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Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 05:43 PM |
I just thought of a question. I was reading that the highest level character here is only 16 after 500+ hours of play, and single digit deaths.
Is Vives going to implement the Epic Levels rules and monsters (and xp) that will be coming out with HotU?
I've never played with epic rules or an epic level character, and I think it would be great fun to try it out here. However, if no one ever gets to level 20, that would be impossible.
Just wondering! |
Danariel Moonbow
"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." ~Robert A |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 05:47 PM |
There are definately PCs above 16. At least one.
And I'd estimate that one of my PCs would have the potential to go epic with another... oh... 300-400 hours?
As for Epic Levels on Vives.. be good to see them. Would be a token gesture though, seeing as for the time it takes to level.
All IMHO,
-Barnas |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 05:50 PM |
| I'm against Epic levels Unless theres going to be a rp reason for them aka new gods and patheons and such I just dont see the sense of one character being able to take on a army... |
"...Another day passes and I slip further from reality..." |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 07:21 PM |
| I don't see much of a problem with epic levels. Xp gains are very slow by that stage and I don't have any problems with the concept of epic levels in Vives. If we get too many reaching that lev we can always kill some off >:) |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 08:45 PM |
| I'm somewhat neutral on this, though leaning towards no epic levels. I've never seen them used anywhere before, so I've no basis for an argument on epic levels in general, but what I've seen of the stuff Bioware is releasing, and what I've heard from others, the epic levels/spells in HotU seem rather uberfied. But also, as Pugs states, I seriously doubt anyone will get to 20, let alone 21. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 11:07 PM |
It'll never happen. Period. The highest level at the moment is 17 I believe (18 at most), and that is with extreme luck and having played almost 1,000 hours within Vives if my numbers are correct. Even with added areas and new CNR, on top of other items which may add to the total experience pool, I don't think Vives will ever see a level 20, and if we do it'll only be due to heavy DM plotlines to aid such level progression. Without heavy DM aid, you'll never get above 16 as it is. Getting above 20 isn't going to happen, and in all honesty, epic levels are really, really boring and mundane (I played with epic levels in a PnP campaign, it wasn't anything special as most classes just get ludicrously strong without many extra special abilities as per their classes).
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 12:29 AM |
| I would love to see epic levels... I think the creators and DMs of this server could really make it fun and interesting...besides i dont think anyone epic could still survive half the stuff in vives..hehe. |
ONWARD AND UPWARD! |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 03:11 AM |
| I think Epic levels are a ton of crap. If you wanna be an epic hero, raise an army, lead it, win against another army, and don't die. Make it one hell of a glorious battle, and then, MAYBE you'll have a bard sing some tale of your exploits. That's all there really is to the epic-ism. If you wanna be famous, raise an army and find an enemy. |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 04:58 AM |
I don't mind epic levels. Everyone hates them. That I've noticed. I myself, however, do not. They don't add anything to RP. Let's get that straight right away. You don't get new RP options because you're epic: Though some things which can happen to epci characters and not to non epic ones lead to some great adventures and RP.
Examples? Rescue some poor bugger from Fierna. A non epic group probably couldn't do it, but and epic group can go into the interesting and new environment which are the hells and go and save the guy. Woohoo. That's probably not the best example, though.
Better examples of RP coming from epic type power would responsabilities which get placed on the characters. Epic cleric becomes chosen of deity, and has to act exactly as the deity would want the whole time. I had a character who was chosen of Shar. Was great RP, since he has to reconcile his faith, responsability, then desire in that order. "Sorry, I can't help you go and get the treasure, I have to go and slaughter Selunites today" Sort of effect. Phrased better, more in context ETC... but the idea's still there.
Another example would be an epic (Though this doesn't need epic, I suppose) character gaining a position of power, and then having the RP which comes from that... I suppose we can all think of a few RP environements which high lvl/epic characters can be exposed to whereas others could not.
So yeah... that's why I don't think epic levels are "A load of crap" or anything to that effect.
All IMHO, as usual,
-Barnas |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 05:30 AM |
It's going to be interesting as to what will happen to levelling over the coming Weeks...... I'm adding in quite a few largish updates, starting this Weekend, with new monsters, areas and Quests (there will be more Quests too after the areas are in, if I (or even better, someone else :P)
A number of these are lower level type areas, as requested, however quite a large proportion are geared to higher levels and/or groups of mid-high level characters. As such I will be keeping a close eye on experience gains and proression of some of our higher level players to see if this makes a difference.
We have tried to avoid this server becoming just full of level 20 characters with flaming Swords, and make progression a tad different. I am not necessarily against epic levels and such, although I admit I know little about them really, as long as it doesn't unbalance gameplay in Vives, and mean we have hundreds of characters who can go round soloing Dragons.
