|
Re: SR test
Posted: 23 Nov 2006 12:41 AM |
Before we all go nuts trusting the judgement of the Germans, I have two words for you: David Hasselhoff.
;)
-VK |
"You know, a gong. Large, flat object that you hit when you want things. Sort of like a waiter, but less portable."
-Radra |
|
  |
|
|
Re: SR test
Posted: 23 Nov 2006 01:31 AM |
Heh... if you're starting with clichées, then you probably know that noone knows better about eficiency than germans, so who would be better to judge CPU performance? :)
Oh, and you americans bought most of the Scorpions albums and love Rammstein, so don't get me started with bad taste. :D |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: SR test
Posted: 25 Nov 2006 06:21 AM |
*Waits for PDW to weigh in on the Intel dual core versus AMD dual core argument.*
Have a look here, as I linked to above:
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6184
Pretty comprehensively demonstrates that the slowest Core2Duo is in most cases as fast and in some cases faster than the most expensive AMD dual core.
And that's even a British site . |
Barnas: *coughs up a small gangster*
Barnas: ... I like pretty flowers.
Barnas: I'm not a transvestite! |
|
|
|
|
Re: SR test
Posted: 25 Nov 2006 07:53 AM |
Just remember the old saying,
"Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics"
Any benchmark only shows you something in particular that it is testing and doesn't always show you the whole story.
One thing to look for in benchmarks (if you care for that sort of thing) are the gory details - cache sizes, working set size of the benchmark, compiler used. Generally, the things that can swing benchmarks widely from one side to the other.
Intel produces excellent compilers that optimize the performance of the machine code for their CPU's extremely. The Intel compiler is also known to "sub optimize" the code for AMD cpus. Run the same program on two CPUs that should be of the same performance but see a massively different result just because the compiler did a better job for one and not the other.
Another trick for benchmarks is to run a test which fits in the cache of one CPU but is slightly larger than the cache of the second CPU. The Intel CPU's, because of their bandwidth bottleneck keeps a massive 4MB level 2 cache. The AMD has 2MB. A question to ask and see is, is the working set size of the benchmarks between these two sizes, larger or smaller?
Real world applications in windows seldom fit inside the CPU cache resulting in a lot of traffic to and from main memory. Benchmarks that compare the CPUs from that perspective tend to give the amd cpus the higher scores because the AMD has the more important memory speed advantage over any of the Intel CPUs.
Also, it is likely that these benchmarks were run in 32 bit mode. AMD's 64 bit performance is even better.
Again, what matters is not the benchmarks, but how it performs in the real world. My AMD based application servers outperform (and at a slower clock speed) my Intel application servers running the same software by a factor of two to one.
My subject experience with the AMD cpu when running windows is that it is "faster".
What is interesting to note is that the new Intel CPUs are not based on the P4 or Xeon cores, but they are based on the previous P3 cores. Intel a few years back made the decision that clock speed was more important than having an efficient CPU core (which the P3 actually was). The end result was several years of development of an architecture that they have now basically abandonded (the P4 netburst architecture).
You can see the results of this by looking at the clock speeds of the new Intel CPUs. They are currently at around 2GHz where the P4 is at over 3GHz, and yet the P3 based cores are outperforming the P4 cores. It was that missstep that gave AMD time to get caught up with their CPU technology and then surpass Intel. (AMD's multicore technology is much better than Intels at the moment)
What would I choose?
If I were to chose a cpu for a business machine, I'd go Intel. Application servers? AMD. My own personal gaming machine? Next one will be AMD.
At the end of the day, choose what you prefer, what you can afford and what you are most comfortable with.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: SR test
Posted: 25 Nov 2006 11:28 AM |
| Man, finally you weigh in on this issue! I've been waiting all this time for your masterful response! What have you been doing? Like, working or something? |
Famous last words:
Mykal> it's my new wireless router.
* > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout)
Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m.....
* > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat) |
|
|
|
|
Re: SR test
Posted: 26 Nov 2006 04:38 PM |
*shrugs* My personal experience is that comparably priced Intel & AMD dual cores are not comparable in terms of power. My OH has an X2 3800+, I have a Core2Duo E6300. Both pretty comparably priced (the former is currently about £20 cheaper). The Intel chip does things a *lot* faster than the former in everything we have tested (with exactly the same graphics card and same amount of RAM).
