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Forums  > General  > General  > The chicken incident     Display using: Flat View Threaded View   Oldest to newest Newest to oldest Previous Thread :: Next Thread   Author  Thread: The chicken incident  Zeln Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 122 Send PM   The chicken incident Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM A halfling warrior runs up to a chicken farm, kills the chickens and eats their meat. This isn't about the chickens, it never was. Exploitive of the game being imcomplete or mostly dealing with NPC's. A crime was gotten away with. Now the player doesn't think they did anything wrong, they're chaotic neutral, it should be okay to rob when you're hungry. I'll point out that 1. Chaotic and Lawful does not relate to the laws of the lands. It relates to your running your life with a code or rules. A monk is lawful because they follow their strict martial arts code, a Paladin is lawful because they follow their god. Not because they observe the local "don't walk on the grass" rules. 2 Neutral does not mean you can look out for yourself or do things because you need them, it means you don't have a prefference to commiting deeds of a good or evil nature. Eh?  Fenarisk Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 823 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM Most often, laws are common amongst good aligned characters (Paladin, SOME monks, etc...). While eating a chicken is a crime if someone owns it, the character indeed was not doing anyting wrong in THEIR mind. Think of THIS situation... Modern day, a mentally unstable man kills his entire family as one of his split personalities takes over, slaughtering them all in minutes. Now, what he did WAS a crime, no one can deny that. Does a mentally unstable, insane man deserve to be guilty of a crime? Whether he knew he did or not, or knew if it was right or wrong, decides the PUNISHMENT, but nontheless, a CRIME occured, period. BTW I condone the eating of chickens, my half-orc ate a cow the other day :P...so please don't put farm animals on any faction other than maybe -1 to -5 with the commoners (farmers) ~Fenarisk  Zeln Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 122 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM He would be thrown in an insane asylum, or locked up for his own good, or killed by an angry and not understanding lynch mob. You can't exactly wait around for the bad persona to show up and punish them when they're in control. Eh?  Kell Joined: 12 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 76 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM So what do you suggest?  Fenarisk Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 823 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM Ummm...all this for chickens? Living human beings (or half-orcs for that matter :P) would get a severe punishment, but I don't think eating the chickens would do a lot other than a stiff fine/flogging ~Fenarisk  Aria Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Total Posts: 1035 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM I don't get it. Aria So talented, so troubled.  Zeln Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 122 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM He'd be arrested for it, thrown in prison, and if he was insane, locked up for good. If he was doing it repeatedly, then he'd be locked up for a long time, even longer if he was doing it to all livestock. My issue is more with the player doing it because there was nothing to worry about, normally there would be but he still went away and did, in other words, he exploited the game as it stands and can continue to do something that he normally wouldn't be able to get away with. If the issue of this being a beta comes up, then why bother RP at all? Eh?  Aria Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Total Posts: 1035 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM Let me try to understand what happened. In-game, a halfling ate the farmer's chickens. I see no wrong in that, given: (1) on a role-play level, the halfling is not seen by the farmer, so he 'gets away with it'; (2) on a game level, it does not confer any unfair advantage to his character over others (hence I do not understand the usage of 'exploit'), and more importantly, (3) the halfling's behaviour would not disturb the majority of the players here. Aria So talented, so troubled.  Zeln Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 122 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM You can't just go up and kill someones livestock and take everything of worth from them. It's stealing no matter who from. The farmer not seeing him? The farmer could see him and not notice because he's an NPC. That's exploiting the game mechanics, in normal circumstances, he might be spoted or arrested, currently he (and others) can get away with that and much more because there isn't a proper policing system at the moment, that's exploiting the system. Someone can get away with murder and there's nothing you can do about it, you wouldn't normally, that's exploiting the system. Normally if people saw him doing that, they might be able to inform a proper authority, they can't so he can just do that and cause an awkward RP situation.Someone just goes up and steals, what can you do? Nothing currently and he's exploiting that. If he can get away with that, then what's the point of RP in this module? His alignment also gives him no RP excuse for doing so, which reinforces my point in not bothering to RP. Do you want to say "go ahead and just play the game and not bother with RP?". Do you want people to currently exploit incomplete sections of the world or exploit bugs that exist? Eh?  Fenarisk Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 823 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM Do you KNOW the alignment gave no excuse? Also starvation is starvation, unless you areLG, you're gonna eat a chicken. As well, where the chickens are outside of Windy's (from what I gather it happened there), windy could NOT see this happening, being inside tending to horses and all... ~Fenarisk  Quietus Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 803 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM Well, to a certain extent I agree with Zeln. I am sure the player knows that there's nothing in the current game mechanics to 'catch' him eating chickens, thus he goes ahead and does it. Now, if there were others there and he hams it up, then I suppose it was played as RPing, but if he just goes ahead and says 'heh, lookie this' and kills them, then it's apparent he's aware of the mechanics. I don't really care either way, ATM. What bothers me is that currently there are no game mechanics to prevent this, or at least no mechanics to react to this. The same can be said for one player attacking another right in front of the Midor guards (which has happened). What do the guards do? Nothing of course, but if the mechanics are in place they'd subdue the attacker and jail him. I believe this is the more important point that Zeln raises.  Kell Joined: 12 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 76 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM Indeed, the fact that guards don't react accordingly, and farmers dont report about lost livestock is because it hasn't been scripted... and scripting to any quality standard takes a lot of time and, if we were to script fantastic AI into all our NPC's, I would hazard the guess that this would take alot of resources. In the online roleplaying environments I've visited in the past, I think the best in-character justice system I came across was one that players tended to. That is, your typical guard mob broke up fights and hauled away theives (usually throwing them into a cell for a short amount of time for them to cool off or mutter about being caught). For crimes more heinous, players would report fellanies to the nearest constabulary. This usually took the form of posting a report, which was logged and retrievable by both players and admin. PC law officers would have to find the scoundrel and serve unto them a subpoena, you'd have a court case (usually with an Admin being the Judge) etc etc, your typical justice process. My point is, there doesnt have to be an immediate response to every lawless act... because I think for the most part, these acts are the exception and not the rule. However, there should definitely be a justice system that can settle IC grievances.  Anonymous Joined: 30 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 8 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM Do you actually think in all the wide realms of possibility that guards of a city would jail a hero of the realms (and lets face it, we are all heroes in this world) for eating some poor farmer's chickens? This isn't a noble's chickens, but a peasant who happens reside on the lowest rung of society. We are in a feudal age. Perhaps if I had murdered the farmer things would be different, but as it stands I killed 4 chickens because I was hungry. There is not a feudal court in the world that would jail me for eating 4 chickens. Thing about it folks. _______________________________________ Forgin the Stout [i:9781d98ad4][size=9:9781d98ad4][color=olive:9781d98ad4]Edit: Personal attacks edited out. Flames goes in other sections. Aria.[/i:9781d98ad4][/color:9781d98ad4][/size:9781d98ad4]  Zeln Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 122 Send PM   [No Subject] Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM What would you expect for stealing? A slap on the wrist. Your past deeds mean bugger all if you turn to crime. A hero wouldn't just steal from someone for their own personal whims, and I bet you got payed or rewarded in some way for doing quests. Though it's not overly an option to decline certain rewards, hardly heroic - getting all that money and then just stealing for food. [i:a7e9e06733][size=9:a7e9e06733][color=olive:a7e9e06733]Edit: Reference/responses to personal attacks edited out. Flames goes in other sections. Aria.[/i:a7e9e06733][/color:a7e9e06733][/size:a7e9e06733] Eh? Previous Thread :: Next Thread  Page 1 of 1   Forums  > General  > General  > The chicken incident