| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Display using:
|
|
IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 04:30 PM |
As you know Hans and Rachel gave birth to a child, yet we are encountering a problem with time. We want the children to grow up, and we have stopped playing on Vives for three weeks, just to show that Rachel and Hans have been hard at work taking care of their children. Now, I hear from Dens that Vives goes by RL time, and if three RL weeks pass then our chars only get three weeks older. If this is true, this doesnt allow any chars to die from old age, and doesnt allow new chars to be born, instead of wandering from other lands. This greatly limits our RP and I want to know what you guys think of it. We need to come up with a solution because with new children being born, and old people dying out, what kind of world is Vives? I can answer that, its not a living, breathing world like it says in the OOC area in the beginning, it is a world stuck in the same moment in life where nothing grows.
Post your opinions on this subject!
~Rach |
|
|
  |
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 04:52 PM |
well it can't really go by RL time, cuz for every few hours in RL, a few days go by within the Vives world, if you go by the rising and setting sun as your inernal Vives clock. Not sure what we could say about this, other than for kids and such, at least give it a week or two for them to be born, and the same for growing up and such...takes time, but not as exagerated as in RL...
~Fenarisk |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 04:55 PM |
I agree, but the topic is more on the big view, people aging and dying, children being born and raised. Like Hans and Rachels' daughters, for example. Maybe I didn't really make that clear.. I was just kinda rambling in that first post =P
Oh and what you said about the two weeks thing. Hans and I did that, and Dens said it wouldn't work out, so I just wanted to get some opinions so I don't so something stupid.. When a DM says something, I don't like to defy him unless I got the view of a large amount of people.. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 04:57 PM |
Problem with taking into effect standard times and such means we gotta start perma-deathing people or taking off stats over time due to old age and the like, and people are as keen on that as a character wipe...
~Fenarisk |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 05:00 PM |
Won't we all enjoy the day we see someone says, "CHARACTER WIPE?!?! YAAAAAAAAAAY!!" (Without Sarcasm)
But thats besides the point. My point is we have to someone solve this problem of aging because if old people dont die, then children cant grow. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 05:02 PM |
Just because old people do not die doesn't mean they grow older or even have magical means of sustaining their lives. While we want persistency we also want an enjoyable GAME experience, so give it a few weeks and assume they are all grown up and such...sometimes realism detracts from fun, sometimes it adds...just need to find the right order.
Everyone grows, in many aspects. THe children can just be more noticible (Lot different between ages 1 and 20 than ages 21-40)
~Fenarisk |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 05:05 PM |
| Yeah, thats what Hans and I did, we waited like a week before and three weeks after our wedding to have these children be able to enter Vives as adventurers. The excuse for our absense on Vives for the past three weeks can be explained by, "We were taking care of our children, who are now old enough to go out on their own and adventure" |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 05:07 PM |
First thing, I will say I might have been mistaken - maybe it is not 1 RL day for 1 IG day.. maybe it it 2 or 4 IG days in one RL day.. but this goes for the same..
One cant decide his char got older by 15 years, while the other char's got older by 3 weeks -
this is just saying 'lets throw away presistancy'.
In the IRC you said the chars live by NWN's clock.. just one question -
How many of your chars (talking to everyone): goto sleep every 24 RL minutes? (this is without even mentioning - how many chars actually sleep more than 1 hour?)
How many of your chars, talk so fast that in 2 RL minutes, they cover a whole hour IG?
How many of your chars get older by one day each 48 minutes?
I dont think any.
This is insane to 'live' IG by NWN's clock, and no one act according to it..
(just a note - that probably most of the non elven chars and NPCs were dead allready if we were playing like that)
all the chars get older by the same ammount of time, this doesnt depends on time you spent IG - cuz then again - all those who play 1 hour a day will see those that play 10 dying in front of their eyes..
you can find many magical reasons that will explain why one's char gets older faster..
but these reasons are suposed to be approved by the DMs.
you cant just decide you want your char to get older faster - what about the other chars?
we cant throw away presistancy, but if we keep it, and time does go faster - it means that there are chars that got old, think diffrently, cant wield their swords, cant walk through the woods unharmed again etc etc .. and probably some were dead allready..
the only reason that one char will move faster would probably magical - and will happen by approvment of the DMs.
the only reason that -all- Vives will have a time jump, will depend on probably all DMs, the current plot of Vives (not quests, what happens to vives itself) the history etc etc .
for example - if there will be a WW in vives.. and then there will be a need to move things a bit..
