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PPing Guidelines
Posted: 07 Jan 2004 11:56 PM |
PPing (Pickpocketing) Guidelines
This post will serve as the PPing Guidelines in Vives.
PPing is allowed in Vives given these stipulations:
RPing
As with everything in Vives, PPing should be RPd. Merum will elaborate on this point with a follow up post.
Level Range
A player may not PP a victim who has more than 5 levels below the player. This is easily known by 'inspecting' the potential target. If the difficulty of the potential target is shown as 'Effortless' then this indicates that the victim has more than 5 levels below you.
Frequency
A player is allowed one successful PP per 24 RL hours per victim. PPing a target more than once in this period is considered griefing and will not be tolerated. You may target more than one victim in this period, just not the same victim more than once.
These are very simple rules to follow. What follows is more information about the mechanics of how we've implemented PPing.
Keys
No keys can be PPd. If a key is PPd then it will return to the victim's possession and the rogue will receive gold instead.
Item Weight
Items that are heavy (e.g. full plate armor) will fall to the ground upon being PPd. This is not to say they are not allowed to be PPd, rather these mechanics were added to simulate some form of reality.
Adjacent Players
Players that are within the visibility range of a successful PP will make a spot check to see if they notice the PP occurring.
As for enforcement, PPing is logged in the database. We log not only when the PP occurs, but also how many times you have ever PPd a particular player. If these rules are violated then automatic XP penalties apply.
-Q |
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Re: PPing Guidelines
Posted: 08 Jan 2004 01:12 AM |
Pickpocketing. It's a touchy subject for lots of folks.
Pickpocketing adds a lot of dimensions to the game. It adds tension between players, and provides good opportunities for roleplaying, if done responsibly and in a mature manner. In NwN in general, and especially on PWs, pickpocketing has been a source of "griefing" and abuse. This is what makes it such an explosive and divisive topic. Quietus has done an amazing job in balancing this highly abusable skill, so kudos to him for some excellent work.
I'd like to take a moment to offer some guidance on the subject of roleplaying a pickpocketing incident. Hopefully some of this will help you to roleplay your involvement in such an event, if one occurs.
As a pickpocket, you have responsibilities with regard to your skill, so that it doesn't turn into a distasteful event for both parties. As mentioned above, first check the victim to see if they are level-appropriate for this event. We don't want new players coming in and getting robbed in their first ten minutes on the server, and we don't want people being picked by hopelessly stronger individuals. Your attention to the "No PP of "effortless" players" is critical. Now that we've got that out of the way, let's talk about some RP concepts...
First and foremost, pickpocketing should be a tool for roleplaying, not as an income source. If you think you're going to get crazy rich pickpocketing in Vives, you should either be server-shopping, or playing another class.
Thoughts for the thief
The Mark
Pickpockets would never think of trying to hit the same "mark" more than once in a particular incident. Don't steal more than one item from your target. Besides being bad form, the PP scripts will punish you, and the incident will be logged for DM review. One successful attempt per target per RL day (24 hours) is allowed.
Items Gained
Be sensitive to the items you've gotten as a result of your action. If you got a handful of gold coins obviously there's not a real problem, since gold is easily replaced. However, if you got something that may have some kind of sentimental value to the player, be considerate. give your victim a good RP way to get it back. Ransom it. Let them intimidate you into returning it, if it fits the situation. "Drop" it while running away. Don't just be a jerk and run off with it.
When you're caught
When you're caught, you're caught. Don't just mindlessly run across half the server. Admit you're caught, and either negotiate the item back, or just outright give it back with an "I'm sorry" I'm not going to tell you how to RP it, because there are too many ways to even list here. Just don't be a jerk. One more thing, Don't log off in the middle of an unresolved PP incident! I'll say this just one time. Logging off in the middle is GRIEFING, no ifs, ands or buts. It will absolutely be treated as such.
Thoughts for the victim
Use your senses
Aside from grief thieving, this may be one of the most problematic areas of pickpocketing, funny it comes from the victim side of the equation, isn't it? Please stay within the detection you get from the engine. If you did not detect the pickpocket, don't accuse them of doing it. Really. This is the beginning of the downward OOC spiral that kills the RP of the incident. Yes, I know it sucks to lose an item, but it is part of the game. If it's a really sentimental thing, send the player a tell and explain it to them. Ask a DM to get involved if you don't get cooperation. We can see what was taken, and we can address it if it becomes a real problem. This does not mean that every item in your pack can suddenly become "sentimental" in value. Be realistic, and bite the bullet if you need to. DMs will be fair to both parties in this type of situation. We expect all the thieves on this server to act appropriately in this regard. We also expect the victims to act appropriately.
