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Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 01:21 AM |
I didn't know where to put this, so i figured here would work as well as any other.
Not to long ago, as i only minutes.....I and several others (They shall remain anonymous since it is their choice as to whether they wish to be named or not) were reprimmanded rather severely for too much OOC.
Now i'm writing this, one as a warning to others. The powers that be, want this server to be more RP and less....hmm...how should i put it.....less worldly? This is supposed to be a roleplay server, and i'm sure that they only want OOC for RL reasons, not just cause you're wanting to chat about anything while fighting.
Anyway, I, along with another, died and were OOCing while doing so. Now i'm rather new to RP, but apparently this is a BIG no no. Or at least so the DM's lead me to believe. Being new isn't an excuse, though, because i really knew better, i was just having fun and so wasn't paying as much attention as i should have been. It's easy to just chat cause lying dead for 30 minutes waiting for a resurrect can be EXTREMELY boring. Still, no excuse. Both i and the other guilty party agreed on that.
Now here's where my feedback comes in, and what made me angry, and still has me a little hot.
Instead of stepping in as i felt a GOOD DM should do and say "Guys, this OOC is getting WAY out of hand, you should know better and so i'm going to have to punish you for it and if you don't stop, things are going to go from bad to worse." Instead of saying that, he simply took 20xp from me and 100xp from the other guilty party. I don't know, but i don't think the others got penalized. Now what rankles is the fact that he simply took it with no explanation, and then when i OOCed, why did i just lose 20xp, thinking it was a possible bug, this DM replies, "If you keep up with that OOC crap, you're going to lose 500."
Now, i understand his point of view, he doesn't want OOC, he doesn't like it, it's the bane of his existance as a DM when his job is to make sure the RP code is upheld. But i feel like it's rather rude to act as he did without any warning whatsoever. I don't say he shouldn't have punished us, we were OOCing TOO much to get away with a slap on the wrist. But it left me very angry, and upset, that a DM would do something like this and then act so.....almost vindictively, against us in his comment because we were doing something he didn't like.
About an hour later, after all rezzes were performed, this DM and another pulled us all aside and told us that they were dissappointed in us because they KNEW we could do better, had seen it on occasions. That and they wanted us to understand what we had done wrong and to discuss it so it wouldn't happen again.
THIS is what i had been looking for. THIS was the hallmark of not just good DM's, but GREAT ones. We had made a mistake, and they didn't want to be mean about it, they wanted to help us, help us to understand and to grow as roleplayers so that we could continue in the world and enjoy growing and they could enjoy watching us grow.
The whole reason i'm writing this is because i felt this is what should have been done in the first place. Maybe not THAT drastic, until after the resurrects of course, but at least given the explanation i wrote above so that we wouldn't feel put upon. If the DM had said what i had wrote above, about the OOC being out of hand and having to punish us, i would not only have accepted it, but i would have apologized repeatedly for making him step into the middle of our fun when i'm sure he didn't want to, simply because we were grossly breaking the rules. Instead i spent the next hour seething, and thinking some rather unkind thoughts about the DM because of his, what i felt were, highhanded and abrupt, ways.
I just want everyone to learn, and i think everyone, INCLUDING the DM's, can learn from every experience put before them. So i wanted to write this to let them and everybody else, know. I didn't list names because the people involved will know who they are and whom i'm talking about. I don't think anyone else needs to know who these people are because it only involved us, except that everyone else CAN learn from the mistake i made, and not find themselves in a similar position. This is a growing world, and we all need to grow with it.
Don't worry, i'm well and truly over my anger. I want to continue in the world of Vives. I want to adventure with those i have already done so with, and with new people as well.
Anyway, if any of the DM's want to give me feed back on this, please feel free to do so. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, that's why i left names out. I just don't think it's fair to keep what i'm thinking and feeling inside on a subject like this. Lord, if i got kicked off the server, i don't know what i'd do. I've already met some great friends.
Anyway, see you in Vives, everyone. And please, no more OOC(within reason). Being summoned for being a bad boy is NO fun. I think all of us were scared to death that we were going to be going bye bye permanently.
