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Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 20 Nov 2007 01:19 PM |
The deviation between tabletop Dungeons and Dragons and Multiplayer Online D&D is that while you're not there, the game is still alive and changing. When you log out, it's assumed that your character does not phase out of reality - Can we then assume that he just sits in his house, or in a tavern, doing nothing?
I would like to see something put in place where characters still do things and have things happen to them while the players aren't present. Thus, random login events.
On any given day, on the first login of that calendar date, there would be a random event generated from a large list. It could be an opportunity to use your crafting skills - that's what D&D characters do in the "off season" between adventures. Perhaps it uses your best crafting skill to make some money.
"You spend the rest of the day working on forging some simple weaponry. You brought it to the merchant place that night, and sold it for 50 gold."
Maybe you didn't do so well. "You spent last night working on some potions, but they exploded in your face." - 5 damage.
Clerics could spend their time praying and contemplating their faith and see this message.
"You spent the night in prayer and contemplation of your God. As you awaken, you feel his favor." - And the player gets a special buff that lasts an hour. Bless, or Aid, or whatever.
There could be some general effects.
"While taking a walk last night, you were accosted by a bandit. You were taken by surprise. When you recovered, you found yourself missing 50 gold."
"While taking a walk last night, you were accosted by a bandit. You skillfully defended yourself." - And you get 10 experience.
"You awake in the morning with a cold!" - Disease.
Maybe expand the scope a bit with some delayed quest benefits or results of in game actions.
"The day before, when the Dryad thanked you and gave you the blessings of Nature, you smiled and went home. This morning, you feel especially invigorated." - Generic buff.
"You wake up this morning with a feeling of dread. You remember not what you did, but you feel angry eyes looking upon you." - Curse, result of a player desecrating a deity's altar.
Just a thought. Would be fun to see something like this. Nothing unbalancing, just a token reward here and there, or a little penalty. Nothing to ruin the day, just something to stir up some discussion. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 20 Nov 2007 01:43 PM |
| I personally love this idea...and there is a lot of potential for it to take many forms, whether it's short vignettes of how you spent the past couple days or you log on and immediately have a short quest you have to complete (or have the option to complete) based on something that happened that the character has to answer for or an opportunity she can take advantage of. I'm sure there are other ways it can manifest. Probably a ton more work but I like the idea |
T'mok Gurzi
Resident Gnoll Warlord
patron for the noble yet drink addled
Timik Gorozai the Mistake |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 20 Nov 2007 02:19 PM |
heh, now that's an interesting idea...
"you woke up this morning with a naked female elf on your right arm, a naked male half orc on your left, in the middle of a large dragon treasure horde. The owner wasn't terribly impressed..."
The trick is that we'd need lots of them to prevent them from becoming "stale".
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 20 Nov 2007 02:24 PM |
| I suggest we nominate a small team with a goal to come up with two or three hundred, to be edited down to a hundred or so. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 20 Nov 2007 04:51 PM |
A very good idea here, and it for some reason rings a bell, as if I've seen something similar before but can't point out where...
However, I can see how people would complain if a random action would not suit the character. "You had too much ale in the tavern last night, and now you have a terrible hangover!" - lowered mental statuses. Then someone could come and say "I'm a hippie tree-hugging elf! I don't drink too much "ale". I drink fine wine from the finest elven orchards, handpicked by juvenile elflings of pure souls and brewed by blind elfen nuns, then spent 300 years in kegs crafted from enchanted wood soaked with the blood of seven virgins."
It would work stupendously if it didn't force any unwanted character behavior, and had enough instances not to appear repetitive ("you caught a cold!" - "again? that's the tenth time this week! I got 16 CON for heaven's sake!).
Definitely something I'd like to see being looked at.
~~~
On the spirit of creative wish lists, Diablo also mentioned something concerning PCs who make prayers to their gods to receive small blessings/buffs.
It reminds me of Guild Wars, but mostly Morrowind and Oblivion, wherein there are shrines to the powers-that-be where you can make an offering and receive a small blessing depending on the power in question. For once, I like how the idea could be implemented in an RP environment. Even in a setting where gods are distant from mortals it can work and make sense, and instill a little more liveliness into the world and how it interacts with the player.
Something I honestly never liked about Vives is how gods were represented - petty and with a tendency to lower themselves and contest on who "shouts the loudest" (against other gods or worse, against mortals). On the other hand, if they don't do anything, it also gives the feeling of apathy from an RP perspective. It's a good way, I think, to let powers make themselves apparent through small gestures of kindness, rather than their "either shout or be silent" tendencies to go into the extremes.
