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Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 06 Apr 2004 05:24 PM |
General wants:
1. Give xp for disarming traps, there's unlocking exp, why not disarming?
2. Have the server auto-restart more often. NPCs and treasure take far too long to respawn.
If someone sells something to a vendor, that vendor cant buy anything else till the server restarts. I for one have been sitting on items for a week now because I can never sell anything.
3. PLEASE.. let more than 1 NPC identify items. traveling the whole world of vives just to have 1 npc identify something is a bit unrealistic.
4. Add a mage store to Ferein and/or Port Royale, just like Midor's
5. Weaken the thugs in the empty shop of Port Royale.. nothing more depressing, starting off as a new character, open a lock and WHAM dead.. curiosity shouldn't kill the cat so soon.
or just make the DC on the lock higher to make sure the character has the level to actually have a chance vs 3 thugs. If someone pre-visits the place and opens the doors inside, the 3 thugs will wander the room and converge on the player upon entering.
6. The exotics dealer of Midor doesn't buy blunt weapons of any kind, or even peircing weapons, and some other non slashing weapons.. why? There's no sign or books, or anything to explain this and he doesn't have any real conversation.
7. There are a few sites that use the same crafting system this world does, but they have an FAQ and documentation on it. There are 'no' NPCs in vives that even hint at how to craft stuff, or where to look for anything. Nothing in the Library of Midor on this either. I checked a few times.
7a. Please impliment enchanting..
8. Add more conversations to NPCs through out vives.. breath some life into story telling.
I have yet to see any NPCs that say anything about the world they live in.
9. Add more NPCs .. other than the oxen dwarves, the guards roaming near civilization, there are very very few npcs anywhere else.. but there are a whole lot of bats.. everywhere.
something like Roaming priests that heal for a price, or thieves that demand your money, a bard that travels around telling stories, ect..
10. I had requested a law axis giving quest. But instead.. the builder went the lazy route and made it so the sisters just give out LAW for donating.. pfft. that's not lawful.. I went to donate 10000 gold yesterday to get a sense of goodness, and WHAM, you have gained 10 points in LAW, you are now True Neutral. what the..., he switched from giving good to giving law.. no fun at all (hopefully this was a bug).
Example of a pointless area... The kobolds near Midor.. there's no story, nothing of interest, a building that requires a key (there's no key), dead bodies on spikes and if you remove them off the spikes the character says the same text over and over and over.., the explosive barrels in the "temple area" serve no purpose, and if you pick one up.. it's bugged and becomes a "Bag".
This is repeated all over the world of vives. To me.. vives is like a sculpture.. beautiful but without any life at all, other than the RP'ing people you meet.
The keep out in the plains near Midor:
1. Needs a story, some books inside, something that tells of the story behind this place.
please add a Library and some dusty old tomes.
2. Add plaques or some signs that say what the rooms were for, or who's room was whoms.
3. Please for the love of god.. put something in the locked room in the celler, it really sucks to finally defeat the boss and there's no reward but a key to an empty room.. totally anticlimatic.
4. The boss is much weaker than his guardians, make him stronger.. much stronger, my level 5 character went in there, barely surviving the guards, but mopped the floor with the boss. AC is too low for one thing, I never missed a hit on that guy.
Syn's Cavern:
1. It's empty.. 2 minogons.. easily killed.. for a level 7 character, then what.. a big giant cave with nothing in it.
Syn's Steps:
1. Any point to this area? what makes it a 'steps'.. It's mostly empty
Maldovia city?:
1. Syn Ravagers are awesome.. best npc I've seen so far (rips the armor off a player).
BUT there's nothing else.. no books, no story, no survivers, nothing.. just an empty city with a few really cool creatures.. add some disease or poison and these guys would rock, or even paralyzing touch or something..
2. Add some 'Vampire initiates' to this area, there are 'Vampire Victems', have them get up as a low level vampire perhaps?
Unknown name zone near Syn's Steps:
1. There's an undead area, with a cave that is actually a twisted maze. Kinda cool, but again.. empty.. no point in this area.. other than to fustrate the player.
2. There's an Undead Captain outside who is just too strong in relation to the others around him. FAR stronger, more deadly than almost anything I've yet to see. I would suggest a few people go try their hand at killing this guy without using a bow and kiting him, and he drops a useless item which has no backround, no information. other than junk to be sold.
Ferein (all of it):
1. Visually appealing.. but nothing to hunt.. most of the areas are without NPCs.. nothing lives there.. no monsters, no npcs (lots of guards tho), no books, no sages, nothing..
Lake something (the destination from boats):
Totally devoid of life or anything else..
Quests:
I have found quite a few.. at least 10.. and completed all the ones that I did find, BUT, none of them are for any particular profession or crafting class. It's just general (anyone can do) quests that give dubious rewards at best, other than the bag of holding.. that rocks.
Went on a baby delivery mission yesterday just to find out that the quest is borked, no spoilers but let's just say .. you cant do it..
Some quests give out items that are too powerful, the Wolf's heart comes to mind, and especially the Hag in Nebwood.. returning that potion gives an item WAY too powerful for what it is..after I had gotten that item, much of the encounters of vives became almost trivial.. I just go whereever I wanted.. no worries anymore.. or leave whenever I chose without worry of risk.. I believe the quests that do exist need to be re-examined and many more written..