Cheers
Arathon |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 05:37 AM |
An epic level is just too powerful. Once you get that high, you might as well become a member of the Vivian Pantheon.
You can be epic without being Uber. Epic according to BioWare is Lvl 21+, Epic according to me is "Leader of an Army" "WWI Ace" "Hunter-Killer Sub Captain" They can be epic and still mortal. BioWare epic borders immortality. |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 09:29 AM |
Loli feels a strange tingle in the hilt of her Flaming Sword, and moves quickly behind a large rock from which position she can watch for Big Birds or any other strange manifestations.
;) |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 09:44 AM |
| I have nothing against epic levels, as long as they are earned. I know this goes back to the whole exp and level progression topic that we have had numerous times, but its worth noting again, especially with what Arathorn just told us. I still like to think of this place as an rp server first and foremost, and I would like to see that it is made sure that if one reaches epic level status, that they have done so primarily through rp and not just spending days upon days fighting the big monsters. |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 09:58 AM |
The EP decrease with number of kills already limits the progression that can be made by killing any size of monster. Believe me, when a Skrag is worth no more than a Goblin, you don't spend days upon days killing big monsters just in order to level.
19th level character upon killing 200th Goblin for the day: "Oooo, only 18,800 more Goblins to go." ;) |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 10:10 AM |
I don't see any problems with epic levels at first sight. First of all it'll take us all ages to even get there. As Slink writes, killing big baddies will not do the trick. The only way to ever get to those levels will be through roleplay imho.
I can certainly see Dias turning towards a cleric of Theus as he values knowledge. But at the moment I'm not even dreaming of epic levels. I'm fairly happy with my recently acquired 12th level which came a bit as a surprise. I can only wait for level 13 to arrive in the same fashion: unexpected ;) |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 10:26 AM |
| My opinion is like Fen's, No epic. I saw the efect of epic levels.... The diference between some chars is so big so big when you are 20 and other is 5 or 6, and we should say that most of the chars in vives are around 6, 7 lvl, that making this diference bigger would really kill RP. Vives is a server where you find a litle more of reality, thats why getting levels is so dificult, and killing monster just to get xp doesnt work. This is a RP server your char gets xp from adventuring, from quests, from RP, from extraordinary actions.... And despite the fact he can get to lvl 20 and be very, very strong he is still human... Epic like Bioware is doing it makes chars something more then human, like demi-gods or something. Even 20 is a bit to hight but I think that in the original NWN chars were made to get to level 20 and get some features...So it should be limit to 20 and no epic stuff. Like someone said if you want to be Epic, gather a grp of friends and make something that no one else has ever done, kill the impossible Dragon.... But please dont make NWN in a DAoC thing with 40 lvl and a gap between chars so big that players will be thirsty of levels.... |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 10:43 AM |
| Perhaps it is more of the stigma of the term epic level that gets me riled up. I hear labels like that and it immediately makes me think of uber characters wearing their admantium armor, and wielding their +7 vorpal greatsword of killing all those that look at them funny. Wading through a horde of ancient red dragons and demon lords without getting scratched. Levels, and the abilities that come with them, are obviously an important part of the NWN environment. But what drew me, and I would guess many others that play here at Vives, to the game and this server in particular was the ability to develop a character beyond the label of level and class alone. As long as Vives continues to develop where my level is not the major consideration in the role I play within the game, I will be satisfied with whatever level cap is put in place. That I may only be 4th or 5th level matters little. My roleplay should dictate the power I wield within the game as hero, villian, scholar, or prophet. |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 11:21 AM |
Well.. IMO epic lvls can be fun, not only to the one plays the chars but to ther others as well..
If we say we allow epic lvls..
-but- you can only get to lvl 20 on 'your own' afer that you will need premission to continue 'lvling'
so only ppl who are trusted, and we know they will make it fun to everyone, will be able to play them..
also..
maybe the xp after lvl 20 should be -only- from DM rewards?
or maybe everyone that is premitted can get to epic lvl (after getting to lvl 20 on his own of course) and then he becomes a CPC ?
again, my take on epic lvls - they can add to the game.... but only authorized ppl should play them..
so it wont cause problems...
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 11:31 AM |
I'm with Dens - people who do start to push the Epic level boundaries should earn it. I, for one, am pretty looking forward to playing an Epic Level character, though I doubt any of mine will be epic for a very long time I think Epic level charaters could be used for some very good roleplaying. There's more things to Epic levels than going toe to toe with dragons.
Personally, I'm looking forward to HotU for the new prestige classes and the added customisable abilities. I'll be buying it for the robes, wings, tails and new heads alone. |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 11:53 AM |
wehn thinking about it...
Epic levels should have downsides.. i mean.. if someone can kill dragons.. and will be defeated by demons... he will just go around without any threat to his life (beside the epic monsters)
so what am i suggesting..
