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IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 01:40 PM |
It has come to attention to us DM's and admins that players are transfering items from older characters to their newer ones......
This is Metagaming and more....... and something that makes no RP sense whatsoever, so please please don't do this :D
Next instance we see it will be a ban...... To those who have been doing it please look at comments left by DM's on your registration. You know who you are. Those caught will be voted upon and possibly be banned as of now, this is at the discretion of the voting system and other DM's.
We have a system that logs all player logins, the character and time in game etc..... and we can easily cross reference this to another system which shows ALL items (above a certain level) that are transfered/picked up (from ground or otherwise)/traded etc etc...... Believe us, it's pretty darned easy to see :P
Next time this happens it's a ban........ simple really :D
(I hate writing crap like this and threatening folks, but as long as we have morons doing this I will have no option. It's a bloody game, one that I enjoy, but this sort of stuff simply is a pain in the backside, hence the harshness and me writing this crappy post when 99% of folks here are all mature adults here to have fun. The more time we have to deal with this crap the less time I/We can spend in the toolset or in game/coding/whatever..... the people's actions doing this are PENALISING the others who play maturely and properly.)
Cheers
Arathon, one pissed off Penguin! |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 02:11 PM |
Plus a lot of older items are nowhere near as decent as new ones that can be found in some of the old and new areas as well. So in essence these folks are not only metagaming, but also somewhat screwing themselves out of the improvements within the server on the item/class options level we provide .
~Fenarisk |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 02:13 PM |
Yes, it makes me very unhappy to have to scold someone about their behavior. I believe we try very hard to be fair and patient with players that want to play here. But there is a point where I must realize that the trust has been broken. Repeated metagaming after having been warned is appaling to me. When this has happened players have been penalized, and it saddens me. I, personally, haven't banned anyone though. It's hard for me to change my vote in the registration system to actively deny the player, because I want to give players a chance. I want them to get better as players. I want them to RP in Vives and enjoy it. And I also want them to lose those bad habits of metagaming they've gotten elsewhere. I think that's why people come to Vives, because we're not supposed to be focused on being XP accountants or what uber items we've acquired. This is a serious RP server.
-Q |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 03:28 PM |
*Is the 1% Immature Non-Adult*
"Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional" Well, one way or another, I think everyone that plays in Vives has learned quite a bit. Even I myself learn many things every day.
One rule at a time, the player base will mature, and trust will be earned. I hope :P. I just want to ask this (because I learned about some of these rules the hard way myself) is anyone in here completely new to Neverwinter Nights? If so, I'm sure many a player will outline some basic rules. (Granted, DMs, I'm sure you would just say "Read the rules in Vives", but I don't think many do. I, for one, when I play a game, just jump in, play, and learn from my mistakes)
Well, that's all I have to say. |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 03:29 PM |
| This is what I call "muling". |
I'm The Cult of Personality. |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 03:35 PM |
I havn't done this- I'd like to make it clear at the start... but I only havn't done it because I don't know if it's allowed or not...
If one of your PCs sells an item which they cannot use, but another of your characters would want that item, can the second PC buy it? Or is that unfair owing to the fact that no other PC gets a chance to buy it like would happen if a not yours PC just sold it to a vendor and then you looked about 5 hours later?
I know that sounds stupid, and probably doesn't make much sense either But it' something I've been meaning to ask for a while, and this was much chance.. so :P |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 03:41 PM |
Seems like it would be -slightly- different if you sold the item to a vendor then bought it with your second PC.
But that's just me. |
I'm The Cult of Personality. |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 03:54 PM |
Some time back, my younger character made Miner's Bags and sold them in both Paws and Brandibuck. She told several people she was doing it, and she sold ten in total. My older character then travelled to Brandibuck and bought four of those bags. Over a period of a day or two all of the bags were bought, then some more were sold which were all bought by characters of other players. Eventually my older character learned to make Miner's Bags, and she gave away a number of them for free to anyone she saw in need of one. I figure no violence was done to the system by this, especially since there really was no way to tell Gnora's Mining Bags from those of anyone else's manufacture. Also, they sold for a whopping 3 GP, down to 1 GP on the third bag sold.
Loli was once served a pie by Tom Windwhisper which I have reason to believe was baked by Gnora. :D |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 04:13 PM |
Selling things to a merchant as far as I am concerned at this moment is fine, if a second character were to go in and buy it........ however, as we also have the means to check (from the database thanks to Q :P) GP a character has and the means by which he/she acquired it then this is not a license to go and give xp to another of your chars to then buy said "stuff".
