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Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 08:07 AM |
Um... yeah...
One of the things which has been floating about in the back of my mind waiting for me to post on it is the topic of IC tells, Pigeons, magical messages ETC.
Why is this, you might ask?
Well, first would be the requests which Fri'el gets for res. Second would be the whole CNR type thing, trying to organise with someone who's 10 minutes run away. They had pigeons ETC in the 12th century and later, so I've seen it done that they can be RPed.
As per the rules on Soantii, I don't consider a carrier pigeon message OOC- though I'd like a Vives take on this. Is it OOC to send a carrier pigeon to someone? Is that allowed? Examples: "Swords are done, meet me in Midor", "I'm in the Midor mountains, things look bad, HELP!". So.. yeah.. on Vives, are such things allowed or no?
Second, I've seen people on other servers who have highish lvl spellcasters sending "Psycic messages" to others... OOC or no?
Basicly... are these things allowed on Vives? I myself don't tend to use them even when they are, prefering to wander about and try to find the person and have a chat, but I know that others do use them. So yeah... thanks for any answer...
-Barnas
(Hoping that made some sense) |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 08:13 AM |
Good question, some people don't like the "cheese" factor. Psychic powers especially can run down a whole hoarde of issues, the fact that they aren't psychic for one thing, then there's reading other's mind (or descriptions) and getting IC facts off it.
Pigeons and messengers I'd say were okay, Mindspeak - well there are spells for that sort of thing and as for talking to people who are just off screan, it should be okay... |
Eh? |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 08:33 AM |
Well, for the crafting thing, I use Tells to get reminders from my partners like "did you need some of the white ones also this time or only the spotted ones?" And yes, that's kind of like calling home on your cellular from the grocery store, to ask your kid to go check the refrigerator and see how much milk is left. Some might say it's metagaming to make up for lack of planning. I see it as a way to make up for not having any easy way to make notes or to see what the person has spread out on the working surface (because it's all in their backpack or inside a crafting container).
Now, since I am partied with my crafting partner(s), they can see if I go down and they can see exactly where. Since I have told them by normal IG means before I left what the purpose of my trip is and where I am going, it is reasonable for them to worry about me after some time has passed without my return. They know where I was headed, and they can mount a search party to look in pretty much the correct place(s).
For the people sending Fri'el magic messages telling her that they are dead in Maldovia when she had no idea that they were headed that way, or even that they were out of bed and walking around, I can't come up with any good explanation. If they are dead in Whipsnade Pass, it is very believable that she might be going home for some reason and trip over the body, and a Tell just facilitates it happening within a decent interval of gaming time. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 08:41 AM |
I just think tells from DEAD peoples aren't uh a good thing. Even if, to take Fri'el as an example, Fri'el knew I was going to Maldovia.. If your dead your dead.. stay lying dead and wait for Fri'el tripping over your body by accident or press respawn..
The Pigeon idea is pretty nice if you ask me, but maybe we can think of soemthing to make it a bit more realistic, cause pigeons take a certain time to fly to someone, and it would take some time to respond with another pigeon... Maybe some sort of PigeonTell option could be made? or something...
Sug, |
"ehehehehe,.."
Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 08:46 AM |
Concerning the dying matter:
If you party up you need no 'tell' to warn the others that you just died. Either they are there with you (most likely if you party up), or in the case as slink said: when the others know where one of them is going and isn't returning after a while, they set up a search party. Again, no 'telling' is necessary.
But when you're dead alone, then that's that. You can hope that someone will come by and rescue you, if not well that's just tough luck. Respawn (actually roleplaying that someone did find you and brought you to the infirmary) and don't complain about the loss in xp. After all going out all alone is hazardous, both in game as in the real world. In my opinion 'telling' someone you need help when you are dying or dead is bad play (and please don't tell me that in the second it takes you to fall down you scribble down a note and send it away with a bird, that's preposterous). In the example above, if you're in Maldovia, don't expect anyone soon to come and rescue you, again unless someone knows beforehand where you're going.