Dumping more areas into vives that are lifeless does nothing, add more quests, more books, more story, more npcs that actually interact.. give the players more to do with what's there rather than keeping adding areas that don't really add anything to the story that is vives.
ok enough of this.. Vives is just flat out empty.. other than things to kill in some areas.
The most developed areas seem to be near Midor out it's outskirts.. The frozen wastes, the Volcano area, they have adventure.. and most everyone goes there.. the rest of vives is lifeless and pointless.. IMHO.
I would be glad to help in any way I can to rectify these issues. This is not a rant or whatnot.
Just my OPINION after 3 or so weeks playing non stop.. most days, I have been on at least 12 hours or so a day.. just exploring and taking notes..
I would not take the time to write all this if I did not care about vives and it's community, I play on vives because I believe it is the best MOD/Community that exists, but I believe it can be far better by addressing the above issues.. again.. this is just my opinion and take it as such.. there was alot more but shoot, my brain is fried from just writing this much..
Thanks for listening.. |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 06 Apr 2004 05:54 PM |
in general, i agree with the spirit of this post....but it took me getting past the first few points before i found things to agree with:
(snip)
1. Give xp for disarming traps, there's unlocking exp, why not disarming?
2. Have the server auto-restart more often. NPCs and treasure take far too long to respawn.
If someone sells something to a vendor, that vendor cant buy anything else till the server restarts. I for one have been sitting on items for a week now because I can never sell anything.
3. PLEASE.. let more than 1 NPC identify items. traveling the whole world of vives just to have 1 npc identify something is a bit unrealistic.
4. Add a mage store to Ferein and/or Port Royale, just like Midor's
5. Weaken the thugs in the empty shop of Port Royale.. nothing more depressing, starting off as a new character, open a lock and WHAM dead.. curiosity shouldn't kill the cat so soon.
or just make the DC on the lock higher to make sure the character has the level to actually have a chance vs 3 thugs. If someone pre-visits the place and opens the doors inside, the 3 thugs will wander the room and converge on the player upon entering.
6. The exotics dealer of Midor doesn't buy blunt weapons of any kind, or even peircing weapons, and some other non slashing weapons.. why? There's no sign or books, or anything to explain this and he doesn't have any real conversation.
(/snip)
1. thieves dont need the extra xp help. ok...maybe give them like 5 or 10 xp. & i say this as somone who plays a thief. the open locks xp was ridiculous enough (but needed in some ways).
2. no. then creatures will reset more often. i can't find it, but balthor had a good post about creatures resetting too often in vives.
3. why? how would these random merchants recognize supposedly obscure magic items?
4. again, why? vives is a low-magic world. having stores in every town would kinda go against that spirit.
5. you know, i hated those thugs, too (i still go back from time to time to kill them, just for revenge's sake...i know, poor rp, but it *feels* good.) but they serve a purpose. my rogue will not enter an area he doesnt know now w/out hiding & moving silently. learned caution in vives is a very good thing.
6. maybe they're not his interest. does a pastry shop sell seafood? nope, even though they're both food that gets sold by "merchants", one shop wouldnt sell all things or even all types of things. (until 7-11 opens a branch in Vives).
....
in general, tho...i'm always a big fan of more npcs, more back story, more.....stuff.
-Sai |
Sai Barris, Scamp-at-Large
Cynda LeRange, Reporter, Port Royale
Parson Droim Raine, Preacha o da Word o Swiftfoot |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 06 Apr 2004 05:57 PM |
Part 2.
INNs, Rooms and Storage:
1. There are no rooms available for anyone coming to vives. I got a room once but because of some issue another player had logging in (found out through yet another player ooc) I gave it up and let the previous player have it back.. I had no idea it was his tho.. there are no room names for most of the rooms. I didn't know that players owned rooms.
please just plop down a few more "hotels" and give the players some place to put stuff..
or at least give the NPCs more cash to buy things.. something.. I just dropped at least 30k in good on the ground to give away since I could barely walk and every NPC i visit says "Does not have enough gold to purchase this item".
1a. There's an NPC in Midor that offers a home for 100 Grand.. but if you have the cash, he doesn't give you a house.. the only text that appears is "nothing at this time.. thanks"..
2.When I did have a room, the box in it was bugged. said " I remember having 91 items, but .. " and says something about reporting a bug.. which made buying the room pointless.
3. There are rarely any NPCs in the INNs that say anything BUT .. you go hit a brothel and there are tons of NPCs that say "get out.. " or other such stuff.. most INNs have NPCs that actually say nothing at all, for the ones that do have NPCs. Buckshire comes to mind.
Midor's INNs/Traverns are empty cept for the quest girl.
4. The INNs sure look good though.
Roleplaying Evil: (not sure if this would fit well within vives but here goes)
1. No where for Evil to respawn properly.. If evil attacks any city/town.. they HAVE to respawn in that city/town.. and even if a "good" type person wanted to rez an evil player.. you can imagine the failures that would happen.. possibly even impossible..
Other than the constant taunting.. there's no real way to RP evil without evil priests or some way to purchase rez scrolls, coming back from death.. unless there's a DM present..
the Fri'el character rarely appears, maybe once per week at best.. so there's no chance at a proper rez.
