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Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 09:10 AM |
After having heard that on of the players got his ring of intelligence +4 removed, because those have to be DM granted, I'm giving a list of everything that should be replaced on Dias/Xaranthir. I never got one item from a DM, except for a bowl of blood that only had roleplay value.
Two rings of int +4 (On I got as a compensation from someone who had stolen 50k of gold out of my mailbox, before I knew that was possible to do. He had died several times before I tracked him down and couldn't repay me, so this was his payment.)
Belt of agility +4
Boots of striding +4
His staff of command, although his trademark, happens to have too many powers that are unique and hence should also be DM granted. Please replace with a walking stick. (yeah it has many abilities, but if this gets replaced please go modify some of my stories. Some of those powers I attributed to him having draconic heritage.)
The bags I'm carrying are too highly enchanted, please replace with bags that add weight instead of reduce it.
I'm not entirely sure about other items but I'm sure he's carrying one or two extra things he found that are illegal unless given.
So then I hear it can either get replaced by gold or by a lower item and the difference in gold. Quite frankly what in the hell are we supposed to do with gold? He's carrying half a million of gp on his person, which is utterly ridiculous.
Instead I'd rather see a banking institution in Vives which would keep 10% of the gold you give in, rather than the witch hunt for items. Ah! But then we could cheat the death penalty of gold! Well tell you what, the xp death penalty is far worse than a loss of gold pieces. Not to mention the fact that you lose an entire level after 20. (added this to the wishlist in Arathon's thread)
For those not paying attention, this is posted in the ranting section and that is exactly what I am doing here. I did not have a good day (just got back from the hospital) and trying to unwind on Vives only to hear this, makes me pissed off. And for the record: I was told months ago that it was ok to keep those +4 items. Yeah imagine that! I actually asked several DMs if it was ok. Ah right, I should have pm'ed all DMs.
Yes, I know roleplaying is not about items, but to me they are part of the game. That's why I play D&D, for it's versatility. I've found these items over a long period of time and consider them to be priceless treasures. So yeah, they are part of the game.
...
Oh and now that I'm proposing things... [sarcasm mode]I'd really like to see HCR implemented[/sarcasm mode]
Edit: I only added things (between brackets) |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 09:21 AM |
| Pretty annoying and sure to drive some people off the server. I saw this happen on another server and the result was disasterous. |
Rutger_13
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Not all who wander are lost |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 09:24 AM |
Might be strange to hear it from me, as I would be part of the DM's with which you are annoyed, but I can see how this would make you feel bummed.
Vives has a long history when it comes to items and it is one of the toughest things to control, to keep it fair for everyone. First there was the: not enough class specific items complaint, swiftly followed by: unbalanced items, and: too easy to get high items.
As a result of these common complaints, people finding it hard to reconcile themselves with what they got and a lot of them feeling a great urge to look at what they do not have and others do, combined with the trouble of adding useable treasure-tables (work screwed up by Bioware with their not so compatible updates which destroys, overwrites custom content) made this an 'issue'.
Sadly the only alternative to avoid all the complaints and problems fixing the item issues, is to freeze the mod, throw it back into beta, have none of you people connect and let you start playing again when it is all fixed. This option, however, seemed insane to a lot of us, although we do wish something like this could be done to solve certain issues once and for all. Since it is not a valid possibility, we have to rely on player maturity, players not making it worse and hope for their understanding as we try to work through these one at a time, which might have measures as described by Phoenix as a result.
It is not fun, not for the player, not for the DM. None of them can be blamed. Also where ranting might be a good outlet now and then, we'd welcome constructive feedback as well. Arathon opened a thread about the main issues vives has to deal with currently. I can assure you that thread will be looked at with great interest. So post away.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 09:47 AM |
| That restriction/ban list needs to be revisited for characters above a certain level, dunno what that level is, but as it is now, a lvl 40 is restricted to the same ownership of unique things as a level 12 ( able to have freedom as your 1 unique thinggy at 12). I have some plus 4 things that need to go too I guess.. not exactly stoked about it.. |
My lamentable plight... I am calamity.
fire... burning....agony...
sultry shivers of a dark essence
why am i tortured with this nihilistic existence?