These shrines could be placed in certain areas where the gods are represented (to borrow from Vives, a shrine to Midoran in Midor, a shrine to Elbereth in the Tears, a shrine to Vilyave in some birdy-place, et cetera).
It can also be taken further, which brings me back to the days of Heroes of Might and Magic, where the hero could enter a "church" and in that particular spot could never be attacked. An abandoned shrine in a wilderness could, for example, be a "refuge" deep inside hostile territory, sort of like the Church in Maldovia. In there you could get the blessings of a certain god, and even be safe around it from random encounters while camping (resting).
You can even make only certain characters get the blessing or even a curse. for example, if a Chaotic Evil character attempted to pray at a shrine to Vilyave, he'd be struck with a curse (a negative buff) rather than a blessing. Thus characters who would not get along with the god in question would not receive the advantage.
Furthermore, you could put "cursed shrines" or "evil shrines". For example, if one was to try and rest near a shrine of Menarok, he'd actually find himself with a HIGHER chance to a random encounter, because Manarok is such a bastard and his shrines bring bad mojo.
~~~
Another idea I've had is Environmental Effects, sort of like Wild Magic zones already in certain areas in Vives. However, with much greater variety.
For example:
Fiirhallen Halls - "The intense heat of this place wears down at your mind and body, and it is hard to maintain focus. You suffer a -5 penalty to your Concentration and Discipline skill checks and -2 to Fort saves"
Nebwood - "In this haunted forest lights and shadows dance before your eyes, playing tricks on your perception. You find it difficult to differentiate illusion from reality: -2 to Will saves."
Maldovia - "In this realm of nightmare and darkness fear is a tangible reality, gnawing on your consciousness with every passing moment. You suffer a -5 penalty to Will saves vs. Fear."
Temple of Helkris - "You feel the presence of the Ice Queen radiating through these hallowed halls, and you realize you do not belong here, she does not want you here. You suffer -3 to damage and attack bonus."
And other such environmental events which could be applied to certain areas, particularly "distant" and difficult ones, or ones which bear unique differences from a normal area (like how Nebwood is different to just "another forest").
~~~
I'm just throwing around ideas here.
I cannot imagine these things being easy to script and set up, but I can't say them and others wouldn't be a very nice addition further along the rode. I think they can add a lot more spice to the world and how you interact with it, and also put focus on those small details which aren't just "eye candy", but could have actual consequences (like the Environmental Effect idea, wherein the flames and heat and red tint aren't just a lighting effect - they're hot and they're gonna make an impact, however small). |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 24 Nov 2007 01:26 PM |
I'm all for more environmental effects.
While I tend to straddle the line betwee preferring simulation and high fantasy, I think a few areas where weather is a factor would be cool. Perhaps the fiercest mountains would require certain clothes or immunity:cold or face effects. The deserts require water or something, or traveling in the daytime would be debiliating. Not too much of this sort of stuff, as then it begins to feel like an exercise, but a few weather effects here and there would be great.
I also love the wildmagic areas. Would love to see something like that implemented in Vives2. What about areas that limit or magnify certain spells? So that fire spells in a fire temple are magnfiied, but cold spells don't work. In a temple devoted to a god of war, strength and endurance are increased? Yeah, I'm pilling on to what WA said... |
The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for...
-- Ernest Hemingway |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 25 Nov 2007 05:33 AM |
"you woke up this morning with a naked female elf on your right arm, a naked male half orc on your left, in the middle of a large dragon treasure horde. The owner wasn't terribly impressed..."
I had a nightmare like that once. I figure it's because I was using a wool blanket at the time and wool makes me itchy sometimes.
These login events remind me of IdleRPG bots that you run in IRC though. Random scripted events (at least they look random, there's probably some complicated algorithm that I wouldn't understand without a year's study of mathematics) that occur every now and then. Mind you in IdleRPG you're idling and not logging on, well maybe you are, but you get penalized for logging off because that defeats the purpose (or lack thereof) of idling.
Similarly random encounters fall into the same category. Do you really want to be walking down a path for the umpteenth time and fall prey to a group of bandits? Maybe bump into a beholder that lost its contact lenses and is causing a ruckus?
