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Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 21 Sep 2003 07:18 PM |
First off, credits... while this has been a long-standing idea since the conception of Vives (ref: initial Vives proposal), Cast-Player-Characters (CPC) is an idea that is strongly influenced by the Toril crew. Finally we get down to working on it after nudges by Gib...
Introduction
While undoubtedly it is much more fun to have DMs around all the time, it is seldom technically possible (real-life schedule; raw DM numbers are restricted due to (i) DMs being inherently high-risk; (ii) DMs tend to get fed with variety of non-fun admistrative task, (iii) we'd like to preserve exemplary players as role-models for other players). We understand that this is a strong barrier to you in developing your own stories - there simply is so much you can do as a 'player' - and we would like to be able to help you as much as possible. 'Cast-player characters' is the resulting concept: it is an initiative to give mature, responsible players more options and freedom to create quests and events on their own without having active DM intervention.
In its core, the idea is simple; with DM-intervention, these players will have semi-NPC characters setup, with props and costumes to match (hence cast player characters), as well as access to a number of DM'tools to open up their options. They are then free to login with these characters for the purpose of, well, making Vives more fun!
In more detail, CPCs are envisioned to be roughly divided into two categories: General CPC, and Specific CPC. Details follow.
General CPC
General CPCs are characters meant to be reusable for a variety of contexts, and are supplied with various props and a multitude of costumes, and have general names such as 'A hooded Figure', 'A shabby dwarf', 'A Farmhand from Buckshire', or 'Well-dressed human'. These names serve to separate the character from PCs (which may be in possession of props normal PC not have access to), for the sake of easier player/DM/Admin coordination. The players are given the freedom to initiate plotlines singly, amongst themselves, or in conjunction with DMs, and hopefully in the process help flesh out the background of Vives more fully.
For the last purpose, it would help if the player does a brief write-up after the quest/event, so we'd have a chance to permanently modify the world as a consequence of the player's actions.
Specific CPC
Specific CPCs are the 'notables' in the land that have a pre-determined background (for example, 'Queen Aquinas', or 'A Midoran Knight' comes to mind) With DM assistance, they'll then be setup with props and costumes appropriate for their character, and are expected to play out the role of the character (e.g., acts out the part of a Knight in preservation of law and order etc.) The ideas about specific CPCs can either be 'assigned' as needed, or proposed by the players themselves. Since these CPCs have a substantial role in the development and growth of the land, we'd appreciate knowing what happened, as well as if you're planning on a long leave.
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A list of players and the CPCs they possess (and a brief description) will be made available to DMs/CPC-players, for better communication purposes (in arranging quests etc. that have more than one CPC needed). The list is to be maintained by the DM setting up the character for the player.
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Lastly, if you'd like to be involved as one - and have specific ideas in your mind, either as General or Specific CPC - let us know! This is particularly cool combination with the writer's tasks, where you'd end up getting a region which you develop both in writing as well as in-game.
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 22 Sep 2003 02:56 AM |
Sounds cool, also sounds like what you do when there is nothing else to do and you don't feel like really playing your own chars, but you are also not a DM. Because I don't know about you but when there is a DM event goin down I want to be in the party and not some dumb peasant.
It also sounds like a DM aid because maybe the DM isn't good enough to do it him/herself. I personally don't mind a few secs of lag while the DM switches to other chars to have a fluent story straight from the mind who thinks as he/she writes and reacts. No wasted time watching as the DM and the CPC try to figure out where the other will take the certain conversation if the variables, PCs, say something not in the obviously preplanned script/rough outline of what will be said for the quest to go forward. To me it just sounds like a wanna be DM or a bored player.
So if you were wondering where I stand on it, I would have to say in the middle. Not a typical Sion answer! I can see the good side of it but it also looks like a joke to me.
Soooooooooo....... as 8ball would say:Could be, could be. ¿Sion? |
When in doubt, mumble. When in trouble, delegate. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 22 Sep 2003 06:52 AM |
| Will DM's be able to use CPCs assigned to other chars, or will the player of a CPC have to be online for a plot involving their CPC to take place? |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 22 Sep 2003 12:07 PM |
Will DM's be able to use CPCs assigned to other chars, or will the player of a CPC have to be online for a plot involving their CPC to take place?
