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Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 12:53 AM |
Well, it appears due to actions condemnable by the vives administration my account has been placed on suspention for an idefinate period of time as of yet. I would like to say altough if I am not allowed to return to vives I had alot of fun RPing with just about everyone and will miss you. I would also like that my actions and others which I may not have done be used as an example to other players so that they do not end up as me.
So thus far here is a list of general rules and conduct stated by one of the DMs. Keep in mind this isnt a list of things I am guilty of but just a general rule listing.
1) Stay in charector
2) Don't metagame (as in using ooc information to influence or advantage other charectors of yours)
3) Don't transfer items from one charector to another in any way shape or form
4) Don't abuse game mechanics
5) Don't force role play people (as in dictate the way the must role play)
6) Don't exploit bugs or scripted features
7) When confronted do not lie to administrators or DMs
In closing I wish everyone a happy time on the server and regret I can no longer share in it.
~ Sylvan Treeves
~ Turelyon Midoran
~ Calandra Tiara
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 01:11 AM |
I would also like that my actions and others which I may not have done be used as an example to other players so that they do not end up as me.
I believe this (the italicized part) demands a response from the collective administrator/DM panel to justify/clarify the decision. To this end, I'll repost a comment from the DM/Admin-panel in the suspension. The transcript follows. Please be noted that this information is available to the player.
9/5/2003 12:48:52 AM
Evidenced, documented violations:
(i) Deliberate item transfer from one character to another.
(ii) Logging out-in for purpose of refreshing spells
(iii) Logging out-in for purpose of avoiding death
(iv) Misc. borderline behaviour ('gemcraft', 'spell-stocking')
(v) Deliberate misdirection of DMs when confronted
The said-player was given a chance in hope that intentional abusal of game-mechanics would cease. However, behaviours as described above (but not limiting to) persists; since then, these prompted the collective DM/Admin panel in reconsidering their support, dropping his overall score from +5 to -6, immediately resulting in a suspension.
If you consider the above as ill-grounded, false, or misinterpretation, please submit your concerns in writing to the administrators (Quietus/Arathon/Aria), which will be redirected to the DM panel.
Until then, the decision is, and will remain final.
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 03:01 AM |
Cya Sylvan. It was fun RPing with you too. Hope things work out for you wherever you end up. Here if you sucessfully appeal, elsewhere if not.
Note: I'm not commenting on the reasons for Sylvan's suspension, I know nothing about it.
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Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 03:47 AM |
Later Sylvan, sorry things have to be that way, but if you did in fact do those things, and were warned, then I guess I can't say much in your defense, other than we all make mistakes. I hope that at some point you will be allowed to come back to us, and I hope you can/will stick around in the channel. It has been great RPing with you. Try to enjoy your time off, and as I said, hopefully this will not be permanent. See you around.
-Calmeir |
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 01:42 PM |
I know this isn't my place, but I'd like to put in my 2p. That's pence.
I have to say that I'm a bit annoyed to see Sylvan banned/suspended/whatever-the-term-is-around-here. I've enjoyed greatly RPing with him, and the prescence of people like him to RP with on the server is why I'm here. I personally consider any rules violation below hacking moot next to RP. If someone RPs well, I don't care what else they do, since it doesn't affect anyone.
Just for the record, I think that Sylvan is one of the best people I've ever RPed with. The first night I was on the server, I was just wandering about. Impressed by the building, but not particuly impressed by the RP on the world (Wrong time to be on, 5pm GMT, methinks, but that's moot to the story). Then I got a tiny bit involved with the Dreamless quest after an encounter with Alenuska and Calandra. (Probably not 5pm GMT by then....). But meh. The RP was excelent, and is why I'm on the server now. But meh, I don't do anything.
I suppose my comment is moot also, but hey. Just putting my opinion in.
