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Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 02:48 PM |
Ok please dont flame me for anything that is posted elsewhere, I havent had time to look and thought that the perspective of a newbie on Vives might be helpful.
First I have to say overal I think Vives is excellent. I havent tried any other servers but I did look hard and am pleased here. There is a great community and great scenery. However:
Roleplay:
This can perhaps be a bit limited at times especially if you play during the day GMT. It might perhaps be nice if there could be some very low level NPC style role-play scenes (maybe with a little XP) to get new people going. This might also be a good way of introducing people to the politics of Vives. This could simply involve multi-selection coversation threads with some NPCs with XP based on your response.
XP:
That brings me to XP. Whilst I agree with Aria on another thread, that XP is a means to an End not and End itself, but if you are prevented from really going places because you dont have the skill then XP can become a dead end.
For instance, I reached about 4th level as a Mage, including turning invisible and exploring lots, doing plenty of quests, crafting and role-playing. I then got to a point that I couldnt go any further or doing anything because there was nothing left for me to do that was within my ability to survive. Partying up was also limited as I was never in the right place at the right time.
I would suggest as far as a socerer goes, perhaps a better way of penalising spell abuse rather than reduce XP to next to nothing and certainly no penalty for losing a familiar. Losing constitution is bad enough (perhaps extend period) without having to lose XP for using something which is essential to staying alive. I know you can unsummon it but this is sometimes easier said than done.
Quests:
Perhaps another answer is to have a few more low level quests in the obvious areas. I have only done two that I could complete alone.
Character Development:
What I sometimes do in my offline games is to award upto 1000XP for Character history etc. This gives incentive to develop a character properly and something for Dms to judge RPing against
I know this has been lengthy so i will leave it there. But most of all I think Vives is truly a great place and I have enjoyed my time here.
Regards
Evaramier
PS. Thank you to everybody I have met you have made me feel truly welcome (and my sister Calia |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 04:15 PM |
Evaramier, I have to agree with you on many points. As a newbie I have had a difficult time finding things to do w/o visiting the seven sisters unintentionally. It would help if there was a known meeting point for low levels to gather so that they could go out together rather than sniper mode. I am in EST and I have yet to find another low level to group with. (Granted I have been on the server less than 10 hours but still.)
I too enjoy the premise of Vivies and appreciate the dedication to RP that many on the Server adhere to.
One more thing: Maybe this is my ignorance of the way that NWN handles multiplayer, but all my map pins disappear as does my knowledge of areas (i.e. fog still in place each time I log on). Should I just resort to a PnP map until I know the layout by heart? Is this an unfair nitpick?
Anyway just my thoughts.
Foli |
I wish I knew what I was supposed to do. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 04:28 PM |
You need a PnP map for map -pins-, however after a certain number of OnEnters to an area (Dependant on INT and class), then NWN map is revealed to you.
Oh, and I like the XP for offline RP sort of idea. I've seen it on other servers, and it's worked really well.
-Barnas |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 07:09 PM |
| Making player map pins persistant might be possible. We'll have to ask Quietus about it when things quiet down for him in RL. |
I do what the voices in my head tell me too. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 23 Feb 2004 04:32 PM |
I would bear in mind that much of the inter-class balance regarding the Sorc and the Wizard is their relative difficulty at lower levels. Once a wizard or sorc breaks through his or her glass ceiling (this varies by race, feats and playstyle) he or she is a force of nature.
I sympathize with your frustration but I also think it important to realize that while my pure Fighter is far easier to get to 6th level solo than your sorc is, your character will eclipse mine at 20th level. Not that this is a bad thing. You paid the price for your power at 20. I had it far easier. :)
p.s. I know there are other caster classes that CAN solo extremely well but... well not much we can do about that. WoTC really laid a stinker of an egg with some of the classes and how they match up with their peers and Bioware did not take the time to clean up the mess. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 23 Feb 2004 04:45 PM |
I have to agree with the above post. There is some point on a curve where a mage goes from being a burden on a party (tripping over their feet, etc) to utter devestation. I'm glad its hard for mages to reach this point, because, imho, a well-played high-level mage is the most-powerful being in the game, especially with 24 hour summons. Having a lot of powerful mages really devalues magic as a whole.
