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Money in Vives
Posted: 18 Aug 2003 04:45 AM |
I am noticing that it seems that a number of people have a lot of money. I don't have a lot, but i have never been 'short' on coins. Of course, after you buy your initial weapon, armor and a few items of clothing, is there really anything for you to spend your money on? I'm kinda getting the feeling that right now, money has little to zero impact on gameplay. I'm not sure if this is intended, or just a side effect of the majority of the efforts going into other areas of production. In any case, I wish (this is after all , a wishlist forum) for more ways to spend our hard earned cash, in a way that would both provide the player with some noticeable benifitial item or service, as well as keep down the overall wealth level of all the players. Some ideas:
Ressurection scrolls: make them cost a ton. Who wouldn't rather pay a ton of gold than lose any xp?
Healing potions and kits: I seem to find a lot of cure critical wounds potions in barrels. I now have over 10 of them in my inventory. Why not reduce the number of these found, and sell them from a vendor, again for a hefty chunk of change.
other potions: cat's grace, fox's cunning, bulls strength would all be handy for crafters.
other magic items: bags of holding come to mind. These would be super valuable as I'm sure just about everyone would like one. Sell them somewhere for a lot of coin.
These are just some ideas. Perhaps this has already been discussed and I'm a bit late getting up to bat, but if not, then I'd be interested to hear what everyone else thinks about this.
Pokeundi |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 18 Aug 2003 05:01 AM |
| I'd like to see a casino. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 18 Aug 2003 06:19 AM |
>> other magic items: bags of holding come to mind. These would be super valuable as I'm sure just about everyone would like one. Sell them somewhere for a lot of coin.
as much as I know.. they -are- IG.. but given by DMs.. and if you wanna get them just to sell them... =P
anyway I was thinking a bit, and had an idea about taxes..
I will open a new thread about it tho..
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 19 Aug 2003 10:01 AM |
"Ressurection scrolls: make them cost a ton. Who wouldn't rather pay a ton of gold than lose any xp?
Healing potions and kits: I seem to find a lot of cure critical wounds potions in barrels. I now have over 10 of them in my inventory. Why not reduce the number of these found, and sell them from a vendor, again for a hefty chunk of change. "
Before I defected to Vives, I was on Nordock.
Nordock has SEVERE issues in this department. Res scrolls cost well above stupid levels. To ask a priest to raise one of your comrades was 12000GP. Healing kits were non-existant to buy. That, and Nordock has a hefty 20% experience penalty for every time you die.
"Ah!" cried my friends, "but you can make so much money on trading skills! Anyone can afford them then!"
However, I did not want do to trading skills. I did not fancy sitting there for hours and hours and hours on end, crafting away, so I could get maybe 1K towards the 5k needed for a single scroll. And probably die walking from A to B and losing 20% EXP from doing so.
I think that having high prices for healing stuff is going to end in forced RP - people will have to go out money hunting for healing stuff. And may well end up dying and losing the very thing they're trying to preserve.
Regarding the other suggestions, yup, there does need to be more to spend money on. Bags of holding - DEFINITELY. I'm finding that to avoid the huge money hit when I die, I'm carrying around items, not gold More potions, yup, and I'd say a few more low-level scrolls for wizards/sorcerers/rogues :) |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 19 Aug 2003 11:17 AM |
Well here's 2 (considering what I'm about to say, probably unwanted) cents...
I'm not convinced that bags of holding should be "buyable". These are supposed to be extremely rare, highly prized items.
I'd suggest, as an alternative, making craftable magic bags, with, say, up to 60% weight reduction. Reserve the bags of holding for DM-only items. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 19 Aug 2003 11:28 AM |
I completely agree with ya there...
(I'm not convinced that bags of holding should be "buyable". These are supposed to be extremely rare, highly prized items. )
but all the +3 stuff should also be extremely rare..
and the +2 are suposed to be rare as well..
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 19 Aug 2003 12:07 PM |
but all the +3 stuff should also be extremely rare..
and the +2 are suposed to be rare as well..
It seems to me the only +2/+3 stuffs floating around are the ones people don't want... dire-maces, double axes, double-swords... I have yet to see a +2/+3 rapier/scimitar/longsword/shortsword on 'popular availability'.
--
It is my personal wish to not see people walking about jingling millions (or tens of thousands) of gold pieces - for sake of realism, but it is also against my wish to see you folks has to scramble and 'work' for your needs. Let me restate the obvious: Vives is not a MMORPG where the emphasis is on gold/items. I'd like to see you folks just having fun without having to spend hours upon hours crafting.