"Last night while everyone else was asleep you helped the Cyclops find his glass eye! Turns out it was forgotten in the jar of pickled eggs all along. [You receive 5 XP]" |
CHOO CHOO!
- - - - - -
Bereil Yadashem.
Markus Mortriety, Herald of Novus Aristi. |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 25 Nov 2007 01:23 PM |
| I think that some of the examples that have been used are a little dramatic and tilt the discussion away from something that may be accomplished at a basic level. I think the idea was conceived as a filler for time logged off, though, as I suggested it COULD springboard mini-quests it could also be something as simple as claiming you spent all of your time crafting and earning 2 gp chump change for making two silk bow strings. Or give each character a questionaire of basic qualities/traits/behaviors the character is likely to participate in and based on the answers switch some possible results on or off. Rewards should be minimal, overhead and upkeep should be small, but utimately it's just something to enhance the environment not unlike the descriptions we encounter each time we enter an area. At that point, it doesn't matter if it is repetitive and acts as a hook for new players and maybe a roleplaying launch point for people who want to play off having had a cold for the past week or spending the past week working at a loom or anvil. |
T'mok Gurzi
Resident Gnoll Warlord
patron for the noble yet drink addled
Timik Gorozai the Mistake |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 25 Nov 2007 03:47 PM |
Yeah to what Timik said.
While I also like this idea in principle, it is very difficult to implement this idea without it appearing as forced RP. As things stand now the player is able to make up all sorts of scenarios for what had been happening during time off.
What is nice about this idea is that some of these things have in game consequences.
What if when a player logged in with a specific character (and they show up ever so briefly in the introductory area) a conversation is fired that reads:
"In the meantime, {Character_Name} has been:
[Random option 1]
[Random option 2]
[Random option 3]
[None of the above]"
"None of the above" is the characters chance to opt out of the whole thing, and do whatever they decide without scripted consequences. The other three options are randomly chosen from a list, and somewhat influenced by character background, level, race, and class - and all carry consequences. Perhaps the consequences would also be random for each choice while influenced by time elapsed since last log in.
For example, Random option 1 might read as "Drinking", and then draw upon a drinking table with various consequences. Random option 2 might read as "Training", and then draw upon various tables depending upon the class with the most levels - a book worm table for wizards, a gym rate table for fighters, etc.... And Random option 3 might read as "Crafting", and then draw upon various crafting tables depending on whatever craft the character last worked at.
Other generic past times could be (if PG-13 allows), "Gambling", "Debauchery", "Gardening", "Philanthropy", or whatever suits the builders' fancies. |
Famous last words:
Mykal> it's my new wireless router.
* > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout)
Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m.....
* > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat) |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 26 Nov 2007 08:13 AM |
Or people could care less.
It's not like it's going to be a global announcement. If you don't like what it says, ignore it or change it to fit your paradigm. The idea is to add a little flavor, something to give you a little grin. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 26 Nov 2007 09:57 AM |
Or people could care less.
It's not like it's going to be a global announcement. If you don't like what it says, ignore it or change it to fit your paradigm. The idea is to add a little flavor, something to give you a little grin.
If that is all it is, I say forget it. It is not worth implementing. My imagination will do much better without some annoying text that doesn't mean anything.
If however these circumstances have consequences, then it could be cool. |
Famous last words:
Mykal> it's my new wireless router.
* > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout)
Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m.....
* > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat) |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 26 Nov 2007 03:50 PM |
Or people could care less.
It's not like it's going to be a global announcement. If you don't like what it says, ignore it or change it to fit your paradigm. The idea is to add a little flavor, something to give you a little grin.
This cannot be easy to script. If something is going to be added just so people could ignore it, it should not be added at all, and the time of builders and scripters better spent on something that has more of an impact. I'm not saying it is a bad idea - I like it a lot and think it holds a lot of potential to spice up Vives and make it more dynamic. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 26 Nov 2007 06:13 PM |
I disagree. I find that the things that keep me coming back are the little things, the minute details added. Just because "it's a lot of work" doesn't mean it's something that shouldn't be done if it's potentially the thing that'll make this server stand out against the others. I'm speaking generally here, not saying that my idea is the best idea ever.
Understand that this was my idea of it. I put it on the forum to see other people's opinions about it; that it was good, why it was bad, how to expand it, or how to make it better. I like what people have said so far.
