|
Class XP Scales
Posted: 06 Aug 2006 03:21 PM |
Hey all,
First of all for clarification: the XP Scale is the percentage of experience earned for the actions the characters makes. For example: Fighter's experience gained from combat is 100% etc...
I have been going through the xp scales for each class as listed in the vives phb, and I seem to fail to understand some of its logic.
I'll hope if someone would care to shed some light or bring more related issues.
1) Arcane Archer's combat experience is 50%, and their discovery is 100%.
Now, Arcane Archers are the high guards of Ferein, and they are as the class suggests, archers, meaning: combatants.
Why should they gain less experience than other fighting classes (And even less than rogues who get 65%)? Not to mention gain experience from "discovering new things", they certainly shouldn't stand on the same grounds as Rangers, who get the same percentage.
The dwarven high guards (dwarven defender class) recieves the full combat experience(100%), and only 25% discovery. Why then the elven high guards gain half as much from combat? (and then again, gain four times more for discovery)
2)Priests earn the same combat experience as sorcerers. (35%)
Priests however do learn how to use all the types of armor and simple weapons, and combat is obviously something they do more than sorcerers(who only learn how to use weapons), but still, same xp earned.
As well as there is the object of attack-base progression, priests' progression is better than sorcerer's, that means they do practice in combat more than sorcerers.
(Also, Pale Masters getting more than the classes above, shifters and rdds suffer from low combat experience even though they have a medium ab progression and engage in combat often.)
3) Slightly off course, but I'd like to ask about the Abillity usage experience...That seems to only apply to opening locks and disabling traps?
As far as I know rangers don't get any experience from tracking or using their wilderness lore tool. I don't know about priest domain abillities or other class-features, but it seems quite odd that only disarming traps and picking locks are included. |
|
|
  |
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 06 Aug 2006 03:30 PM |
Most of those are set up for balance purposes. If you look at cleric you'll see they rank near the bottom on a lot of things and it is a PITA to level up a cleric. Thank god for all the RP EXP my character has got or I'd still be at level 9.
I really wouldn't worry about it. |
Juylina Komthya | Portrait - Priestess of Naruth |
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 06 Aug 2006 09:41 PM |
*still at level 9...*
Not a cleric... |
"I've got a sword and it's a good one, but all the bleedin' thing can do is keep someone alive, listen. A song can keep someone immortal!" - Cohen the Barbarian |
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 06 Aug 2006 09:43 PM |
First of all, the xp scales are reviewed from time to time and adjusted when a problem is determined to exist. For example, shadowdancers were altered last year to bring them more in line with rogues.
Second, if you feel there is a problem, pm a message to "all dms" and we will discuss it.
In the case of clerics, clerics get spellcasting xp, and they can earn a considerable amount of XP from combat which a sorcerer cannot do to the fact they can buff themselves into virtual tanks, immune to just about everything.
If we adjusted the either the spellcasting XP or combat XP for clerics, we would very rapidly see a lot of high level clerics appear out of no where. Clerics are, in general, one of the most powerful single classes. Combine that with their ability to raise the dead and they are very useful indeed.
No, I do not feel that clerics need adjustment at this time.
As for Juylina, she is a pure RP character and very rarely engages in combat. (If looks could kill, Juylina would have been epic already)
We'll take your comments on AA's under advisement, but keep in mind one thing. AA's are the only class in vives that automatically has an auto magic weapon regardless of what bow they have and are the only class that can have better than a +5 weapon.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 06 Aug 2006 10:03 PM |
*pokes Benny*
The second higest level character on the server is an epic AA. |
Juylina Komthya | Portrait - Priestess of Naruth |
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 07 Aug 2006 02:13 AM |
We'll take your comments on AA's under advisement, but keep in mind one thing. AA's are the only class in vives that automatically has an auto magic weapon regardless of what bow they have and are the only class that can have better than a +5 weapon.
What about Monks and their Ki Strike +3 at level 16?
We need 21 WISdom for Ki Strike +4 and +5, but that's another story. |
Ayntherian Tîwele - Elven Monk, earnest student of Ki and the Martial Arts
His Diary - Updated at 26/8/2006 with ENTRY VII |
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 07 Aug 2006 02:33 AM |
| I was talking about bows and thus was excluding monks. However, if you wish to compare, by total lv16 an AA will most likely have a +5 bonus - something which a Monk is never likely to achieve and certainly not until later epic levels (30ish) |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 07 Aug 2006 04:40 AM |
In my opinion, the thing is that certain classes are meant to advance 'slowly' due to either the power in the class, or for the sake of rarity.
I have a shifter who's at the moment reached 7 lvls in that class (along with 5 druid lvls, of course), and sure, it's a rather chocking difference once I tried comparing it to how a fighter earns exp.
But I say, be happy about it. - You'll most definately be more unique when you do pull through with things. ;) |
"You can own the earth and still, all you own is earth until, you can sing with all the voices of the wind." |
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 07 Aug 2006 04:49 AM |
1) Arcane Archer's combat experience is 50%, and their discovery is 100%.
I just checked, for an AA it is 75% combat, 60% discovery |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 07 Aug 2006 05:08 AM |
The second higest level character on the server is an epic AA.
Umm... true, but with a hell of a lot of hours (over 2500) IG spread over three years, and an xp penalty which is applied across the board to all forms of xp she might get other than RP.
In fact it's a valid point to remember that if you go for a build ignoring favoured classes this will have an effect on the xp scale that you are shown on level up. Elvalia's certainly reflect this, her percentages are definitely less than those shown in the scale.