If something buyable directly contributes an advantage to gameplay mechanics, players will be (or at least, will feel) obliged to get at it. I would prefer to see gold being spendable on non-mechanics related issues, so players have the freedom in choosing to not 'working' and still don't feel 'at a loss'. I think Arathon is very wise in this department by providing a variety of 'high-end clothing' that costs alot but does not affect gameplay.
Lastly, I would point out that there are different styles of players out there. There are players who enjoy treasure hunting and crafting, whose characters -will- end up with alot of gold; and there are players that don't care about these things, and their characters can barely make ends meet. It is not fair to force the latter to conform with the former. There will never be a forced need to craft or 'loot' in Vives, I hope.
It is perhaps our fundamental doctrine that the fun lies in mingling, not mining. |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 19 Aug 2003 12:34 PM |
well, Aria.. that's cuz ppl keep them...
i havent seen rapiers and not many longswords.. but i saw scimiters and short swords... and daggers and all types of axes.. and hammers.. and short bows..
(I had a about 3 daggers +3.. and i think i still got some of them.. if not i gonna throw em away.. )
wierd thing is i barely see +1 armors.. only +2 and more than +2 i see +3..
when weapons goes from many +1's to less but still a lot +3..
and allright about the gold i'll go find a trash can... but i had about 300k before selling stuff to humbart.. from selling items to the 'normal' marchents... which is a lot as well.. and brings me to my point again.. the items quanitities need to be decreased..
Dens - gonna dump some gold
p.s. i sold my nice set of clothing (which weighed about 15 lbs) so i can run again.. watch your pockets ;) |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 19 Aug 2003 06:26 PM |
| Personally I would love to see a player based ecnomy basically its up to the players to craft and concoct potions and the likes to make money and gold make treasure harder to come by and less depented on npcs or monsters so basically players can become rich merchant and also it might help to establish in a rp sense a class system |
"...Another day passes and I slip further from reality..." |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 19 Aug 2003 07:58 PM |
Personally I would love to see a player based ecnomy basically its up to the players to craft and concoct potions and the likes to make money and gold make treasure harder to come by and less depented on npcs or monsters so basically players can become rich merchant and also it might help to establish in a rp sense a class system
I hope it won't end up being a 'who-repeats-clicking-more-than-others-race'. But then, developing these aspects and seeing their consequences need a healthy population, and players that have the inclinations to become merchants. We should maybe wait, see, and adjust as our launching status changes. |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 04 Oct 2003 02:55 AM |
this is not quite a solution to the problem at hand, but it may at least help out a bit on the excessive cash on some characters. why not simply reduce the amount of gold found on 'remains' and in chests and such? i couldnt even say how many kobolds were killed walking around with 100gp and upwards. i recall on one outing alone i only fought kobolds (too weak for anything else) and i returned home 3000gp richer. and this was in lose coin only, i still had not sold my spoils.
which brings me to my other suggestion, reducing the return on what merchants offer for goods. with the current randomness of 'finding' relatively high magical items it is not difficult at all for just anyone to climb themselves to riches. (there was a time when i carried 12 amulets of protection +3. which i eventually sold and spent the money trying on every dress at aramani's and versuci's). the other solution to this would be as mentioned above, to reduce the likelyhood of finding highly valuable items.
well, i'll end my rant here.
thanks for listening,
-SpaciousQ |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 04 Oct 2003 04:33 AM |
| Actually, I like the "make ends meet" thing. I'm a person that has only done crafting in one server, for a short period of time. I hated it. It was a waste of my valuble time when I could be out slaying annoying Kender (this was an elf). And the make ends meet thing is nice and it keeps the game new and fresh. I find that with all this loose gold, it gets kind of boring not needing to worry about my spending habits. |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 05 Oct 2003 05:54 AM |
As it is now (possible rant coming on) we seem to suffer from quite the peculiar problem.
Making cash, or finding it for that matter, is pretty easy, while spending the cash on things you want is pretty tough. The motivation to spend time crafting, other then wanting to be a merchant, for most players would be for the xp and the items they reap from their efforts.
So again money plays no part. It makes me believe money on vives is pretty worthless since there is not much you can do with it. The supplies you need for crafting you have to find, only some you need to buy, for a low price.
Definitily we need to balance the stuff you find in what areas and also check the prices the merchants pay, as others said, you can accumulate cash quite easily by 'looting'. Whereas looting in the rural areas is generally looked upon and not liked by the guards, you can still loot those poor monsters out there for some sweet prizes. But the treasure-tables were being worked upon I believe, so that problem is dealt with.