-Maddox |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 10:02 AM |
Umm, I was the player that had the +4 ring taken away. I actually thought it was fair enough, I found it in a random crate in the desert going cross country cos there was no boats. Now despite it being the only good thing to come out of the new transport system :0), I wasnt bothered about losing it.
The dm was fairly nice about it...gave the character a slightly better greatsword than she had. Nowhere near the value of the ring...but not like I really had to struggle to get the ring either.
My only point being I havent once complained about this...or even talked about it in or ooc to anyone since the incident. Wouldnt want anyone thinking I was bothered.
Items come and go...my DM in PnP is fond of item saving throws...you get used to losing favorite possessions.
But as for whether all such items should be taken out, thats a different argument and I havent seen anyone categorically say thats the case. I was a lvl 8 (I think) character...stripping someone's lvl 20 character of long held items is a different matter I would say. And the ring in question went because I was trying to sell it to another player...it wasnt even something I could use.
Anyway, just wanted to clarify the origin of this story.
Cheers,
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 10:12 AM |
| There was another player that had their +4 int ring yanked. This player spent a LOT of $$ to buy it, back when we had persistent merchants and gold was a lot less plentiful. |
My lamentable plight... I am calamity.
fire... burning....agony...
sultry shivers of a dark essence
why am i tortured with this nihilistic existence?
-Maddox |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 10:16 AM |
*shrugs* K, my comments were about an incident in the last few days. And yea, it was a ring of int +4. If this thread wasnt about that ring Ill butt out! :0)
Cheers,
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 10:22 AM |
| it may have been you , the guy that I was talkin bout just had it taken away about 3 days ago. I was just pointing out that someone else had been carrying a 4int ring for a long time and dropped a lot of $$ for it when gold actually was worth something :) |
My lamentable plight... I am calamity.
fire... burning....agony...
sultry shivers of a dark essence
why am i tortured with this nihilistic existence?
-Maddox |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 10:27 AM |
The player I heard about (yes words travel faster than the speed of light) was the one who played Neb Larson, also a wizard.
But as for whether all such items should be taken out, thats a different argument and I havent seen anyone categorically say thats the case.
Well it has been confirmed now. Every single +4 item is only to be granted by a DM. Barnas stated in Ara's thread about wishes and complaints that +4 was until now illegal.
Sorry but that wasn't the case. I asked two DMs at the time I found my first ring +4 int whether it was illegal or not, because rumours had been spread at the time (December I think). Both told me to keep it, because they were revising the rules since epic levels were added.
Since then I've always turned in any item stronger than that. I think I found three items +5 in total. One I traded in for a scroll of bigby's grasping hand (the one that simply holds you, doesn't crush the target), because at that time it was a nice flavour spell for the Malagard quest. In terms of price comparison I got the shaft, but I didn't care about it. It's simply a big letdown (is this even English?) now that every item which I have been carrying for several hundreds hours have to go now.
I've always seen the items he had and the bonusses they conferred to him as a result of his heritage. Things getting unlocked, etc, because frankly I don't know how to tell someone in a rp manner: yeah I'm a lot smarter thanks to this ring. It sounds stupid IMHO. So from now on I'll suppose I'll play him as having amnesia or alzheimer, because his ability to remember things and spells isn't what it used to be. Or wait... isn't the absent-minded wizard something which has been overdone? |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 10:42 AM |
Barnas stated in Ara's thread about wishes and complaints that +4 was until now illegal
I'm not quite sure where I said that.
-Barnas |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 10:54 AM |
Yeah my bad, you said it in irc. The fact was until November or so last year they -were- illegal.
But after hearing through the grapevine that +4 had become allowed I still asked to be sure. |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 10:57 AM |
Ah. You're right, I did say it there. I got confused by the Ara thread comment ;)
-Barnas |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 11:27 AM |
| Has there ever been an item wipe or PC wipe in vives? Just curious I have seen it done or several servers and connected into the main story at the same time. |
You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.
~Robin Williams
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 11:39 AM |
Way back when, when Vives was still in its larval stages, +4 and its associates were very allowed, that much isn't being disputed. But the people in charge thought it was too powerful and made it illegal.
My question is why? +4 items can't be worn before level 12, I think, and at the time, I don't remember, there were, I don't know, three, four characters above level 12? Even now the amount of post-twelfth level characters is certainly not the majority of characters, you'd think that these people would actually deserve something for their accomplishments and dedication.
