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Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:03 PM |
Ok, here goes, I shall try and be diplomatic.
There appears to be a grey area to me in terms of the problem of death. I have supported the new DM changes as they stand with regards to Cleric Resses because I do agree death has to be taken more seriously.
However, tonight, what in my mind was a very powerful party (hosting amongst others, two 19th level characters and a 21st level) died as a result of lag. Basically all the monsters were near the transition and 6 or so of us transitioned at similar times causing lag.
The DMs viewed the death as the "correct" way things should have happened, given that we were entering Gukathul's temple. Personally I disagree but that is beside the point. The question is what should be done about it.
Is it fair for a DM to say well the death would have happened that way anyway so the death stands? Or is it fair that a PC should be allowed to say "I think I could have taken them" and be given the raise?
Personally I think the answer to both questions is that they are both categorically unfair. Neither party should be allowed to theorise in those terms as its too subjective and the results too extreme.
At present however, we have to pick between one or the other and clearly the DMs should be entitled to make the call.
The problem with this, is in cases such as tonight, rightly or wrongly, this can lead to animosity. DMs have the unenviable task of making judgement calls which when it comes to death will always upset the PCs involved.
So is there a compromise?
My personal opinion is, that if there is a situation where there is a suggestion of lag, then the scene, as best as possible should be recreated and replayed. If the PCs die, then they have to live with that (and this would legitimise the DMs view). If they survive then they get to walk free.
Personally this will combat the "hypothetical" theorising as to what would or wouldnt have happend and moreover, the PCs can then only be unhappy at the death for what was their decision and not that of a DMs.
I know this will be a bit of a hassle but at least it is a compromise that will solve that grey area. What are the views of everyone else? |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:19 PM |
| I have to agree here, as i was there, i cast lots of protection spells and when in with other people and a powerfull summons, but when the screen loaded i had 10 hps left no summons and i was the only one alive, i clicked to run away and then to heal myself but got killed. Now I have died and alot of the time i agree with the dms when they say no you were playing badly and i go on with a respawn or wait for a cleric but in this instance the monsters were so close to the transtion door no one could get in without being repeatedly hit Calia had 212 hps before she went in and only 10 when the screen loaded for me to be able to move her. ohters were just dead when they got through. I dont have a problem with the extremly powerfull mosters that were put into the place but i do disagree with them being placed by the transition door so we had no chance of fighting them. The dms what the pcs to respect that the game cant handel the fact that there are lots of guards and archers at the front of Midor and we do but they have to do the same by not placing powerfull cretures by the transtition as the game cant handel it. This is not a flame but a personal opnion |
Its easy clinging to your moral high ground when you have everything, try it when you have nothing left.
Cain Angus |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:32 PM |
Generally I might be more open to agreeing with you, or at least giving some element of benefit of the doubt. In this case there was a lot more to it.
So the full story, as concisely as I can make it:
1) Last night Arcane persuaded my paladin, plus Coretta and Zach...to attack the temple of Gukathul. There were protestations made from the beginning, but none of us IC could let him go alone.
2) We received DM warnings from the moment we entered the temple. In the form of earthquakes and visual fcts. We asked Arcane to leave. He said he would go on alone. So we had to accompany him further. I died, as I fully knew I was going to. So did Arcane and Zach. Coretta fled and was left near death just outside the temple.
---my problems with the above were a lack of respect shown to the only temple of a God. A God that was fully awakened and angry and made this obvious. A lack of respect of possible consequences, both for self and for those you should care about, less powerful members of your own faith.
3) Arcane and I respawned. Zach did not. He chose to instead wait for a rescue.
---my problem with this, you do not wait to be rescued from the temple of Gukathul when he has been active in your death. Doing so shows no respect for death or the realism of the world. The only sensible thing to do in this situation is respawn.
((All of the above is what led to the situation tonight))
4) Arcane, having respawned, went to tell others that Zach was dead, and arranged a rescue mission. It's a bit of a grey area doing a respawn then rescue mission, but no big deal. But Arcane then, Im not sure why, went back to the temple by himself. And proceeded to wake the whole place up, eventually running back out from Gukathul's spawned creatures.
