc tribe etc. but shouldn't he be able to just get beyond the Buckshire-PR-Midor-Paws line, shouldn't he just be able to get to his rented room in Icy Vale?
I just needed to get this out, thanks for having a flame section in the forums. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 16 Jan 2004 03:22 PM |
The thing with bards is they are a pure party class, plain and simple. In complete mechanics terms, their skills suck, their song sucks (Even at level 8 its the same as what a level 3 cleric can do for the entire party), their combat sucks, they have arcane spell failure, and low HP. So despite Vives trying to aid this a little and giving decent % of experience as well as XP for playing a bard song (More xp the more people are in your party), there's not much that can be done, its a NWN mechanics thing mostly that's not on your side.
Yes, the bandits will be tweaked a little, as they are a tad too numerous a tad tough (They lag due to the custom AI script of whether they stay and fight or decide to run), but Bards do have a few options if they have 15% spell failure or less, such as sleep, stun, fear, etc to sap the whole lot of them leaving at least enough time to kill the 1 or 2 that didn't save or to run into mineath. As well things like this help us tweak and balance things a bit more, so the input is still welcome.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 16 Jan 2004 03:26 PM |
| ....dont lose hope bud.....i play a monk..and believe me i never went to Icy Vale...until i was level 9...at least i wouldnt go alone....as far as combat..i could hardly hit anything and got hit a lot! Every class isdiferent as far was wen they can solo certain areas...and even then it aint wise to go alone. As far as the lag goes, from what i hear, HotU has caused alot of memory leaks...hopefully a patch will be coming soon. Lastly< as far as not helping in a party, being a monk, i cant tell you how much the bonus's of a bard playing their music helps me....Monk AB isnt too great..so every little bit helps...so before you torch your game...everyone goes through this at some point...justhang in there...and if you need to do some exploring...look for PAJWT..we gladly take you where few dare to go....!! |
ONWARD AND UPWARD! |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 16 Jan 2004 03:28 PM |
| All I can say is that I find Gullener very valuable role-playing wise, and I would be sorry to see you drop him for YetAnotherRoguePlusSomething. As I recall, Bard has always been a difficult class to play. As I recall also, Bard is basically a social role even in combat, ie inspiring the others or demoralizing the enemy so that the others can attack. Lately Loli has been providing the front guard for Rangers wishing to practice their archery on a variety of enemies. On the latest trip out she seldom had to use her sword. The bows cut the enemy down before it even reached her. I imagine that a bard singing in the back would fit right in. I know that at least once she thought of Gullener and wished he was there to sing for them at the battle. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Vives is not "fun"
Posted: 16 Jan 2004 03:43 PM |
Thank for reacting! The fact that you actually listen to such a rant is a sign for me that this really is a great world.
I know the bard pretty much sucks, but I really like to play it, to me it just seems like the most real class. I noticed the xp bonus, that is really great. Only I need to use my song quite often, also when I'm not in a party, so now I dont get really much xp from my song any more. And I only noticed the big increase in xp when in a party when I was about lvl 5 so I used it to often alone I guess (ofcourse that's just my ignorance, should have read the handbook better). I also refuse to constantly use my song when in a party even when there is no danger, when your just talking for instance.
Anyway I will continue to play the bard, and I'll continue to try and find a way to get to Icy Vale (I do like it there ;)). Again thanks for your reaction and advice. |
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