Brings me to an idea I had, concerning crafting. Indeed sometimes you need a martial weapon, not everyone can use that. Go buy ore from a miner is the suggestion. Understandable, only problem is the playerbase being not so extensive yet that you have miners for the picking. So, if we are striving for realism anyways, why not add Coorperations? Like a dwarven mining corperation, a merchant which will buy ore and raw material, generally the stuff useful for smiths. That way you generate a point where people may expect (after locating it or hearing about it) to acquire resources for their craft. The only way the corporation will get more goods, is if players sell to it.
Naturally all for reasonable prices, the merchant will make a small profit, that way a miner can stick to mining, someone who needs raw materials does not need to stay up till 4 am trying to contact that one miner person and everyone can happily continue their role as miner or smithy. Makes it easier to distinguish as well between different jobs/occupations. Not to mention you dont have to check every merchant on vives just to see if one of them carries ore or metal. Or would you really sell your ore quantities to a jeweller?
We already have guildhouses, why not add a few NPC's to flesh out this coorperation thought? It will mean a far smoother flow of things concerning crafting. The whole idea of letting players bargain with players seems ok, but it is very very unpractical if there is no basis to work from. Think about it, creating coorperations wont cause any harm, I'd say it even adds to the Rp environment. And we could even later, when more players excel in crafting or acquisition of materials, add PC's to guilds to achieve the same effect, yet more realistic than it is now.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 05 Oct 2003 01:43 PM |
Along those lines, is it possible to program the merchants to have quasi-infinite items? By this I mean unstackable items which appear only once but have a numerical limit stored. Then smiths could sell ingots to the merchant; only one would appear in inventory and a limited number would be for sale after which the item would disappear from the display. This would facilitate the exchange described above. The alternative is to have Tinkerers scour the markets for cheap goods made of the desired metal, and melt them down. Gnora Gnombody has done this. It certainly uses up the cash, I can say that.
You can also use up quite a bit of cash on Halfling Bandages. :)
Thinking further, perhaps a conversation-based merchant for intermediate materials would work best. The materials would always be listed, but with the available amounts which would sometimes be zero. I think the Craftable Merchants scripting does this. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 05 Oct 2003 03:55 PM |
| I think healing kits and potions SHOULD cost alot of money. Having to rely on others for healing spells kind of corces people to work together more than apart. I would also like to have a resting system that you gain a % of you max hp back dependant on your constitution, And also i dont think that anyone should be able to heal all the way up with a single rest. Yeah, this makes things a bit harder but vives is realy leanient on deaths, most of the time death eatier takes you back to the start xp of 1 level back (you from levle 9 to level 8 with no progress) or its just plain old permanent and you have to start all over again. Being able to quaff potion over and over again is just goofy to me. Maybee an alternative is that you can use one potion per 5 minutes?. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 05 Oct 2003 04:47 PM |
| Trust me, Hades, Vives is most definitely not lenient on death. In fact, the penalty for death here is really quite harsh. The results of repeated deaths will most likely leave you wtih a character that cannot advance, due to the fact that while you lose XP from dying, the XP you get for killing things and exploring, etc is lost forever. It doesn't reset, and you can't get that XP back. Ask around, you'll find out that dying is definitely not a hobby you want to take up in Vives. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 05 Oct 2003 05:26 PM |
| Loli grimaces and gently rubs the permanent scars from where the Big Bird attacked her. :) |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 06 Oct 2003 05:39 AM |
well,
about crafted items -
maybe these should only be sellable for low price (not more then 100gp or so) but could be sellable for higher prices to special marchents, i mean.. the blacksmith at Midor would pay 5x amount of gold while billybob will pay x for the same crafted sword.
and the blacksmith would use the sword for its metal - smelt it, so it will disapear from the marchent chest, but the cost reduce will stay the same.
so as people will sell him tons of crafted metals he will just pay really low amounts of cash,
or maybe he can even stop buying them at a point?