5) No more than 10 minutes later the rescue party turn up to attack the now fully awakened temple. Yes it would have been better if they had not suffered lag and nearly all died in the first room. But the simple fact is there were very experienced players there. They knew Gukathul had the corrupted tear still. And they had knowingly chosen to attack his -only- temple. This is the exact reason we made clear our policy on lag deaths beforehand. If it had been a different situation sure we might have considered options. But in this scenario, no absolutely not. Death was the result of IC decisions made...the manner of that death might not be ideal but given the circumstances there is no way a dm res could be given.
I'd like to quote a very relevant post regarding what happened tonight:
"Show respect for the world. At no time will your PC be so powerful that there is no danger that needs worry him/her. There are places in this world that it is -very- dangerous to invoke the anger of those who rule there. Awake Count Valinor in Maldovia, raid the temple of a god and invoke the wrath of its high priest, attract the hostility of one of the ancient dragons...all these things are extremely inadvisable and you should never have the attitude that you can do such and expect to survive the experience because you are so powerful." ((from player guidelines.))
---and yet people complained they were a very powerful party who -should- have been well able to survive. No, actually, against an awakened god they were not nearly powerful enough...nobody would be, thats the point. There was little or no respect shown on both occassions that the temple was attacked.
"And to make death be a little more respected. The penalties are there for a reason, and too much OOC effort is currently being put into avoiding those penalties. Death should matter! There have been a multitude of incidents even over the last few days that the DM team have been ironing this proposal out that makes it clear to us something has to be done." ((from the death in vives post))
---these are exactly the kind of incidents we mean, where death does not seem to matter to players, either before or after the event.
"If you go to an area that is dangerous and die due to lag or other RL reasons, then you will not be guaranteed a res."
---and that is what happened tonight, though again I wish the deaths had been fairer, there were only 4 monsters in the entrance.
Cheers,
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:42 PM |
3) Arcane and I respawned. Zach did not. He chose to instead wait for a rescue.
---my problem with this, you do not wait to be rescued from the temple of Gukathul when he has been active in your death. Doing so shows no respect for death or the realism of the world. The only sensible thing to do in this situation is respawn.
I refuse to respawn because a DM summoned overpowered monsters. I had to go to bed, is that such a crime? It was 3AM and I had school tommorow, I'm sorry real life cant allow me to play how you think is right, but it's more important for me. Having anything I could fight against, even if it will be difficult, would not in any way annoy me. But that was abuse what happened these two times, pure abuse. And frankly, I'd rather dump Zach and make an exact identical character, just because I refuse to suffer a penalty for a DM screwup, and yes, I call it a screwup.
Above all, this game is supposed to be fun, and -that- was not fun.
I could also simply wait untill there is a cleric on and no DMs logged, then what? Nothing would happen. Metagaming? Maybe, but at least it's better than this DM abuse.
I remember a previous time when Muradin, one of my characters, and Jand and another character went into the temple. It was -really- fun. The DM made sure there was nothing too powerful, since he is the one who led us to the temple, but also made sure we would have a terrible time getting out. And it was difficult indeed. Tons of zombies and other undead who almost killed Muradin and Jand several time. We survived it though, and if we wouldnt, I would not be upset because I knew we had a chance to survive.
It was fun, and it was RPed, and it was everything.
What happened at that time was ridiciulous. Many high-level characters left dead. Wrath of a god? Fine, make it fightable, after all, this is supposed to be fun. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:43 PM |
| You realize that sometimes, the heroes lose. That's life. |
My name is Byron Lorian....I am the Last Son |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:54 PM |
WA you say Vives is meant to be FUN above and beyond anything. No. Vives is not just meant to be a video game. It is not Diablo. RP is what comes above and beyond anything else here. A living, breathing, believable world. Where sometimes the heroes dont win. Where sometimes they make foolish decisions and as such are faced with insurmountable odds.
The first time, when Zach died, I was there. It was not a case of just loads of high level monsters being spawned. It was a case of warning after warning being ignored. Only in the final room of that level did it become impossible for us, when we had ignored every opportunity to turn back. And thus we all died. It was more than fair and reasonable.