there might be a time jump - and then 'after the war was over, the dirt has been cleaned etc etc. you wake up one morning as life continue - five years later' and then each one will have his chars' time jumped : 'Tom got into the smuggling businesses, and he is now filthy rich - but in prison' or 'Tom got older, the war touched him. he retired to his humble home - passing his days in peace and quiet as he draw flowers and read books'
doh i did too much things while trying to post this - hope it came out allright..
and yeah Fen, maybe 1 day compared to 1 day is not the best thing..
but as I said.. if you will live IG as nwn's clock - most of your chars were quite dead allready..
and even so - if 3 weeks means 9 monthes : all chars got older by 9 monthes. (and that if the child was .. err.. created on the day they got married)
while most folks thinks it goes somewhat by RL time.. or along the lines of RL time.
if i am not wrong it means there are not so few chars/NPCs that would retire/die if time goes that fast.
and btw.. how come 3 weeks will be 9 months.. and then 'a couple more weeks' will be 15 years?!?!
it's just saying ' allright everyone gets old as fast as he want' this is not presistant.. we will have chars dying and getting born while cities stand, while gaurds are still on duty.. etc etc..
and last thing - if Barnas wasnt allowed to create one char's child because of the time problem.
and he tried to find explenations, but these didnt work out and eventually he didnt make the char.
I dont see why one could make the char while other cant.
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 05:10 PM |
*adds birth control to the main city water supply within Midor and Port Royale*
There, problem solved .
~Fenarisk |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 05:14 PM |
Who says if old people don't die, children can't grow? Where's the willing suspence of disbelief gone?
Hmm, well... it would seem a little odd, but I've a feeling few are going to like an anti-climatic death of old age to be forced upon their characters. Hell, unless it's a arch balor called 'Old-age' I wouldn't want Soaps to die of it myself. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 05:16 PM |
well it can't really go by RL time, cuz for every few hours in RL, a few days go by within the Vives world, if you go by the rising and setting sun as your inernal Vives clock. Not sure what we could say about this, other than for kids and such, at least give it a week or two for them to be born, and the same for growing up and such...takes time, but not as exagerated as in RL...
~Fenarisk
We didnt just throw the idea of children in one day, we planned this out and we waited for 4 RL weeks for these children to be born. Also, the first few days before the wedding were the 9 months, and days after the wedding Rachel gave birth to the twins. The three weeks after the wedding were for the 12-15 years in which they grew up. I think this all should be fine and that there should be no problem for Angora and Kelly to be 15 after 4 RL weeks of waiting. It was all well planned out in my opinion. The main issue here is people getting older and dying. We cant have children growing yet their parents not growing any older. That wouldn't be right. What we need to do is make a universal aging process in Vives, which would be kinda cool. If by some magical means a char stays alive longer than a normal person would, then so be it, that is their RP. For instance, in Lord of the Rings, Bilbo Baggins lived much longer than a normal hobbit because of the 'One Ring'. Perhaps if someone had a magical item or spell of some sort, they could live longer than others.
~Rach |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 05:21 PM |
how about a standardized time? ie. two months RL == 1 year IG
obviously something like this would need to be discussed to see where a happy medium would fall, but I am thinking if we are going to consider time like this we should have it standardised. I don't really like time warps, I think if something crazy happens it should affect the world, and the people in it, and the people react accordingly, as opposed to this happened and X amount of years went by, and here we are now. Also if we did go to the time jump who would decide what happened in those years? The dm's? the players? I think either way there would be a good bit of gnashing teeth. That's why I think a standardised time system would be best. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 05:22 PM |
| If we have universal aging in Vives, then Rachel was probably already beyond her child-bearing years before she even got married. Think about -that- one. ;) |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 06:09 PM |
Ok once again this is going to a personal field... I again see a general problem as this afects all players and chars IG.
IMO Dens is wrong 1 day RL cant be equal to 1 IG, and I explain.
Ig we have days, nights, and time isnt coherent, so like dens says when you talk time is very slow like RL time, but time IG isnt plain, then you can craft 30 bows in 2 secs RL, and talk for 2 hours RL about something, its obvious that craft 30 bows should take a long time more then that chat that took 2 RL hours for sure but its the game mechanics..How could one learn so much in one day if RL = IG time, its possible to get some levels in only one day at least 4 or 5 its very possible so it is reasonable to think someone can learn so much in one day? Course not! Though Dens has a point there no one comes to this world 1.73 tall, with long hair, and talking: So what to do? Should we have a RL time in rules saying if someone gives birth you have to wait X time RL, till he can played like a walking being (lol)? Or we could have it better RPed then rachel would play a half ling till lets say level 6 (it would represent a child size) and then DM would transfer the xp from the child char to the adult char, and course make sure she wouldnt make any double quests etc... But time IG is a very serious issue, its not something to be taken lightly, we are in a game and its the never land, your char wont die cuz he is too old, then your char can grow and be Rped like that, but it seams we need some rules for it cuz opinions between DM's are diferent and between DM and players are diferent aswell, so once again WE players need to know what lines to folow.