(Boy, did i just write a book or what)
*EDIT*
BTW, i know i could have posted this in the Game master feedback area, but i didn't want this to seem like a gripe, complaint or anything like that. I wanted this to be an experience i could share that everyone could learn from. *grins* and if you want to say i'm an idiot and i should have known better and it was my own fault, go ahead, cause you'd certainly be right. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 08:42 AM |
Something which may be of help, or may not be, is learning how to type Tells from the Talk line. The reason I say it may not be of any help is that I am unsure now whether or not Tells are also forbidden while in a coma. My assumption is that OOC Talk is forbidden while in a coma because it ruins the atmosphere for anyone encountering the body, so using Tells at that time should be OK. If this is wrong, I'd like to find out now, before I end up making a DM angry. That's really not a goal in my life.
At any rate, to send a Tell from the Talk line, type
/t "person" stuff to say
So if I wanted to send Gene a Tell while I was down, I would type
/t "Gene" I'm going to wait. How about you?
And it would go out as if I had sent a Tell from the Player list or by clicking on his photo in the party, neither of which you can do when you are down. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 10:07 AM |
Added to slinks bit there, you can also use a NWN login name, which can be easier- especially with some of the names I've seen/used in NWN :P
That's done in the format:
/tp "login name" Waffle waffle waffle
So to tell myself something, it would be
/tp "Barnas" You're an idiot.
And yeah, knowing whether or not we can do that would be nice. I mean, in PnP the time when you most go OOC is after half the party gets mullered. In the style of "Bloody hell.. that's just great... Real good work with the fireball there, moron! Took half my HP and that Kobold killed me!". Or whatever... So yeah, are we allowed to do it on Vives or not? |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 10:29 AM |
*nods*
This is mostly the reason i posted this. Just want people to realize this is a serious thing to them. Mostly we were OOCing nosense stuff. I and the other one that had died OOCed how we would have been fine if such and such a monster hadn't jumped us while trying to kill another monster.
But we also did things that should not have been done...and i'm' assuming tells would fall in this catagory. One character sent me a tell about a monster we had skipped, saying it was immune to almost all weapons. Also in OOC another told people what his alignment was for resurrect purposes.
I think the most disgruntling was the last, at least for the DM's. Which i understand. Alignment should never be discussed. It's not like we all go walking around with patches on our shoulders saying "I'm Chaotic Evil, don't trust me!"
I do think mostly, though, it was because we were simply OOCing way too much. We were laughing and having a good time of it, which i don't think they minded....just don't do it in OOC.
And Barnas, i wouldn't tell you you're an idiot :p
Besides, the last time i had died, i didn't say a word until i was raised, which was probably 45 minutes worth of down time. So i DID know better, i simply wasn't following the rules this time around.
I would also assume that party channel is considered OOC and therefore out of bounds. It's not like we realistically have special areas of speech that only party members can hear while were talking in a normal voice, or shouting in a battle. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 10:38 AM |
Well, given that we'll all know each other's alignments by the time everyone has been ressurrected a few times, I think the best approach on that is to play it IC but still get the information across. Otherwise we're just wasting scrolls, which are precious few in number and not readily available in any way that I know of. Best of all would be to locate a high level cleric and avoid the entire issue, but that's not always possible.
Yes, Party would be the same as Talk. The question is whether Tell is the same as both of those. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 10:54 AM |
Aye, i get you about the resurrect scrolls. I'm playing Chaotic Good with Veshtan, and when i got resurrected that first time, the first try failed. *scratches head* Which i didn't understand and i actually still don't understand. Obviously it's alignment based, but perhaps someone could explain it to me?
I was just happy that i got resurrected last night, first try...since *coughs* there wasn't anymore of them to go around. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 11:41 AM |
There is a thread on the scrolls somewhere in the forum, but basically the further the person reading the scroll is in alignment on both axes from the comatose person the lower the chance that the scroll will work. When you read the scroll you get the data on your respective alignments in terms of differences. So for instance if Veshtan read a scroll over someone and got the information back that the Lawful-Chaotic axis was off by one and the Evil-Good axis was off by zero, he'd know that the soul he was trying to patch back into the body was an NG alignment. It's harder for N people, because getting information back that they are off by one doesn't tell them which way they are off. However, being off by only one doesn't make it impossible. Being off by four does.