How much of an impact should it hold, though? That's the question. Should there be a "personality quiz" at character creation to better hone the list to your character? What if the list was just things that happened to you, and took decisions you made out of the equation entirely? Personally, I'd still like to see Craft skills and such be put to use occasionally for this purpose. It would certainly give people a reason to take them, in addition to Pick Pocket, Perform, etc. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 26 Nov 2007 08:18 PM |
| I think characters tend to be too fluid for something like a personality quiz to really work over the long term, even a length such as a month might be too long. If I were to implement something like that, it'd be an A B C D series of options where X happens, and you react in A B C or D way. That way, as your character changes over time, you can still answer accordingly within the same infrastructure. |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Random Login Events
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 10:00 AM |
Personally I like to decide what my character has been doing since my last session. Few people are without answers when you ask them IC, hey, where ya been, whatcha been doing?
I don't mean the lock-step class appropriate answers either (a wizard spends the off hours researching, a fighter in training, etc.). Many wizards in Vives have specific projects. Sometimes these are described in posts - DiabloStan your posts about tinkering with golems are my model for this. The posts where Talion is going through his father's papers and teaching himself the craft are also an example of this. If I'm away from the game I expect my character to spend that time well, and I make posts to that effect! Lots of folks do this.
If something like random events in between sessions were to be implemented, perhaps it would be appropriate to offer the choices like Henesua suggested at the end of the session rather than at the start of the next one. It could be something that is scripted to happen (like some dialog?) when you want to log out, and you would be sent a reply the next time you log in (kind of the way the server inflict magical damage when you log back into the game to get you down to the same HP you had when you left). That way a player could decide what they wanted their character to be doing over the next few days, and the server could generate a result and decide what *actually* happened to them.
Crashes and such would complicate this. Maybe this could be a script that the player triggers with a widget, making the whole thing voluntary. If you don't use the widget before you log off, you don't get any randomness when you log back in. And, maybe, if you go through the dialog and then come back in an hour instead of a week, you just get a message like "Your character has not been idle long enough for anything to happen". Because 1 hr on the server = 1 hr real time, the script could account for how long you are gone.
That would prevent abuse from logging off and on to generate a quick sequence of random events looking for something good to happen.
Just going on here, this whole thing could be made quite smart about *where* a character is being left off at the end of a session. This is on the simulation-side of things, but if you play a wizard there are only so many places you could do research. You could not IMO log off in the Black Pearl and declare that you are doing arcane research until the next time you log back in. Realistically, in some locations you might not have any option but to twiddle your thumbs and literally wait for something to happen.
This would create some joy for those players who think about where they are logging off and generally try to RP their "down time". Or some grief, if those players are pretty much content with just RPing it without any scripting.
In the spirit of having so many class-defying characters on the server, I don't think random login events should be class-specific. I'm imagining a series of options and a series of outcomes that anyone could choose from and have inflicted upon them. And, if we want to take locations into consideration, not every option or outcome would be available in every area on the server. |
"What are you talking about?"
"I'm talking about dying."
"What's that supposed to mean?"
"It means lying in the ground with dirt on your face and holding your breath forever."
-Burt Reynolds, "The End" |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - Scripted Downtime
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 11:37 AM |
I'm starting to really like this, Renter. You have some great ideas there.
It sounds like we are talking about a system of scripted downtime that is entirely voluntary, and provides some in game consequences upon log in.
A nice thing about this is that it does not require DM interaction. DM interaction is great when you can get it, but not everyone is so fortunate as to have their own personal DM following them around.
With a bit of interesting flavor text, and interaction with Vives mechanics (like the cool stuff Ficcy mentioned that she wants to appropriate from the Wanderer mod) or even some more traditional rewards like a temporary spell affect, a few GPs, a drunken stupor animation, or an item in the inventory - could make for a relatively immersive experience. Even when logged off stuff happens to your character that further connects them to stuff IG.
I doubt this would happen in the initial release, but I see a lot of potential for this in the future. |
Famous last words:
Mykal> it's my new wireless router.
* > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout)
Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m.....
* > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat) |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - RT verses GT
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 12:27 PM |
... Because 1 hr on the server = 1 hr real time...
I just noticed this in renter's post. Obviously this makes sense as NwN is (largely) a real time game, but how long will a day be?
