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Vives Update v98
Posted: 22 Nov 2003 04:34 PM |
Well, we've been making some progress on Vives. Lots of little tweaks here and there, but I'd like to point out a few very visible changes in the next version v98. They are:
Respawn Locations
When a player respawns, the respawn location depends upon where you are in Vives. As an example, if you die and respawn when in the northwest part of the continent, you'll respawn location will also be somewhere in the northwest part of Vives (somewhere, but I'm not telling where :P). Alo has been kind enough to provide code that does this. Thanks Alo :)
Respawn Penalties
Currently when a player respawns there is an XP penalty and a gold penalty. If you hadn't noticed, currently the XP penalty will not drop a player below the level they're currently at. For characters that are level 15 or greater, this has been changed. When you respawn, the XP penalty is now one full level.
Spell XP
XP gained via casting has been slowed. This was done to stymie repeated casting simply for XP.
Quests
I have updated many quests (more than 30) so that they cannot be rerun. In this process, it is possible that I may have broken some (I don't think I did, but it *is* possible), so if you see some that act oddly, please let me know.
-Q
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 22 Nov 2003 04:43 PM |
By one full level, does that mean to base start of one level before? As in, more than the PnP penalty?
EG in case that didn't make sense...
Player at 150k, lvl 17. Do they go to 120k, lvl 16, or where?
-Barnas |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 22 Nov 2003 04:51 PM |
By one full level, does that mean to base start of one level before?
No, it's proportionate to how close you were to the next level. Example: If you're currently at 16th level with 128000 XP, you're 50% of the way to level 17. If you respawn, you will be dropped one level to 15 with 112500 XP, which is 50% of the way to level 16.
-Q |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 22 Nov 2003 04:53 PM |
Right. Thanks for clearing that up!
-Barnas |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 22 Nov 2003 04:54 PM |
By one full level, does that mean to base start of one level before?
No, it's proportionate to how close you were to the next level. Example: If you're currently at 16th level with 128000 XP, you're 50% of the way to level 17. If you respawn, you will be dropped one level to 15 with 112500 XP, which is 50% of the way to level 16.
As an alternate implementation, I was considering making the XP penalty proportionate to the size of the image in one's sig.
-Q |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 22 Nov 2003 04:56 PM |
For the record, I got rid of the picture right -before- that post :P
I had it up for the day after the RWC. Sorry.
-Barnas |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 22 Nov 2003 06:13 PM |
| If you have no image at all in your sig, do you get an ep -boost- from dying? *grin* |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 22 Nov 2003 07:31 PM |
| Nice try ;) |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 07:14 AM |
HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAY!
Is all I have to say.
(And it rhymes too!)
Thanks Q, and Alo. Now we're getting places!
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 08:17 AM |
ooo more locations?
and i wander.. any lvl 15+ wanna test the new system ? i will be more than happy to help :D
j/k ;)
thanks Q!
and.. well.. if anyone still see an item that is gettable (trough quest) more than once - report it!
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 09:05 AM |
| I'm curious how you are going to handle the demotions. Are you going to take the player's word for it which attribute they increased last time, and which feat they took? Or are you just going to grab their best as further punishment? |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 09:27 AM |
Hi Slink
Not exactly too sure on this....... but I -think- if you lose a level then it automatically removes the last attributes/feats/skillpoints etc that you added....
There is a reason why we are doing this believe me ;)
Cheers
ara |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 09:32 AM |
| The way I see it this is almost like having a death gem in your pocket and not being able to respawn. to make sure that people after level 15 have to think twice before attack a dragon, or go into something crazy. I like it, it doesnt sound like a harsh rule but it makes players act like DMs want them to =). Good job on this one. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 09:45 AM |
A note of caution;
What happens if you lose a level and you are holding an item that requires you to be a certian level to use (such as a weapon or armor)? In the past your char, was locked out of the game. This has happend to Neek in the past when we had some "weird" crashes.
Example:
Neek is a level 15 and he is holding a sword that requires that the holder be a level 15 or higher. He dies and is demoted to a 14. In the past, Neek was denied reentry back to the game due to holding a too high level of weapon.
Has this been considered under the new system? |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 10:00 AM |
I'm curious how you are going to handle the demotions. Are you going to take the player's word for it which attribute they increased last time, and which feat they took?
NWN automatically removes the abilities, skills and feats.
Or are you just going to grab their best as further punishment?
Sounds like you have something you're trying to say.
-Q |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 10:18 AM |
I'm curious how you are going to handle the demotions. Are you going to take the player's word for it which attribute they increased last time, and which feat they took?
NWN automatically removes the abilities, skills and feats.
Or are you just going to grab their best as further punishment?
Sounds like you have something you're trying to say.
-Q
For the former, how does it do this? Does it keep track of what you did at each leveling and undo it? Is it programmed well enough to do this accurately?
For the latter, yes, that was a biased phrasing. Your new rule is a biased rule. By the time someone gets to level 15 or higher they're getting almost all their EP from RP, so what you are doing doesn't altogether make sense to me. At any rate, it's been no secret that Death's Sting is punishment for various behaviors that are undesired in Vives. That's fine, I'm living under the rules and obviously enjoying it enough to stay here for a lot of hours. Most of my waking hours, in fact. I'm not going to leave on account of the new rule. But I do wonder a little bit about it. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 10:25 AM |
Two things:
Could you please answer Neek's question? I'd also like to get some clarification on that.
