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Forums  > General  > General  > General IRC issues today     Display using: Flat View Threaded View   Oldest to newest Newest to oldest Previous Thread :: Next Thread   Author  Thread: General IRC issues today  Arathon vives.dyndns.org Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Total Posts: 1885 Send PM   General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 01:49 PM I decided to post some issues/concerns etc that arose in irc today for those not able to get in/can't be arsed to get in/ have some principles about this sort of thing (looks at Slink :P) (1) Monks: Where's all the nice equipment for 'em? Well....... monks at higher lvlls will be one of the "hardest" classes..... it takes simply dedication to reach masterhood etc.... as it does in RL.. besides which, there will be up and coming new areas where one will find pretty much ONLY monk weapons and kit. I have also added in some new monk robes etc based upon gradings...... if people would speak to DM's about this perhaps some "tests" could be arranged for a group of monks to attain gradings in their class (or somesuch). (2) Rogues are crap aren't they? in vives? Erm...... depends upon how you play them..... I have had folks mention to me that they can't do quests because they aren't/don't have a rogue with them....... too trueWe want to give rogues abilities and a meaning beyond mere pickpocketing in vives. What disappoints me is that most rogues put their skillpoints into only a few skills........... After playing with VERY intelligent rogues in a party situation...... they are simply indispensable. A common situation is someone sees something hostile and they wade in!!!! MADNESS! think about it...... plan....... set traps hmm...... sneak ability...... etc etc...... you get the drift. New areas appearing will require rogues to succeed (possible without but much harder!). Rogues who whine after puting all their skillpoints in pickpocket or hide are simply selfish..... (could well be for a RP reason though :P). (3) Erm....... *looks at a rather fine chateau neauf-du-pape Basically........ folks are perhaps (in some instances quite rightly) asking the question....... "where's the balance"....... I say...... some classes are better at lower levels some better (much much moreso) at higher levels...... Have you the dedication? :P cheers Ara Vives Screenshots!  Fenarisk Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 823 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 01:59 PM I'd just like to throw my two sense in to defend #3 about balance. Such has always been the case in the D&D parameters that we play this game by. Wizards, bards, rogues, etc start out weak, while clerics, fighters, and druids start out somewhat strong. However, a fighter is still only limited laster on to his 1d8 longsword he focused in, while a mage has 6d6 fireballs coming up, and bards can have powerful songs and spells as well. It all evens out, and all classes have been this way since the very 1st edition of D&D. Below we can see when these classes tend to shine over others of similar level IF YOU SOLO. Partys are there for a reason. Short Run Classes: Fighter Barbarian Mid Run Classes: Ranger Druid Sorcerer Paladin Long Run Classes: Cleric (This is both mid and long really, not gonna touch this for balance reason) Wizard Rogue Bard Monk ~Fenarisk  slink www.drislink.com Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Total Posts: 726 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 02:02 PM Ha-ha! I told you IRC was no good. Wait ... this thread isn't about that ... takes a sip of homemade plum mead and relaxes again. Yes! Rogues! You were not born to be frontline troops. Accept your place in the world. When we need you, we really, really need you. And when we don't, likely you are dead meat. Be prudent. Monks? The ones with the fast hands? Huh, their feet aren't so fast. Looks down at vital-life-force-challenged monk. Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset. PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence.  slink www.drislink.com Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Total Posts: 726 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 02:06 PM *grrrrrr* Fighters aren't just for short-range. Developed properly they become more valuable than simply a 1d8 longsword, and even more than 1d8+1 and 1d6 fire damage. But they never can match a mage with maximal protections and a summoned. Until they buff under a cleric and rescue said vital-life-force-challenged mage from A Little Hut. *smirk* Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset. PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence.  Ulrik Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Total Posts: 12 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 02:18 PM < Yes! Rogues! You were not born to be frontline troops. Accept your place in the world. When we need you, we really, really need you. And when we don't, likely you are dead meat. Be prudent. < dead meat? harsh words indeed. *sly grin on towards Slink* I play a rogue... who happens to have no idea how to pick someones pockets... unless they are dead of course... so there are more rogues out there than just the 'in the shadows' sneaky purse snatchers. I do admit to jumpin ahead of myself sometimes, but its hard to lay off the action when everybody else is hackin it up on the fronts... even for a halfling.  Chief Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 549 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 04:03 PM Good post Ara! I could not agree more....I being one of the few monks in Vives have to admit it is quite hard...but no where near impossible...Now of course you might notice on the ol Dirt Nap league how high Jessup is..hehe..well that can also be attested to the curious nature of he and his good friend Pickston!All classes take time in vives..and thats what i like... ONWARD AND UPWARD!  