What I was originally referring to was people dropping all their items in a quiet place on the ground, then starting a new character, and proceeding to waltz to said location and then pick everything up off the ground. So a level 1 would then have a Sword of flaming thisthatortheother.
To me this is just idiotic....... as it's just blatant "cheating". I almost have the attitude that we should just leave them be and never bother with DM Quests etc for them as they are just exploiting loopholes (of which there will also be some, we're only human after all :P). Now, it is only a game, and my senses tell me to just "ignore" it........ but then we have the issue of balance and everything else to consider.......
I HATE doing this (threatening bans etc) and have resisted this up till now, preferring to give everyone a shot at the game and Vives, but this has really got my back up ;)
Q's awesome database etc picks this up for us now, but the simple fact is that dealing with said morons doing this, takes up mine, Aria's, Q's and other Dm's time, and thus means we can't progress as quickly as we would like to as in DM events/interaction, new features, scripting, toolset work, new areas/monsters/Quests etc etc etc..... which I'm sure (well hopefully hehe) the vast majority of cool people we have playing here would enjoy more of.
So in short......... Slink et al..... what you mentioned is fine :D The other instances that are taking place are not.
Cheers
Ara |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 05:09 PM |
The answer to muling and item transfer from a higher level character to another of a lower level to the same player login is simple:
The Answer
~Fenarisk |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 05:24 PM |
| Well.... doesn't that look like a tasty meal |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 07:39 PM |
I will NEVER condone this, as this is supposed to be an RP server, and doing this in no way resembles any sort of RP, but that being said, i CAN understand why it's done or perhaps thought to be okay.
Vives is a persistent world, so like any persistent world it follows some rules like that of an MMORPG. Things are persistent. Monsters respawn. Etc.
Knowing this, characters will often start one character, realize it doesn't suit them well for the game because the character wasn't what they thought, yada yada, so they make a new one. Now they don't want to lose those hours put into that other character, and the only real way to make those hours pay is to transfer the money and items from them to the new character. Should this be legal in Vives. Nope. But i still understand why someone would want to do it, and understanding that, i would think perhaps you could be a little lenient on the offenders now that it's been posted as to make sure it doesn't happen again. |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 09:14 PM |
If that person *doesn't suit them* then tough sh*t........ if they lose hours then "tough sh*t"....... As I have already posted on this........ I am most certainly NOT going to be lenient on them, I am going to act as mentioed above.
The only reason I can possibly "see" for this happening, is pure mechanics......... i.e. they're not as good as the "other class they play with" etc etc.......
this IS a roleplay server....... if you don't Roleplay you will be banned...... next person we catch doing this will be banned...... end of story........
As said beforehand, I don't like posting like this, but if it has the desired effect, and gets rid of the infantile generic NWN/anotherserverIwontmention....... then all the better for the other players.
*Hangs his finger over the ban button*
Next person = permanent ban.
Have fun :)
Arathon |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 09:35 PM |
| You hotkeyed it? *Hides in corner* |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 12:40 AM |
well I'm not going to sit here and try to look innocent. Ive done it and I won't do it again. I didnt do it to make a char uber, after all that is what the item level restrictions are there for. I see people logging in and out all the time. When you look at the players information stone, it shows they are logging in and out with chars in the fourwinds inn repeatedly. We know what that means.. items are being traded.. but I dont see anyone taking ownership and saying.. "hey we were wrong and lets not do it again"
Though I would find it funny if there was a dm or moderater that stamped BS on peoples reply that was trying to look innocent in this forum.
x91X |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 04:32 AM |
Loli was once served a pie by Tom Windwhisper which I have reason to believe was baked by Gnora. :D
*lols*
probably =P
well I'm not going to sit here and try to look innocent. Ive done it and I won't do it again. I didnt do it to make a char uber, after all that is what the item level restrictions are there for. I see people logging in and out all the time. When you look at the players information stone, it shows they are logging in and out with chars in the fourwinds inn repeatedly. We know what that means.. items are being traded.. but I dont see anyone taking ownership and saying.. "hey we were wrong and lets not do it again"
well... first thing, we got logs of the loggins in and out..
we see who stays, for how much time... if we see something that might be a transfering .. we write it down.. talk to the player.. i.e if it was item transfering, he get caught..
second thing.. there are players that come to that inn (or any other 'special place' ) to log out..
IMO it is allright... and more than that..
you wont see these ppl log in, right in the middle of your conversation. and you wont see them disapear while you look at them.
and well.. about item transfering by selling and then buying items..
It is the same as putting the items on the ground and coming to take em..