In short: dead or dying: no telling to other people that you are exactly that and where you are.
And if I'm not mistaken this has already been posted once before. |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 09:15 AM |
Just a short reponse, as no doubt pretty soon the staff's view on this will become clear.
When dying or badly wounded, I do trust no one has the time to quickly send off a pigeon. And neither would people carry pigeons around all day. So I'd say using pigeons to attract attention to yourself since you feel you are not surviving something, BAD BAD FORM. And you can rest assured no DM is going to approve this. It is as others said, if you want to limit the risk of dying, act like it. People who go alone to dangerous places and die, tough luck. Vives is meant to motivate folk to interact and help each other get through things and not to start helping people when it is too late.
So indeed vives is the more dangerous for people who have no IC friends. Partying up is still your best way to protect yourself against respawns. Even then, if you are in a party and do NOT RP telling ANYONE where you are going and then dying in that place, after which your party members suddenly get this bright vision of you lying dead in a place they were not informed of. That is also not allowed. People need to have been informed ICly.
Again going places with parties works best. Someone escaping can go alert a person capable to resurrect, be they players or even NPC's if a DM is about and feels it is logical to do so. So yeah, no telling for raises. Anyone who is asked for a raise in this way repeatedly should report it to the DM's. Then it can be properly dealt with. I assure you you do not want us to find out for you, you are pestering certain clerics for a raise through tell each time you die, same goes for clerics responding to this.
Then the mental link nonsense. This is only an excuse for player to abuse the /tell. If we allow this suddenly everyone is mentally gifted. So no. If you are dead, you are dead, you can not send a mental message or whatever. Sounds harsh perhaps, well that is precisely what the staff intented for death in vives.
As for the pigeons, they might serve to carry general messages, I don't know. We might limit that to people being inside a city where they could find these pigeons. Though I rather see something reflect this sending of a message, since there is no way to ascertain otherwise it even reaches the intented person. Also this can only be used if you really know where someone is, ICly.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 09:19 AM |
Dear Fri'el...
Am currently dying in Maldovia. Weather has been nice, but is overshadowed by intestines spilling out over ground. Too messy for tastes. Fear death might be imminent. Help, maybe?
Signed, <insert name nere>. |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 09:32 AM |
Incidentally...
We DO have an option ingame for people to write messages on scrolls. So it should be used. If you want to deliver a message, use the things that ARE ingame. Other players!
I'd prefer that over invisible pigeons since this way a message will always reaches its target, while the skies of vives are full of birds of prey who enjoy a good pigeon now and then. So ask other players to deliver messages for you. This way it adds to the roleplay. People could even start playing messengers.
Also messages can be intercepted this way by other PC's. Creates a whole lot of new possibilities. Alternatively there might be a code option to simulate pigeons with a calculated chance of the pigeon not reaching the target and thus dropping the message somewhere halfway.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 09:35 AM |
| Have the scrolls been repaired since the CNR upgrade? I reported it through the Bug Reporter, that they no longer had a conversational menu attached, some days ago. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 10:28 AM |
Tells typically are OOC. There really is no aspect of Vives or of the setting to warrant tells being a viable IC solution to problems. And no, whispering is not the same, whispering still mutters something which others may/should have a chance of hearing with a high listen check, not ESP.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 10:57 AM |
| Isn't Whisper mode just a function of physical proximity, in NWN? Loli can hear whispering, and she has lousy Spot/Hide/Listen. Also, if you whisper directly into someone else's ear, no one should be able to hear you unless they have their ear pressed right up against the other person's ear. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 11:03 AM |
It is and hence sometime I've been using tells to actually whisper to someone who's standing next to me. The others who are also close would hear what is being said while whispering, with a tell this is not so.
Correct me if this is wrong, but I don't see any abuse in this. |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 11:39 AM |
Tells aren't whispers, the whisper command under the chat options is a whisper. A tell has no chance of someone picking up what you said, while a whisper does. At this point in time, no, I don't see any real abuse, I'm just stating this for future reference when more guilds/factions that could come up with a larger player base wish for certain information to stay secret.