Sad to see ya go Sylvan. Later,
Barnas
(This post is entirely IMHO, whilst representing a disagreement with the administration of the server, does not represent any hard feelings towards them or lack of respect for the effort that they put into vives so that we enjoy it). |
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 02:48 PM |
While I appreciate people such as Calmeir and Barnas giving their opinions, their add-ons to the staff stating it is only opinion, getting all defensive about not disagreeing with the decisions of the admin staff here or having hard feelings (while refreshing) is uneeded :-P
The wonderful thing about Vives is that the player's may have an opinion; Any opinion, and we are not ones to block it out or silence it unless it is deemed greatly offensive (of which I have seen none). And above even that, all opinions are appreciated and considered within this open forum.
So, your opinions are appreciated, and as has been stated, as of now Sylvan is merely suspended until we can all get together (very soon) and decide upon this. Until then, know the admins really have no hard feelings towards anyone, we're growing just as the world is.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 03:17 PM |
I'm glad to see that the players feel they have the freedom to comment openly, even if their opinion does not agree with the opinion of the staff. Vives is intended to be that way, and all opinions are encouraged, even unpopular ones.
I understand that players that one regularly interacts with being suspended or banned can be an upsetting experience... BUT:
The things one knows about a particular player are only those things that one sees. Many things go on at many different times, and one player has no knowledge of all of them, with the exception of their own activities.
Good RP, no matter how good, is not and will never be a license for rule-breaking and inappropriate behavior. Vives has what I believe to be a very lenient 3 step discipline system, consisting of warning, suspension, and finally ban. We are reasonable people, and we afford every opportunity for corrective behavior. If the behavior at issue is not corrected, the next level is reached.
As I said, we will always welcome feedback, even if it is negative feedback. I'd only ask that one consider whether or not they know the full story before formulating an opinion. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 03:25 PM |
Since this is just phase two of the punishment, I don't see why everyone is acting like we've seen the last of Calandra. Rather than farewell, we could all just say "see ya later." Heck, Sylvan will probably be back before I get another chance to log in to the game. It ain't no thang. Just take yer medicine.
My experience with Calandra has been that she is a pretty well played character, but a an old pair of boots could appear to be a good roleplayer when Alenuska is around. Now that's a roleplayer!
Anyhoo, just my humble opinion. |
Need itam! |
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 05:16 PM |
I have to say that I'm a bit annoyed to see Sylvan banned/suspended/whatever-the-term-is-around-here. I've enjoyed greatly RPing with him, and the prescence of people like him to RP with on the server is why I'm here.
As do I, especially since Sylvan does RP well.
I personally consider any rules violation below hacking moot next to RP. If someone RPs well, I don't care what else they do, since it doesn't affect anyone.
As Merum stated, good RPing is neither an excuse nor does it obviate the rules.
(This post is entirely IMHO, whilst representing a disagreement with the administration of the server, does not represent any hard feelings towards them or lack of respect for the effort that they put into vives so that we enjoy it).
As Fen stated you've nothing to worry about. Respectful opinions are very welcome (though they may not always be consonant with those of the staff :)).
-Q
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 05:42 PM |
As Merum stated, good RPing is neither an excuse nor does it obviate the rules.
I think that's why I'm not a server admin :P
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Re: Farewell
Posted: 05 Sep 2003 05:46 PM |
Since this is just phase two of the punishment, I don't see why everyone is acting like we've seen the last of Calandra. Rather than farewell, we could all just say "see ya later." Heck, Sylvan will probably be back before I get another chance to log in to the game. It ain't no thang. Just take yer medicine.
Well, just to clairify how the system works:
The registration system allows players to submit application to play on Vives. All staff members (DMs & Admins, henceforward called 'DMs' for simplicity) get a chance to vote and give comments on that player's application. A majority of DMs must vote 'approve' for that player to be accepted. As I see it, an 'approve' vote says that the DM is willing to fight for the right of the player to be a part of the server.
