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Guideline Input: Summons and Familiars
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
I'd like to see some discussion regarding how summons and familiars are handled in Vives. I think that having lots of "pets" running around is fine if you're into that sort of thing, but sometimes they really become a nuisance. In particular, people walking into buildings with gaggles of critters behind them. Not only is it unrealistic from a realism standpoint, but things get awful crowded and can get laggy too when a bunch of summoned things clog the screen.
Anyway, no real ideas yet, but didn't want the thought to escape me. |
Question Authority! |
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[No Subject]
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
Yea I'd agree. Keep your pets outta the city and outta houses. dang Hippies! |
I do what the voices in my head tell me too. |
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[No Subject]
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
Overall, I havent found these to be a problem. They usually get out of your way when you push past, and I havent noticed much lag. It is annoying when a summoned creature charges of and attacks things.
At first notice, guards should react to this to fell the summoned creature as its obviously a vicious beast.
Or further, perhaps it could be against the laws of civilized regions that such "familiars" are not permissable within city limits.? Having some will attract the unfavourable attention of the guards?
Or, theres some sort of powerful magical effect on the area (area wide script?) that un-ravels all summoning efforts, and unsummons monsters?
*shrugs* Some ideas anyway |
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[No Subject]
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
| From the prespective of my druid character, her panther is a part of her and goes everywhere with her except into situations that are lible to get the panther killed. I dont think there should be an OOC server rule banning companions/familiars from area's though perhaps summons if people feel it is a problem haveing them in cities/pubs etc. IC'ly, if some pub or what ever were to have a no animals/familiers policy, that would be fine (though you wouldn't ever see Ellanesse in one :) |
~Alosynth
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familiar death
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
I am trying to be constructive in my post, so please don't take it as criticisms. (There are a lot of interesting and cool things in vives).
Is seems that in all the discussions about familiars assumes everyone uses them as meatshields. I understand the need to reduce the abuse of this technique. However, with the current rules in place, it actually encourages this technique or eliminates the use of familiars all together.
There are a number of familiars which are not very good in direct battle, but have other uses ;). They are also great for roleplaying. Yet characters that use these types of familiars suffer the same penalty as those who use the heavy duty battle meatshields. As a result players will tend to chose the meatshields (might as max out the survivability), reducing roleplay opportunities.
Familiar control can be challenging. I think I am fairly good at it (esp. considering the number of hours I've played a wizard on the NWN engine). However due to NWN mechanics, network lag, and area design, familiars will go where you do not want them to (I guess that mental bond is not so strong). This is devastating for the weaker familiars. So my familiar usually remains tucked away (I miss her dearly). (This is unfortunate because I missed her dearly in LoL due to the 1hp badger bug, which never was fixed for me. Aria, might remember me, hehe.)
Now the question is how to maintain balance and have more roleplay with familiars. Some thoughts ...
If you unsummon you familiar, you can resummon the familiar again (with same HPs) without resting. This will allow you to get your familiar out of harm's way during battle conditions, yet use your familiar for roleplay in between battles. (And it would allow you to unsummon prior to entering a tavern.)
And/or have the penalty suffered from the familiar death related to the type of familiar. For example, you could base it on familiar HPs. The owner could suffer a HP loss equal to the familiar HPs. So the more heavy duty your familiar is, the greater the loss.
Every time my familiar died, I died too. So you get a double XP whammy. If your familiar died, the situation usually isn't looking too good (esp, since you suffer a HP loss too). If you are soloing, character death usually happens just after familiar death. And in a good party, you don't really need a meatshield familiar. So IMHO, the XP loss is a bit harsh.
Interesting enough, druids have the best meatshield companions (and I've seen them used as such in vives), yet druids do NOT suffer any penalties upon companion death. So unfortunately, the current rules just punish wizards and sorcerers only. A bit unbalanced IMHO.
I tried to use actual experiences in vives as a player, thought through the results, and use logic to come to the conclusions above. I hope replies do the same. |
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Punchinello Longfello
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Picasso Picante
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[No Subject]
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
I like the idea of being able to resummon once you have deliberately unsummoned, with same hp. I also agree that druids have it very easy. They gain xp as fast or faster than any other class in Vives, and have the benefit of two "meatshields" by their side which have little or no meaning to them in battle, since they lose little/nothing when they die.
That's all I have for now. |
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[No Subject]
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
I have played druids pretty extensively in Vives also, and I too believe that a druid with his animal companion/animal summon are a recipe for not so much exploitation of the game mechanics (like slaying a pen full of chickens for example), but instead they do have a large, large advantage over other characters in similar positions. Druids make more than capable fighters, summons are obviously capable, and companions are also very credible when it comes to dealing out damage.
If there was to be an imbalanced character in Vives it is clearly the druid. And with that comment I will depart, having probably opened up a whole new can of worms....
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Torg |
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[No Subject]
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
| Well, Clerics have nearly the same advantage. Plus they wear heavy armor and can fight like a fighter to boot. Oh, spells? *chuckles* |
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[No Subject]
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
| Most people in the NWN community would agree that Bioware made clerics a powerhouse in general (even if you didn't count the summons). |
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Punchinello Longfello
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Picasso Picante
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[No Subject]
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
Clerics have always been powerhouses, not in NWN, in general.
A cleric is a representative of religion, or a specific religion. So in a way, s/he is a leader. They are sought after by their flock for guidance. They are a target for opposing religions and need to be able to protect themselves.
Through the cleric, a god channels his power in order to woo more followers or strengthen the religion. All of this comes at a price.
They must maintain a strict code of conduct that is in line with their faith. At their gods whim, they must obey. At the whim of their superiors (more often than not) they must obey.
I have roleplayed plenty of clerics, they were my favoured class for a time, and they have always been strong, but in a good roleplaying environment, all their combat abilities and bonuses are tempered by their responsibilities and obligations. I can't say I've seen anyone play a decent cleric yet, but this has alot to do with the fact our pantheon isnt yet set in stone.
What I'm trying to say here is that roleplaying needs to be the answer in cases of clerics and druids and the like. In the wilds a druid has to have these bonuses in order to survive, however there should be roleplaying justification as to why s/he is wandering around with so many summons through non-wilderness areas. Animals may not wish to venture into civilized areas where the rich are wearing their like furs as coats. |
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