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Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 03:43 PM |
Here's something that has bugged me for a while, and I've always tried to avoid it. Today, I decided to take the bull by the horns. So here it is: I've always assumed that 9 for your skills (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis and Cha) is average. I've tried to associate myself into these skills, and some other random people. I figure Einstein himself has an Int. of 14. And I don't think any of us are Einsteins.
So here's the question: How do we roleplay a character smarter than ourselves?
Thanks for the advice! |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 03:54 PM |
Average stats for a human are 10-11.
According to a rulebook, 16-17 is genius INT. Above that is supergenius. So I figure Einstein hits an 18.
Roleplaying a character smarter than yourself is hard. Best thing to do, IMHO, is to use complex sentance structures and constructions to give the impression that they're educated, and think through what they'll say in a certain situation beforehand. Work out the issues that they're experts in and could ream off info on a cusp in, and learn/have near you said info so that they can ream it off if required.
Beyond that, try and make the best decisions you can. Don't make stupid calls with them, and take a logical approach to all thinking. Or a completely irrational one. Or whatever said character would most likely do, in your opinion.
I don't think that will of helped much... but hey. It's a hard thing to do. Stick at it, and see what works.
All IMHO,
-Barnas |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 04:41 PM |
For starters...
You do not take the height of the stat point too strictly. For vives it is enough to relate the different stats to each other and to your char concept (and I dont mean class, but history, ideals, purpose in life and all that cool stuff!). If you want to be smart, your int is highest compared to your other stats. Same goes for strong.
In that light the height of a stat does not matter at all. The amount is purely to determine ability scores and modifiers which is all very game technical and therefore unsuitable to actually dictate how smart you really exactly are and if this relates to your own IQ or not ;).
If you really want to include the stats in your Rp, that is my take on it, use them in relation to each other. And play accordingly. High INT, act nerdy. Doesn't matter if your INT is 17 or 15, for most half-orc barbarians you'll be a sage regardless.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 04:49 PM |
| Also dont forget that Wisdom and Intelligence arn't mutually inclusive. A high Int, low Wis, would know alot, but would not always be able to apply what the know to making good decisions. Where as a high wis, low int character would have great common senes, but not neccisarily know that much. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 05:21 PM |
| huh?! |
"ehehehehe,.."
Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo. |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 05:34 PM |
| Not to cut you down here on this one tas but If I wanted to worry about stats extra id ether be playing one of my other online games or Star fleet battles which relys heavly on numbers so for me in this area its a no go |
"...Another day passes and I slip further from reality..." |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 05:45 PM |
Half-Orcs are the most intelligent species within the world of Vives, but they speak gibberish and attempt to come off dumb. We just do that to fool all of you, so speech and actions are not always a measure of super-god-like intelligence that the Half-Orcs possess, for instance .
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 06:33 PM |
Interesting...
Oh, and Fen........ LONG LIVE THE DESTRUCTION OF HALF-ORCS!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAAAA!
Anyways... I never used them in relation to each other. In my opinion, a char with 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9 is still just plain ole Bob Farmer. But using the same relationship method, 18, 18, 18 (etc) is still plain Bob Farmer too. That doesn't make sense to me. I always built my characters around their stats too, depending on how I wanted them to turn out. I'm assuming I was wrong? (For example, one of my characters is a thief with 16 int.) |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 07:37 PM |
I think a lot of it depends on how you want to play the character, it's unfortunate that stats are more tied to what you want your character to be able to do, and therefore can't always be tied to what you would like to roleplay him or her as.
For Veshtan i am rather lucky. I want him to be fairly intelligent, even for a fighter. My INT is 13, which works out well, since i want Improved Knockdown. Since getting improved knockdown requires that level of INT, i simply am getting lucky that it also fits with the kind of person i want Vesh to be. Reasonably smart as warriors go, but not always wise (WIS 10) in what he says and does.