After acceptence, players must maintain a certain number of 'approve' votes from DMs to stay in Vives. DMs can change their vote on the player, usually based upon how they see the player IG. Again, the idea is that a DM may loose faith in a player and change their vote indicating that they are no longer willing to support that player's right to play in Vives. If enough votes change, then it's possible the player no longer has the minimum number of 'approve' votes, thus rendering their Vives account suspended. Once suspended, the player may speak to an admin (me, Aria or Ara) concerning the issue, but that's no guarentee the suspension will be lifted. The player still needs the minimum 'approve' votes for the account to be reinstated.
The thinking behind the system is this: All the staff members have a say in who they think should and should not be allowed to player in Vives. The DMs (not Admins) are the ones that are IG and interact with the players the most, so they need this important feedback mechanism. At the same time, this does not give any one DM all the control. Given how the system works, for a player to stay there needs to be a reasonable consensus from the DMs. Same goes for deciding that a player is not longer allowed to stay; a reasonable consensus must be made before the player becomes suspended. I think it's important that the DMs and admins share this responsibility.
Also, as a side note, this whole process is automated since the admins aren't always around to deal with these issues.
Anyway, I just wanted fill everyone in on how the whole process works.
-Q
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Re: Aria the Butcher
Posted: 06 Sep 2003 12:15 AM |
If that is your take on it, so be it.
To be honest, casting the Admin-mask aside, as a human myself I'm sick of Sylvan repeatedly suggesting, one form or another, to everybody else in IRC that it was not his responsibility - placing the claims repeatedly on "DMs saying no forced RP", and things that he 'may or may not know', 'may or may not do' - when he dang well knows what he did.
As far as I am concerned, I had a choice to keep quiet, let everybody else believe what they hearsay from his version of info, worry about whether something they do not know is going to get them into trouble (as all things Sylvan has done was apparent things that he 'may or may not know', 'may or may not do'), casting doubt on the DM/Admin-panel, while Sylvan and myself are both holiest, most innocent angels on earth.
My other option was to do what I did. It was not the nicest thing to do, and I knew it, but I'm sick of having to keep someone else's secrets for them, esp. when everything they're doing is taunting me to do it. If you thought I'm an angel who is neutral and happy and tender and willing to take all the blames of everything, I'm sorry to disappoint you. I'm all too human, and there's so much I'm willing to take. If you hate me for my emotions, you have probably loved me for the wrong reasons.
For future references: in my books, intentionally untrue/half-truths/more-than-truths are no-nos that ticks me off really badly. Especially ones that shifts blames onto me, or onto people/things I care about. And if you're second-guessing me to be mute just to be an angel, too bad, because I speak my mind and emotions, and I have every intention to do so.
--
Lastly I want to thank Rom for speaking his mind, honestly, loud, and clear. I believe in professing openly what one is thinking - if it's being thought, it deserves to be spoken. Not semi-truths, half-truths, or more-than-truths.
So - Thank you.
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Honesty and Transparency
Posted: 06 Sep 2003 03:15 AM |
To achieve a strong and reliable Roleplaying Player Base, I do not see why we would not try to be as open and honest about matters such as players not abiding to the rules. These rules are not that many and first and foremost were created to ascertain everyone can enjoy themselves without having to fear some not so nice person comes along to ruin it all. This includes unbalancing the world in a variety of ways, including the harvesting and hoarding of items, etc. etc.
I know quite a few other mods where people get banned, then sitebanned, and are never allowed to tell their story. Neither will the staff comment on it. This reminds me of the days of Stalin, who murdered a lot of innocent folk, justifying this only through his paranoia. Needless to say, this was not a nice era in human history.
This policy applied to MODs kinda ruins the whole idea of collectiveness and trying to have fun altogether. It breeds a lot of false rumor, guessing and a great amount of misconceptions and miscommunication.
So overall, I do believe the staff one way or the other should have the liberty to explain the reasons behind a suspension.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Honesty and Transparency
Posted: 06 Sep 2003 08:22 AM |
My 2 cents worth.