I was slightly both bemused and amused by the fact that the people we needed to ressurrect someone last evening were all of a group which Loli never runs with and who she perceives as rather distant and cold to her. The alignments really are being acted out IG. *smile* |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 12:09 PM |
well, didnt read it all cuz it is pretty long, and i am after 12 hours at school =p
(yeah i am lazy, and yeah school sux =p)
anyway... from what i saw here -
clearing out: if you talk IC as a dead guy... unlese it got a realllly good RP reason.. and probably got premision to have char that can do such thing (of course you can go *moan* or something) -dont- do it this goes OOC and shouldnt happen..
second..
telling other you are dead, they should come and rescue you etc etc, this is -not- accpetable, as it is considered metgaming.. considered? heck that's exactly what meta gaming is =p so again, about this one.. -dont- do it..
third,
if you wanna talk after you died, send tells, if you 'need' to talk with more then one char use the party talk - ALL should be OOC and not in any circumstence IC/IG note, nor metagamish ... I mean.. if you are there and bored you can send tells to each other talking about football.. or if you and the other one/two are in a party you can do it there.. but dont interupt others by writing (()) ooc notes that can interupt their RP...
one point for the DMs..
I dont know who was the DM (tho i think i got a really good guess =p), but i really think this kinda thing should come with a warning first - and then the punishment + telling others so they'll know the warning had been given allready...
anyway, i -know- 20xp is almost nothing, and wouldnt be considered as a punishment by most players, -but- still.. warning first... and i dont think warning should come with punishment..
and further.. explanation is needed.. and well "stop that crap .." isnt a very good explanation, expecially as Veshtan said, he is new to RP and i guess maybe he didnt really know he was 'breaking the rules"
anyway maybe i missed something from not reading, hopefully i didnt =p
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 12:27 PM |
I'd like to add my take on tells asking for resses. I mostly play a lvl 15 cleric. I get, on average, 2 or 3 requests for a res per day. Some IC, some in IRC, some from tells... the story goes on.
It's not annoying for me to go andraise a character; running off to res someone leads to RP and fun.
The OOC tells ETC do, however, annoy me.
There are ways in which my cleric could know if certain people had died. But not without prior discussion, setting up, and RP beforehand. Example; A daily scrying on a character by said cleric, and if they're dead, she runs off to res them. Example; Said cleric gives out "I'm dead" carrier pigeons or "Contact; wait" and "All's well" carrier pigeons for combat- if the latter doesn't arrive; try and find them. Then there's an IC system for it.
But I digress.
Unless you've been hit by a bug and a DM sends me a tell saying "Go res him", I won't go and do a res. So don't bother with the tell :P
People have been lucky, and my character has walked past them when they're dead. If you're dead on a highway, someone's bound to come across you and try and go for a cleric eventually. In that case, due to Fri'el's nature, you're likely to get a res. But please don't send me tells asking :P
Hmm... what do the DMs think about Fri'el setting up a system like the one above where she charges money to raise people, based on an IC way of her knowing that they're dead ? Neeks bowstore, meet Fri'el's lifestore.... |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 01:31 PM |
I wanted to add some of my perspective onto this thread. First off, thank you Vashtan for bringing this to our attention. I can assure you that we (the DM's) will definatly take what you say into account to help us all be the 'great' DM's you speak of.
I also guess I should take this time to put down some of my feelings on OOC talk in game.
Basically, from the get go of Vives, it was envisioned as an environment for people to come and RP without the many things we have all seen in other mod's that detract from the RP. One of those things is constant OOC conversations going on. What I've seen lately, though it has been on the increase, is no where near as bad as i've seen else where. However, it has started to get to a point that worries me, and obviously other DM's.
IMHO (thats my) anything more than a ((brb)) or other such on line statements really break the illusion for me when I am RP'ing. There are times when it is neccessary, such as when I wear my tester hat, but other than at those times I try to avoid any OOC statements what so ever. Thats what the OOC player lounge is for.