Quite frankly your posts are hostile and it is absolutely clear you have little idea of what Vives is really intended to be about. I am sorry that is the case, but it will not change things so that we just make a vanilla world where everything goes the way you want it to.
Cheers,
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:54 PM |
You realize that sometimes, the heroes lose. That's life.
It's a game, and it's supposed to be fun. It's not life. Why didnt I have fun? When it's not fun, something is obviously wrong. That was the complete opposite of fun. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:54 PM |
Generally I might be more open to agreeing with you, or at least giving some element of benefit of the doubt. In this case there was a lot more to it.
The back story you give relates to an event that occured yesterday certainly without my knowledge and its unfair this should stand against those who only took part today.
---my problems with the above were a lack of respect shown to the only temple of a God. A God that was fully awakened and angry and made this obvious.
This argument might have more force, if as I posted else where, a DM event hadnt take a weaker party to the very same place.
Yes it would have been better if they had not suffered lag .... Death was the result of IC decisions made...
This is the very point I am making. IMO Lag caused the death, in the opinion of the DMs it would have happened anyway and that to me is the grey area which I think to avoid PC animosity and grumbling needs a compromise. Ok, it maybe that we would have died anyway, and it maybe that was the likely outcome, but we were never given a chance to do something about that.
The compromise addresses that very issue. You set the room up as it should have been and give the PCs a chance. At worse we would have had the chance to flee, realising the error of our bravery.
And finally to reiterate a point taking your reference:
"Show respect for the world. At no time will your PC be so powerful that there is no danger that needs worry him/her. There are places in this world that it is -very- dangerous to invoke the anger of those who rule there. Awake Count Valinor in Maldovia, raid the temple of a god and invoke the wrath of its high priest, ...."
If the DMs use this as a source of a quest then surely they cannot expect those same PCs not to use it as a source of their own. Either its too powerful or its not, irrespective of whether a DM is involved.
I'm sorry. In this case I am with the PCs. I have backed the DMs recently because I believe in their ethos. I can see what they are trying to achieve here but I believe they have applied it too rigidly, especially when a compromise is on the table.
What this appears to be is a situation where one PC decided not to respawn but wait for a raise and the DMs decided that was inappropriate. Regardless of the correctness of that decision it is not fair to kill off several other PCs to ensure it cannot be done. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:57 PM |
Quite frankly your posts are hostile and it is absolutely clear you have little idea of what Vives is really intended to be about. I am sorry that is the case, but it will not change things so that we just make a vanilla world where everything goes the way you want it to.
Then there is no point to this, is there? No one here plays the server for any other reason than to have -fun-. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. I RP for fun, yes, thats why I RP. Is there any other reason you RP?
It's you misunderstanding my point, really. But as I said, there is no point to an arguement as I see it now. Thank you for the terrible gaming experience I have just had. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 04:59 PM |
The back story you give relates to an event that occured yesterday certainly without my knowledge and its unfair this should stand against those who only took part today.
No my back story ensures that all know exactly what led up to this. There is no implication you did something wrong as a result of this...but some players -did- make mistakes.
This argument might have more force, if as I posted else where, a DM event hadnt take a weaker party to the very same place.
Generally speaking DM's dont have to explain themselves for how the world works. But this time I will. Ask around IC what Gukathul was up to on Halloween, the event you mention. Do you not think that with the entire world crawling with undead, and Aros chasing him, he might not have been a little distracted?
Players dont get to dictate how or in what manner a god will react in. Both DM's discussed tonights events at length. And everything they did was a very appropriate response.
Cheers,
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:04 PM |
What this appears to be is a situation where one PC decided not to respawn but wait for a raise and the DMs decided that was inappropriate. Regardless of the correctness of that decision it is not fair to kill off several other PCs to ensure it cannot be done.
Actually, that is completely wrong.
There was a way to waltz in there and waltz out. Well within your capabilities of such a powerful group.
Instead, you chose the way to fight against odds not in your favour and them claim foul.