Roleplay!
As a player that plays mostly rogue characters, some of which have been known to lighten a pocket, I can tell you that from the proper thief's perspective, most times you have a full opportunity to retrieve your item if you roleplay with the thief. Becoming a jerk is the quickest way to get your item sold to the nearest vendor. Killing the thief is not an option here, unless you can coordinate with a DM very quickly under the guidelines of the PvP rules. Try to be creative with your roleplay with the thief. Go to the guards, if you're in the city. Talk to the thief. Use intimidation, use your imagination. Go ahead and plot revenge even, within the guidelines already set forth elsewhere. Don't just start whacking away.
Now, I know lots of this stuff didn't even need to be said on a server with some of the most amazing roleplayers I've ever seen, but with a touchy subject it's good to have some constructive dialogue about it. We now have yet another aspect to our roleplay, and another great chance to distinguish ourselves from the other PWs that exist out there. Have fun!
**edit for clarification** You are allowed one successful pickpocket per victim, per 24 RL hours. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: PPing Guidelines
Posted: 08 Jan 2004 01:39 AM |
well q posted 1 sucessfull PP per 24 hours and Landru said 1 attempt per 24 hours. I'll go with q's first post and only count times when yuo actually recieve an item.
Secondly you sure can run halfway across the server, well depends where you are. If you in midor obviously not, i'm prety sure the guards will block your exit from the city when they see someone chasing someone yelling "STOP THE THIEF". But if your wandering in the woods and someone detects you and you get something i dont see why you cant run. Fighters have knockdown to knock you down (dont use well you have to let him catch up to try as an arguement because do you realy think a fighter in 50lbs of plate mail can run as fast as a rogue wearing .5lbs of clothing [maybee 1 lb of armour] )? I'd think not. Besides there are plenty of ways to knock someone down (knockdown, a ranged weapon with stun or daze, hold person, fear, noxious cloud, cloud of bewilderment, ect.) Plenty of ways pluss if someone does get away you can alwayse come after them later.
You realy cant make PP all cheery for the victims so its best not to try. Ransoming items back is fun, mainy cause you cant sell stolen items and if they are of no use to you then you might aswell try and get something that is out of it. Of course, if ransoming something back that they dont know "YOU" took in the first place ever leads to any kind of negative consequences then PP'rs are going to be unwilling to do something like that. Secondly i guarantee people will treat you differently if you randsome something back so does it realy seem fair to require people to do that if they got away without being seen?
Well since i guarantee that some anti pp anti PvP person is going post "You dang well better ransome it back and were going to force you too" i might aswell suggest a way to randsome it back without anyone knowing you stole it in the first place. I think if you DM's are going to require this then you SHOULD take up the task of making a CPC or something who's job it is to inform people X item is stolen and you have to give up Y in order to give it back and then make the exchange without ever informing the victim who the thief was. I believe that is the only "FAIR way to do something lilke that assuming the thief was not seen by anyone.
And i do not see why the midorian officials would give a rats a$ about someone trying to PP you in the buckshire ruins. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: PPing Guidelines
Posted: 08 Jan 2004 02:14 AM |
First of all, did I say anybody was required to ransom back an item? No. What I said was that we expected people to play responsibly and not be jerks.
Did I say that the midor guards were going to care if a PP incident occured in Buckshire ruins? No. I said if you're in a city, call a guard. I presented that as a possible RP OPTION.
Apparently I have to explain everything that I said, so let's take it a step further, so that people who cant draw inferences can understand. I said don't run halfway across the server. In perfect literal terms this means don't drag out fleeing all over the place for an hour. Where the hell is the fun in that? These are the kindsof things that makes the whole thing distasteful. I said PPing is meant to be a RP TOOL. Where's the RP in running all over the place?
Secondly, I find it rather irritating that every time we roll out a policy on this server, the thanks we get is a bunch of nay-saying, rules-lawyering types of posts that attempt to deconstruct everything that was laid out. Not an hour has passed since the guideline and some RP recommendations have been posted, and already an inflammatory, confrontational type post in response.
I'm really frustrated here. Because I play a rogue in my player role (who doesn't PP anyone, BTW), and represent the god Swiftfoot in one of my DM roles, I was looked to to represent the chaotic types in this regard. I lobbied hard to have pickpocketing included within the game AT ALL, in addition to my other representation of the chaotic types on the server. The guidelines were posted, I presented some RP advice in the hopes of having a mature discussion of the topic. What I get in response you can read above. <sarcasm>I can tell you that it really makes me want to advocate for the thieves in the future.</sarcasm> |
Question Authority! |
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