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Familiar Death
Posted: 13 Jun 2005 09:08 AM |
Hi All,
Just a note to let you all know;
If your familiar dies and you lose enough xp to drop a level, you will drop a level.
Don't let your familiar die.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 13 Jun 2005 10:22 AM |
We should collect a bunch of Miscelleous essential information and stick it in one post in the essential information. Stuff that is important given the circumstanes, but not important enough to have it's own bold print at the top of some forum....
This would be a one of many good things to stick in there.
Along with the dropping stuff in the ooc lounge...
Or spell components required to scribe certain scrolls *grins*
Just a few thoughts.. I bet we could whip up a bunch of Vives stuff that could be important enough for this list. |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 13 Jun 2005 11:02 AM |
Post stuff in here and I will copy out the relevant stuff and post it on the essential info forum.
What scrolls need components and what components do they need? |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 13 Jun 2005 12:50 PM |
True Seeing
Undeath to Death
Timestop
Are the ones I know off hand. True seeing needs dragon blood, but I'm not sure what the others need. |
Juylina Komthya | Portrait - Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 13 Jun 2005 07:48 PM |
| I think they are all Dragon Blood actually. |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 13 Jun 2005 07:59 PM |
Petrification, the transformation from flesh to stone, in Vives, is now permanent
Also, since you are technically still alive while petrified, you cannot respawn. |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 13 Jun 2005 08:04 PM |
Hey, that will teach me to come up with an idea without doing my HW first...
HERE is a thread just like the one I suggested.
Yeah
Heck.. it even has some of the suggestions I ... suggested.
*Feels even MORE stupid than he did a few days ago* |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 13 Jun 2005 10:40 PM |
Petrification, the transformation from flesh to stone, in Vives, is now permanent
Also, since you are technically still alive while petrified, you cannot respawn.
What are you supposed to do in this case? I know this happened to me when I was first exploring the world. I can't remember what got me out, maybe a server reset? I do remember somehow getting to the ooc area though (while still a statue).
Also, what is the Staff opinion on using PvP to get someone out of petrification? To me that seem quite explot-ish. |
Juylina Komthya | Portrait - Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 14 Jun 2005 03:05 AM |
Hey, that will teach me to come up with an idea without doing my HW first...
That's fine Veran, I'd forgotten that was there too!
I can add some of this stuff to that other thread when we've finished here
As far as PvP and petrifcation goes, I've seen players a few times RP chipping away at a PC to get rid of the effect. As long as it's RPed it's fine.
Sol |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 14 Jun 2005 03:13 AM |
Unfortunately, the way that nwn handles petrification is not really ideal for a PW.
Given the way it operates, we cannot adhere to the "more correct" pnp rules or else we would have to spend all our time watching out for people who are petrified.
So, "breaking people out of the stone encasing them" is fine (unless the other DM's tell me otherwise?)
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 14 Jun 2005 08:16 PM |
| So, just to get this straight, flesh to stone actually (for Vives) encases you in stone rather then completely turns your body into stone...it is more like the druid spell stone hold. |
Juylina Komthya | Portrait - Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 14 Jun 2005 09:07 PM |
sounds good.
it is either that or police everyone who gets stoned and then spend time finding ways to prevent it from happening.
no thanks.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 30 Nov 2005 08:30 PM |
Oh..and NOW I read this :(
it will sound a little noobish (which actualy I am), but
my favorite character in vives got petrified today (I know that is completely stupid to atack a medusa like that, but I was so confident that it would be a 1-hit-kill...)
is my 6th lvl druid gone forever??
PS: my wolves just ripped her in a thousand pieces but it was too late for me... :õ(
"The fate you make, is the only fate you deserve."
now this quote makes sense to me :) |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 30 Nov 2005 09:59 PM |
Up to you really.
If you decide that is so, then it is so.
If you decide to hit "respawn", then it is to you to decide how your character has their miraculous escape.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 30 Nov 2005 11:05 PM |
When you become petrified, the respawn option is not available, because, I guess, one is not necessarily dead yet, should a Stone to flesh spell be cast. Thus, our friend is not able to begin his life anew from the seven sisters.
Zoren, My advice is, wait for a reset, and log back on... the medusa will be back, and without your wolf around, she'll probably just kill you.
After dying for Real, you can hit the respawn button, eat the penalties, and continue your Druidic Trek.
*grins* |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 30 Nov 2005 11:10 PM |
Hey, that will teach me to come up with an idea without doing my HW first...
That's fine Veran, I'd forgotten that was there too!
I can add some of this stuff to that other thread when we've finished here
As far as PvP and petrifcation goes, I've seen players a few times RP chipping away at a PC to get rid of the effect. As long as it's RPed it's fine.
Sol
Oh, and we never added those important essential information facts to that thread. |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 30 Nov 2005 11:10 PM |
| Or try your best to survive it and escape unscratched ;) |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 01 Dec 2005 10:07 AM |
Ok, thanks Veran
I'll try that |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 24 Mar 2008 03:13 PM |
Hi All,
Just a note to let you all know;
If your familiar dies and you lose enough xp to drop a level, you will drop a level.
Don't let your familiar die.
- Paul
After having suffered from this yesterday, twice, I spent a good long time trying to find this tidbit on the forums.
So here's a *bump* for anyone else running a familiar.
****
Want to apologize to The Muse for exploding when Pest bit it in Carfax. Didn't mean to yell but it was a bit of a shock.
****
An XP hit is somewhat understandable, from an in character perspective. It's a magical beast linked to the mage.