My biggest problem is with charisma. I play Vesh as a rather charismatic fellow. Those who know him in game know him to be outgoing, helpful, and somewhat of a pest with his constant teasing. Unfortunately that doesn't really fit with the 10 charisma that he's got. So i feel that normally, unless your int is 8 or something, it's better to simply RP your character the way YOU want to, regardless of your stats, since your stats are more of a baseline for what your character can do physically and skillfully, then a baseline for your personality. None of us are born with a piece of paper tied to our leg as we pop out that says, your son/daughter will have a STR of 18, but god is he/she gonna be dumb! *winks* |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 14 Nov 2003 07:53 PM |
Well, I wasn't going to get into this one, but you play a character more intelligent than you are the same way as you play a character that is anything you have never been. That includes the opposite gender and twice your age.
About the charisma, I wonder. Dwarves are automatically born with lower charisma unless you pour points into the attribute. But are they ugly to each other, or only to the other races? I mean, surely an alligator looks good to another alligator. And when it comes down to it, CHR is only used in an automatic fashion in the game for some magic, isn't it? That's why Loli's Bard levels are only of any use in item identification. This was intentional on my part. She studied item lore when she did smithing for two levels, earlier in her life when she was getting herself straightened out after some personal setbacks. She has zero magic at her CHR level. Any attractiveness she has is due to her personality because physically she hasn't got it. Plus, with all the scars she's gotten from bird beaks and bear claws she'd be pretty disfigured by now anyway. Even to another alligator. *grin* |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 02:51 AM |
I've always been understanding that a dwarf's -2 CHA is due to their withdrawn personalities and generally distrusting nature rather than their innate physical attractiveness.
And Tasra: The whole of DnD Stats are beased off the fact that the average human commoner has 10-10-10-10-10-10 for stats. That's the benchmark. 9-9-9-9-9-9 is a very stupid farmer, who is weak, malcordinated, bad with people, and has no common sense. |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 02:54 AM |
Slink,
I dont really agree on that one..
you can act like a char which is older then you (after all.. you know [or at least thinks so] how such char will act - and you create it actually ;)) and str/dex/con or not even considered.. cuz they only affect the technical part, (your char wont talk like a 'agile' char.. I havent seen many ppl do that stuff.. cuz you mostly need *descriptions*.. which is much easier in normal PnP but not so easy in chat [well at least IMO])
but having a char with more Int/Wis/Cha then you.. that's where the problem begin.
after all.. playing 'stupider' chars.. are easier.. you act 'dumb' or talk silly (tho! you need to know how to play a stupid char! but i wont get into this =p) and usually wont have any smart ideas..
but with a 'smart' char.. the char is suposed to consider, and think about things you might not now.. so you just plainly cant do/think/say them..
and about charisma..
well.. you can think about charisma as beauty or ugliness... but what i think, it is suposed to be. is the other meaning of the word.. an ability to influence others either by speaking, or commanding.. and convincing them you are right.
so sure.. beauty something to do with this.. after all.. if you are an ugly orc (no offence there - you orc lovers =p) or a beautiful nymph.. your sex appeal will have an affect on your audience..
but also, chars can look 'good' but just cant speak to an audience and convince it.
so chars with high cha might be better looking.. but IMO the main idea is the other meaning.. and that's what i think when seeing a char with 'high' cha..
about what Landru said,
I agree with Tasra..
18 in all abilities is the same ol' bob the farmer..
and also.. saying vives work this way.. well, i disagree.. cuz this is pretty much min/max abilities..
I mean.. you will have a char.. give him 18 str.. 18 con.. and the lowest abilites to all others.. then say it means he is super strong and got the world's most amazing con..
and all his other abilites are low comparing..
which is exactly min/max 'ing
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 08:39 AM |
| I still disagree that we should roleplay our characters based off of any of our stats unless those stats are super low. The reason being that no person in real life is born with a set of numbers to define their attributes and no one can ever give them a set of numbers to do so. Yes, some people are smarter, some people aren't quite so, some people are stronger, some aren't so, but here's the problem. The point buy system makes it, for game balance reasons, not roleplay ones, so that if you're very strong, you're automatically not very smart and usually not as coordinated, which really isn't very realistic. In real life, everyone knows that just because you lift weights and are very strong doesn't mean you're stupid. We might like to joke about it as being so, but we know it's not true. Not all jocks are dumb. And not all intelligent people are weak. Some are, some aren't. Nor do i believe that using the excuse that this is simply holding to what the average is, to be true either. I don't think any of us ever plays a game saying, i want to play a character that's average, and just like everyone else. You can't really define a persons wisdom, intelligence, or charisma with a number. So doing so in a game is strictly for balancing purposing so you don't have a bunch of super people. *shrugs* That's how i feel anyway. |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 09:11 AM |
The way I look at it is that we play God for our characters. We do build them, and I do admit the balancing thing is true. I don't think any one of us are super liked, super swift, super strong, super smart, wise beyond our years AND able to take hits like a rock.