So I'm not just talking about benchmarks here .
Edit to add: although, if you look at those benchmarks in the example, they do test a range of things so you can get a pretty good idea of overall performance. |
Barnas: *coughs up a small gangster*
Barnas: ... I like pretty flowers.
Barnas: I'm not a transvestite! |
|
|
|
|
Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 09:40 AM |
| All right, here's the thing. I'm getting a laptop. Kalannar said somewhere in this thread that they're not good if you want to play, but... is there any hope that I could run NWN2, even with the lowest settings with a new laptop that isn't crazy-expensive? I'm assuming it'll have 1,8-2 gHz processor and 1054 mb RAM. Graphics card is a question mark, any recommendations what I should look for? |
IG character: Alis Rapidshill |
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 09:49 AM |
| Where are you looking to buy from? If it's Dell or someplace then we can check out their site :) |
Vives Screenshots!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 09:53 AM |
One thing to avoid (from my limited knowledge) is anything saying "Intel" "Integrated" or ATI Radeon Xpress 200 or 200m/Nvidia GeForce 6100 or 6150.
Those won't run it for sure, don't think any integrated will. After that it's down to what sort of graphics cards are available with the laptop you're thinking ofand of course, budget/price :D |
Vives Screenshots!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 10:01 AM |
| Ok, thanks! I don't know too much about this stuff so any guidelines are good. |
IG character: Alis Rapidshill |
|
|
|
|
Video Cards
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 10:02 AM |
I currently running a 2.0 Ghz machine and was wondering if adding an updated video card would allow me to run NWN2, and if so what is a resonable card to purchase on a limited budget?
Also, is there a time frame for when Vives will be converting to Vives2, because I really don't plan on buying NWN2 or a new video card until that happens... This is the only place I play the only game on my computer.
Thank you. |
-Kalos
"When in doubt, tell the truth. It will amaze most people, delight your friends, and confuse your enemies" -Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 10:03 AM |
Supported nVidia Laptop Chipsets:
GeForce Go 7800 GTX
GeForce Go 7800
GeForce Go 6800 Ultra
GeForce Go 6800
GeForce Go 7600(b)
GeForce Go 6600
GeForce FX Go 5700
GeForce Go 7400
GeForce Go 7300
GeForce Go 6400
Supported ATI Laptop Chipsets:
PCI Express Graphics Processors
Mobility™ Radeon® X1800 Series
Mobility™ Radeon® X1600
Mobility™ Radeon® X1400
Mobility™ Radeon® X1300
Mobility™ Radeon® X800
Mobility™ Radeon® X700
Mobility™ Radeon® X600
Mobility™ Radeon® X300
AGP Graphics Processors
Mobility™ Radeon® 9800
Mobility™ Radeon® 9700
Mobility™ Radeon® 9600
Graphics Card Necessities:
Shader Model 2.0 (Shader Model 3.0 recommended)
128mb (256+ recommended)
Just found this :)
I'd go as high as you can afford though, as "supported" and "playable" are two very different things :D |
Vives Screenshots!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 10:12 AM |
2.0 Ghz I'm not too sure about to be honestThey say a minimum of 2.4? But I would have thought it would run OK..... don't hold me to that though :P
I guess it's an AGP card you're after? My preference are nVidia cards (much better drivers than ATI), I've seen lots of folks having issues with ATI's (as was the case with NWN1..... shiny water anyone? :P).
There's some nVidia GeForce 7600's out there which will run NWN great..... (AGP compatible)..... I think I've seen them for around $130-$150.
Not sure if that's in budget though....... and there's always the power supply issue that might crop up...... any idea how big a power supply you have? |
Vives Screenshots!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 10:19 AM |
| A quick search and it's showing people running NWN2 with 2Ghz processors (but with decent video cards and RAM) fine..... so hopefully you will be able to as well :D |
Vives Screenshots!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 10:37 AM |
| Liisi: If you link to some laptops in your price range then I'm sure people will chime in as regards how good they are and whether they'd run NWN2 :) |
Vives Screenshots!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 10:46 AM |
| I'm quickly losing my hope of playing NWN2 as I can't seem to find a laptop that has both 2gig processor and a decent vid card in my price range... but if I'll find one, I'll post a link. |
IG character: Alis Rapidshill |
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 11:08 AM |
Thanks for the help. I'll be sure to keep my eye out for any pre- or post- Christmas specials... And I would agree that I would rather be in the "playable" category. At least my processor speed should be sufficient to get me started.