I think playing a mage is probably the toughest at the younger levels, and, for the reason above, I think it should be. I don't believe mages are meant to solo, until they get to a point. The point that while a fighter is still hacking and slashing, they are laughing because they killed their target years ago.
I guess you just have to keep at it, and don't bother comparing yourself to fighters and other classes, because they're not the same...your curve is slower, but it speeds up at the end....that's the way it goes :)
-Narenia aka Dina |
-Narenia
Main PC: Dina Islme |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 23 Feb 2004 05:03 PM |
From a "whose tougher point of view" perhaps I agree. But from the realities of Gaming, especially if you are online at awkard times it doesnt really matter who is more powerful than who as that is not really the issue (at least as far as I understand Vives to be concerned). What is important is an ability to have fun. That is why I suggested more low lever quests that are soloable.
I wasnt saying, poor little sorcerer they have to wait to be World Domineering I was saying at lower levels it can get a bit tedious as you can never really go anywhere or do anything.
A solution isnt to make it easier for them to level (although as I have said they suffer way to harsh XP penalties compared with other classes) but perhaps to give them something to do.
Personally I have tried to create my own fun which has nothing to do with Quests, Combat, exploring or XP. So look out for Evaramier the Jurist. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 23 Feb 2004 07:03 PM |
Actually, I have found soloing with a low lv Wizard to be fairly easy (and in many ways safer than partying). It dosent take much to get any character to Lv 3, and then you have invisibility and a semi-decent summons. From there you can go almost anywhere, and can start completing the quests. By Lv 7 (where I am now, after about 10 days of mostly solo play) you're turning into a little powerhouse that can solo many places.
The fact that Sorcerers need to be lv 4 to cast 2nd level spells is probably a tough bottleneck though. I imagine that extra level required for the next level of spells really hurts you on an ongoing basis. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 23 Feb 2004 10:13 PM |
From a "whose tougher point of view" perhaps I agree. But from the realities of Gaming, especially if you are online at awkard times it doesnt really matter who is more powerful than who as that is not really the issue (at least as far as I understand Vives to be concerned).
I don't mean to seem contrary just for the sake of being so but I disagree completely. The reality of all multiplayer gaming is that it must at least attempt to balance each player's baseline for playing. In this case that baseline is our character. Yes, individual skill plays a role as does one's understanding of 3rd edition rules. Still, the attempt must be to keep the classes at least somewhat balanced with respect to one another.
This is not to imply that a fighter should always equal a mage. I do not believe that at all. What is a long-standing fact in Dungeon and Dragons ever since the Redbox game was that Magic Users ( OLD SCHOOL TERM! ) are weak at low levels and strong at higher ones. If your Sorc survives to 20th that is going to be one wreaking-ball of a character. Have fun as you should!
Now, that being said, if indeed you do play at off-peak times and thus you have a hard time finding groupmates well...I would say you chose the wrong class. You need a strong solo'er and that most certainly is not a Sorc. Again, I do not mean to sound harsh but your proposal is to take the one and only mitigating characteristic away from the Sorc class. (i.e. it is difficult to solo or level at all). |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 24 Feb 2004 11:05 AM |
| However it is certain that Fighters and Magic Users are much closer to being on par in 3rd Edition and especially NWN, than they ever were in the old days. Fighters have picked up insta-death and fast kill feats, while in NWN Casters dont get any of their most powerful epic abilities (improved spell capacity anyone?). It seems obvious that Bioware is really trying to make the classes more equal. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 24 Feb 2004 11:35 AM |
..... but failing.
Dev Crit DC- 10+Half character lvl+STR Mod.
Spell: 10+Spell lvl+ Ability Mod.
A caster cannot cast spells with a level of half their character level. They certainly can't cast as many death magic spells per day as a fighter with dev crit. Heck, a WM build can get a threat of 10-20/X2. That's a crit every..well, twice a round at lvl 20 assuming always hitting.
-Barnas |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 24 Feb 2004 04:19 PM |
| Yes, dont get me started on Dev Crit... what was Bioware thinking? |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 24 Feb 2004 05:28 PM |
I hasten to point out again I was not trying to start a thread that was a Class vs Class battle. Everyone is going to have something to say or an axe to grind here.