Phoenix_Flamehart Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 482 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 05:15 PM Hey hey hey :P We rogues get along just fine in a group :P Sure, I got most of my points in Hide/Move Silently/Open Lock/Disable trap. I also got my points in other stuff as well y'know :P What annoys me most is that a rogue's job can be performed by ANY other class. Seriously. All a bod needs is 1 point in Open Lock and Disble trap and blah, our function is gone. Likewise, the helpful cleric spell 'Find Traps' makes us rogueys very useful. I've only seen one thing that only a rogue could do if he were high enough level, and that was because it was a DC 47 trap. The fact is, we're made pretty obselete by other class's ability to do our job. It's very annoying when you're obviously the rogue in the party and get to watch all the mages and fighters and clerics dashing to the door/trap to disable them. - Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows?  slink www.drislink.com Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Total Posts: 726 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 05:46 PM It's no more disheartening than to see the clerics and rogues rushing forward to engage the enemy in melee while wearing leather armor, and blocking the way for the fighters in iron. You'll never have to worry about Loli picking a lock or disabling a trap. The only reason she ever ends up blessing the party (with a potion) or healing the wounded (with bandages) is because the clerics have had to use up all their spells healing themselves after they've done the above. I found it very useful to have a rogue or two along for missile fire support, and to lay traps along a corridor over which the enemy was to be lured. Unfortunately that's of little use in, say, Mirghul or Midor Deep Woods. Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset. PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence.  Tasra www.bgmod.com Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 1364 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 06:25 PM I just find it fun to cause trouble as a rogue. Nobody yet has seen my latest ploy. Mwhahaha. Operation Wolf will comence when the pieces are set. *Gets shifty eyes* Besides, I play a brutally honest thief. He's TONS of fun. And that's what this game is about, right?  Alenuska Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Total Posts: 56 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 07:50 PM Heh I agree with Shaz'jen although I have to admit I feel rogues on Vives are Obsolete and the fact that ive never been concerned with being the strongest or haveing the best items or the most Exp is why I play them I personally enjoy Playing a semi handicaped player the fact that thief's have a difficult enough time battleing anything on vives and finding exp supports this I mean you need only look at a cleric such as fri'el to know disable traps are an obstical of the past especially with some cleric and mage spells hell you dont even need a thief you could have a mage cleric the mage to cast knock and the cleric to cast disable trap and wallaa my friends theres no need for us rogues at all! although I more or less play one for Role playing reasons :) "...Another day passes and I slip further from reality..."  Ch'ang Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 492 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 07 Nov 2003 09:50 PM Well Its not really like that..... Ok at low DC traps and locks it might work like that BUT when it comes to real traps and locks or you have a Rougue or you are stuck. Why have memorized spells for that if you can take a rougue? that will do things much more easy. Im tired of facing locked traped doors, or finding a weapon rack traped, or even die cuz I couldnt see it was traped. So yes we need rougues and I belive that when Ara said you will need rougues, he meant this, or you have a rougue or the DC wont be low enought for youe spells.... So yes maybe in a low levels a rougue isnt that nice but in a higher levels a party wont pass that damm door without one.... About Monks well I play one, Jessups is another monk, now Morlanya, so at least 3 Monks playing in vives atm, if we consider 15 players playing regularly at some time of the day we can say we are usualy 1/5 of the chars =)... And I brought this topic again cuz of only one reason, Im complaining about monk being forgotten for a long time but nothing was done. Now Ara says it will change lets wait to see. All I know is that I can find items made for almost all classes very easily, for low levels for hight levels, I can find them has a loot or in stores.... But for monks that doesnt work at least yet. Im sure things are changing ( and Ara has a new hak to play with =) ), new areas are coming and new items lets just wait and see. About being dificult ok make it hard but ey make it fun aswell =), I want to look like a monk not be forced to use mages robes, and pray to have a DM reward to have some gloves, then expect the DM to have some for my level....lol I belive you all got my point... Why search around when the answer is within you...?  Dens Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Total Posts: 1221 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 08 Nov 2003 05:25 AM ahhh rouges... =p they are pretty fun playing actually.. and if they are in a party.. having 6d6 sneak attack can be better then the mage's fireball that will fry the party as well - not to mention the rouge memorize nothing.. =p and I dont get into the fact rouges (well.. most of them) can praticly use any item if they got the lvl.. so you can 'build' your eqipment in ways others cant.. about low DC traps and locks.. I am not sure about traps - not sure how the 'find traps' or 'disable traps' works.. (the spells) but about locks.. I have seen more then once, a 'pretty high' DC lock and the door wasnt destructable.. so as said, for some quests you -have- to have a rouge.. from all classes out there... i think after the spell casters.. rouge is just too easy.. maybe something was changed.. but i dont remmember having any special problem with Tom to get to lvl 12.. tho now i am 'stuck' at this lvl - probably cuz i barely play him ;) about monks.. well.. I never thought you could reach beyond lvl 5... but well.. guess i wasnt sure about some players' dedication =p and i guess having monks' items will make it easier and more fun to play.. but one more thing about balancing.. mages and clerics.. well.. maybe they dont get much xp from monsters... but well.. they get about 20 - 30 per spell at the lower lvl (which goes down - but it is still lamost exactly as some monster types xp for their lvls = they get the xp from spells instead from monsters + the monsters they kill) but it just grow with the lvls.. and maybe i am wrong.. but it seems clerics/mages are harder to play at lower lvls.. and might be slower to lvl ... but when they reach higher lvls it actually get faster to lvl.. I dont remmember who told me this.. but someone (maybe Barnas?) who play a cleric told me that the lvling from lvl 11 - 13 (or something around that) was faster then lvling between lvl 6-9 .. maybe i got the lvls wrong.. but it still reflects the idea.. anyway i still think some more balancing is required. Dens You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p  Tasra www.bgmod.com Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 1364 Send PM   Re: General IRC issues today Posted: 08 Nov 2003 05:41 AM Can't we all just get along? Previous Thread :: Next Thread  Page 1 of 1   Forums  > General  > General  > General IRC issues today