2. There needs to be an 'evil friendly' city, a place where evil players can hang out and be amongst themselves, where evil NPCs check the player's faction/alignment and are friendly to evil players but hostile to good or true nuetral. An area near Maldovia would be interesting.. or perhaps the Syn Cavern?..
3. There are no evil temples, but there are more than a few 'good' temples and "bow and be blessed" water founts.. in various locations.. in fact, there are a ton of these all over the place. |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 06 Apr 2004 06:10 PM |
Quoted:
1. thieves dont need the extra xp help. ok...maybe give them like 5 or 10 xp. & i say this as somone who plays a thief. the open locks xp was ridiculous enough (but needed in some ways).
Answer: It just makes sense, that if a character with the ability to find traps and successfully uses his skill to disarm it, should get some form of experience. A player get's exp for using thier SPOT skill in one tavern for spotting a hidden NPC, or xp for unlocking, but not for saving his party from a nasty trap.. (shrug) inconsistant at best..
2. no. then creatures will reset more often. i can't find it, but balthor had a good post about creatures resetting too often in vives.
Answer:
When the server resets/crashes.. there are a few players that just immediately run to every treasure area or go and sell thier stuff to the merchants immediately.. I spotted a few already.. and I was forced to keep my stuff for yet another day.. after a week of this.. it gets tiresome.. espcially when there's no storage.. or bags.. I have no issue with the spawn rate.. it's just that whatever they guard will not reappear until a server reset.. the casual player would be lucky to find anything at this rate.
3. why? how would these random merchants recognize supposedly obscure magic items?
Obscure.. there are many vendors selling magic items.. want a few named.. The stagecrafters, the exotics store of midor, the vendor in icy vale, the hermit in the ice wastes.. the merchant in port royale in the pirate bar or whatever it's called.. Ferein's merchant in the tree.. almost ever creature guards magic items, and they drop constantly.. I find +1 or +2 items constantly.. kill the priests of whatshisface and you get a SR 16 robe, do a quest.. bag of holding.. kill orcs get a +1 double axe, just visit your local exotics shop and get a uber KEEN +1 weapon.. how is all this low magic.. kill a ghost in the keep near midor.. drops 1000 gold, or various potions in quantity of 10.. Vives is not high magic but definately not low magic. It only makes sense that more than 1 NPC in the whole world knows anything about any of this.. HECK if someone makes an item (i made a iron shield) and hell I couldn't even identify it.. what the heck was that all about.. I had to pay someone 1200 gold just to learn about something I made, every time i make it.. *laughs*
I would continue with this but I just realized how distorted the responces will be.. so I'll just let this thread die..
4. again, why? vives is a low-magic world. having stores in every town would kinda go against that spirit.
5. you know, i hated those thugs, too (i still go back from time to time to kill them, just for revenge's sake...i know, poor rp, but it *feels* good.) but they serve a purpose. my rogue will not enter an area he doesnt know now w/out hiding & moving silently. learned caution in vives is a very good thing.
6. maybe they're not his interest. does a pastry shop sell seafood? nope, even though they're both food that gets sold by "merchants", one shop wouldnt sell all things or even all types of things. (until 7-11 opens a branch in Vives). |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 06 Apr 2004 07:38 PM |
Hey, lots of stuff in here. Forgive me for quoting everything line by line but I want to make sure the stuff I can comment on gets fair shake. Here goes:
1. Give xp for disarming traps, there's unlocking exp, why not disarming?
If you mean, "why not because it makes more sense to me," then the answer is probably because it's the will of the Team. (Cheesy, I know. Bear with me and these will get better.) If you mean, "why not because rogues could use w/ more xp," then I'd have to say that for every player who would agree with you, another would radically disagree with you. From the point of view of someone who can read everyone's character sheets and can chart everyone's xp progression I'd say that the system as is seems to do what it's supposed to, and any changes to such an incredibly fundamental system (xp touches us all ingame, it is ubiquitous) would come at the end of much deliberation, and would be ideally as subtle as possible.
2. Have the server auto-restart more often. NPCs and treasure take far too long to respawn.
If someone sells something to a vendor, that vendor cant buy anything else till the server restarts. I for one have been sitting on items for a week now because I can never sell anything.
Hrmm. Well, pursuant to your follow-up below I'd have to say that if the server restarted twice as often people would make k-r4d ph47 13\/\/7 runs twice as often, choking the merchants and glutting the NPC economy exactly the same as you perceive it now. From an economical point of view, abundance brings recession/devaluation which social programs (ie, merchant subsidies and an ever increasing resource pool) can't forestall. So, what can be done?
Well, for starters I'll say that I was just thinking to myself while playing an alt character last night that it seemed like the merchants were buying more than ever, at a better price than ever. Honestly, I was suprised at how quickly I was able to raise a very satisfactory ~3000 gold without doing ANY stealing or house breaking or any such thing. With a level three character, no less, who was nowhere near invulnerable. (Bandit Mage, I'm looking at YOU.)