What was your point again? |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:09 PM |
What this appears to be is a situation where one PC decided not to respawn but wait for a raise and the DMs decided that was inappropriate. Regardless of the correctness of that decision it is not fair to kill off several other PCs to ensure it cannot be done.
Actually, that is completely wrong.
There was a way to waltz in there and waltz out. Well within your capabilities of such a powerful group.
Instead, you chose the way to fight against odds not in your favour and them claim foul.
What was your point again?
This is simply ridiciulous. Explain to me in what manner there was the option of entering and leaving? You also forget the lag factor, where to characters died before they could do anything about the matter. Frankly, as Akril said it, that is how I see it as well.
I would rather wait for a time when there is no DM on, and get a cleric to raise me. Because I will definately wont respawn, not because I dont respect death or any other attack you might want to make on me. It's because my ego is too big to let me accept this. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:11 PM |
How on earth was there ever a right way when I went in there, protected as best I could and as soon as I went back in (with no monsters near me) I froze.
That is something totally beyound my control.
Sirac for the reasons I promised in an earlier conversation I will not engage you in the arguments you raised as it would be unfair to you to do so and disrespectful to you as a DM.
To clarify my point, which I have tried to make on both these posts, I am not attacking the legitimacy of the DMs arguments. What I am saying is that because lag was what factually caused the death of at least two of the PCs, the hypothetical analysis of what would have happened anyway is going to cause problems.
Now whilst I agree the DMs should have the ultimate say if the factual lag death cannot be reconciled with the hypothetical outcome death, I do not think that is the only option.
In short, i fail to see what possible draw backs there are to recreating the scene when there is no lag and letting the PCs make decisions. If those decisions then factually lead to the deaths you hypothesise then the PCs would have to accept it in good grace.
So please, once more, can I ask you to look at the compromise I have proposed which to me solves all eventualities. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:19 PM |
This is simply ridiciulous. Explain to me in what manner there was the option of entering and leaving? You also forget the lag factor, where to characters died before they could do anything about the matter. Frankly, as Akril said it, that is how I see it as well.
I will leave it for Carlton to explain it to you.
As for Akril, he made it out and yet chose to go back in. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:23 PM |
How on earth was there ever a right way when I went in there, protected as best I could and as soon as I went back in (with no monsters near me) I froze.
That is something totally beyound my control.
Sirac for the reasons I promised in an earlier conversation I will not engage you in the arguments you raised as it would be unfair to you to do so and disrespectful to you as a DM.
To clarify my point, which I have tried to make on both these posts, I am not attacking the legitimacy of the DMs arguments. What I am saying is that because lag was what factually caused the death of at least two of the PCs, the hypothetical analysis of what would have happened anyway is going to cause problems.
Now whilst I agree the DMs should have the ultimate say if the factual lag death cannot be reconciled with the hypothetical outcome death, I do not think that is the only option.
In short, i fail to see what possible draw backs there are to recreating the scene when there is no lag and letting the PCs make decisions. If those decisions then factually lead to the deaths you hypothesise then the PCs would have to accept it in good grace.
So please, once more, can I ask you to look at the compromise I have proposed which to me solves all eventualities.
I completely join in this request. And as I said already two times, there were reasons I made no complaint about the first time when Zach died. The risks were obvious, and though I find the foes we fought unfair towards the players, I would not argue with any DMs on that matter.
The second time was almost entirely outside my control, and in fact, it looked like it was really an attempt to kill off PCs so they wont raise Zach. Trent and Arcane went into the temple, saw it was safe, and called a cleric. The temple was -safe- when they came in, and fought, and even stayed a while. When they return with a cleric, and Zach was really not important at that point, and the only goal was to raise those who died at the entrance, suddenly the doors open and hoards of monsters come. When they came to save Zach in the first place, as I said, I had no control over what happened, and appearantly they didnt as well.
There was lag, and while we cant expect you to clear matters up in cases of lag, this event had big DM intervention, and if the possible decisions were ruined by lag - then I also must say I think a compromise would be the best solution, and would make everyone happy no matter what way it goes. Frankly, after the first strong foe I saw, I would not continue the deed myself, of course I was also led to believe that if we managed to kill it, then it's safe now. Another warning before a huge number of murderous monsters could have really helped. I ignore the first time with Zach and Arcane and the others, because while I have my objections to some things, it was generally fine. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:23 PM |
As I pointed out in the other thread, I was the first one in and the others hadnt transitioned with me.
