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Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 12:49 PM |
| This is continued from the contract killing thread because i dont want to hijack it. I dont realy want to repeart everything so just post anything you want to say here. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 05:31 PM |
I don't get the question...is this how the staff/nature/gods view it, or how the player views it, or how characters view it?
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 06:10 PM |
I thought it was that the DC had to be a difference of 6 if you get to have the animal till it dies or only for a short amount of time. It also ends when you rest. I look at it like a concentration thing, when you lose concentration or the animal has a strong constitution the time you can use it to aid you is less. Also if you have a lot of concentration regarding the skill you can control the animal for a much longer time.
With a passion, Sion |
When in doubt, mumble. When in trouble, delegate. |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 06:18 PM |
I'll take a stance on this from how I interpret the skill myself:
It depends upon alignment of the Druid. A Good aligned druid obviously will attempt to make friends with the animal, using a natural empathy to garner its trust and to take care of it/attempt to commune with it or use it towards the advantage of good. Neutral Druids would also pretty much fit into this category.
An evil aligned druid would quite obviously use nature as a means to and end of evil, so he would more than likely be attempting to dominate the animal, or to use a false empathy to use it for greedy, selfish reasons, so it really depends on how th Druid acts within his life and in regards to how he views Nature: As a mother, or as a tool to his own means.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 06:35 PM |
| My only concern is that animals go berserk and run wild after the domination ends (if they are one of the animals that are normally hostil but turn friendly if you are druid or ranger of suddicient level). This only applies if they are one of the animals affected by the system they added for them to go friendly to druids and ranger if they are of sufficient level. I'm not talking about the mechanics behind the skill or anything like that. They way it is now you can use empathy on something like a grizzly bear (which is normally hostile to everyone else) and leave it somewhere inappropriate (in the great plains) and some newbie will get killed by it. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 06:54 PM |
So this is bug reporting?
With a passion, Sion |
When in doubt, mumble. When in trouble, delegate. |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 07:00 PM |
So this is bug reporting?
With a passion, Sion
maybee, if it is in fact a bug. Might be the way it was intended. I have no idea, just want to know what everyone thinks it should do. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 08:11 PM |
ok i think i got you now. when a bear sees a ranger or druid it becomes friendly. Now, that seems logical that the bear sees the ranger or druid as friends of the forest and doesn't want to hurt or fight with them. Now I see animal empathy as a way of controling the animal against it's will. so when the animal comes back to self-control, however that may be, it will be pissed and try to kill you.
With a passion, Sion |
When in doubt, mumble. When in trouble, delegate. |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 08:46 PM |
| I guess i just see it as a way of convincing the animal to help you out of its own free will. Empathy in itself is feeling the pain of others. I just dont think it is a hostile skill. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 17 Nov 2003 10:24 PM |
I'm pretty sure its a deep-coded bug within the code for animals being auto-friendly to druids and rangers that gets mixed up due to parties and allys.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 18 Nov 2003 06:12 AM |
| So do AE'd animals always go angry after you AE them? If so it's probably a bug relating to attacks... it considers the AE as an attack which makes it go red after the charm or domination wears off, or something like that. |
Eh? |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 18 Nov 2003 10:52 AM |
| My very vague recollection of how Charm Person worked in other CRPG is that you could expect the person to be mad as hell after it wore off. Why should a reasonably intelligent animal feel any different? |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 18 Nov 2003 11:04 AM |
Animals aren't exactly bursting with intelligence when they have a rating of two. Charmed people usually remember what they did when they were charmed, but that's not the issue here. If they were hostile before you dominated or charmed them (charmed stand by and watch, dominated fight with you) then they'll revert to being hostile - just like anyone else you charm or dominate.
If they're neutral and go hostile after the effects worn off, then it's a bug... |
Eh? |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 18 Nov 2003 11:12 AM |
| I can't look at a cat or dog in RL and agree that they aren't intelligent enough to know you messed with their minds and made them do something against their nature. For example, I have petted a feral tomcat who was distracted by food that I offered. He arched his back in pleasure but after the food was gone he realized that I was touching him and he reacted in a decidedly hostile manner when he was not hostile before the encounter. I can imagine this as analagous to charming an animal in fantasy. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 18 Nov 2003 11:19 AM |
Animal empathy isn't dominating an animal, IMHO. It's a careful bonding of trust. If the druid/ranger successfully empathises with the animal, the animal will not see them as a threat. Sadly, it is implemented as dominate, which I think is wrong.
And yeah Slink, I've had similar fun with cats on Greece :) |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 18 Nov 2003 11:42 AM |
And yeah Slink, I've had similar fun with cats on Greece :)
You're greasing up Cats to do what now?
Yeah, it kinda sucks that when you use animal empathy on a animal that would normally be hostile to everyone, but had become neutral to you do to class or AE levels, will become hostile after releasing them from the AE effect. Unfortunatly, unless there is some hook that will allow a script to fire and recheck for AE levels and class after release, I dont know if there is an easy way to fix this without sticking added onHeartbeat scripts to the animals. I'll leave that to Q and Aria to say if its possible.
I do agree that, as it would be if in PnP (at least my imagination of it since I've never played anything but CRPG), AE is not a domination, but, as many have stated, an empathic bonding between the PC and the animal. The creature would not be under the explicit control of the PC, but would help the PC in his/her immediate needs. I would think that a normally hostile creature that has been AE'd (for lack of a better verb) would stay neutral to the PC long after the effect had worn off. All of these would of course depend on the DC of the creature (its ornerieness check if you will  )
They way it is now you can use empathy on something like a grizzly bear (which is normally hostile to everyone else) and leave it somewhere inappropriate (in the great plains) and some newbie will get killed by it.
Thats the way it would be regarless of any changes that have been, or could be made to the current system. If some mean druid were to plunk an AE'd grizz down into the Great Plains, unsuspecting newbies would be attacked by it (and DM's would be upset by it). However, with Aria's system, if that mean druid were to come back, it would have the onPercieve check of class and AE levels reapplied and the grizz would probably be neutral to the druid yet again. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Animal empathy: Forced domination or willingly
Posted: 19 Nov 2003 07:00 AM |
| It has to be domination, otherwise they wouldn't fight with you. If you ever use Charm person or Monster they just stop fighting you, if you use Dominate you control their mind and they fight for you. |
Eh? |
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