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Forums  > General  > General  > What did you like about the Vives implementation?     Display using: Flat View Threaded View   Oldest to newest Newest to oldest Previous Thread :: Next Thread   Author  Thread: What did you like about the Vives implementation?  pdwalker Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Total Posts: 5692 Send PM   What did you like about the Vives implementation? Posted: 16 Jul 2013 02:18 PM Given your experience with other PWs, 1/ what were the things you liked about Vives that other worlds didn't have? 2/ What were the things you liked in other worlds that Vives didn't have? Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly. -- "...Cause he mixes it with love And makes the world taste good." -- <@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.  pdwalker Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Total Posts: 5692 Send PM   on entering new areas... Posted: 16 Jul 2013 02:20 PM on_enter_area scripts that: - provided exploration xp - provided a description of that area to serve as a hint or warning to players. - after visiting an area enough times, the area would automatically be revealed to you automatically. It's a little feature, but really really cool. Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly. -- "...Cause he mixes it with love And makes the world taste good." -- <@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.  Glor-an-Fhaidha Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Total Posts: 317 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 16 Jul 2013 03:45 PM - Vives XP system, XP from locks, traps, spells ect. Can be hard to balance well though. - Built in faith system that allows you to collect 'prayers' from other PC's, and increases your power(Through your symbol as a necklace) - Fully customizable armor/weapons/clotthing/character! - Extra skills, sense motive, professions, ect - PRC's that fit the world. Can be a huge boon for increasing character diversity. - Combat stances!  Chief Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 549 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 16 Jul 2013 07:50 PM Vives -crafting -epic spell system -rogue xp Other servers -The more customization the better. -different animations. -underwater areas -Bulletin Board system and mail system ig -House rental system with deed -Persistant Community storage system ONWARD AND UPWARD!  Chief Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 549 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 16 Jul 2013 07:51 PM . ONWARD AND UPWARD!  Sirac Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Total Posts: 2510 Send PM   PDW and Ara Posted: 16 Jul 2013 08:19 PM Vives had...all of us, the vives community. Other places...didn't! K, if that's too simple and not quite on topic, Vives had pdw and Ara. That made such a difference. The number of times little ideas that would never have got off the ground really flew because of those 2. Death drinker, the flying demon possessed sword. Came from a conversation with pdw where I said something like wouldn't it be cool if we could put a dancing sword in game. And hey presto. Similarly with giantlings, I described the Russian doll style of critter, and pdw worked his magic. Nearing the end of opening Netharu, I said wouldn't it be cool if we could have wild magic sweep the lands...and boy did we! Those poor low level mages for the first few days!!! Changes to death and respawn xp. Much team discussion but again pdw made it happen. Basically there were so many examples of that man waving his techy wand and bringing our imaginings to life in Vives. There were countless other little pieces of magic he wove. And Ara built like a madman. It was all we could do sometimes for plots to keep pace with his building! Two of the biggest plots I was involved with as a DM came from him having huge updates he wanted to go live, and us scrambling to run a plot that would justify his amazing work. The opening of Netharu was the first. And then the three sisters battle and ensuing cataclysm that really did change the face of Vives. Sol and I frequently used to get lost trying to find somewhere after that little change!!! Cheers, Sirac 'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions.  Phoenix Joined: 08 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 942 Send PM   Re: PDW and Ara Posted: 16 Jul 2013 11:38 PM Pretty much what everyone else already said here... The on_area_enter scripts were simply marvellous. I loved the descriptions and the small amounts of XP. that alone helped non-combat characters a lot! Same with the crafting system. It was awesome for levelling up characters without doing much ombat and focussing more on the non-combat stuff. The players. No one mentioned those yet! The proliferation of areas! What I liked in other worlds: well aside from mods, the only other world I was on was Arbor Falls from Lord of Worms. It's beautifully created and has all of the stuff that Chief mentions (underwater, reskinned areas, etc). Combine Arbor Falls with Vives and it would be dreamy! Quite honestly, just look at Arbor Falls and you can't even tell that the game was made so long ago.... Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time. [Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven.  Bolgryn Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Total Posts: 165 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 17 Jul 2013 01:53 AM The XP system: exploration, casting, picking locks / traps, and then diminishing returns which encouraged you to explore and find new avenues of getting XP. I'll be very honest and say that I had a lot of fun powergaming the system, and figuring out the perfect combination of things to kill at what level to level. Areas - everything was beautiful, and areas that weren't were often changed in time to the newer hak tiles. Areas changed! An event in game or player actions could change how a place looked. Monster encounters: preparation mattered. Even if you knew what you were facing, you always had to prepare a contingency - new mobs popped up in places, they got different abilities, or a DM would spice it up! The RP limitations on some classes. Deeply fleshed backgrounds of their respective Orders / schools, or just the possibility of saying "I was a student at Ka'azim or Ladriel" or "That person has DD wings, they're Naruthian!". (I might have never made a Paladin if it weren't for the combination of Arcane's asskickery, and Vidus' RP) I never played on any other PW except for Thain. I didn't get too deeply into that world though, because Forgotten Realms. So I don't remember what unique systems they might have had. CHOO CHOO! - - - - - - Bereil Yadashem. Markus Mortriety, Herald of Novus Aristi.  Glor-an-Fhaidha Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Total Posts: 317 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 18 Jul 2013 01:45 PM Respawning at your corpse choice. Same or perhaps more penalty.(Balance issues too of course) Non-essential skill systems  Gasher_Bloodspuer Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 670 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 19 Jul 2013 03:55 AM I agree with a lot of these. One thing I haven't seen mentioned that I liked about vives and miss in DD is an OOC lounge to go to when you have to go afk.  Phoenix Joined: 08 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 942 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 19 Jul 2013 08:51 PM What I would really like to see are at least these 2 things incorporated: Project Q - amazing new placeables, artwork, critters.... Lord of Worm's tilesets - he used to be part of Project Q and is no longer, but his tilesets are by far the best. Just log into darker days to see for yourself. I just love, love, love those tilesets!!!! As mentioned many times before, the xp system from Vives with the diminishing returns, but also the rewards for non-combat such as traps, picking locks, area exploration.... The epic spells from PRC, which PDW incorporated.... so much better than those epic spell feats. And it allowed for lots of roleplaying and dm interaction to allow a player to get his/her ands on an epic spell as opposed to just getting it via a feat. All the tweaks and changes to the spells that PDW made. And finally if possible, but they would have to be looked at in great detail: the PRC prestige classes (and some new classes as well). Including psionic! The last one is totally optional of course. If I'd have to pick 3 only: Project Q, LoW's tilesets and the xp system. Oooh and Henesua's familiar selection modification! Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time. [Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven.  SpaciousQ Joined: 01 Sep 2003 Total Posts: 112 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 19 Jul 2013 09:27 PM Uhh.... Everyone, I like the tileset used in DD. Did I do that right PD? *Glancing about the room, nervously*  Chief Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 549 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 19 Jul 2013 10:11 PM Also all the NWN 2 placables. They are fantastic..doors, chairs, homes, plants. I believe Henny was already talking about it though. I am a placables whore. I admit it. ONWARD AND UPWARD!  