Secondly, not wanting to sound like a whiner because I have a level 15 character: I agree with slink that the experience we receive after getting level 13 or 14 comes in most cases from roleplay. As a lot of people on the server, nearly all my free times goes to playing on Vives. I loved to see my character grow from the bumbling mage he was to the (well still bumbling :p) mage that he is now. He died, I respawned, I lost xp... no big deal. But that never went with the loss of abilities. Logically I can't understand it. Until you reach 15 you're never going to lose an ability, so why suddenly start with people at level 15?
This is no gripe, I just would like to hear the reason behind it. I hope you're willing to explain it. Thanks ! |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 10:33 AM |
I'm curious how you are going to handle the demotions. Are you going to take the player's word for it which attribute they increased last time, and which feat they took?
NWN automatically removes the abilities, skills and feats.
Or are you just going to grab their best as further punishment?
Sounds like you have something you're trying to say.
-Q
For the former, how does it do this? Does it keep track of what you did at each leveling and undo it? Is it programmed well enough to do this accurately?
I do not know how it was implemented. My comments was based simply upon my observations.
For the latter, yes, that was a biased phrasing. Your new rule is a biased rule. By the time someone gets to level 15 or higher they're getting almost all their EP from RP, so what you are doing doesn't altogether make sense to me. At any rate, it's been no secret that Death's Sting is punishment for various behaviors that are undesired in Vives. That's fine, I'm living under the rules and obviously enjoying it enough to stay here for a lot of hours. Most of my waking hours, in fact. I'm not going to leave on account of the new rule. But I do wonder a little bit about it.
The death penalty was added in as a compromise for a few things, mainly a combination of level caps and life beyond level 20. Some DMs wanted level caps, and others didn't. Some DMs wanted some sort of perma-death if a player died at level 20 and others didn't. This is the compromise.
-Q |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 10:45 AM |
How about an option for people with +lvl 15 characters to XP freeze them?
They loose XP normally from respawning, but they can never again advance beyond the lvl they chose to freeze the PC at.
If they choose to "unfreeze" them, they go to the base XP of the lvl they froze at, and go back to advancing normally?
-Barnas
[Edit]((That's suggested because... well... I don't think anyone will be likely to take their +lvl 15 character into combat without a HUGE party and multiple clerics with a system like the current one.)) |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 10:50 AM |
Barnas, your suggestion is like having lvl cap..
afaik most Dms were against the idea at the last meeting, so i dont this kind of thing will pass.
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 10:55 AM |
Could you please answer Neek's question? I'd also like to get some clarification on that.
Yes, yes, I'll add in code to unequip your items when you die. I had originally meant to add this in, but got lazy yesterday. I am working on this today.
Secondly, not wanting to sound like a whiner because I have a level 15 character: I agree with slink that the experience we receive after getting level 13 or 14 comes in most cases from roleplay. As a lot of people on the server, nearly all my free times goes to playing on Vives. I loved to see my character grow from the bumbling mage he was to the (well still bumbling :p) mage that he is now. He died, I respawned, I lost xp... no big deal. But that never went with the loss of abilities. Logically I can't understand it. Until you reach 15 you're never going to lose an ability, so why suddenly start with people at level 15?
This is no gripe, I just would like to hear the reason behind it. I hope you're willing to explain it. Thanks !
I discussed the rationale in a prior post.
-Q |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 11:25 AM |
Previous to this modification, if you had just levelled, you would only lose the xp since that level. In this context, if you were just 1xp past level 15 for example, and respawned, you would lose exactly 1 xp. This naturally leads to people taking risks soon after levelling that are unrealistic. I think this a more fair implementation of the death penalty. Now, if you try this, you'll find yourself the same percentage of xp past lvl 14.
We chose level 15 for the milestone here for several reasons. Primary among them, is that players at such an advanced level (yes, 15 is really advanced in vives) should be experienced enough to not run about recklessly and take stupid risks. By this time, people should know better than to be running around alone (not in a party) or without medical backup (clerics, healing kits, scrolls) when they are going to places unknown, or with known very powerful enemies. We don't want a bunch of lone wolves running about trying to gain xp.
Additionally, there simply was no penalty at all for death after level 20 except a gold loss. Of course, we never intended for people to get that high, but they are gradually reaching that point. Can't have a bunch of supermen running about the server respawning at will. This model also supports advancement after lvl 20, should we decide to go with HotU when it comes out.
The type of experience that is lost is not a factor here. If you want to consider this, consider it a loss of a portion of your previously gained combat XP. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 12:43 PM |
[Edit]((That's suggested because... well... I don't think anyone will be likely to take their +lvl 15 character into combat without a HUGE party and multiple clerics with a system like the current one.))
Which is precisely a goal we seek to achieve. Parties. Not solo'ing. Also this will bring you into touch with more people won't it? More Rp, more xp through Rp ;).
Roleplay is the key here. As for the loss of abilities... you really think you can just keep standing up after you died without ever suffering harm one way or the other? If this measure will make people cautious of where they go and what they do. Perfect.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 01:48 PM |
v98a will have some more modifications:
- some more XP tweaks (spell XP and other)
- fixed persistent containers from losing certain items
- merchants no longer accept containers that have something in them
- at respawn, all equipped inventory is unequipped
- (for DMs) the area editor is back in service. for a while it wasn't picking up new areas.
Umm, I think there was somethign else, but I can't recall now.
-Q |
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Re: Vives Update v98
Posted: 23 Nov 2003 01:52 PM |
Rul: I was talking about bubblewrapping level of combat avoidance, not healthy partying :P
I'll have to see how it works out before really commenting, though.
-Barnas |
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