Beyond that, some standard answers (and by standard I mean, they seem to apply generally across a variety of NWN servers and aren't limited to a paticular world/setting) are:
1. Don't make loot runs. Now, I know this doesn't apply to you personally and I also know that ultimately the people who are going to do that probably won't listen to a word any DM or Player says. But still, it bears repeating to anyone in our community here who happens to read this post. Just don't go on server-birth loot runs. People do notice you, Invisibility is NOT a %100 thing, neither is Stealth. Believe me, I've seen it tested with numbers up into stupidly high ranges, like 75+ Hide and MS and the engine just cannot be trusted to make you as undetectable as you expect it to. DM's don't like it, and think it's boring/unfun. Players don't like it, and feel like you are keeping them from being able to accomplish anything ingame for themselves. Just don't do it.
2. Don't sell high-ticket magic stuff to NPC merchants. I mean, really, it's designed ON PURPOSE to give you a lousy return value. This is intended to stimulate player to player trading as a boost to RP. It's not a perfect boost, maybe we could all discuss ideas to better foster an player economy?
3. Develop some fun "gold sinks". This is a complex subject, to design an economy based on fun rather than "if I don't have money I can't buy food." Beyond a certain point in any CRPG, gold becomes useless. The trick for DM's is to find ways to stave off that point for players while maintaining an ideal gold level as they see it for their world. Many people feel that reality-based gold sinks like boat travel and food are not fun. So, what would people consider fun that they would be willing to REGULARLY drop big chunks of gold on to make it worthwhile to sell stuff to players or NPCs at all? Items aren't a viable longterm solution, because every item that goes ingame is permanently ingame unless that player stops playing that PC or it goes to the NPC merchant. So, beyond a certain point what is the reason for there to be 50+ copies of Rhonin armor out there in players inventories waiting to find the best gold return from NPCs? How can we turn that issue into something fun for everybody? Anyone got suggestions?
3. PLEASE.. let more than 1 NPC identify items. traveling the whole world of vives just to have 1 npc identify something is a bit unrealistic.
There are scrolls and potions of Identify available in various places. There are also players out there who have invested skill points in Lore. I agree, only dealing with one NPC all the time is a bit unrealistic.
4. Add a mage store to Ferein and/or Port Royale, just like Midor's
Port Royale has a "mage store" as it were readily available, for mages. Ferein may or may not get a "mage store", but I can't promise or deny anything because I'm simply not the builder of that area.
5. Weaken the thugs in the empty shop of Port Royale.. nothing more depressing, starting off as a new character, open a lock and WHAM dead.. curiosity shouldn't kill the cat so soon.
or just make the DC on the lock higher to make sure the character has the level to actually have a chance vs 3 thugs. If someone pre-visits the place and opens the doors inside, the 3 thugs will wander the room and converge on the player upon entering.
Make it easier to break into a building plainly labled Keep Out, or make it harder. Why not just leave it as is? And if by "pre-visit" you mean "goes there to soak up exploration xp" then exploration is a risk same as combat. Honestly as it stands now magic and unlocking xp are about the only NON-risk venues out there. Hmmm... Maybe they need risk attached... Muhahahah.
6. The exotics dealer of Midor doesn't buy blunt weapons of any kind, or even peircing weapons, and some other non slashing weapons.. why? There's no sign or books, or anything to explain this and he doesn't have any real conversation.
Many NPC merchants don't buy many things. Do we really need to write books telling players what they can discover by mousing over the items?
7. There are a few sites that use the same crafting system this world does, but they have an FAQ and documentation on it. There are 'no' NPCs in vives that even hint at how to craft stuff, or where to look for anything. Nothing in the Library of Midor on this either. I checked a few times.
7a. Please impliment enchanting..
I agree, and am right now brainstorming ways to include some crafting hints while improving overall fun. Can't comment on enchanting.
8. Add more conversations to NPCs through out vives.. breath some life into story telling.
I have yet to see any NPCs that say anything about the world they live in.
*points to Notepad.exe* :D All player submissions will be given consideration, as time/resources permit.
9. Add more NPCs .. other than the oxen dwarves, the guards roaming near civilization, there are very very few npcs anywhere else.. but there are a whole lot of bats.. everywhere.
something like Roaming priests that heal for a price, or thieves that demand your money, a bard that travels around telling stories, ect..
Interesting ideas, all of which demand time/resources. Which isn't a "no", it's a "men-at-work".
10. I had requested a law axis giving quest. But instead.. the builder went the lazy route and made it so the sisters just give out LAW for donating.. pfft. that's not lawful.. I went to donate 10000 gold yesterday to get a sense of goodness, and WHAM, you have gained 10 points in LAW, you are now True Neutral. what the..., he switched from giving good to giving law.. no fun at all (hopefully this was a bug).
Example of a pointless area... The kobolds near Midor.. there's no story, nothing of interest, a building that requires a key (there's no key), dead bodies on spikes and if you remove them off the spikes the character says the same text over and over and over.., the explosive barrels in the "temple area" serve no purpose, and if you pick one up.. it's bugged and becomes a "Bag".
I'm gonna come right out and say that words like "lazy" and "pointless" are not going to compel me to adress the issues at hand.
Beyond that, have you made bug reports? If so, and it hasn't been fixed yet, then I apologize for turnaround time and promise to strive for improvement on QA issues.
Much commentary on specific areas.