I see nothing wrong with what Aria has done here, and I think it is worth remembering that Aria did not initiate this public discussion.
I also think it is worth knowing that the DMs _can_ detect and _will_ punish transgressions that might otherwise seem very tempting in an apparently empty and unguarded situation.
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Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Honesty and Transparency
Posted: 06 Sep 2003 02:37 PM |
Uhm, no offense.
But reread your own posts, then read what you say about Aria. Then perhaps try to relate if you are not exactly doing, what you are more or less seem to dislike Aria for in the matter concerning Sylvan.
I still say everyone has a right to know. By showing disrespect for a mod and fellow players, I dont see why you must be protected from the masses. Reading Aria's post I can not conclude otherwise, then feeling informed of what happened exactly. As it states facts. That she is annoyed by his behavior could be seen as a logical consequence, not influencing the mentioned facts, since those facts have been verified by the WHOLE staff.
To conclude, Q explained the process of suspension. Sylvan will be given a fair chance to convince the staff to change their opinion. Unless someone mistrusts the entire staff and do not believe they are capable of being perfectly honest about a MOD they helped to build, design, code and play on themselves.
Cheers,
Ruldain |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Honesty and Transparency
Posted: 06 Sep 2003 03:07 PM |
I will take this one step further. Rom, you seem to be painting Sylvan's suspension in the light of some personal vendetta by Aria against him. Truth be told, Sylvan was suspended LONG before Aria came into the picture. In fact, Aria was the lone voice in Sylvan's behalf, in effect becoming his defense attorney. She demanded hard proof of all the charges, before she made her decisions. Were it not for her, I can tell you his punishment would likely have lasted much longer than it's going to.
Were you not one of the folks in irc clamoring for the knowledge of what the trangressions were? I seem to remember you being there, saying that the players had a right to know why this action was taken.
Sylvan's actions in irc and in the forums following the suspension were at best, quetionable. It is he who forced the documentation of his infractions, and nobody else. Had he accepted his punishment quietly, without attempting to turn the opinion of the players against the staff under the banner of "injustice", the entire situation could have ended right there. By posting the first shot in this debate, Sylvan himself attempted to call question on the things he has done, when in fact the list of guidelines he posted under the banner of "may or may not have done" was very close to a complete list of the things he DID do.
In summation, Aria is likely the most fair and impartial person we have on the staff, and frankly, I find your personal attacks against her offensive. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine, so there it is. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Honesty and Transparency
Posted: 06 Sep 2003 03:53 PM |
For one the reasons I posted a list of things I may have done or not was because at the time I did not have the list. I wasnt trying to turn anyone against anyone if you read my post I merely posted it to use myself as an example sense I was the first one to get punished like this. To say I did it merely to turn players against DMs is putting words in my mouth and that -was not- my intention in posting this. I merely wanted to make it known that I was suspended and list behaviour that will cause other players to end up suspended also.
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Think before you speak man
Posted: 06 Sep 2003 03:55 PM |
| I've avoided posting on this thread but certain things I have to comment on. Landru I was one of the people clamoring to know what happened and once I saw it I had no more doubts as to the actions of the dms. Rom Sylvan agreed to have his charges posted so before you go and hang her out to dry why dont you gather all the facts first your a scientists that should be standard practice. As for whats gonna happen to Sylvan lets let the dms and admin staff do their job and handle it. |
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Re: ~Edited~
Posted: 08 Sep 2003 02:08 PM |
| If Sylvan really did all that. Well DMs just did their jobs. I have some complains about unfair punishment and this is very fair I must say. I like Sylvan met him in other servers aswell he RPs very nice but he is a player like others he has to respect rules. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: ~Edited~
Posted: 08 Sep 2003 09:22 PM |
| I believe there is no more new insights to be added to the thread, and am thus locking it to save ourselves on hard feelings. Let me know in PM if you believe there is a need for this to go on. |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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