Just my 2 cents |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 06:18 PM |
2 RL minutes == 1 Vives hour
-Q |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 06:22 PM |
Well here we go 2 RL minutes = 1 hour in vives, so 1 hour RL = 30 hours IG.
So base your RP in this and stop the crap =) |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 06:32 PM |
| so, by that 12 days RL would be approximately 1 year in Vives |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 06:42 PM |
again,
Rachel - you cant decide that cuz you want your char to have a baby all the others got 9 monthes older in few days.. and then 15 years..
it doesnt work like that.. and it means you will be playing your 15 y/o char for few weeks.. then after playing her for 2 monthes you will see she is 45 allready..
and btw, even if we go by NWN's clock - which is 30 times faster than hour clock..
to raise them to the age of 15 you will need 6RL months..
and no matter how fast we will go.. we wont go like NWN's clock - so this will take more time..
and beside - I dont think the twins were born before the wedding.. nor several days after the wedding.. cuz no one IG knew about it.. no one IG knew Rachel was preg before the wedding..
IMO if ppl knew then she was kicked out of the order of light.
so it's not just moving the time cuz you decide so.. you also add things that you say happend IG that actually didnt.. if rachel was preg before the wedding you should have said it, at least posted on the forums.. cuz there would be a reaction from NPCs to these kinda things...
also I would say again - if you want a 'special' reason, for why angora and kelly are older than suposed to be, and you got a basic idea for why it is so - send a PM to all DMs, or better - you can PM Alo the contact person.
ok.. about Ice's post now.
allright - it's a problem with how much time takes to create an arrow .. but it is made in a way you wont get dang angry and need to wait 5 RL minutes to make a quiver of arrows..
also - afaik, saying she will get a halfling char untill getting to x lvl.. wont work.. few things -
first, it is possible to get 4 - 5 lvls in one day, and if you play all day you can get more, so she will grow up in one day.. which is even more not realistic.
second, you said she wont do any double quests.. so she cant get double xp - that means the char wont go any places, so she wont get disc xp twice, and wont fight anything cuz she will get that xp twice as well.. so, it means one of the following -
she wont be able to lvl beside by RP xp.. she wont be allowed to leave her 'home' area... and only then the xp will be moved to the new char (after reaching lvl 6 of course)
now.. if she -wont- transfer the xp, and she will be able to do all quests and things,
still - getting to lvl 6 will require some combat xp. now i can see some more problems:
what mother will let her child go fight goblins in order to 'grow' ?!?!?
since when, 0 - 15 y/o childs can wield a sword, fight older more experienced foes and win?!
(and allright.. maybe the 15 y/o can actually become a below avg fighter.. but since when a lvl 3 child that barely walk, knows how to fight with a dagger?!)
so basing this on lvl -wont- work.
also - yeah 2 minutes RL = 1 hour in NWN - but this is NWN's clock..
the only made the clock so that you will know how much time you have been playing and how much time is left to your spell..
and i'll finish with a qoute and some comments:
Well here we go 2 RL minutes = 1 hour in vives, so 1 hour RL = 30 hours IG.
So base your RP in this and stop the crap =)
when i will see you RPing like this :
when I will see your char going to sleep every ~24 minutes,
talk so fast, and doesnt stay up 'all night' for several days to get from point a to point b, and fight things on the way...
then i will play according to that clock.