*EDIT* The way I'm reading this I'm coming off as an a$$ in my opinion, so I'll say it like this I suppose; Personally I think tells are the one haven for good OOC things apart from the IG Roleplay and actions going on. I'm perfectly alright with a wide range of things you do in tells (Kind of like saying something off to the side about work during a PnP Campaign), just as long as it doesn't have any profound impact within the game itself (Such as asking for rezzes, asking someone something they'd have to be next to you in order to inform you of, etc). Just common sense stuff really.
And I don't like pidgeons :P.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 12:19 PM |
I myself use tells for a few things.
1) I enjoy wise-cracking about certain situations. (It's bad form, I know, and I'm on the 12 step plan :P)
2) One of my characters is a ventriloquist, he'll use tells to whisper to whomever if the person is in my moniter
3) Hmmm... I know there was something else... *Shrugs shoulders* I'll figure it out later |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 12:39 PM |
ok.. my opinion:
tells = completely ooc.. that's why i dont even bother writing OOC or (()) there.. the same goes for party talks.. unlese you shouted something to the party (and you were almost at 'hearing distance' of talking) then you just type there *shouts: YAHOO!*
magical/mental notes = BS, nonsense, metagame.
pigeons = I once used to use them.. then thougt about it and stopped..
the pigeons dont know where the other person is .. the pigeons dont always reach their destination...
also.. you cant tell a pigeon "goto Midor" ... the main idea is that you leave the pigeon mate, at the pigeon place thingy.. then they come back ..
I think that if we could have a pigeons place thingys (i dont really remember the name.. =p) that will be like post office -
there will be a place where you can take a pigeon (one at a time.. cant take more) that will cost x amount of gold per y time (you pay for y amount of time.. and she will get back after that amount of time) you will be able to send the pigeon on her way, she will come to the place you rent her from (there will be a post office at PR.. Midor.. maybe Paws/buckshire or brandibuck as well) and then you can use it.. like the bug reporter.. you 'say your msg' .. it is being written, and there is a 10% it wont arrive.. cuz the pigeon died on the way.. 10% it didnt arrive cuz the pigeon got to the wrong place.. and 10% that it didnt arrive cuz the note wasnt readable/fell or something. 70% that the pigeon will arrive..
there must be a way to calculate distance (in areas.. or something) - then from each place, you will be able to send the note.. and it will have 70% to get to the post office after x amount of time depending on the palce you are at -
this means : no one able to write after death, no one able to write while dying or fighting - the pigeon will fly away if the sender is being attacked or attack someone..
and then ppl can check the post office every now and then to see if they got msgs..
maybe this is a bit complicated and might not work.. but i think it can be a neat feature ^^
also.. anyone who gets 'mental notes' or such.. IMO even get pigeons.. plz report that..
cuz it will be much faster way to find the ppl who do it.. thus they will be punished..
IMO these things are considered meta gaming..
and yes.. also sending tells cuz you dont know which kind of crafted item the other guy wanted.. this is extremely non realistic.. and again.. ooc - thus i consider it as metagaming.. and dont want -anyone- to do such things..
-but- sending a tell cuz you whisper from a very close distance.. IMO is allright.. IC and IG.. i dont see any problem with that.. as long as both chars stand next to each other..
and if i am not wrong whisper doesnt have check.. it just have a certain range you can here from... but maybe i'm wrong.
