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Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 05:25 AM |
First off, thanks for fixing whatever trapping bug was affecting my Ranger. Whether you did something or not, he doesn't have a negative trying to set traps anymore. Go figure.
I've noticed a problem when I fight using traps. I don't gain any exp when I set the trap, and if its the trap that finishes off a baddie and not my blade, I don't get exp for the kill either. Is there a way you could tie the trap to the person who set it in order to award combat experience?
As far as I know I'm the only trapper in the game so I understand if this is low-priority, just curious if the powers that be would agree this is a good idea.
I think trapping really ties in well to my character's personnae but it really hurts his advancement when the traps do the killing.
Thanks
Mike |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 09:25 AM |
| Your not the only who traps, and yes its like this for a long time. Maybe its possible to fix that. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 12:47 PM |
| Alot of people dont think you should get xp unless its from fighting something, i guess some people just thing that getting xp for setting a trap or dissarming one is free xp. Go figure, but i would not count on getting xp for the trap skill, theres already enough people saying we shouldnt get xp from picking locks. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 01:40 PM |
Hmm, don't be fooled by a player's perspective here, phrasing a false situation.
The main reason why not all skills give you xp is NOT the fact that other people are whining it should not happen and that it is free xp and all that nonsense. Point is there are a lot of skills, so why would you grant xp to one and not to all the others?
Some skills were taken by the staff to create a satisfactory balance, since rogues get less for combat they are offered an extra xp source through lockpicking.
Like mages get xp for spellcasting. It makes sense since that is part of their concept. I am not sure but I think Rangers get more for combat to even things out a little.
Another difficulty is if you start attaching xp to a lot more skills, the balance question becomes ultimately complex. So adding too many xp sources might have the opposite effect. Furthermore Rp should become the richest xp source, other sources becoming of less importance as you progress.
So any xp source currently IG was decided on by the staff of vives trying to create a somewhat balanced whole. |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 01:57 PM |
ruldain my information is from just asking OTHER PLAYER what they thought about getting trap xp. The large majority of the responses i got were allong the line of they didnt want it because they thought it was free xp. Probably because they dont use traps themselves.
I've done the same thing with the animal empathy skill, most people are against it because they feel it is free xp. One again, probably because they dont us ethe skill themselves. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 02:13 PM |
Well it's not those players adding the piece of code required, is it? Or those players deciding on the guidelines to which everyone needs to stick.
As I said the reason why some skills get you xp is an entirely different one than: 'players being against it feeling it is free xp because they are not using it themselves'.
Players can state their opinion, it is still the ADMINS who decide who, what and WHY. And I don't think they are impressed with an argument: it is free xp.
That's rather shallow and not the reason why there is no xp for trapping. |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 02:39 PM |
| I think the issue here is not get XP for seting a trap...But get XP for killing the monster WITH a trap. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 05:06 PM |
| not getting xp for killing with a trap is one of the issues i have with traps. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 05:08 PM |
| Why is everybody so preoccupied with experience points on a roleplaying server? |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 06:31 PM |
| Bccause when all is said and done aint none of us rpin' shopkeepers. Rp dont mean ye dont wanna get better at what ye do. |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 07:24 PM |
A few issues.
First, somebody brought up animal empathy. Less than worthless skill. The animals you charm will not engage in combat unless they happen to naturally be aggro to whatever you happen to walk past, they will not come to your aid. What makes it worse is they split your exp and walk over traps so they are in fact a detriment.
2nd, who was whining? I asking a question about setting traps and how that fits into the big scheme of earning exp. Think about it, I half kill a monster, retreat past a trap I've set and the trap kills it, but I don't get any experience. Its a reasonable question to be asked. If the answer is "no, deal with it" then that is fine and I'll alter my tactics. Nobody is whining here.
3rd, gaining exp on a roleplay server. Duh. If you don't worry about it then go play the Sims. Actually, play all you want here because that's the great thing about this game, you can do what you want!!! Unless I'm breaking rules and causing somebody else a hard time, please don't tell me how _I'm_ supposed to play. (God we Americans like to tell other people what they're supposed to do and how they're supposed to act) FYI I would like to play an RDD. Since my particular RDD won't outwardly manifest his true nature until level 19, I need a few exps thankyouverymuch. Man that comment rubs me wrong. Its people like _that_ I was trying to AVOID coming to Vives. To think you hold some position of authority -- bleh.
This is an RP NWN server. You still want to advance your character, not be a hopeless rat-killing fool your entire time spent here. You can thee, thou, and "well met" all day long, but at the end of the day somebody has to go out and ensure the safety of Midor! Do you think the local shopkeeper will do that? |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 08:34 PM |
I think Ruldain was commenting on the flavor of the thread (and others) in it's entirity, and I think Beornagain answered the question adequately without insulting anyone.