Only so many hands, unfortunately. Perhaps, rather than saying, "area X needs something" you could think up some real content you'd like to see there, write it up as best you can, and post it in the area ideas section? But I'll caution you that content addition and bug-fixing directly compete for human labor, so again, I apologize and strive.
ok enough of this.. Vives is just flat out empty.. other than things to kill in some areas.
The most developed areas seem to be near Midor out it's outskirts.. The frozen wastes, the Volcano area, they have adventure.. and most everyone goes there.. the rest of vives is lifeless and pointless.. IMHO.
I would be glad to help in any way I can to rectify these issues. This is not a rant or whatnot.
Just my OPINION after 3 or so weeks playing non stop.. most days, I have been on at least 12 hours or so a day.. just exploring and taking notes..
I would not take the time to write all this if I did not care about vives and it's community, I play on vives because I believe it is the best MOD/Community that exists, but I believe it can be far better by addressing the above issues.. again.. this is just my opinion and take it as such.. there was alot more but shoot, my brain is fried from just writing this much..
Thanks for listening..
Well, your welcome. You kinda stray from the realm of tact a little a time or two, but I suppose we all do sometimes. If you really care as you say, and want to help as you say, then I really do encourage you to take the suggestions I offer above.
And, again, "Men-at-Work".
-- Figleaf |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 04:19 AM |
---First off a general reply - while I agree with some of your points, I think you need to remember this fantastic world is created by people in their spare time, for no reward other than their love of what they have built. I personally am in awe of the amount of work, detail and polish that this world exudes at every turn.
1. Give xp for disarming traps, there's unlocking exp, why not disarming?
---Its a mechanic. I play a high lvl rogue. I have disarmed more traps than picked locks in my career. The xp I have got from picking locks, which has now run out btw, was more than enough. Any more really would be unbalancing. It doesnt need to make sense...your character doesnt know when it gets xp, just be glad you do.
2. Have the server auto-restart more often. NPCs and treasure take far too long to respawn.
If someone sells something to a vendor, that vendor cant buy anything else till the server restarts. I for one have been sitting on items for a week now because I can never sell anything.
---Are you sure you've found all the best vendors for items. Ive never had a problem selling things....good stuff to other players, and the rest to vendors. Sure sometimes vendors run out of cash, but with the hours you quote as being able to play you really shouldnt have much of a problem if you shop around. And get to know the merchant characters in game, one thing the economy does promote is more player interaction. Which has to be a good thing.
3. PLEASE.. let more than 1 NPC identify items. traveling the whole world of vives just to have 1 npc identify something is a bit unrealistic.
---How many characters can identify? A small % probably, especially the higher lvl stuff. Therefore how many vendors can you realistically expect to. And again this promotes player interaction, there are characters that will be happy to id stuff for you, and again you get to meet new people through looking for such characters.
4. Add a mage store to Ferein and/or Port Royale, just like Midor's
---yea maybe, though PR is well catered for, for arcane classes at least.
5. Weaken the thugs in the empty shop of Port Royale.. nothing more depressing, starting off as a new character, open a lock and WHAM dead.. curiosity shouldn't kill the cat so soon.
or just make the DC on the lock higher to make sure the character has the level to actually have a chance vs 3 thugs. If someone pre-visits the place and opens the doors inside, the 3 thugs will wander the room and converge on the player upon entering.
---I lost count of the number of places, as a low lvl char, you could stumble into and die in no time. Its just part of the learning curve for a violent and dangerous world. I found the learning curve steep at times but worth every single dirtnap. :0)
6. The exotics dealer of Midor doesn't buy blunt weapons of any kind, or even peircing weapons, and some other non slashing weapons.. why? There's no sign or books, or anything to explain this and he doesn't have any real conversation.
---As above, this encourages you to shop around. The ONLY items I have problems selling for a reasonable amount are certain bows, that neither bowsmith will buy.
7. There are a few sites that use the same crafting system this world does, but they have an FAQ and documentation on it. There are 'no' NPCs in vives that even hint at how to craft stuff, or where to look for anything. Nothing in the Library of Midor on this either. I checked a few times.
---Yea, this is one of the things Id def like to see the library offer some info on, but again it takes time for people to get everything done. Hopefully with patience it will happen.
7a. Please impliment enchanting..
---*shrugs* dont know the system so cant comment
8. Add more conversations to NPCs through out vives.. breath some life into story telling.
I have yet to see any NPCs that say anything about the world they live in.
----Yep, if they have the time. The wonderful area descriptions give me a feeling of a living breathing world. There are some great NPC conversations, but maybe not enough. Again, maybe in time...
9. Add more NPCs .. other than the oxen dwarves, the guards roaming near civilization, there are very very few npcs anywhere else.. but there are a whole lot of bats.. everywhere.
something like Roaming priests that heal for a price, or thieves that demand your money, a bard that travels around telling stories, ect..
---*nods* would be nice to see this. Even just more places like Sanders tent out in the desert.
10. I had requested a law axis giving quest. But instead.. the builder went the lazy route and made it so the sisters just give out LAW for donating.. pfft. that's not lawful.. I went to donate 10000 gold yesterday to get a sense of goodness, and WHAM, you have gained 10 points in LAW, you are now True Neutral. what the..., he switched from giving good to giving law.. no fun at all (hopefully this was a bug).
---Thats got to be unintended.