So, by playing God, it really -is- possible to make a character that's strong and swift or what have you. Just because you're not super super strong AND super super swift doesn't mean they're stupid. They can be "Above Average". I made a rogue recently that's a genious. (Just for snickers and giggles) I think he'll be a lot of fun to RP, if he weren't smarter than I. :P |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 09:17 AM |
Not roleplaying by stats again... this is the fourth PW this has come up for debate in this month. Please... just don't do it, you're not taking into account any number of issues that make a character.
Also, the originator pointed out the huge logic flaw in the concept, so please, spare me and don't bother roleplaying to stats at all. |
Eh? |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 09:23 AM |
| Bah. Why do I get the feeling this conversation just took a nasty turn for the worse? "Spare me" I'm glad you care so much about everyone else and their opinions. |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 09:47 AM |
Not roleplaying to your stats? Come ON!
The Roleplaying Stats (WIS, INT, and CHA) are there because some characters are smarter, wiser, or better with people than others. You can't just ignore that. My PC has points DUMPED into CHA just because she's pretty dang.. well... pretty. She wouldn't be so pretty if she didn't have the points in those stats. End of story.
You can't ignore stats. A fighter with 10 INT, WIS and CHA is NOT as smart and able to discuss complex ideas as a Wizard with 18 INT, 16 WIS and 16 CHA. End of story. That's the basics of the DnD system. Some people have certain character traits. Those are their stats.
I'm not saying that the only guide to a character's personality is their stats. But their stats ARE a guide. If you want them to have a certain trait, like being very smart, or very this, or very that, you need to put points into that area. 10/11 of a stat isn't low. That's average. 11 is actually fairly smart/ fairly strong. 13 is strong enough to swing a sword through someone and keep the swing going with enough power to hit someone else. 14 for a stat is HIGH. 15 is exceptional. Above 15 and you're talking one of the most [......] people in the world.
But if you have 10 in a stat, you shouldn't act like your a genius the whole time. Heck, you could be a god at mental arithmitic with 10 INT, I suppose, but you're not generally as smart as a person with a higher INT. That's all I'm saying on this...
Hope that made some sense, all IMHO,
-Barnas |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 09:50 AM |
| I hate doing this....I agree with Barnas. |
I'm The Cult of Personality. |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 10:19 AM |
*twitches*
Stop giving me excuses to rant, dang it!
First up. I did find a scale for IQ to D&D Int scores. I kill myself laughing at your Einstein is 14 Int statement. Rubbish. If an IQ of 145 is 19, then Einstein we're talking about an Int of 24-26 easily. 18 is the intelligence of a genius and is equivilent to an IQ of 140.
As to playing a character that is more intelligent than yourself, I sure as heck have no trouble with that when it comes to Shaz Whose Intelligence I can barely comprehend, yet for some reason have little trouble following his line of logic. He also has enough Wisdom to see that he can see who and where most needs his skills - but not enough common sense to know WHEN he should keep his nose out of other people's business.
And MUST I get into another argument over Charisma = Beauty? It does not! Charisma = your social intelligence, your ability to interact with people, your sense of self and presence. This is why Shaz'jen, as half an incubus, certainly looks overly handsome, only has a Charisma of 12. He's far too reclusive to have a Charisma of 18. And in the same breath, this is why my main novel character, Phoenix F, also looks pretty good and has a Charisma of 6. It's not because he's as ugly as hell, it's because he'd rather punch you in the face, lose his patience or explode with temper before speaking rationally. |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 10:22 AM |
The Roleplaying Stats (WIS, INT, and CHA) are there because some characters are smarter, wiser, or better with people than others. You can't just ignore that. My PC has points DUMPED into CHA just because she's pretty dang.. well... pretty. She wouldn't be so pretty if she didn't have the points in those stats. End of story.
I still think charisma doesnt reflect how pretty your char is.. but how convincing.. and the char's ability to convince others by talking.