No, when a player takes on the CPC, it is the sole 'property' (and responsibility) of the player to develop and play out the character (I'm thinking you're speaking about specific CPCs). Personally I think this is a positive thing that preserves the integrity and congruence of the Specific-CPC, as otherwise their knowledge/personality fluctuates according to the DM who possess them on the occasion. There will be in need of much communication amongst the CPC-players and DMs, which is why relevant lists have been compiled and will be maintained regularly. |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 22 Sep 2003 06:14 PM |
| I ran my first CPC event today on Vives today and while I cannot speak for the players I think it went pretty well for a one man show. I think it was 9 total players who got involved from the begining to the end with 4 players taking part the entire time. The little mini-adventure involved two 'general type' CPCs which each represented a different NPC that I switch back and forth with throughout the session. Little class struggle, a little frightening the nobility, mysterious goblins, hunting down some tugs, and a rather nice gnomish Violin. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 23 Sep 2003 05:17 AM |
I took part in that CPC, and since I have a bit of free time right now and can't get on the server because I'm at school, I'll chuck my tuppence into the hat about what I now see as the pros and cons.
The event last (night for me) went very well. The CPCs were excelently played throughout, and I had a lot of fun taking part. The two NPC/CPCs whatever didn't seem to clash too much, and it went smoothly. Very well run for a one man show, as has been noted above.
However, there are some parts which are sticky compared to a DM run quest, as I'm sure people have noticed. The first is that if there is only one person playing the NPCs as CPC, you can't go back and talk to the other ones without a lot of hassle, and you can't split the party (A DM can jump back and talk to the PC sent back with less hassle than a CPC player relogging to fetch the other NPC).
The other sticky thing for me last night involved a CPC being knocked out. A DM could res the NPC when he "came back round", a CPC could not. IMHO, a DM/CPC combination would work very well- but it is probably harder for a CPC to deal with certain things than it would be for a DM to deal with the same problems.
All in all though, I like the idea, and think it does work well. Really enjoyed last nights quest, thanks Gibreel.
-Barnas |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 23 Sep 2003 12:32 PM |
| I also took part in the last bit of that CPC and I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed it. I can only repeat what Barnas said, so I won't do that. But kudos to you Gibreel, you did a marvelous job !!! |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 23 Sep 2003 01:56 PM |
| I'm interested in adding some more functionalities to the CPC-players (e.g. setting CPCs immortal at will / teleport functions; in a way, us admins see CPC-players as assistant-DMs), but would like to hold that off in the mean time to see how the idea on its own holds out. |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 23 Sep 2003 05:05 PM |
This is an idea I totally favor.
Wonderful to see it implemented, very very cool stuff. When I joined vives I had hoped for these things to happen, and see, again I am not disappointed in my (sometimes high) expectations!
*does a few cheers for the staff!*
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 26 Sep 2003 04:07 AM |
I've been thinking about things that could help our Cast in planning events on their own/playing things out with much more freedom... and here's some things I'd like to work on over this weekend. Please let me know if you think there are more urgent things regarding this (e.g. potential exploits etc.)
- Develop a DM-item to 'Cast-ify' a character, and 'un-Castify' a character as well
- CPCs should be taken out of the combat XP-loops
- CPCs should be taken out of the magic XP-loops
- CPCs should be taken out of the crafting XP-loops
- CPCs should be taken out of the discovery loops
- Deacquisition of items by CPCs should be logged; CPC-only common items will be destroyed upon dropping.
- CPCs should be given a set of wands/tools of their own, that hopefully can:
- Create special visual effects
- Create certain creatures (friendly and hostiles) from a panel
- Make her/him- self friendly to hostiles for a certain time
- Create certain items from a panel
- Create certain placeables from a panel
- (teleport to/from certain places?)
- grant quest experience reward (logged)
More ideas? |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 26 Sep 2003 05:25 AM |
My idea would be to give them a tuned down "DM's helper" wand...Don't know where they're from, but I used them a lot on Sonatii when I was DMIng, were very useful.
My ideas to add to that list though would be:
Point and use resurection rods for CPCs
Inventinary modification rods for CPCs
Give/Take gold as well as XP
Those would make running a quest easier for the CPCs, IMHO.
All IMHO, as usual
-Barnas |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 27 Sep 2003 02:06 AM |
Is it that hard to make them DMs? make the CPC just a hard a$ trainer if you want, but this gabreel guy or whatever sounds like a DM to me if he goes through that much trouble to do a quest. Sounds to much like being a DM now to call it anything else, "Let's give them immortality and take tham out of the XP loop", make the bastard a DM and call it a night! Quit wasting time making players who obviously want to be DMs have a hard time! You know that a DM can be there while another DM is doing a quest right? It is called having two DMs at once.
I have chosen my side! Make the "CPC" a really hard and stupid DM test, or scrap it all together!