And another question, where does it end? I spend the last week trying to master tailoring, only to realize that I don't want to make the items that everybody wants because I feel like if I flood the market with them, it'll become an "overpowered" item. When everybody has the most powerful gear in the game (and it'll happen, as time passes, more and more people will slowly acquire more, more powerful gear) will this happen again? Will +2 become the highest findable equipment, with +3 equipment becoming DM granted only?
I'm hoping/assuming there's some sort of thread for it on the DM forums, but what if you get some +4 gear granted by a DM and a different DM says "Hey, you can't have that!" and zaps it off you? I can only imagine that (1) that's already happened and (2) it became a huge fiasco. If not, it's bound to be.
A low-powered, RP server is a double-edged sword. You want people to RP and you want to avoid powergaming, but you still put all those monsters out there for people to kill and gain experience. You want to avoid overly powerful items, and yet it seems like every step imaginable has been taken to weaken the characters and enhance every monster. Doesn't it seem just a tad unrealistic that nearly every monster in the game (there's at least one in every bunch) has been granted See Invisibility or True Sight, yet it's apparently unrealistic or overpowered to find a piece of equipment that grants the same feat? How is it that a fifth level human bandit cleric on the great plains has been able to attain this power and I, a fourteenth level wizard, will never see this sort of ability (no pun intended)?
Regardless that I've always felt this way (I completely lost a full kit of +4 gear at the ban, having it replaced with +3, since then I've been a little bitter), because when I speak up like this it seems that I get labelled a rebel and shunned by the DMs. I said before when I tried to get unsuspended (when I was suspended for something I was told "Well, it's you, so it's cool, but we're going to take action against new people exploiting this stuff") that I was tired of making complaints and whining and causing arguments about what I don't like about this server. All I ever wanted to do was play. And that's still true. But sometimes I feel like I should be heard. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 11:58 AM |
The thing that is aggravating here is the reversal. Yes, +4 was disallowed. Innumerable times I turned in +4 and +5 items. Sometimes for a reward. And sometimes the reward was lost in a crash and I got nothing to replace it. I did not complain. The "preferred" top level here then was 12. Apparently at level 15 you lose all ability to role-play and turn into a ravening powergamer. *slink eats five readers on a whim*
Then, when Epic levels were allowed, I was asked how I felt about allowing +4 items except for weapons. I said I felt pretty shitty, considering that I'd turned in a lot of them. But, since levels can now go to 40, if you live long enough, I decided it was not all bad. This ... despite the fact that as a fighter I cannot get any combat use out of rings of +4 INT, rings of +5 Lore (granted me by Aria long ago), and belts of +4 DEX (as compared to +12 Spell Resistance, and I know the top two spellcasters in Vives disagree with me, but I play her and I -know- when she does better and when she does worse). The one single item that I use in combat is a +4 saves scarab (and Will saves is broken). I will never be allowed a +4 sword, and spellcasters can make theirs +5 with one cast. As well as summon their own melee fighters. But okay, I can gain a tiny bit in combat, and a lot in crafting. I'm happy.
What I've been told is "Well, you get +3 stuff instead of +4. It's not as bad as it sounds. Really." Oh? Well, if replacing +4 with +3 isn't that bad, why is +4 so bad? |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 11:59 AM |
Has there ever been an item wipe or PC wipe in vives? Just curious I have seen it done or several servers and connected into the main story at the same time.
No and if this happens I'm out of here. This is not a threat, because that would be idiotic as the server belongs to the admins and DMs, but 'tis a mere fact.
Wipe my character or his inventory and it's bye bye Vives. I've invested too much time in a single character to have him wiped. If that happens I'm no longer interested in a world that claims persistancy, but ends it in such a blatant way.
Diablostan: The DMs can see where you got an item from. If it comes from a DM I think they'll know.
But he also brings up a very good point. Item Level Restriction. |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 12:15 PM |
ILR is massively too low for a lower magic world, as well as properties being incorrectly weighted.
-Barnas |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 12:54 PM |
Fine then why allow players to play wizards and clerics? If anyone is powerful on a low level magic world it's those classes.