With that, the OOC player lounge. The lounge was created with the knowledge that it is not possible to completely eliminate OOC chatter, so rather than trying to enforce people to not have OOC convo's in game, the OOC lounge was created. (well, I wasn't there to see it created, but thats how I imagine it  ) With that said, if you have a conversation that needs doing out of character, thats what the player lounge is for.
For those that dont know of the lounge, a very quick tutorial on how to get there. One of the 'tools' that you get when you first logon is a blue 'egg' called the players stone. (I keep all these tools in my 'Vives Toolbox' btw) By 'using' that egg, you are transported to the Player Lounge. Once you are there you can do what ever you want (have convo's, go afk, beat up the furniture, or even each other) and then use the portal to return back to the 'in character' world. You will return with the same HP, XP, Items etc that you entered the OOC lounge with irregardless of what you've done in the lounge. (On that note for DM's: Dont jump players to the OOC lounge as it can cause problems, only jump them out if they are stuck there)
So.. that is my perspective on this, and once again, thanks Vashtan for bringing it to light. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 01:35 PM |
Well in the case last evening (mine not Veshtan's) Loli and Balthor ran across a comatose man on their way to a dinner date in Brandibuck. This mostly-dead man muttered one or two words which indicated that there were scrolls in his own pack. Eventually, with appropriate help, we got the scrolls out of the pack. Then we had to find someone who had some chance of reading one with success. So we used Tells sent to select people. Yes, Balthor and Loli could have run silently all over the map, chasing any and every person they found in circles around Vives for RL hours, hoping they'd finally catch up with just the right person. I can tell you that would have taxed even slink's patience, and some of the people who ride the characters Loli runs with would not even bother to try. So Tells used in that way can be a shortcut to bringing together characters who are alive and well, in order to have the RP that leads to the ressurrection of the comotose one.
But basically I was asking about Tells used as a way for comotose people to chat with each other while waiting for IC rescue. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 01:57 PM |
I would say that tell's used to faciltate the 'bumping into eachother' of characters would be OK. However, if a DM were to see someone on the otherside of Vives all of a sudden drop what he/she was doing, and ran across the world to revive someone, it would be frowned upon to say the least.
To use your example, if the person was in Midor (and dont forget about that pink gem that can tell you were people are, to facilitate the 'bumping into eachother) and decided to take a walk to the great planes where he encountered Loli casting about in a distraught state, and she informed him there that his help was needed, 'how fortuitous we are you were walking this way.' That would be fine IMO.
As an example of what not to do. The dead person should not come into IRC and look for help (or change there nick etc.) Nor should the dead person send a tell to Fr'iel to come rescue them. They should wait silently and hope some character, still alive, comes across them (without facilitated 'bumping into') that can then get help from Fr'iel or whomever. And while that character waits, they should curse themselve for being so silly as to go somewhere where they might get killed by themselves. Or going somewhere where the whole party might even get killed |
~Alosynth
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 04:43 PM |
That gem is a real help, now that it puts everyone on by default. Before, very few people ever bothered to list themselves and almost no one did if there were frequent comings and goings due to lag or crashes.
Are you saying is that two people dead, er I mean comatose, side-by-side should not talk even to each other via Tells? In a PnP game, do the dead people have to leave the room and each hide in separate closets? In Vives you can't watch the rest of the game, even in silence, so if you can't talk "silently" to each other then it's really a rather severe punishment for what's supposed to be a socially-oriented environment.
Can't the disembodied souls hovering over the bodies that are on the brink of death speak to each other on the Astral Plane or something? :P |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 06:13 PM |
Thank you Alosynth.
I was mostly just posting this to get everyone to thinking about it. Because, just like others, you REALLY don't like OOC. And just because some of us don't mind it, that doesn't mean it's okay for us to OOC and "ruin" your gaming experience.
I just wanted more of a heads up. I didn't mind the 20xp penalty. It was mostly a slap on the wrist. I just didn't like the way it was given. Unless you've done something so....horribly...wrong, that it means immediate ejection from the game, i feel that an explanation should be given, then punishment delivered.
It mostly just caught me off guard cause i was already irritated at dying. Not at those that were with me, but knowing i should have ran with some of the others since i was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of my league in that place.