I think the epic monsters should Perma kill everyone they kill... well.. i dont mean really perma kill.. the victim wont be able to respawn - only be revived..
so those epic chars.. if they really wanna go to get some 'advnetures' and from the ooc part - they want to lvl.. they will have a risk of dying... cuz anyway.. when you die one time with such char, you will loose a hell lot of xp - which will mean you will be stuck..
also a thing (which i am not sure about) epic chars deathes might as well be unrespawnable.. since they barely die..
so IMO 'dying' is better.. and will also prevent every 20 lvl char (i am optimistic =p thinking we will have lvl 20 chars =p) asking to become epic -
when getting to lvl 20 your xp will be frozen.. and you can ask to continue lvling.. but if you do, you will have a chance of dying for good with your char..
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 12:10 PM |
As Re: Dragons.....
they should be imho the toughest monsters in any D&D campaign and feared by everyone. NOBODY will aver be able to solo all Dragons in Vives...... I'll make sure of that :P
Young ones and Wyrmlings maybe...... but then I can always start to make ancients muhahahaha |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 12:22 PM |
Yah, I'm with Arathon on that one. However, I also think a character really shouldn't be able to become epic. I think "epic-ness" should not be a level distinction, but the way you RP, the fame you earn in Vives, the mark you leave. If you get to lvl 25 and you're called "epic" and you leave, in 6 months only the ancient players will remember him/her. That's not epic. That's uber. To be truely "epic" you need fame. Fame is earned by leaving a mark. And leaving a mark is done by doing somthing completely new.
If every one of us people in Vives stayed for 3 years, our characters would be this Biowarian Epic. But we wouldn't be -truely- epic because if one were to leave, he or she would soon be forgotten by the newer people. And it's the newer people that make someone epic. Just because Gilmi and I have known each other for nigh on 5 months doesn't mean were epic. You gotta be famous to the newer ones to be "epic". Have the people that have been in Vives for half a month be talking and dreaming about "Tasra, the leader of the war on half-orcs" and trying to do something similar. Or "Hans, the uncaught murderer" (Just to name a couple posibilities :P) That's epic. And it's not Uber.
In my own not-so humble opinion. (I'm not a very humble person, can't you tell? :D)
*Signed in an illegible scrawl*
Tasra Amalayax,
Derfel Fastfoot,
Kaiser Lothar,
Hans Wilhelm and
Sophie Ascej |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 06:51 PM |
I do not see any problems with epic levels. There seem to be a lot of people posting solutions to the problems but no actual problems.
Epic levels will not be able to waltz around killing whatever they like. It doesn't matter HOW powerful you are the DM's can make something better. Oh.. you're a level 40 wizard, well there's an evil cabal of FIVE level 40 wizards... good luck. And besides, A level 10 PC can waltz around in the sewers with no threat to their lives already.
As for Epic levels killing RP. Huh? We have level 18's in the game now. My highest char is level 7. There's no way I could kill even a 15th lev char so anything higher is effectively epic to me already, but that hasn't stopped me RPing with them.
I think most of you are underestimating the DM's ability to deal with epics. Really, they're not any different to any other level char. |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 08:26 PM |
the problem I mostly see is cliched story lines aka the typical ( Player a:oh No deamons from another plane threaten humanity
nameless player: oh well didnt they do that last week? ) |
"...Another day passes and I slip further from reality..." |
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Re: Epic Levels and Hordes of the Underdark
Posted: 07 Nov 2003 09:28 PM |
| Pugs the problem for me is the one you just said. Atm with 20 levels we can see a damm big gap between levels and since in vives leveling is very slow I dont see how I would look at some thing lvl 30 being a lvl 6, and like you say even now a lvl 15 looks epic well then think about a levels 30....thats not epic thats a GOD. For me even a levels 20 is a God but ey NWN the original one was made like this and a char to be complete IMO should get to level 20. A levels 20 is a super hero thats why is so damm hard to get to level 10 and above. We can say whatever we wont but if your playing a char level 23 you wont party a level 6 and ey mate lets go adventure, I know a nice area that we can explore it just has some dragons.... Come on now we can see that kind of thing happening already higher levels party levels more or less compatible to they can face enemies of strenght they can both attack, and not something like one kill the other watchs and claps hands......In my land that would be powergaming. Of course that "Family RP" like I call it, being in the city chating and having the usual problems Im tired bla bla bla wont be afected.... But atm we can see few parties with diferent levels cuz the gap is big, now imagine an even bigger gap between levels....."I need to get to hight level cuz untill there I cant play the funny stuff kill dragons and so on..." You can say you dont think like this but do we need another example? I belive most of us where in some place where one day we could RP and now if you arent a level 20 your nothing, cuz being a level 15 or 17 isnt good enought...People always want the hard stuff, the funniest stuff...Please think twice before go on with this. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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