and hey wait.. if someone rests for about what.. 30 seconds ? doesnt it means he rest for 15 minutes.. I think you need couple of hours.. lets make the resting time longer.. 10 minutes should do.. (after all your mighty heroes doesnt need much sleep, they should do with 5 hours)
afaik, that clock is NWN's time.. and if i am not wrong NWN's numbers are OOC ->
meaning using them IG are meta =P
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 07:17 PM |
Okay, because I can't make her look fat doesnt mean she isnt pregnant. Second, why would she be kicked out of the Order of Light because of giving birth? Is the cycle of life a sin? No one knew about it because they decided to keep it on the low, not to mention how little Hans and I were online during that period of time. That also explains why no one knew she was pregnant. I must admit, it wasnt as well planned as we had thought in the beginning, but thats mostly because I wasn't online often (Forums included). The week of the wedding I was popping in and out of mIRC and didn't have much other online activity because I was busy with my family and schooling etc. If I had more time on the forums and IG, many would know I was pregnant by looking at me waddle around Midor. BUT, I have something else to add. Why would Rachel be exerting herself if she was pregnant? My accidental absense actually proved to be a reasonable one. You wouldn't see a pregnant woman bashing zombies, would you? She was obviously at home most of the time resting. About the wedding, it was so short notice and I was trying to dual install my SoU at the last minute so I didnt have much time for anything. Also, she gave birth to the children a couple days after the wedding.
Also, not all the time is gonna be perfectly accurate like RL time, we gotta bend rules sometimes if we want to get anything done. So if we give it like 4 RL weeks, that should be sufficient to show that they were in the process of raising a child. It doesn't have to be EXACTLY right, it just has to generally represent the growth of a child, which personally, I think it did. If we did everything EXACT and PRECISE some things would lose all of its enjoyment. For instance, normally running from Port Royale to Buckshire wouldnt take one minute. It would take a couple days to travel a distance that large on foot. It is not well represented in NWN, which is the base problem for all these time issues, lack of representation.
Dens, most of your arguement lies in the lack of representation that NWN gives for its time. The time was actually supposed to mean something other than how long you have been playing seeing as how it always starts off at month 6 when you reset the server (at least in single player) There are so many problems with the IG time in relation to how long it will actually take. If we went precisely and exactly, then there would be no room for those nice 2 RL hour discussions you have in the inns. Basically, we are using the time in a loose manner to serve the purpose. Show X amount of time has passed. There is no other way to do this than pick a general amount of time and say okay, so and so will become this many years older if you just sit back and wait 4 or 5 weeks. We can't really do much about it and I can see a universal clock spawning a whole lot of new problems. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 07:48 PM |
Okay, because I can't make her look fat doesnt mean she isnt pregnant
You never said she looked fat.. not make her.. say she look fat..
she saw many folks.. how come -no one- saw her?
and ppl saw her, and if you didnt say she didnt look 'normal' then she looked normal - and was not preg.
Second, why would she be kicked out of the Order of Light because of giving birth?
oh.. I duno.. just because she was preg and gave birth - before the wedding?
No one knew about it because they decided to keep it on the low, not to mention how little Hans and I were online during that period of time. That also explains why no one knew she was pregnant.
you decided on getting married at least 2 weeks before the date, I think I have seen you a couple of times IG together - and agian, nothing looked diffrent.
must admit, it wasnt as well planned as we had thought in the beginning, but thats mostly because I wasn't online often (Forums included). The week of the wedding I was popping in and out of mIRC and didn't have much other online activity because I was busy with my family and schooling etc. If I had more time on the forums and IG, many would know I was pregnant by looking at me waddle around Midor. BUT, I have something else to add. Why would Rachel be exerting herself if she was pregnant? My accidental absense actually proved to be a reasonable one.
yeah.. but even if we go according to the NWN's clock which is way too fast - you were IG less then 9 monthes before the wedding and thus ppl saw you.. again.. nothing was diffrent then the usual rachel.
Also, she gave birth to the children a couple days after the wedding.
maybe I missread but I think you wrote she gave birth before the wedding..
and again.. if she gave birth -after- the wedding.. and only couple of days after..
everyone at the wedding were suposed to notice it..
we gotta bend rules sometimes if we want to get anything done
not sure about that, but even if so, you cant just bend a rule..
you need the one who enforce them to accept it - or else you will get a fine.. or into jail or what ever. - here afaict the DMs enforce the rules.. even if we or you dont like it..
if a rule need to be bend - ask the DMs first.
The time was actually supposed to mean something other than how long you have been playing seeing as how it always starts off at month 6 when you reset the server
no, it is exactly to see how much time passed and how much time left for the spell.
. If we went precisely and exactly, then there would be no room for those nice 2 RL hour discussions you have in the inns. Basically, we are using the time in a loose manner to serve the purpose.
right - that's why 1 day RL that equals up to 1 day IG is the best.. IMO
because if someone playes 2 hours a day.. and someone else plays 5 hours a day.
they both played, and both of their chars were there for an IG day..
allright, this wont work with movement.. so i can understand doing 1 day RL = 4 days IG or something.. but faster than that? maybe up to 6 ...
cuz again - no one acts like his char goto sleep every x amount of time..