Lets say that +4 items are allowed and thus also +4 weapons. A majority of creatures will still not be able to be hit by anyone using such a weapon. The wizard and cleric happily cast Greater Magic Weapon et voilà... +5 weapons. Then there's the point slink brought up: summoned creatures. Wizards and clerics have their own personal bodyguards.
You want a low level magic world? Nerf clerics, magicians and sorcerors. Introduce HCR and turn the summonings into 1 round per level instead of 24 hours. |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 01:10 PM |
Please don't ask them to further nerf the universe. Trust me, I still have a very hard time getting around.
And as a sidenote, what does HCR stand for? |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 01:11 PM |
You want a low level magic world? Nerf clerics, magicians and sorcerors. Introduce HCR and turn the summonings into 1 round per level instead of 24 hours.
or just remove/disable/nerf the spells that makes items illegal.. (as greater magical weapon)
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 01:14 PM |
Dear god no! The whole reason for low magic is to create more class co-operation; when a fighter relies on a caster for buff spells, that's precisely what it does. It really -does- encourage partying.
Of course, you can go too far with this. It can also mean that you need a party to fight -anything-.
However, removing those spells is really stupid, IMHO. Casters earn those spells to help their fighter comrades fight their foes.
(Removing scrolls of such spells from IG merchants is another matter entirely. GMW/FlameWeapon/Keen Edge should not be sold -anywhere- as a non-decreasing item). The point isn't to give rogues every ability a caster has. =P
-Barnas |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 01:18 PM |
You want a low level magic world? Nerf clerics, magicians and sorcerors. Introduce HCR and turn the summonings into 1 round per level instead of 24 hours.
or just remove/disable/nerf the spells that makes items illegal.. (as greater magical weapon)
Dens
Could you then please also remove the monsters that can only be hit by +5 weapons? Oh and what about those high damage spells? IGMS comes to mind. What about the epic summoning spells? What about spells that grant 32 SR? What about a spell that gives +8 to saves vs spells? What about metamagic feats such as empower and maximise spell?
And HCR stands for Hard Core Ruleset. Aka: try to kill badger, get wounded, try to cough up 10 gp to go sleep somewhere, find out you don't have food or water and can't rest. |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 01:24 PM |
HCR:
Heavily Crap Ruleset.
-Barnas |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 01:27 PM |
Why not just remove every spell level past three? I don't know how mages would survive.
Trust me, a mage's ability to grant himself a +5 weapon isn't all that spectacular. I die to kobolds if I get hit. At 14, with a high Con and Toughness, I still don't have all that many HP, and my AC is downright horrible. To nerf wizards would be like saying that fighters can't wear armour, or use weapons. Besides. If anything, fighters are just as ridiculous. I don't know about you, but I run out of spells real fast. Fighters don't lose sword swings.
And HCR seems like a bad idea. I disagree with it. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Bloody annoyed
Posted: 19 Mar 2004 01:31 PM |
Could you then please also remove the monsters that can only be hit by +5 weapons?
why is that? there -is- a reason that they cannot be dmged by these weapons..
Oh and what about those high damage spells? IGMS comes to mind.
well I never was for these spells.
What about the epic summoning spells?
I think the duration should be shorter actually.. but I guess that we should look into it after someone will be able to summon dragons.
What about spells that grant 32 SR? What about a spell that gives +8 to saves vs spells?
well.. cant see something wrong about these.
you use magics to block magic
What about metamagic feats such as empower and maximise spell?
there's nothing wrong about em.. you spent a feat for that.. and a spell slot...
And HCR stands for Hard Core Ruleset. Aka: try to kill badger, get wounded, try to cough up 10 gp to go sleep somewhere, find out you don't have food or water and can't rest.
well.. I prefer using more realistic rules.. cant see how it will harm you to sit down and eat..
even as it is ppl keep ignoring the fact they get some food and eat it when they rest.
and also - yeah, when you try to kill a badger in RL you wont get out of it un harmed.. and if you are 'good' enough yo wont - same IG..
'find out you dont have food or water' - actually.. when you pay for the inn you are suposed to get the food and drinks(tho 10 gps is quite too much for a room .. but not in Vives, where ppl can get over 1k in an hour) - and you are suposed to have more than one kind of rooms and meals/drinks -> but ppl will just spend their time alone in the cheap ones =p
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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