My point was that at low-level there is not a lot of quests to do that you can do solo. That spreads across all the classes, and if you are on at times that are quieter (or even busy but in places where non of the bigger characters happen to be) then Vives can get a bit lonely.
Since Mages suffer from soloitis a bit more than other classes and also (and I know Ive whinged about this enough) suffer FAR more XP penalties that other classes I think the issue is more important for them.
At base level, its easy to reach about 4th level, after that you need a lot of help. Im 7th, have done all the quests I know of save one in Kobai Desert and am not strong enough to do either that or venture to other places. Therefore if I am on and there is no-one around I have nothing to do.
So what does it matter that one day I may become a big spell-weilding meteor storming armageddon machine. The point I want things to do now. Ways to earn that XP that I keep losing (mostly, if not nearly always to the Lag monster). In fact I wouldnt even be that interested in XP so long as I had a challenge.
In any case I have been told this is to be rectified.
PS When will Bert in the Four Winds listen to me? |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 24 Feb 2004 05:42 PM |
| *grinds axe* |
Humbly Submitted,
Sinjin Kane |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 24 Feb 2004 06:52 PM |
In any case I have been told this is to be rectified.
PS When will Bert in the Four Winds listen to me?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Rectified how? Could you expand on that please? |
"The issue isn't wether you're paranoid, its wether you're paranoid enough..."
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 25 Feb 2004 06:49 AM |
*Wonders why Sinjin is wielding an axe?*
I have been told that there are going to be more low-level quests added in areas that low-level people can find them.
Sorry, for confusion |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 25 Feb 2004 08:56 AM |
| Cool! Thanks for the clarification |
"The issue isn't wether you're paranoid, its wether you're paranoid enough..."
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 25 Feb 2004 10:51 AM |
However it is certain that Fighters and Magic Users are much closer to being on par in 3rd Edition and especially NWN, than they ever were in the old days.
I agree completely. In the old days it was foolish to play a pure fighter as they came 'stock' out of the rules. The Paladin and the Ranger were MUCH more powerful and more interesting back then. WoTC has done a good job of raising the fighter up.
Original poster: OH! Sorry, I did not get that theme out of your post. I thought you wanted to increase the sorc/wiz class somehow. I did not understand you were asking for more low end content. SORRY.
I agree with you there that IF the dev's/DM's get some time more low end content would be great; but, let's keep in mind these are folks with RL's, families and such. "Content" is very time consuming to construct. (<---- Dio knows from banging his head against the monitor during hundreds of hours inside the toolset).
:)
p.s. I agree that Dev Crit needs to be nerfed into oblivion. The DC on it is REDICULOUS! I do not want them to even balance it, just take the cheesy feat out. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 25 Feb 2004 11:02 AM |
If you played a fighter in Vives, you'd be amazed at how many monsters have developed a strange immunity to Criticals.  The fighter played by yours truly would be Level 36 before she got Dev Crit, assuming I stay here that long and go that direction. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 25 Feb 2004 12:25 PM |
| Yes, and crit immunity is an (often at high lvs) unfortunate compensation for dev crit. Unfortunate because it really hurts rogues and such that dont get dev crit anyway, but need to crit or backstab to get past damage reduction since they cant wield 2 handed axes with power attack like the fighters can. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 25 Feb 2004 12:50 PM |
| Actually they were immune to criticals before the two higher levels of Crit were available, or even known of, as far as I am aware. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 25 Feb 2004 01:15 PM |
You can't crit on sneak attack bonus damage anyways. Never have been able to either.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 25 Feb 2004 01:22 PM |
| The point is, either will (hopefully) defeat the damage resistance. I didnt mean to imply you needed both. |
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Re: Feedback from a Newbie
Posted: 25 Feb 2004 01:50 PM |
Ok, I'm getting on a tangent to the tangent here, but as a side note, I have always been of the opinion that high damage reduction + crit immunity (both on the same creature) is a bad thing. Likewise, Magic Immunity to lv 9 and lower spells is a bad thing. I dont feel that making a class or group of classes useless against a particular creature on a common basis adds anything to the game.
Epic quests exempt of course. There has to be a reason for a gathering of epic heroes! |
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