IMO if you sell it.. and then wait for a day or two RL
I dont see any reason why you cant buy it..
and Fen.. that was hilarious =p
*Is the 1% Immature Non-Adult*
and what am i? O_O =p
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 06:31 AM |
I don't think we ask people to understand the kind of behavior Ara talks about. The post is purely informative.
Transferring items from one to another of your char is simply stupid when it comes to items which are of good use to your combat or spell stats. In other words, if your char becomes the better fighter/magic-user because of it.
If we are going to say here, we are going to allow people selling the item to a vendor and allow buying the stuff with another char... then we oblige ourselves to keep a continuous tab on every transaction and make certain there are two RL days between certain transactions.
I was hoping you would spare us the agony. Sides this argument will only hold true if the economic situation in vives was such it needs considerable effort to accumulate your gold resources. Since this is not the case, and gold is still not a precious good, this noble form of item transfering is exactly that; item transfering.
Be glad with what you find, if you don't want it, leave it or get rid of it. Treat your characters seperately, they will love you for it.
Selling merchandise as Loli suggested, that is different. Logically you sell the rewards of your labours. Though personally I'd like to see some sort of corporations to reflect this more clearly. Such as a mining corporation where according goods can be sold. But that is another topic.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 07:04 AM |
| Dens, you must be part of the 99% Mature Adults. Or, you can be 0%, and thus, not exist. You do exist, don't you? -.- And with the gold thingy, why -isn't- gold so precious, and why do magical items drop so frequently? |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 07:18 AM |
Surely you can understand explaining why this is the case in a public forum will not do much good to the general problem. Sometimes it is better to be ignorant of certain things. You are fortunate enough not having to worry about balance too much. A lot of things come into play, hard to get things 'right' for everyone. And naturally the known problems are being dealt with.
Till that time, keep those bug reports coming about too easy ways to get xp and items. Or behavior such as explained above.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 08:15 AM |
Ruldain,
I'd love to have corporations and trading, if that can ever be worked out. I tried to RP this between the Halls of Bregodim and the Emerald Knights, trading gold ingots for platinum ingots, for political reasons as well as for material advantage. The implementation sucked, however, since it depended upon Jade Night, Gasher, and Loli all being IG at the same time for every trade and having nothing better to do than hauling ingots. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 09:46 AM |
Ruldain,
I'd love to have corporations and trading, if that can ever be worked out. I tried to RP this between the Halls of Bregodim and the Emerald Knights, trading gold ingots for platinum ingots, for political reasons as well as for material advantage. The implementation sucked, however, since it depended upon Jade Night, Gasher, and Loli all being IG at the same time for every trade and having nothing better to do than hauling ingots.
We did have trader merchants at one point, tho I don't think they were implemented very well. I'll add this to my ever growling list of things to look at adding in.
-Q |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 09:52 AM |
| Don't worry Q, as long as you keep adding things, we'll still love you. :P |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 10:05 AM |
I'm sorry Arathon if i really upset you with my post. I didn't mean to nor did i mean to make it sound as if it were okay what was being done, after all, i did say it shouldn't be condoned.
I guess i'm simply more sympathetic to the plight of someone that might do such simply because i've played MANY MMORPG's....and Vives is setup like most of them. Meaning it takes a lot of effort and many long hours to level your character. Should this be a reason to cheat? No. I'm simply saying i would understand why someone would be tempted to do this. I'm sure we've all had a character at one time or another that didn't come out the way we'd like...so we wanted to start over *shrugs*.
I guess i'm lucky....i only have one character on the server, so no such temptation for me *grins* |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 10:11 AM |
I didnt do it to make a char uber, after all that is what the item level restrictions are there for.
I think when situations like this arise where you feel you must resort to OOC behavior to accomplish something you want to do, why not post asking about it? If item transferring is being used as an alternate to a persistent storage mechanism, I would have very much appreciated a post on the forums asking about such things and if the Admins had any plans to do anything about such a problem. Usually if you do have a problem as such, we can come up with some sort of IC RPing solution. Without communication, we don't always know what players want.
-Q |
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Re: IMPORTANT: Item Transfering
Posted: 16 Nov 2003 10:43 AM |
We did have trader merchants at one point, tho I don't think they were implemented very well. I'll add this to my ever growling list of things to look at adding in.
-Q
Q,
Though it might not always seem so, you know we love you for your great devotion, interest, qualities, efforts for the mod, yadayadayada ;). If you can't fix it, no-one can! Q for president to raise more funds for vives and turn it into a multinational corporation!
Or in short, thanks for supporting so many ideas. And if your list gets too long, we need a meeting to set some priorities :). Really, thanks man. Ideas are worthless if there is not someone capable to implement them.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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