Example of a pointless area... The kobolds near Midor.. there's no story, nothing of interest, a building that requires a key (there's no key), dead bodies on spikes and if you remove them off the spikes the character says the same text over and over and over.., the explosive barrels in the "temple area" serve no purpose, and if you pick one up.. it's bugged and becomes a "Bag".
---Umm, the kobold area has two associated quests.
This is repeated all over the world of vives. To me.. vives is like a sculpture.. beautiful but without any life at all, other than the RP'ing people you meet.
---Any life at all!? Harsh. And totally untrue in my book. And Vives is an amazing setting for lots of rp. Some of the life definitely comes from player interaction, and ocassionaly DM intervention. But that aside theres still a lot of life here.
The keep out in the plains near Midor:
1. Needs a story, some books inside, something that tells of the story behind this place.
please add a Library and some dusty old tomes.
---Write something and submit it maybe? Or ask around IC, there are players who can tell you all sorts of interesting tid-bits about various places.
2. Add plaques or some signs that say what the rooms were for, or who's room was whoms.
---*nods*
3. Please for the love of god.. put something in the locked room in the celler, it really sucks to finally defeat the boss and there's no reward but a key to an empty room.. totally anticlimatic.
---Yes, totally agree. The whole unfinishable quests is an irritant. Its frustrating to start a quest and find it cannot be finished. Again, hopefully its just a matter of patience.
4. The boss is much weaker than his guardians, make him stronger.. much stronger, my level 5 character went in there, barely surviving the guards, but mopped the floor with the boss. AC is too low for one thing, I never missed a hit on that guy.
---This could be a case of you using the right tactics, or having the right character class. I know plenty of characters that have died in this fight, and that find chain lightning quite scary! Hes a mage, some chars handle him better than others...and likewise have more problems with his guards than others.
Syn's Cavern:
1. It's empty.. 2 minogons.. easily killed.. for a level 7 character, then what.. a big giant cave with nothing in it.
---Yep, a work in progress I guess.
Maldovia city?:
1. Syn Ravagers are awesome.. best npc I've seen so far (rips the armor off a player).
BUT there's nothing else.. no books, no story, no survivers, nothing.. just an empty city with a few really cool creatures.. add some disease or poison and these guys would rock, or even paralyzing touch or something..
---There are nice little touches like the boarded up houses with cowering refugees behind them. But Maldovia is an area definitely best for inducing rp amongst a group of players.
Unknown name zone near Syn's Steps:
1. There's an undead area, with a cave that is actually a twisted maze. Kinda cool, but again.. empty.. no point in this area.. other than to fustrate the player.
---You sure?
2. There's an Undead Captain outside who is just too strong in relation to the others around him. FAR stronger, more deadly than almost anything I've yet to see. I would suggest a few people go try their hand at killing this guy without using a bow and kiting him, and he drops a useless item which has no backround, no information. other than junk to be sold.
---Character type again maybe. One of my chars demolished this at quite a low lvl, the other had to flee til much higher. Considering whats in the area...and how near it is to syn...it makes sense to me to have a chief there.
Ferein (all of it):
1. Visually appealing.. but nothing to hunt.. most of the areas are without NPCs.. nothing lives there.. no monsters, no npcs (lots of guards tho), no books, no sages, nothing..
---This is one of the newest areas in game, again Id recommend patience.
Lake something (the destination from boats):
Totally devoid of life or anything else..
---Lake Ladriel, the best rp Ive had on this server has started and finished there a number of times. Some areas are just very visually attractive, offering great locations for DM's to use.
Quests:
I have found quite a few.. at least 10.. and completed all the ones that I did find, BUT, none of them are for any particular profession or crafting class. It's just general (anyone can do) quests that give dubious rewards at best, other than the bag of holding.. that rocks.
Went on a baby delivery mission yesterday just to find out that the quest is borked, no spoilers but let's just say .. you cant do it..
---None? No rogue quests? Not enough maybe, but its not meant to be a world for solo'ing, which class quests might encourage. And the baby quest you mention...well Im not sure but think I saw it completed yesterday. Wasnt in on it from the start so will go back to that myself IC at a later date.
Some quests give out items that are too powerful, the Wolf's heart comes to mind, and especially the Hag in Nebwood.. returning that potion gives an item WAY too powerful for what it is..after I had gotten that item, much of the encounters of vives became almost trivial.. I just go whereever I wanted.. no worries anymore.. or leave whenever I chose without worry of risk.. I believe the quests that do exist need to be re-examined and many more written..
---I cant even remember what the Hag gave out so cant have been that amazing. And the hag is a nightmare to kill for some characters. Try taking her on solo as most combat classes. My 13th lvl char steers clear of them still.
Dumping more areas into vives that are lifeless does nothing, add more quests, more books, more story, more npcs that actually interact.. give the players more to do with what's there rather than keeping adding areas that don't really add anything to the story that is vives.
ok enough of this.. Vives is just flat out empty.. other than things to kill in some areas.
The most developed areas seem to be near Midor out it's outskirts.. The frozen wastes, the Volcano area, they have adventure.. and most everyone goes there.. the rest of vives is lifeless and pointless.. IMHO.
I would be glad to help in any way I can to rectify these issues. This is not a rant or whatnot.