I killed most of the things in the room and left because the others were still outside.
We then cross transitioned which is just the unfortunate thing about NWN and doors.
Beside that, RPwise I would hardly have simply left my party behind. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:25 PM |
As for Akril, he made it out and yet chose to go back in.
Yup, because the first time he managed to defeat them, and the second time could have as well. This is hypothetical, because there was lag. What he, and now I request, is some compromise for the situation. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:51 PM |
This is simply ridiciulous. Explain to me in what manner there was the option of entering and leaving? You also forget the lag factor, where to characters died before they could do anything about the matter. Frankly, as Akril said it, that is how I see it as well.
I will say it if PD wont. Greater Sanctuary. That simple. The best solution is not always to fight but just get in and out causing as little disturbance as possible. Instead you launched an all out assault on Gukathul's stronghold. There are only 2 or 3 such places in the entirety of Vives I would see the kind of overpowered response that you were met with as appropriate. This is definitely one of them.
I would rather wait for a time when there is no DM on, and get a cleric to raise me. Because I will definately wont respawn, not because I dont respect death or any other attack you might want to make on me. It's because my ego is too big to let me accept this.
WA, I suggest you think very carefully about the tone and content of your posts in future, flame forum or not. DM's here have thick skins, but still you went very near the mark at times. And the above...!? *shakes head in disbelief*
This is my last post for tonight. Good night all.
Cheers,
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:52 PM |
well, I'll pitch in now, but just a little.
A) Yup, we never should have been down there. I was there as Coretta, and I agree that we had ample warning...enough that I knew I was going to die. Luckily, being a cleric, I got to stand back which gave me enough time to run for it.
B) Cory was the one who spread the news around about Zach's death. So...Arcane did not respawn and then spread death news, just to clear that up.
C) I wasn't with the first high level party today who died. I did go into the temple, and I did expect for what had happened to happen. Even without the recent activity around the temple with the tears....the time that they have gone before Guk obviously knew they were there. It was not unreasonable to expect masses waiting to protect a temple. And...OOC-wise, my eldest char Macha still refuses to go there from sometime in March. Due to the unpredictability of the attention of the God who it belongs to, among other things. I wasn't clever enough to come up with a good IC reason not to go. I can think of a few now, but... *grins*
D) I completely support the DMs in their decision. I went to the temple of Gukathul. I went to the temple of Gukathul more than once. More than once in a week, even. There are really nasty things there (even worse than DM's - note the tongue in cheek, please). I died. Cory will be recovering long into the near future, and trust me that she will be forevermore terrified of even the mention of the Gods name. Terror, even....
E) I won't jump in on lag death, etc. in this specific situation except to say I wasn't there, but I've died to lag death before. It's not fun, but it happens. I think that with some of the other predicatable things within the world that should be completely unpredictable (would all the monsters really stand in the same spots with the same numbers all the time?), it balances itself out. |
Trishy
Macha Sparrowsong - Song is my life
Coretta Alandar - Cleric of Midoran
Dekla Debena - whatever
Not all people who wander are lost.
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 05:59 PM |
| my point was that i didnt even have a chance to cast one spell before i was dead, i have been there before and have never seen anything near as powerfull in this temple, if we had had the warning the other party had i would have gone in with a greater sancuary spell on but Calia was dead after one click of the movment tool |
Its easy clinging to your moral high ground when you have everything, try it when you have nothing left.
Cain Angus |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 06:05 PM |
Trishy I agreed with you up until this point. (My emphasis added)
E) I won't jump in on lag death, etc. in this specific situation except to say I wasn't there, but I've died to lag death before. It's not fun, but it happens. I think that with some of the other predicatable things within the world that should be completely unpredictable (would all the monsters really stand in the same spots with the same numbers all the time?), it balances itself out.
It shouldnt happen. Lag should not be a part of any consideration when it comes to death. When lag happens the considerations need to be taken aside and dealt with differently.