Dens, most of your arguement lies in the lack of representation that NWN gives for its time.
I dont think so, but maybe i didnt phrase my thougts too well..
my main idea is that you cant just decide time jumps.. and that it -cant- move diffrently on other chars...
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 08:15 PM |
2 RL minutes == 1 Vives hour
-Q
Do I need to say more? |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 11:20 PM |
Well, all I can say it, having just experienced it, is that is is mind-boggling to have someone come up to you IG and tell you that you've aged 15 years when you thought maybe a couple of months had gone by.
It's also inconsistant to then not acknowledge that you'll be dead in another 30 years while the person who you are talking to has a lifespan in the hundreds.
So, issues of children or not aside, I think forcing one character's time-frame on another doesn't work. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 26 Dec 2003 11:46 PM |
| I belive this is something for these cases like Rachel's one, so that she can have something that alow her to say more or less a logical time for Angora to apear IG. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 27 Dec 2003 01:49 AM |
About the Vives time vs. Real time..
I'm sorry, but if everything, and I mean everything, has to be perfectly real, and I mean perrrrfect, then, in real time:
I have to spend 16 minutes sleeping.
I have to eat during at least 3 minutes.
Doing the nature's call during 1 minute.
I have to put my armor (a full plate, alone?!? o_O) during 4 minutes.
Washing my sword during 1 minute.
Take a bath during 1 minute.
On a total of 48 minutes. Let's calculate: I have to spend 26 minutes to do the "real" things everyone do for every 48 minutes of play. And I have 22 minutes left to adventure. Oh, and bandages takes more time to heal a wound then 1 second...
Sorry to be a bit rude (It is not my intention!) but we must admit that it is a wee bit excessive to make all that...Remember, this is only a game. Persistency is something I truly enjoy here, but come on, we can't just speak for 2 minutes!!! :)
For Rachel's problem, I think that it's a bit fast to have a baby, raised then to play this girl... |
Frodo : What are we holding on to, Sam?
Sam : That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it’s worth fighting for.
-The Two Towers |
|
|
|
|
Re: IG Time vs. RL Time. What do we do?
Posted: 27 Dec 2003 04:30 AM |
2 RL minutes == 1 Vives hour
-Q
Do I need to say more?
Ice,
after he wrote this we were talking in the IRC about it, and decided it is too fast.
(maybe i am wrong, but i do think ppl were talking about 1 / 2 hours here for 1 day IG [which is still IMO too fast])
Well, all I can say it, having just experienced it, is that is is mind-boggling to have someone come up to you IG and tell you that you've aged 15 years when you thought maybe a couple of months had gone by.
yep,
untill now i thought the IG time is like the RL time - ppl kept saying 'yesterday' or a 'week ago'
not to mention 'three days from now' on schedueld events.
it's much more simple that way and you can - and most ppl does - ignore the sunsets and dawns IG: they pick up one a day and sleep (or whatever they do at night =p)
and yes, that's why we need to set a time frame so ppl wont tell others that x amount of time passed while they thougt and were sure y amount of time passed.
(while nothing is not defined)
So, issues of children or not aside, I think forcing one character's time-frame on another doesn't work.
unlese it is global and needed for Vives.
(Again, if there was a major event and then you do a lil time jump)
I belive this is something for these cases like Rachel's one, so that she can have something that alow her to say more or less a logical time for Angora to apear IG.
I am not sure what this one was connected to..
but I will say this again, unlese the time frame is defined and it is allowed by the time frame,
(and not Ice, 2 minutes RL == 1 Hour in Vives - in that small clock on the bottom right that doesnt matter for everything beside scripts and checks)
the char cannot be made, and I dont think, the whole server should be jumped because one or two players want to have children, I dont think it will be jumped even if all the players will want to have children and it wont be needed (needed for the main plot)
Sorry to be a bit rude (It is not my intention!) but we must admit that it is a wee bit excessive to make all that...Remember, this is only a game. Persistency is something I truly enjoy here, but come on, we can't just speak for 2 minutes!!! :)
well, maybe i missunderstood but you can, and most ppl does, talk more than 2 minutes.
For Rachel's problem, I think that it's a bit fast to have a baby, raised then to play this girl...
yep, especially while the time frames are inconsistant (few days = 9 monthes and then few weeks = 15 years?) and are not global.
also.. not too connected to the subject..
I, no..
We do not like 'threats' that if things wont be done this or that way, players will leave.
You want to leave, we will show you the door.
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|