Just my OPINION after 3 or so weeks playing non stop.. most days, I have been on at least 12 hours or so a day.. just exploring and taking notes..
I would not take the time to write all this if I did not care about vives and it's community, I play on vives because I believe it is the best MOD/Community that exists, but I believe it can be far better by addressing the above issues.. again.. this is just my opinion and take it as such.. there was alot more but shoot, my brain is fried from just writing this much..
---Some of your post contains great ideas, but at times it sounds like a customer demanding a better service, rather than a member of a community saying here's what Im going to try and contribute. I cant really talk, as Ive contributed zilch and just greedily enjoyed the world as much as I can. :0)
---But I just think its worth remembering how much work has gone into this world by people who do it on top of all their RL commitments. Youve enjoyed it enough to play huge amounts, and rate it the best PW around. I just think maybe its best to view it as an amazing work in progress, rather than a finished article. So a combination of patience and your own contributions might be a good idea. And believe me, from some of your pts there is still more to find in Vives... :0)
---Please take all the above in the best possible tone, as the net is bad for communication. And Im sure Ive mis-read some of your points as a result too...
Cheers,
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 05:17 AM |
Just a few replies to some of the comments
2. Have the server auto-restart more often. NPCs and treasure take far too long to respawn.
If someone sells something to a vendor, that vendor cant buy anything else till the server restarts. I for one have been sitting on items for a week now because I can never sell anything.
Never, never been a problem. There are quite a number of merchants. You just need to know where to find the right ones are to buy which certain items. Ok, it means you have to travel around more, but if you want more gold, it is worth it.
Ask around I am sure there are other chacters that can point you in the right direction
3. PLEASE.. let more than 1 NPC identify items. traveling the whole world of vives just to have 1 npc identify something is a bit unrealistic.
There are plenty of characters who can identify items. Perhaps you need to meet them? Mages are a good choice, as are some clerics. I even know some monks that can identify those extremely rare items that show up during the game.
(Neek? Can Luther have your helmet? :)
4. Add a mage store to Ferein and/or Port Royale, just like Midor's
It's already there. Ask one of your mage friends to take you there.
Heck, I have even heard some rumours that other characters have found a way to go there without a mage escourt. Ask around.
5. Weaken the thugs in the empty shop of Port Royale.. nothing more depressing, starting off as a new character, open a lock and WHAM dead.. curiosity shouldn't kill the cat so soon.
Stealth? I assume that if you can open locks, you can also be stealthy. That has saved my characters life more times than I can count.
It has also gotten him into trouble just as many times when he was able to sneak himself into a situation that was way over his head. Can't win them all.
7. There are a few sites that use the same crafting system this world does, but they have an FAQ and documentation on it. There are 'no' NPCs in vives that even hint at how to craft stuff, or where to look for anything. Nothing in the Library of Midor on this either. I checked a few times.
Hmmm.... I would be inclined to ask other characters IG about apprenticeship. At least that is how Luther learned/is learning.
Ask around IG. You might discover that there are a few characters who already know how to do things.
Finally, Vives is a work in progress. There is only one main builder doing the work. If you have quest ideas, writeups, ... whatever, fire up the toolset, export the erf and send it to Alo. I am sure he would be happy to review the work and incorporate it into the world.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 01:49 PM |
To me.. vives is like a sculpture.. beautiful but without any life at all, other than the RP'ing people you meet.
Im not quite sure I would agree witht his totally but there is some truth in it.
I have heard (and I shall post something more detailed later) but some of the PCs have been warned about treating Vives like an arcade game. Whilst I think this is a fair comment for DMs of a PW Story world to make, there has to be more plot.
The best RPing I do is with other PCs but it is limited. It relates to encounters and not to plots. If this is a story world, where is the story!
I love Vives I truly do and I think that the creators are amazing because I know how much time this takes up. But when I log on Evar wants a purpose. Something to do. RPing small encounters is fun but by no means provides endless fun. So there are times when Im probably guilty of just blowing stuff up. I would rather be involved in some plot or other in which I can RP.
I have offered two suggestions to this. More RP style quests and more DMs who want to be active in RPing with PCs. I know this is hard for them but I think it is the only solution. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 01:53 PM |
I can only repeat the fact: Vives is still developing.
This thread makes it seem as if the team is utterly oblivious to what the world has and still lacks. I hope everyone is aware that is not the case, far from. Figleaf already said it: time and resources has a direct impact on what can be done how soon.
A lot, actually I'd say all of the 'issues' put forward, have been acknowledged by the team or members of the team. We are aware of it, can't change things over night. So most of the time something not happening has to do with us not having the hands to get it all done.
Is that a problem? Perhaps, but our builder enjoys building, I think we all want him to keep enjoying it first and foremost. I also know he'd welcome constructive suggestions and additions. Remember, it is easy to disagree with something, and a lot harder to offer /specific/ solutions how to make it better.
So again it is NOT a case of not wanting too or not willing to admit the world needs work in some areas.
Cheers,
Ruldain |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 02:06 PM |
<quote>
The best RPing I do is with other PCs but it is limited. It relates to encounters and not to plots. If this is a story world, where is the story!
Vives is intended to provide a framework, a backdrop, for your own roleplay stories.