Is there any sort of timeline for a Vives2 roll-out...6 months, 1 year, 2 years?
Thanks Again, |
-Kalos
"When in doubt, tell the truth. It will amaze most people, delight your friends, and confuse your enemies" -Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 11:40 AM |
| Regards the roll-out........ not sureclosed BEta in the next couple of months (checking scripting and persistency etc)........ would have thought that the full release of Vives 2 would be much closer to 6 months than a year though :D |
Vives Screenshots!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 01:56 PM |
I'm quickly losing my hope of playing NWN2 as I can't seem to find a laptop that has both 2gig processor and a decent vid card in my price range... but if I'll find one, I'll post a link.
Check Dell's website. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 03:25 PM |
2.0 Ghz I'm not too sure about to be honestThey say a minimum of 2.4? But I would have thought it would run OK..... don't hold me to that though :P
It's all relative....I run it on technically a 1.86Ghz speed CPU, but it's a very efficient CPU so while it's technically slower, it does more in that time than a 2.8Ghz Pentium 4.
So depends on what your CPU is, exactly. |
Barnas: *coughs up a small gangster*
Barnas: ... I like pretty flowers.
Barnas: I'm not a transvestite! |
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 03:30 PM |
Dude, I'm running a Dell.
(In other words I am not sure as it is a hand-me-down.)
Thanks. |
-Kalos
"When in doubt, tell the truth. It will amaze most people, delight your friends, and confuse your enemies" -Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 03:36 PM |
We have a Dell here...... Couple of years old but still OK:
P4 3.0Ghz
2.5Gb Ram (we upgraded)
We had to upgrade the graphics card though, and be wary with Dells...... they often aren't very generous with power supplies!
We went from a Geforce 5200FX to a Geforce 7800GS and had to upgrade the power supply accordingly (it only came with a 230w one!) up to 400W..... Dells won't take aftermarket power suplies however without hacking the case and cutting into it, the only place we found that guaranteed PSU's to work with Dells (without getting out your saw) was PC Power & Cooling.
So just be sure to find out what you have as a power supply and what the newer video card would need as a minimum :) |
Vives Screenshots!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 04:02 PM |
I don't even know where they sell Dells around these parts so I'd have to order one from god knows where, and after checking their site, it looks like they're too expensive in any case. My situation is a bit odd, as I'm getting the laptop for work purposes and my father is going to pay for it... and he wouldn't be too happy to pay an extra 500 e just because I want to use it for gaming on the side.
I found these two that would seem tolerable, any opinions?
Acer Aspire 3024WLMi:
AMD Sempron 3100
1024 Mt DDR2 (2Gb max)
Ati Radeon X700, 128mb
Acer 5101AWLMi X1300:
AMD Turion 64 MK36 (2,0GHz)
1024Mb DDR2 (2Gb max)
ATI X1300 128Mb |
IG character: Alis Rapidshill |
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 04:10 PM |
Supported ATI Laptop Chipsets:
PCI Express Graphics Processors
Mobility™ Radeon® X1800 Series
Mobility™ Radeon® X1600
Mobility™ Radeon® X1400
Mobility™ Radeon® X1300
Mobility™ Radeon® X800
Mobility™ Radeon® X700
Mobility™ Radeon® X600
Mobility™ Radeon® X300
AGP Graphics Processors
Mobility™ Radeon® 9800
Mobility™ Radeon® 9700
Mobility™ Radeon® 9600
Both of those video cards seem to be supported by NWN2. They -should- run NWN2The X1300 for sure. |
Vives Screenshots!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Laptops?
Posted: 07 Dec 2006 04:14 PM |
| Meh...I think I cannot run that game if people bought computers especially for it... *shrugs and goes back drawing and sewing* |
Frodo : What are we holding on to, Sam?
Sam : That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it’s worth fighting for.
-The Two Towers |
|
|
|