If you dont you get what happened tonight.
There are only two things for consideration as far as Im concerned.
1) What is wrong with the compromise I proposed for these cases;
and 2) Who had fun tonight as a result of this incident.
Vives has done so well and is truly becoming something that IMO cannot be rivaled. This however, only undermines that. I truly see no reason for such a hard line.
And Sirac, whilst I agree that WA maybe looking to solutions that you might not favour, rightly or wrongly, that is what happens when people are faced with unjust decisions they can do nothing about. They try and buck the system.
As for the Greater Sanctuary, since only one of us could cast it, thats a little over simplistic and personally given how many things seems to have true seeing, thats not exactly full proof enough to warrant sending in one cleric. Plus what happens to the person whose raised!!!
Lastly, I appreciate never should a person think they are above danger. But at the same time there is a limit to that. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 06:14 PM |
It shouldnt happen. Lag should not be a part of any consideration when it comes to death. When lag happens the considerations need to be taken aside and dealt with differently.
I'll say it, because I don't expect the DM's will, nor should they have to How do we know tha tlag was the true cause? If raises were given out everytime a death occured and someone shouted "LAG!" then I daresay abuses would be rampant.
1) What is wrong with the compromise I proposed for these cases;
A Presistant World is not a labratory enviroment. You can not accurately recreate the situation that occured, you can only approximate it. That being said, you may as well go with your previous option of the PC's saying "Yeah, I think I could take that."
The last time I played a game that allowed "take backs" I was in elementary school. (gold mulligans not withstanding.)
2) Who had fun tonight as a result of this incident.
The heroes lost, and that's never fun. TIme to pick yourself up, dust youself of, lick your wounds and learn to live another day. If lag is bad on the server, those are the times I usually find a nice corner to roleplay in. Or I log off and go play a single player game. Or write, or read a book...you get the idea.
Lag is a part of this enviroment. It needs to be considered, even if it is OOC, because it exists.
I truly see no reason for such a hard line.
Appeasement is never a good options, IMO. I thought the British learned that already
(bad analogy, I know, but I couldn't resist)
-Byron |
My name is Byron Lorian....I am the Last Son |
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Re: Lag Death
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 06:20 PM |
Ok I figured this "incident" would cause some writing in the forums so here goes my 2 cents:
I was in the party and I died, although I did manage to get out of the temple. I died partly due to lag but I don't think that matters, nobody should complain about that. It's part of this game, sometimes the lag is in your favor, sometimes not. I suck it up so to speak :)
About the spawns; I don't think any monsters that the DMs can spawn are actually "wrong". Any DM can spawn any monster they want on me at any given time, and I mean that. All I am asking for is that they don't abuse certain "game exploits" against the players, but I've only seen that happen once. What I do think the DMs should learn though is to not have any creature spawn near a door/transition, it is almost a guaranteed frustration for any party. I don't see any "hinderance to RP" by spawning monsters a room or two away, and it will eliminate alot of these types of discussions in the future.
That's all.
MrPink aka Arawen |
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Greater Sanctuary
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 06:25 PM |
For those unfamiliar with the properties of greater sanctuary...
1/ It lasts 1 hour per level.
in game terms, for a caster of Calia's level, she can cast it in Buckshire, walk, not run, but walk to Nebood via the coastal road, into nebwood, into the lower dungeons and back out of the dungeon with just one application of the spell.
Take 2, just in case.
2/ True seeing allows the creatures to know you are there when using greater sanctuary They cannot target you, they cannot attack you. You can cast raise dead, or heal people without ever getting touched. It's handy if you are a cleric.
3/ It also makes a great offensive spell. Proof of such is left as an exercise to the reader. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Greater Sanctuary
Posted: 04 Nov 2004 06:35 PM |
Well, of all the people killed, my character was the one who least belonged. He learned several valuable lessons, and it will likely be a while before he regains the nerve for any adventuring.
In regard to the issue(s) at hand, there was some lag, but when I died I felt like I certainly deserved to do so.
Signing off,
Barto "the Hapless" |
Please don't hurt me... |
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