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 12:42 PM |
As an added note against the pidgeon idea.. Pidgeons go from location to location, not person to person. For example, you could have in Midor a pidgeon roost that has a varity of different pidgeons that home to different locations. Some might go to Port Royal, some to Ferien, some to Buckshire etc. You cant whisper in the pidgeons ear and tell them to go find so and so.
slink.. the scrolls in CNR Baking/Brewing are for the Scribing tradeskill that is not implemented. We can bug Q to maybe switch the tag in the receipe to make one of Aria's writable scolls *looks at Q*
There are also special Bulliten Board parchments, though I dont know how they work *looks at Aria*
IMO, tells are purely OOC and should be treated as such. However, while slinks example of the mushrooms, in the strictest sense would be considered metagaming, something like that I would not consider bad play. Lets face it, walking back to find your friend, then back to the mushroom patch because you, the player, forgot what you were supposed to get is not time well spent. I really cant see any good rationalization for using tells as pure IC messages. If you must talk with someone, use your Player Stone to arrange to 'accidently bump into them'. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 12:54 PM |
well.. if you the player forgot.. it is one thing..
you can write it down.. you got a journal for things like that..
tho i still see it as OOC it is less worse then the over option - that the char forgot it and then you send a tell.. as the char 'asks' for that info...
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 01:24 PM |
Ah! Now I remember what that third thing was!
3) Whenever I feel lonely and want to talk to someone, I use tells. (As OOC talk, like "G'morning Barnas" or "Yah, my cat's on my wrist so my movement is a bit staggared")
Is that allowed? |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 01:59 PM |
Right. Upshot of this post appears to be, then..
Do NOT send my PC Pigeons, Tells, or anything of that sort asking for a res. Players who may or may not do this, you know who you may or may not be :P |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 02:36 PM |
Xie is going to free his hawk....
didnt knew this wasnt possible. But then we come to the question again if we have a friend with us why cant he carry our body to the city? If he can course. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 02:52 PM |
The only time my Tells are IC is when, for instance, Quillian and Loli are standing right next to each other and whispering into each other's ears. I suppose we can go to someone's house instead if we have to, but the chat option for Whisper can be heard two arms-length's away, for heaven's sake. It's hardly even a low voice let alone a true whisper.
Oh, and also, even if Quillian and Loli can find an isolated but unsecured location in which to hold a private conversation, someone nosy can use the Player Stone to home unerringly on them and burst in on it. This has happened many times with certain individuals "party-crashing" in the RPG sense of the word party.
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Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 03:07 PM |
Slink.. as I said.. i dont find any problems with such tells.. cuz whisper -can- get annoying cuz of that =p
but i dont think it should be done if you dont remmember what mushroom to pick..
and Ice..
I am not saying they cant RP they carry you to town..
this is much better then letting you respawn and just *poof* you are at Midor..
I am saying that even if they carried you.. this doesnt mean you will get raised by the local priest..
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 05:54 PM |
but i dont think it should be done if you dont remmember what mushroom to pick..
Obviously this is a point even DM's disagree on. Yes technically using tells in such a maner is verging on metagaming, but then, metagaming isn't explicitly black and white. I would rather see people together and Rp'ing than having to run back and forth from the mushroom patch because they forgot the colour. That running back and forth is basically a waste of the 10-15 minutes spent doing so that could be better put to use in RP once you've procured the proper resource.
Metagaming has not been something I've seen too much of here, and I expect you all have the proper common sense to know what is and isn't proper when it comes to using tells. But, except for the 'whispering' there is no reason for them to be considered in character. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 06:15 PM |
Well Dens, when I was 15 years old I probably felt the same disdain for poor memory, but I'm 50 now and I don't always remember whether someone said they needed only the white or also the spotted. I could pick them all just in case, would that make you happier? It is what I do at the grocery when I cannot remember. :P
Today Quillian told Loli IC in Buckshire that Dias wanted more bear pelts. slink assumed that meant Grizzly and Brown so Loli went to Sunix Woods. pheonixoverlord spoke to slink via Tell and said he had meant Polar Bears, but we played it out the way it was because Quillian had not been specific. I think it is possible to use Tells as a memory crutch without using it as telepathy. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Carrier Pigeons
Posted: 20 Nov 2003 06:38 PM |
| Well, luckily -I'm- still 15, with perfect memory and perfect behaviour and perfect perfection! So... the bird thingy... Yay or nay as messengers? Not everyone has houses. And not everyone is on at the same times. |
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