The story is developed as much by players as it is by DMs. Some of the players on Vives have done a wonderful job of creating content that we could never have come up with, with its own flavor, that involves many other players. (See my roleplayer of the month thread for examples, and there are many more.)
The simple fact of the matter is that we cannot have DM coverage every minute of every day, and when there is DM coverage, we cannot involve every single player on the server. In a persistent world, players need to contribute content too. Otherwise, they are in fact treating the world as an arcade game, and expecting the developers to provide every bit of story for them.
We appreciate the feedback, yet at the same time, accept our feedback to you. You're welcome to contribute to what happens in the world. Please do so. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 02:31 PM |
Bah, forget the DM's.
I think Mykal has RPed with DM controlled NPC's a grand total of once (maybe twice, I could be forgetting one.) But I dare anyone out there to try and say that Mykal isn't a story driven character. Proof positive that there are storie abound in Vives. Mykal isn't an isolated example either, nor the best when it comes to PC created stories.
The best stories come from the PC's, period. All it takes is a litle creativity, some flexiblity, and a touch of patience and you can find layers upon layers of adventure, intruge, and drama without a single DM's direct involvement. That's not to say that DM's don't enhance the flavor of the stories, but if one can't find the story without DM involvement, then that person isn't trying hard enough.
I better stop before I start another one of my multiple page posts.
Mykal
[EDIT:] Wait, it was twice. Once was with an DM controlled NPC, and the other time was with a DM directly. Man, you guys ignore me. *walks away with tears in his eyes* |
Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.
-Henry David Thoreau
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 03:01 PM |
Everyone knows you camp DM's for RP xp, man.  You aren't fooling anyone, you power-RP'er.
^^^^^^^ (There's a joke up there somewhere, for those playing along at home.)
-- Figleaf |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 03:08 PM |
The best stories come from the PC's, period. All it takes is a litle creativity, some flexiblity, and a touch of patience and you can find layers upon layers of adventure, intruge, and drama without a single DM's direct involvement. That's not to say that DM's don't enhance the flavor of the stories, but if one can't find the story without DM involvement, then that person isn't trying hard enough.
I absolutely agree here. As Mykal has shown, a combination of story posts here in the forumns, and good RP in game, can make for a great and memorable time for all involved.
Lets all be like Myke!
EDIT: Ok, I admit that was a shameless Aesiresque joke! |
Three sisters, born of the Sea
A sad fate t'was in store for thee
Oh Vaisha, Vahlah and Vallaesha |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 03:22 PM |
Lets all be like Myke!
*sighs* I really need to stop posting my opinon...
EDIT: Ok, I admit that was a shameless Aesiresque joke!
No one can be like Aesir, Kandaelis. Haven't you figured that out yet? |
Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.
-Henry David Thoreau
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 03:24 PM |
| More Edits: Ok, I admit that was a shameless *attempt* at an Aesiresque joke... |
Three sisters, born of the Sea
A sad fate t'was in store for thee
Oh Vaisha, Vahlah and Vallaesha |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 05:20 PM |
| I'd like to be like Mykal, other than the stolen by evil vampires, tortured and most likely dead part....*nods* yes, other than that, he's my hero *sighs and bats her eyelashes* |
Trishy
Macha Sparrowsong - Song is my life
Coretta Alandar - Cleric of Midoran
Dekla Debena - whatever
Not all people who wander are lost.
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 05:34 PM |
More Edits: Ok, I admit that was a shameless *attempt* at an Aesiresque joke...
Sorry that no one else here is going to appreciate this as much as I. Personally, this just gets me all warm and fuzzy.
This is now the second server/community where a word or phrase was invented to account for my .. style.
I will link the official definitions from my old server's boards.
http://old-web.exaria.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2381&highlight=aesirily&sid=f1434a518fefb77e03b90c267bcdc6f9
"to be aesir (that was such an aesir thing to say)
Definition of aesir: (adverb or adjective) to be a verbally wry (not rye) smartarse."
Other valid forms were "Aesirily" and "Aesirness"
Cheers! |
-æsir
"The man that finds himself at a crossroads, and unsure of direction, is not lost. For in truth, all roads will carry him to the same destination - his fate. But it is the determined man that takes the next step." -Aren
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 05:58 PM |
Hey Aesir? Could you PM me some commentary on your experiences on Exaria?
This is NOT Vives related in any way, and I am not looking for anyone to start a discussion about which world is better/worse than another, but as a personal student of the phenomenon of NWN PW's I'm always interested to hear more about personal game experiences from various worlds. Helps me understand the fundamental components of PW Design Theory.
-- Figleaf |
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Re: Unfinished content and opinions
Posted: 07 Apr 2004 10:44 PM |
You got it.
I lived in 3 NWN worlds and 1 Star Wars: Galaxies world over the past few years. They were each *the best* for me at the time. I didn't post that link to serve any other purpose than to say ... this is the 2nd time a word was invented to describe Aesir's wordplay, and that just tickles me.
I will suggest that for those players enjoying themselves in Vives today, they would not like the other server - and vice-versa, and just leave it at that. |
-æsir
"The man that finds himself at a crossroads, and unsure of direction, is not lost. For in truth, all roads will carry him to the same destination - his fate. But it is the determined man that takes the next step." -Aren
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