You can't ignore stats. A fighter with 10 INT, WIS and CHA is NOT as smart and able to discuss complex ideas as a Wizard with 18 INT, 16 WIS and 16 CHA. End of story. That's the basics of the DnD system. Some people have certain character traits. Those are their stats.
*nods*
the problem is.. most players use -their- INT/WIS/CHA to think as their char..
maybe they put it out diffrently.. (like 'talking silly') but it is still not their char's idea, but the player's.
I'm not saying that the only guide to a character's personality is their stats. But their stats ARE a guide. If you want them to have a certain trait, like being very smart, or very this, or very that, you need to put points into that area.
I agree about the guide part..
not saying we should play srtictly by the rolls.. but a barbrian with low wis/int and raging.. wont bother on detecting and disarming traps..
10/11 of a stat isn't low. That's average. 11 is actually fairly smart/ fairly strong. 13 is strong enough to swing a sword through someone and keep the swing going with enough power to hit someone else. 14 for a stat is HIGH. 15 is exceptional. Above 15 and you're talking one of the most [......] people in the world.
the problem is, that there are more than 1.. more than 10.. and more than 20 chars..
each one is one of the 'smarter' folks..
we are playing 'heroes' no matter how you look at it.. the chars got more points then 60 - 66 (which is the avarage farmer)
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 11:26 AM |
| I'd have to say that CHA is Physical Attractiveness AND Social Capabilities. It's more the latter, but you can have a high CHA score based on the former more than the latter. Likewise, the former can lead to the latter. Though in most cases a CHA score comes from how good they are with people not from just how they look. |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 11:27 AM |
I like to state again, vives is not a hardcore D&D rules server. So really, those handbooks? Don't know them, never read them and never will.
I agree with Dens and others. If you actually have to begin wondering what PRECISELY an int of 15 would entail compared to an INT of 23. Forget it. Wasted energy. What will you do if you find two +3 stat enhancers? Suddenly Rp being smarter? Or keep on going on a similar path?
The Roleplay dictates your personality first and foremost, vives was designed for that. Your stats will reflect the capabilities of your character to a certain degree. They are there to calculate modifiers. If you want a strong char, make sure your str is your highest stat. Personally I don't care if that stat then is 18 making you as strong as an ox or 22 where you might be as strong as two oxen!
Whatever impression I get from a player is through their roleplay. And I sure as *beep* hope they will Rp based on a concept and a history and not the quantity of their stats.
Only instance where I see a possibility for the increase of a stat being of importance in vives is through Rp. Namely a long plot where a character obtains an item by a well established figure or mysterious being, this last person describing the effects of the item will ensure the char can attain a greater insight, as it would game technically grant a + to lore or wisdom. Then you add a context first through Rp, instead of letting the stats create one for you based on generalizations in a rulesbook.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 11:34 AM |
I RP my stats. It's really not that stupid a idea.
I work out a character concept. Basic things like class.
I work out their history, recent and long term.
I work out their current motivations.
I work out every small detail of their personality.
I work out what stats they will have based on their personality and history.
I work out what skills and feats they have based on the same thing.
I play the character according to their history and personality, which are reflected by their stats.
As opposed to:
I work out a history
I work out a personality
I dump all my points into combat stats, since having the right stats for your character concept doesn't matter- RPing stats is bad!
All IMHO,
-Barnas |
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Re: Roleplay Sugestions
Posted: 15 Nov 2003 07:50 PM |
Here's the problem with that, Barnas.
Say i want to be an intelligent fighter, but i also want to dual wield. Ugh...that means i'm automatically saddled with a str of 10 or 12? Horrible. Going by what you say, it makes it sound like it has to be a choice. Choose to have a good character and be a bad RP person, or choose to have a good RP character, but a horrible one when it comes to the game itself. That's really not fair.
Like i said. The stats are there to BALANCE gameplay so that everyone doesn't have 18's. They're not there to define who you are as an RPer. Should you have an int of 8 and act like a smarty? No, that would be a bit extreme. But if your stats are a decent average, then i say play how you want. It's not fair to say, i have to be dull and have a rather uninteresting personality because my charisma is only 10 and it's 10 because i don't have enough points to spread around over all the stats and still have a workable character build. |
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