But combined with the damage from the familiar's death means that the mage, in all likelihood, will die moments later.
In terms of game balance, I don't see why there's an XP penalty for losing something that they get as a part of their abilities. The fighter doesn't lose XP for getting a weapon sundered or disarmed. The druid doesn't lose XP for their Animal Friend dying. Etc.
If XP were a lot easier to come by I might not be complaining. *shrugs* Your world, your rules. I play here because I like the world, so no biggie.
If the level loss were removed it would be easier to swallow.
Thanks for listening.
/rant |
Ktan - Warrior-Shaman of the Black Cat Clan |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 26 Mar 2008 10:42 AM |
I agree with this. In 3.5 D&D spellcasters get a DC 15 fortitude save to half an xp loss of 200xp per level. A familiar that dies also can't be replaced for a year and a day (but can be resurected in the same way as a Player Character).
Druids who's animal companions die don't loose xp.
In PnP Familiars don't tend to be used in combat, and as a consequence don't tend to die. However because spellcasters in NwN can only have one summoned creature at a time (and perhaps also because of the absence of a 'five foot step' rule) familiars are often pressed into service as (lets face it) meatsheilds.
I don't think its fair that wizards should suffer xp. penalties for using this tactic. I concede that it is in most cases poor RP for a character to treat a part of their soul as an expendable minion, but from a tactical point of view I think they should have this option as NwN deprives them of many of their more subtle strategies (suggestion, major image etc).
Of course, there are other ways of working round it...
[Yes, I am still watching the forums but I'm trying not to rock the boat too much. ] |
"Absolute precision buys the freedom to dream meaningfully." - Donal O' Shea: The Poincaré Conjecture. |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 26 Mar 2008 11:16 AM |
For the first 6 levels of my character's career I had a Panther for a familiar. Not because I COULD use it as a meatshield but because it seemed apt for the character's origin from the Plains (still haven't visited the plains since I hear they are a bear but it made sense from what I read in the PHB).
I switched to a different familiar, a Pixie named Pest, as a result of our experiences in game since coming back to the server. Two meat heads need something that can remove traps for them on occasion and be somewhat smart for them (nice INT on those critters).
So the new familiar isn't intended for combat (though she can) but I accepted the risk of her handling traps (her original death was from missing a search check on a trap). She roams in stealth mode to find them and then returns to the party when she's cleared an area. If I could summon/unsummon her unlimitedly she'd be in her pocket or where ever 90% or more of the time as most would in PnP.
The second incident was an accident caused by the spawns from a DM who spawned the skels near us and Pest flew in asap to attack. Which by the time I could react she was already dead and I was soon to follow. The only reason she was out was to unlock a door or two at Fat Stan's AFTER Ktan had completely cleared it. My initial anger at the incident was from the surprise of it and the second level lost to Familiar Death in the same day. So I again apologize to the DM for my quick DM channel outburst.
I know it's a little late in the life of NWN and the server to ask for changes and such so I was simply hoping to discuss the subject. Thank you, Frimble for your response.
Believe me, I am much more careful with her now (assuming I use her really at all until I have enough XP to support her demise). |
Ktan - Warrior-Shaman of the Black Cat Clan |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 28 Mar 2008 02:48 PM |
I switched to a different familiar, a Pixie named Pest, as a result of our experiences in game since coming back to the server. Two meat heads need something that can remove traps for them on occasion and be somewhat smart for them (nice INT on those critters).
So the new familiar isn't intended for combat (though she can) but I accepted the risk of her handling traps (her original death was from missing a search check on a trap). She roams in stealth mode to find them and then returns to the party when she's cleared an area. If I could summon/unsummon her unlimitedly she'd be in her pocket or where ever 90% or more of the time as most would in PnP.
The PnP alternative to this is to cast detect traps, then summon a monster on the pressure plate, levitate a brick past the arcane eye or (my personal favorite) suggest to an NPC that it would be a good idea to open the door. Some of this is possible in NwN but it requires the use of spells of higher level (some PnP traps can be foiled with a cantrip).
The issue is very much the same, familiars in NwN constitute more of a spellcasters assets (and make worse decisions) than they do in PnP. |
"Absolute precision buys the freedom to dream meaningfully." - Donal O' Shea: The Poincaré Conjecture. |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 28 Mar 2008 06:08 PM |
The problem with Vives - as always I think - is that it is built on NWN. We have this environment that you can delve into as deep as you wish to, and write novels about your characters - but its dependent on a video game engine.
So you have expectations for Vives that are as high as they would be for a PnP experience and yet problem solving is restricted to the same old point and click as all video games are.
With something like a familiar, it is real easy to forget that those toons have a lame AI. Sometimes I make the mistake of believing that they are as intelligent as their character should be. |
Famous last words:
Mykal> it's my new wireless router.
* > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout)
Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m.....
* > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat) |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 12:09 PM |
This is also true. Issues of this kind are more often than not down to the limitations of the software. Considering how familiar death should be handled is really making the best of a bad job, as ideally it should only happen in order to add to the narrative.
The same could also be said for character death but that is a more complicated issue. |
"Absolute precision buys the freedom to dream meaningfully." - Donal O' Shea: The Poincaré Conjecture. |
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Re: Familiar Death
Posted: 04 Jun 2008 01:14 PM |
Also, nwn familiars are far, far, far more powerful than pnp familiars or nwn2 familiars.
With the benefits come the responsibilities. The 500 xp loss for a familiar death is very little compared to how much xp the familiar can help you gain.
(Vives2 will be difference because the familiars will be different)
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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