(and this will have a 10% chance to reset every server reset [so it should be reset randomly, but within the range of about 5 days] - cuz at some point he will ran out of metal and will need the crafted goods again)
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 06 Oct 2003 11:03 AM |
Just remember that there are some people who like to come onto this server purely to roleplay, rather than carry out mass-crafting, levelling, looting etc. Which means that such people don't have these 'gluts of money' you people are talking about to buy healing kits and stuff. Not everyone comes onto Vives to make money and items, I, for one, come on to purely roleplay; otherwise I'd be a heck of a higher level now I think Don't penalise those of us who don't want to go looting by bumping up the prices of the already elusive healing items. |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 06 Oct 2003 01:01 PM |
well, when thinking about it -
ppl that doesnt work for living (if it is either by crafting/looting/trading/ w/e) shouldnt have money for stuff,
I mean.. even those that are there for RP only.. having a char that do nothing beside going around means that char doesnt have money to buy food/clothes/ w/e and of course not enough money for a metal sword or a crafted armor..
so from one side, highering prices, or giving less 'treasure' will just encourage ppl to loot and this is something that no one want to encourage, because beside those that will pick up fully earned treasure there are those that will go into NPCs' houses and steall all they can.. or something like that..
also.. making people choose some kind of a job might be better, -but- from this side we dont want to -make- ppl craft 24/7.
so I duno.. cuz no one said anything about it yet.. what do you think? should the 'RP only' players have a living 'n kicking chars, or should they start finding ways to get money?
and if sticking to this, I think there should be 'donation boxes'
at the temples or something,
and people will be able to insert how many items they want, (and this will be presistant) and other players, can take one item per reset (maybe with higher then 10k networth they cant take anything or something) - while paladins and clerics can take rations all the time.
again - an idea that should be polished, but this might be nice. and esepcially neat for rping clerics/paladins that will donate their stuff to their temples (as it should be)
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 06 Oct 2003 03:00 PM |
well, when thinking about it -
ppl that doesnt work for living (if it is either by crafting/looting/trading/ w/e) shouldnt have money for stuff,
I'd agree with that, of course. But again, I would say that those of us who do want to RP good old wandering vagabonds who don't want to steal stuff, who are just too frail to go around looting/killing monsters and who belong to players who see no fun in repeatedly clicking a button 24/7, should be catered for. After all, Vives is a roleplaying server, not a 'see how much money/EXP you can get so you can do X/buy X/beat X'. The only problem is, that unless there are DM's on, there's no EXP reward for simply kicking back and roleplaying. Even then, the DM has to be watching you. There needs to be some reward for people who just want to RP and don't have the time/inclination to gather GP/XP when they log on. The tiniest quest on Vives always involves having to kill something...though, sadly, I can't see what else you could implement apart from kill/craft stuff quests...
also.. making people choose some kind of a job might be better, -but- from this side we dont want to -make- ppl craft 24/7.
My point exactly.
so I duno.. cuz no one said anything about it yet.. what do you think? should the 'RP only' players have a living 'n kicking chars, or should they start finding ways to get money?
You'll, um, have to explain the 'living 'n kicking' part of that to meAnd well, I don't care so much about gathering money in any server, it all epends on how important that money IS. After all, how much is there to buy in Vives, seeing that I STILL don't know where to buy healing kits/potions/res scrolls?
while paladins and clerics can take rations all the time.
again - an idea that should be polished, but this might be nice. and esepcially neat for rping clerics/paladins that will donate their stuff to their temples (as it should be)
Now that would be pretty cool :) |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 06 Oct 2003 03:24 PM |
The bandages are in the <location censored>. I only found out this past weekend, although a lot of other people seem to have known for some time the way they talked about it. Basic bandages is all that are sold, but they are very useful even for whopping big warriors. You have to be able to get through the <censored>, one way or another, or get someone to go shopping for you. A non-combat-oriented character can get the first level just by visiting safe areas in Vives, BTW. A little crafting never hurt anyone, adds to the self-esteem of your character, and really doesn't require clicking 24/7. :)
Edit note: I removed the locations for this item, because it really shouldn't be posted here. Please do not post locations of items, resources, etc on the web site... it's meta.
--Landru |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Money in Vives
Posted: 07 Oct 2003 12:42 AM |
| Heheh..... the most ellusive of all items the Basic Bandages (and basic items in general). |
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Hidden Bandages
Posted: 07 Oct 2003 12:07 PM |
| Well, all right. But everyone is telling everyone else anyway, one way or another. It's kind of a basic supply. Is food and bedding supposed to be a mystery, too? :) |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Hidden Bandages
Posted: 07 Oct 2003 12:24 PM |
| Bah, I've noticed the same thing on the simple arrow. IS there a place to get them?! And if you want to do something about the RP XP w/o a DM, then all ya gotta do is.... Hmm, you could do an XP a letter, however there's lots of other things involved... All one would have to do is keep typing aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... There's a solution somewhere. I'll think about it in Bio. |
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