Henesua houseofthemagus.com Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Total Posts: 797 Send PM   Re: on entering new areas... Posted: 19 Jul 2013 10:20 PM If you like LoW's tilesets. You should see these: by Six Wild Woods (video) by Senemenelas Underdark and other Interiors by Lord Rosenkranz Rocky Mountains etc... by Maxam Versatile Dungeon by Zwerkules Medieval City (vault) (video) Medieval Rural (vault) Roman City Arabian Nights Famous last words: Mykal> it's my new wireless router. * > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout) Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m..... * > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat)  SpaciousQ Joined: 01 Sep 2003 Total Posts: 112 Send PM   Re: What did you like about the Vives implementation? Posted: 19 Jul 2013 10:49 PM Below is my personal list of likes and not-so-likes gleaned from past Vives features along with tidbits encountered from other servers. I will also be posting some points already mentioned by others, if only to show my support. The below of course, is personal opinion. Please feel free to contact me for any further elaboration! I have tried to keep things as brief as possible for the purposes of presentation. Likes - The community, of course - Colourful descriptions of each area upon entering. (perhaps my favourite) - Crafting system in some form or another (not necesarily CNR) - XP from locks, traps, spells ect. (very difficult to balance, however) - Bulletin Board system and mail system ig - Inability to unlock chests and remain stealthed through a dungeon (mostly for exploitabilty of ghost looting entire dungeons) - Combat stances - Built in faith system that allows you to collect 'prayers' from other PC's, and increases your power (no idea what this is, but it sounds spiffy) - Persistant Community storage system (as taxing as this can be on a server) - Extra skills. Also, perhaps grouping "Hide/Move silently" into a bundle "stealth" skill - Not needing to roll success for simple item alterations - Hidden character class/level when logging onto the server (only names) - Hidden challenge rating on NPC/monsters - Exploration xp. however, perhaps scaled a fair bit back. I recall it being an easy couple of hours (with practice) getting to level 8-12, purely on exploration - Persistant housing (purchase, creation and rent), deeds, storage, PC merchant display cases - CHESS HALL - Respawning at corpse option (at increased penalty) - Option for surviving party members to haul a fallen party member's (heavy) corpse to a healer (at reduced penalty) - Heavier penalties upon death (apologies to all, i tend to favour a struggle) - Myriad extra content: custom weapon models, armors, clothing, etc. (more models the better) - SpaciousQ - Hene's modified rest system - Nearly anything from Arnheim, for that matter. (too many to list or remember) - Longer day/night cycles - Main overarching storylines that unite the community towards a single goal/objective. participation, of course being left to the player. - Gold sinks. To release some of the gold inflation thrown into economy from all those pesky adventurers - A working economy. (perhaps the most difficult to acheive. i have only seen 1 or 2 working examples, at best) - OOC lounge - DM interaction (it goes without saying, this goes such a long way to making a world truly feel alive) - Editable character/item description boxes - Suitable low level areas for the fresh faced - Low magic setting - Areas scaled to walking as primary means of transport, as opposed to running - Limited ability to 'run' cross country before needing to slow to a walk. Perhaps con based. Ignoring the prompts may result in temporary con penalty, remedied by a rest. (relates to above) - Slow level progression - Capped monk speed bonus to +10%, on par with barbarians (which is still noticeable). Monks in particular have a smorgasbord of nifty abilities, such that their incredible speed isn't compensating for any underbalance. It doesn't even make much sense from an IC pespective. Oh, how those monastaries do love churning out their champion Kenyan's. This was one trait taken directly from PnP that doesn't translate well at all to this type of gaming interface. - Party visible stealth (So your friends can still see/hear/emote with you while you adventure) Dislikes - Epic levels - Certain PrCs. specfically, RDD and Shadow Dancer. Each offering great mechanical advantage and thusly, popular choices because of them. - Overly sprawling areas. When areas are made large simply to be large, travel and mundane, repetetive tasks become a tedium. (This one is tricky, because there is also value in having some spaces represent their grand scale) - Perma death  Henesua houseofthemagus.com Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Total Posts: 797 Send PM   Re: What did you like about the Vives implementation? Posted: 20 Jul 2013 12:40 AM - Option for surviving party members to haul a fallen party member's (heavy) corpse to a healer (at reduced penalty) Yes. I like this too. Looking for a low overhead solution that provides corpse options - including animating the dead.Necromancy needs a boost, especially for wizards/sorcerers without relying on pale master. - Heavier penalties upon death (apologies to all, i tend to favour a struggle) Its now on the list. :) - Nearly anything from Arnheim, for that matter. (too many to list or remember) awwww.... I'll rethink those penalties.... Famous last words: Mykal> it's my new wireless router. * > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout) Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m..... * > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat)  Glor-an-Fhaidha Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Total Posts: 317 Send PM   Re: What did you like about the Vives implementation? Posted: 20 Jul 2013 04:00 PM A dislike that I've seen one time or another on most servers.. Mobs at zone transitions. It screws over players with longer loading times. And issues with having no warning, scouts or no. In the same vein, traps at zone transitions need to die. Something that I disliked in Vives, and is quite prevalent in DD too.. Unbalanced dungeons. What I mean by that, is the dungeon that'll start out at say, level 1. Basic mobs. Then it'll get harder. And harder. And harder. Until it's now a level 20+ dungeon. This means that players don't get to finish a dungeon, unless they happen to have a high level escorting them, which is usually discouraged anyway! Dungeons should (imo at least) be planned to be around a certain level, with about a 3 level or so variance allowed. If I entered a dungeon that's designed for a newly fresh level 1, perhaps there's a big boss at the end that's 4th. If I enter a dungeon, where it's a good balance for say that level 1, then suddenly oh that mob's now level 10 and one shots me with a death gaze from a mile away.. What did I gain? I died. And so did likely everyone else. Meh.. Dunno.  Glor-an-Fhaidha Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Total Posts: 317 Send PM   Re: What did you like about the Vives implementation? Posted: 20 Jul 2013 04:09 PM When I say dungeon mind, I don't mean an entire area has to be x. For example the old Vives Lyneaum was actually pretty well set up. You had a roughly equivalent romp though the bugbears, then a higher level but about the same throughout area in the basement(With a secret room that had a scary mob that could kill you, but it was secret!), and even a room with an epic level caster that could rock your socks. They could be accessed as branches though, and allowed for someone of one level bracket to experience a section all the way through.  pdwalker Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Total Posts: 5692 Send PM   Re: What did you like about the Vives implementation? Posted: 20 Jul 2013 11:45 PM Mobs at transition points was, and is, a complete no no. That shouldn't have happened in vives as we were normally pretty good about making sure the monsters were far enough back from transition danger zones. That said, I suppose there could have been circumstances when another player agro'ed the monsters, and the monsters followed them, or moved closer to a transition before they stopped. Since at the start of Vives, all monsters were statically placed, this definitely could have happened more than I might think it does. After we started NESS'ing the module, the monsters would automatically be despawned after a period of inactivity. Ness spawns were also setup to make sure that they would not spawn in while they were in sight range of the player so anything like that should have happened less. In short, if it did happen, it was an accident. Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly. -- "...Cause he mixes it with love And makes the world taste good." -- <@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.  Henesua houseofthemagus.com Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Total Posts: 797 Send PM   Re: What did you like about the Vives implementation? Posted: 20 Jul 2013 11:53 PM And if it does happen going forward, blame it on Nu'men. Famous last words: Mykal> it's my new wireless router. * > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout) Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m..... * > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat)  Glor-an-Fhaidha Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Total Posts: 317 Send PM   Re: What did you like about the Vives implementation? Posted: 21 Jul 2013 11:10 AM Mobs at transition points was, and is, a complete no no.. Yeah, hard pressed to think of an instance in Vives where that was the case. Heck I usually had time to read the area description before I'd have even moved from the starting point. Tis just an annoying point I've encountered elsewhere!  pdwalker Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Total Posts: 5692 Send PM   Re: What did you like about the Vives implementation? Posted: 21 Jul 2013 12:31 PM But just for you, I'll make sure to include one. "Attack of the flying midges" You'll see. Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly. -- "...Cause he mixes it with love And makes the world taste good." -- <@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu. Previous Thread :: Next Thread  Page 1 of 1   Forums  > General  > General  > What did you like about the Vives implementation?