Your traps did not measurably harm Loli this morning, but a string of traps like that in the pathway could have killed many weaker players. With Kusin dead, the path you trapped was the only way back to Midor/Paws from Port Royale. She doesn't know it was you that set them, but I do because you were one of the very few players on there at that time and you logged out just after she sprang them. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 08:41 PM |
My point here is that you folks are making a huge deal about miniscule amounts of XP. This is a roleplay server. As such, the focus is not on levelling. At least it shouldn't be. We as DMs award xp for roleplaying, this should be more than enough to offset any tiny perceived slight in the use of skills.
Frankly, at this point, I'd be perfectly happy to lose all the xp for skill use altogether. It's turning everybody into an XP Accountant, which is just barely above the rules lawyer on the evolutionary scale.
sheesh. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 08:57 PM |
Once again I belive the issue here is not the skill but get XP when killing with a trap. If the trao kills the mob then you get no XP I belive it doesnt make sence.
And skills giving XP is about RP, like getting XP with casting spells and so on, they are given in a balanced way so we are pleased with that. Viper was a bit harsh in there, and might have ofended someone but he has a point, and its our fault (players), DMs are tired of hearing about XP, but please try to see that the same way you get ofended with it Viper felt ofended, he was not whining. And please let us not be incorrect and start ofending others ok.
With Passion
~Ice
PS Sorry Sion for using your way of saying cya=) |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 08:57 PM |
| Well i dont want to interfert in the conversation, it just seem to be that we should not turn this post in a flamewar since it would not be constructive. About Animal Empathy not being good at all i dont agree with this assertion. The thing is I remember being a level 1 ranger and going in Sunix wood to charm a brown bear and then wander and kill some bandits near North Wind Inn. The fact is that actualy at level 1, i was not able to kill those, but with the help of the bear I could, so it does have an utility in my opinion. On the matter if it should give exp, i let's the dm judge that. But, i would like to had too that imo, if someone set a trap and kill a creature using a particular tactic involving the trap well, it should give the experice to the character, well if that character is a thief or multiclassed thief Imo. Finaly, about the topic of experience, i do believe that playing carefuly and doing certain "run" of area is the best way to bypass the few very hard level and well, after you reach level 4 earning become easier since you can finaly kill monsters like fire splitting beetles, Ants,harpy. but not the Night Hag dang she still own me HARD :) |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 09:18 PM |
I think Ruldain was commenting on the flavor of the thread (and others) in it's entirity, and I think Beornagain answered the question adequately without insulting anyone.
Your traps did not measurably harm Loli this morning, but a string of traps like that in the pathway could have killed many weaker players. With Kusin dead, the path you trapped was the only way back to Midor/Paws from Port Royale. She doesn't know it was you that set them, but I do because you were one of the very few players on there at that time and you logged out just after she sprang them.
dang, did I snag you with one? My apologies if so. I thought I picked them all up. I tend to trap a path of retreat when I'm exploring a new area on my own. Just in case I find something I can't handle I like a little something to at least slow them down a bit. I then _try_ to go back and pick them all up. As I recall we were in the same general area last night so I can't think of anybody else who would have left the traps. Fortunatley they're only average traps and don't do that much damage. Still, sorry if I tagged you with one or two. I will try to be more diligent in the future.
As for the only path from Midor/Paws to Port Royale, I had no idea :). I just kept venturing until I got too scared (I never did find any safe havens, I guess the rain forest was pretty low key but looked like a dead-end to me). The arrow hawk turned me around in one area (although I did fry a few blue wyrmlings), and I just got tired after doing the scopion chief quest. I was a bit bummed when there was one of those overly persistant traps on the treasure chest at the end of that long journey. All that killing and I find a trapped chest. Can't disarm the chest so I heal up and set it off on purpose. Hits me for a few pts of damage and resets itself. Bleh. Need more pts in disarm trap. :) |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 10 Jan 2004 09:26 PM |
| heh... the land route from Midor to Port Royale is not for the faint of heart, or the low of level, especially alone. If Kusin is gone, come into the irc channel and ask for a DM to fix it. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 11 Jan 2004 07:26 AM |
The DM's posting in this thread have been trying to clarify why currently traps do not give you xp. If that is wrong, then surely we can stop replying altogether. The only time the word 'whining' was used, was by me, in response to a post by Hades. Since he claimed the reason why there was no xp for setting traps or killing monsters with traps, is because of other players feeling it should not be in, because they see it as 'free xp '. Which is not the reason why most skills do NOT give you xp for using them. It is not a rule that some do give you xp, but an exception. And conveniently, the DM's happened to be there when these exceptions were decided upon, so we know first hand why they are there. And sometimes tend to believe it might be helpful or courteous towards the player base to share this info so they know what's going on.