Perhaps It would be a good idea to have a day (noon until noon) take say 5 hours or ten hours (or any other number that isn't a factor of 24). So that if a player in any time zone logs on at the same time each week, he will be playing at a different time of day in game, but for the sake of that session the 'game time' is indistinguishable from real time (unless someone spends 5 hours non stop in game). |
"Absolute precision buys the freedom to dream meaningfully." - Donal O' Shea: The Poincaré Conjecture. |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - RT verses GT
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 01:53 PM |
I think we should measure our days from noon to noon, so that 11:59AM is one day, and 12:01PM is another day Just like in years past! :D |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - RT verses GT
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 02:01 PM |
I think we should measure our days from noon to noon, so that 11:59AM is one day, and 12:01PM is another day Just like in years past! :D
Maybe every day should be from reset to reset? :P |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - RT verses GT
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 03:43 PM |
Negotiating GT vs RT is a pointless argument. In a PW, time is necessarily flexible. BUT in Vives for consistency's sake, each real day passed is equal to an in game day - while the hours within that day can pass however fast or as slow as needed.
This conversation has come up many times before, and the answer is always the same - the present system. |
Famous last words:
Mykal> it's my new wireless router.
* > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout)
Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m.....
* > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat) |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - RT verses GT
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 03:51 PM |
Negotiating GT vs RT is a pointless argument. In a PW, time is necessarily flexible. BUT in Vives for consistency's sake, each real day passed is equal to an in game day - while the hours within that day can pass however fast or as slow as needed.
This conversation has come up many times before, and the answer is always the same - the present system.
Aye, I was only joking there, so I agree. For simplicity's sake, 1 RL day equals 1 IG day, regadless of the numerous day/night shifts that occur throughout that time. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - RT verses GT
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 04:22 PM |
| I think most of us were talking a bit tongue in cheek. In fact, I don't think I'm ever NOT talking tongue in cheek. It's an awkward way to talk, but well worth the exercise. |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - RT verses GT
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 04:30 PM |
I'm not suggesting we keep track vives days. These values would make time even harder to keep track of. I'm talking about when sunset and sunrise are. In Vives 1 a night can be the length of a conversation which stretches the imagination a little. It's not a big problem, but as this is ajusted by putting a number in a box in the toolset (at least if it works in the same way as vives 1) it would not be much trouble to change.
Sorry about the error in my calculation it is any number that is not a factor of 168 (24*7) that would have this property. So any number that has a prime factor other than 2, 3, or 7.
I said noon till noon, as sunset and sunrise change with season, and elevation of surrounding land (although this may not be the case in NwN, I'm not sure). Tasra is of course right that by convention a day is measured from midnight to midnight, but for our purposes it is only the frequency that matters.
I realise that this would cause problems with things like the Agea. The builders would know about this. |
"Absolute precision buys the freedom to dream meaningfully." - Donal O' Shea: The Poincaré Conjecture. |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - RT verses GT
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 05:18 PM |
Changing the day/night cycle, as far as I understand, has implications aside from aesthetics.
First of all, there's things like the Aegea, like you said, and other factors which change from day to night that have an impact on game play. Whether or not the same ideas will be implemented in Vives2 is left to be seen, but assuming they are - too long a night would mean too long a wait, which hurts game play.
Aside from that, and something which I'm not sure of, is that certain spells have a duration which is based on hours (such as hour/level). While rounds and turns are easily defined regardless of the in game time progression, hours seem to last based on hours as counted in the game. That means that in a case where a spell lasts 24 hours (like the Summon # spells): if one IG hour equals one IG minute, then the spell lasts 24 RL minutes, but if one IG hour equals one RL hour, then the same spell lasts 24 RL hours.
I'd like some confirmation on that last bit, but that's the impression I got from the system. If that is the case, then there's balance issues to consider when shortening/lengthening the day/night cycles.
However, I agree with Frimble's basic idea. I would also like to see a day/night cycle which lasts longer. The impact in makes can be both negative (in the case of waiting too long for the Aegea) and positive (such as certain events/occurrences/effects/stuff which happen only at night, like the bats/hounds at night in Midor Woods).
All in all, I'd rather pass on things like waiting for a ship because it doesn't sail at night - which causes more annoyance than anything else - for a day/night cycle which lasts longer and thus has more impact. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Vives 2 Wishlist - RT verses GT
Posted: 27 Nov 2007 06:17 PM |
Other games, like my internet moon game, work on a six hour day. But really, I'm not against 1 RL day = 1 Vives day. Spell durations can be altered if they're unbalancing. As far as the boat traveling at night, just add another boat that sails at night and just charges more. I'm not against things being harder at night; it should be so.
Anyway, don't jack this thread. Take this conversation elsewhere. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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