In addition, as Paul quite rightly stated, Arcane Archers are the ONLY class IG who (eventually) get a +5 (and better) as a result of their class abilities. Any other class, since they would be extremely fortunate to get a +4 through DM reward, does not have that advantage. |
ELVES! |
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 07 Aug 2006 10:02 AM |
We'll take your comments on AA's under advisement, but keep in mind one thing. AA's are the only class in vives that automatically has an auto magic weapon regardless of what bow they have and are the only class that can have better than a +5 weapon.
What about Monks and their Ki Strike +3 at level 16?
We need 21 WISdom for Ki Strike +4 and +5, but that's another story.
Keep in mind that those ki strikes give no bonus other than allowing you to hit creatures with DR. |
Juylina Komthya | Portrait - Priestess of Naruth |
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 07 Aug 2006 07:10 PM |
I have a shifter who's at the moment reached 7 lvls in that class (along with 5 druid lvls, of course), and sure, it's a rather chocking difference once I tried comparing it to how a fighter earns exp.
But I say, be happy about it. - You'll most definately be more unique when you do pull through with things. --Sorrow Maker
Yeah! I've only run into one shifter about 10 months ago, and he had a bad case of lycanthropy: into a Kobold with an acid dagger! He'd have an attack of his sickness and go ape-$#!+ on you and then run off! Shifters have been pretty rare in Vives, so It will be fun to see another and how you play it! You're absolutely right about that.
3) Slightly off course, but I'd like to ask about the Abillity usage experience...That seems to only apply to opening locks and disabling traps?
As far as I know rangers don't get any experience from tracking or using their wilderness lore tool. I don't know about priest domain abillities or other class-features, but it seems quite odd that only disarming traps and picking locks are included. --Summoned
That's one that used to really get me! I wondered how come Rangers didn't get experience for dominating animals... until I discovered the advantage they have in being able to virtually "party-up" and whoop-a$$ until the timer resets the creature. You can get a lot of XP and explore pretty far by having a strong animal as a companion. Add your default pet, and the class is much more useful than I would even have considered it in the original game setup. Rangers still remain the most limited class to play, but I'm not sacrificing the great RP that I get with Kal just because a class sucks. I really appreciate that Rangers have a use, now, even though Druids have the same advantage making Rangers really not all that buff.
Really the balance is pretty right on at this point, in my opinion. I've only seen a couple of characters shoot up real fast, and the DM response earlier in the thread implied which one the most recent was. And that particular player RPs so well, that frankly, I LIKE that that Character is so buff. It actually adds to the character and to Vives.
I noticed you're pretty new to Vives ((WELCOME!!!)) I think you'll see with time that there are certain mixes and such that work well, and there are a few spoilers you can install into your PCs to make them more "ascendable." Having DMs on and giving RP-exp, I think you'll still find that RP and party-playing is the best way to increase a player's strength ((just like the handbook says.)) And I think that's the way it was meant to be. If you really want to avaoid a hitch, keep race and the Multiclass penalties seriously in consideration when "planning" a PCs "future". The -20% for not multiclassing wisely according to your race can REALLY slow you down in Vives. There are Death penalties and it gets progressively difficult to get exp, so that additional penalty could be very frustrating. Kalannar levels REALLY slow, ((he was my first PC on Vives, and I built him poorly anyways)) and he doesn't even have the -20% penalty yet, since he is a half-elf! Notice the rule about multiclassing to third level after a certain point, as well!
You can hit about level 6-7 pretty quick, but after that it gets a bit trickier unless you've found a loophole... or unless you party a lot. You can also pick cross-class skills that give exp ((at a higher cost of skill points)), if you're so hungry for the treasure, exploration and experience. I myself would just keep it in character. Paladins aren't going to go around picking locks, I wouldn't think. But my Ranger has been known to break into things...
With Kalannar, His character evolved in a different direction than I expected at first, so technically he's prepared to multi into a Harper, or a Shadowdancer, this was largely due to some IG stuff changing his course... you never know when RP may supercede your original plans. That's why I say just have fun RPing! Even though he is built poorly and levels slowly, Kalannar is still my favorite to play and has the most prominent role of my PCs in Vives. Power-playing in Vives will get boring, just like it does anywhere else. And some of the best PCs I've played with never even reached 20th level. ((Until they started partying with 20th+ level PCs on a regular basis! HAHA!))
I'm no DM, but that'd be my take on it after a year on Vives. Man I love this gameworld.
I'm happy you came to join us. Enjoy your stay!
K.I. |
"Life is a short trip... travel light"
--
PC Descriptions with Journal Links |
|
|
|
|
Re: Class XP Scales
Posted: 07 Aug 2006 10:46 PM |
That's one that used to really get me! I wondered how come Rangers didn't get experience for dominating animals... until I discovered the advantage they have in being able to virtually "party-up" and whoop-a$$ until the timer resets the creature. You can get a lot of XP and explore pretty far by having a strong animal as a companion. Add your default pet, and the class is much more useful than I would even have considered it in the original game setup. Rangers still remain the most limited class to play, but I'm not sacrificing the great RP that I get with Kal just because a class sucks. I really appreciate that Rangers have a use, now, even though Druids have the same advantage making Rangers really not all that buff.
Rangers are all about the skill points. The stealth.
I thought Aiken (pure ranger) was weak until I started playing Zube. At only 8th level there is little that he can not sneak by. And dex based fighters do have something going for them... and it happens t be a road Rangers are well suited too. |
Famous last words:
Mykal> it's my new wireless router.
* > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout)
Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m.....
* > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat) |
|
|
|