Also nobody told you how to play your character. The only thing that was said, is vives wants to focus on handing out xp for Rp. Which is to become eventually the richest source of xp. An entirely neutral, general comment, referring in no way whatsoever to you as a specific person, for it is the primary policy applying to the mod as a whole.
Ice, in response to your comment that setting traps is Rp. Sure, sometimes it is. But the problem is, sometimes it is not. If you get xp for setting the trap as in using the game mechanics to set a trap and automatically get xp for it, the game does not check for 'Rp'. DM's can do that instead. Rp should get you more as well than the execution of a simple act, way someone plays it, adding talk or action emotes, that's the cool part about the mod.
And, it might not be that easy to make it so that when you kill a monster with a trap you get xp for it. Should ask Q if it is possible in the first place. If it takes a huge amount of work, for a small xp gain, sadly there are other priorities at the top of the coding list.
Oh and if someone posts, normally we see it as a post open for discussion or clarification, not as a formal request. Player requests are easiest to keep track off in a solidly written pm, send to Alosynth. If you feel strong for it and can make a strong case for it and if either Ara or Q can code/build it, there's the chance of it getting implemented (if they feel some class really needs an extra small xp source to support them).
And on a personal note, I entirely agree with Landru. We want to reward Rp; best to achieve that is get more DM's and judge the Rp and award that, and not have the game award someone for 'using a skill'. So, I'm also entirely for getting rid of all skill-driven xp gains, that or make it so every skill gives you some xp. Would be unfair otherwise. But that would require a lot of work, and for an Rp server, I don't think skills should take up that much time of the coder. |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 11 Jan 2004 07:54 AM |
Viper Pilot,
You got me with about six of them. I accept IG that as a perfectly valid attempt on the life of Loli, which has been made before and I am sure will be made again in the future. The area in question was the Scorched Earth/Kobai Desert transition. My reason for posting it was that it came across more as the act of an assassin than the act of a Ranger making his living trapping wils beasts. As you say, you can play your character any way you like, but I don't call assassins "trappers".
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Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 11 Jan 2004 08:56 AM |
*shrug*
If that's the case then you owe me for 6 new traps! What if I'd actually needed those traps to defend myself? From my perspective, ignorantly triggering my carefully laid defenses is a perfectly valid attempt on the life of Blaise...
FYI I start my adventures with the traps in a specific spot in my inventory. I certainly didn't have a hole missing 6 traps (2x2 squares each) I think we might be exaggerating just a bit.
I apologized once and won't do it again. If making yourself the persecuted victim works for you, err, I mean Loli, enjoy.
I ought to start a workshop about making friends and influencing people. I seem to be doing so well here... |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 11 Jan 2004 01:52 PM |
This is turning into a flame war. I'm locking it for a cool-down period. It will be unlocked later.
When it is unlocked, please restrict your comments to the matter at hand and leave the personal attacks out of it. Those things need to be worked out between two people, not for the whole player base to see.
Unlock: Please stay on topic. Another personal-oriented post will lock it for good. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 12 Jan 2004 05:53 AM |
I don't think we should get xp for setting traps. Average traps only cost 1gc each and so continually buying, setting, recovering and reselling traps effectively creates an entirely too tempting source of xp.
Secondly... with enough traps you can kill anything in the game. Unless you're fighting something that has a ranged attack this means that you can kill things many times more powerful than yourselves without risk. Considering how cheap traps are, you don't lose anything for "fighting" this way.
I think traps work well as they currently are. I often use traps to soften up powerful enemies before finishing them off in combat. The traps provide a considerable advantage but the fight is not without risk. |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 12 Jan 2004 06:08 AM |
| Pugs said it all I agree 100% with this point of view. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 13 Jan 2004 04:12 AM |
| If you know me im a man of simple answers. Killing a rat with a sword gets you XP, killing a rat with a trap should as well. They are both weapons and you have killed the monster havent you? Shouldnt outsmarting a monster be it by swordskills or by trapping make you get better at said act? They skill itself "meh" you advance in it through skill points so why give xp? Plain and simple however a trap and a sword are both tools to kill a monster and should equally give XP for either. To not do that is merely favoring one weapon over another and why do that on a RP server where you want to give charectors diversity? |
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Re: Trapping
Posted: 13 Jan 2004 04:52 AM |
I'd agree with Sylvan. Whilst I don't play a character who used traps with any great frequency, some people do.
And killing a monster with a trap -is-, ultimately, just as good as killing it with either bow or sword. You used your skills to defeat a foe. Your skills get better by doing it; hence, logically, you should get XP for using traps to kill foes.
However, if it is difficult to impliment or script, the argument changes. Is it really worth the time to add it in for a skill which not all that many people use? Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't.
But either way, getting XP for killing something with a trap does make sense to me, even if it isn't possible to actually impliment it.
-Barnas |
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