With a passion, Sion.
Ps: DMs can also play NPCs, that is what they do! |
When in doubt, mumble. When in trouble, delegate. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 27 Sep 2003 05:10 AM |
As a DM you can do and must do so much more. In some ways that is good and in some ways that is bad, since it eats your own playing time and quest plotting time.
Therefore a DM will have a harder time playing a CPC role to full extent in some cases. I think CPC's are a perfect way to make a distinction between people who enjoy making plots with consistent or somewhat consistent chars. A CPC will have a broader history than an NPC, especially if it is played by someone with the purpose of motivating Roleplay (not just offering quests but also as Aria stated you have Lords, Queens, Guildmaster, who are essential to keep Guild Rp flowing or deal with state affairs). You spare yourself the adding of every potential char in the world as NPC as well. And I mean, if you are a member of a Knight's society, you really want to see your Knight Officer in a the Guildhouse, motionless being able to say the things put into him through scripting? Or you want interaction? The best interaction you will get when assigning people who enjoy playing such a character to actually play it to his/her hearts content. Bothering them with other DM tasks, if it can be avoided, we should, since it will definitely taint their enjoyment of the game.
The experiment worked, people were pleased, so I don't see why we should cancel it now. Give it a longer test run. This point was one of the main assets to vives at one point. I at least, hate to see it sacrificed to DM positions.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 27 Sep 2003 12:56 PM |
i second ruldain's view.
i don't want to know about all the secrets of vives that you have to know to be a full DM...as yet, anyway. PC's run by DM's don't have nearly the fun, cuz they know everything already. (at least, that is my own experience of it). CPC's, on the other hand, get a carefully chosen subset of DM abilities, without the godlike knowledge of a full DM. i really like the idea.
i would be much much more likely to do a CPC than be a DM, at least until i have exhausted most of the novelty of the campaign world. the main reason i haven't volunteered is that i expect my online time to drop precipitously soon, and it wouldn't be a good thing to start something i can't expect to be able to do justice to......well, that and the fact that i am not really sure the admins would look upon such an application with favor. :)
having "Jr. DM" CPC's around makes tons of sense, and gives vives a unique flavor that i find enchanting. yes, let's have more of them!! eases the load on the DM's, adds to the RP and the *story* flavor of the world, and makes quests more available and accessible. all good things. |
But long ago he rode away
And where he dwelleth none can say |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 27 Sep 2003 01:08 PM |
Well, I have two views on it:
I love the ideas of CPCs and giving them tools to help make them successful CPCs. So, here's a big +1 on CPCs.
But, last night we ran a DM adventure with a CPC, and for the specific quest, the CPC was at a disadvanatage since we have 1 CPC and 3 or 4 DMs. The CPC had no good way of coordinating with the DMs, since the DMs were all in DM chat mode. So if we could run that quest over again, I would have brought the CPC in as a DM for the duration of the quest.
So, it looks like to me the CPC idea is good for ongoing characters in the storyline, but doesn't work out as well for on the spot NPCs that have to be here & there at a moment's notice to run a DM quest, since the CPC doesn't have all the abilities a DM does.
Well learn even more as the experiment continues.
-Q |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 27 Sep 2003 01:17 PM |
Since Sion mentioned me I guess I will post a quick response that in a waym echoes what has been mentioned already. While for some players running CPCs may be a stepping stone to becoming a DM (Yes, I would like to eventually DM--however I feel it makes sense for me to put some time into Vives first. I see it as a good test. ) other players simply want to avoid knowing plots and the worlds complete history.
Not all CPCs are not all going to be trying to run their own plots, many are simply going to take on important NPCs and run them during DM run games, or to spice up PC/NPC interactions for other players. When a DM run event is being run for some characters 6-8th level that old time player with a 12+ level character has the option to run an NPC and ease the stress on the DM--switching between multiple characters and RPing is harder on NWN than in a regular game.
CPCs can fill many different roles, all of which are different than being a DM. I have seen these rolls work well on other servers. |
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Re: Cast-Player Characters, An Introduction.
Posted: 01 Oct 2003 05:38 PM |
a Quickie update: all the limitations to CPCs have been implemented and tested (thanks to Rom, aka Midor Justice) but not the bonus features. Well, and a *bump* for folks who haven't seen this thread... or folks who've to get back to me (or more likely, folks who I've to get back to  )
And other folks who've CPCs setup already, request a DM to properly set your status (the CPC wand is under Items -> Custom -> Tutorial -> DM's CPC wand) |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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