No harm, no foul, really. Just something i want all of us to learn from. It's scary being summoned by a DM *shivers* Your life flashes before your very eyes *grins* So i'm hoping others will head this so it does NOT happen to them.
As to the death thing. I feel...well, i don't even think whispering so people can find raise dead scrolls on your body is appropriate. I wasn't actually doing this with my OOC, basically we were just chatting while waiting for the other guys to come back. BUT, still....you're supposed to be dead, so unless you can RP-in something that would make it okay for you to speak, say like a cleric raising your spirit, not bringing you back to life, then there's no way you should be talking to anyone. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 09:01 PM |
Thanks for your feedback. I was the DM who penalized you XP for going ooc, and yes, perhaps I could have worded my response to you better. I wasn't the only DM there, but that's really not important.
Frankly, my response to you was generated out of frustration, after having watched your party playing for more than 20 minutes, with a liberal sprinkling of OOC throughout. By the time you received your small penalty, the conversation was I'd estimate 75% OOC! I let you guys slide quite far before the XP whacks came out, in the hope that it would stop. Frankly, I was pretty angry at this point, and my response clearly showed it. I felt it was crap, and I said it was crap. I've never been much for mincing words. ;)
This is why I pulled you all to the OOC lounge after your little adventure. I felt you deserved more extensive feedback than what you got at the time of the XP dock. Hopefully we can all learn from this experience and move on.
I guess there are some assumptions made on the part of the DM staff when we say that this is a server for serious RP. To us, "Serious RP" means total immersion, and never going OOC, even in party talk. If we haven't made that clear enough, let this discussion serve that purpose. Is it a struggle sometimes to not go OOC? Yep. Is it worth the effort? Definitely yes!
Why are we so strict about OOC? Because it ruins the setting. Sure, sometimes it's required to be OOC, like ((afk)) but otherwise, there's no reason for it and it's unacceptable. OOC not only impacts the player's fun, but it impacts our enjoyment of DMing as well. You might as well be in a chat room at that point.
I'll just use a small example: It would be easy for me to leave a party at the end of a session by simply logging off, but how would it look to folks if I simply disappeared before their eyes? I always at the very least walk out of sight, and I will usually walk all the way back to my home in Port Royale, because if I log out in public, I could log in in front of somebody's eyes! This is my idea of good RP. You'll formulate your own of course, but you get the point.
I'll add at this point that giving information on one's alignment to facilitate use of scrolls (this was not you Veshtan but it's worthy of note) is extremely OOC and META, and will not be looked upon in a friendly light. Short and to the point, it's cheating.
What I will say is this: OOC talkers and metagamers beware. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 09:57 PM |
Maybe i'm wrong here .. but I dont think if your ooc would have been in tell form there ever would have been an issue. As I say maybe Im wrong. This is only from the point of view of a player .. but if you want to talk ooc I say feel free as long as its in tells and thus doesnt affect anyone,and of course as long as its not meta. Again I may be wrong this is just the opinion of a player. But role play or not .. it all ends in -GAME- thus meaning it is intended for enjoyment. I've never played pnp where the players didnt ooc talk a little (not meta of course). If I did I'd likely smack the players and boot them out of my group and call em unsociable -insert choice expletive here-.
And a note on that, for me /tp 'pcname' text doesnt work I -have- to use /tp (/t dont work for me) 'LOGINNAME' text. Ive -never- been able to send a tell to a pc name. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 10:14 PM |
I guess there are some assumptions made on the part of the DM staff when we say that this is a server for serious RP. To us, "Serious RP" means total immersion, and never going OOC, even in party talk. If we haven't made that clear enough, let this discussion serve that purpose. Is it a struggle sometimes to not go OOC? Yep. Is it worth the effort? Definitely yes!
Im sure this will hit someone wrong but if your saying this then...whats this with consensual pk or stealing I guess from what I hear...I mean if its in your characters nature to deal with the matter himself and you do..you get in trouble for it...were you rping most likely...did you make someone else angry probably but they should have thought of that before they did something stupid...I mean it should be a last resort however...I dont know maybe its just me but I think the whole consenting to pk and/or pickpocketing is stupid...and obviously if you talk with a dm about it there going to say no or something to that effect...I dont know where im going with that but either way there ya go....*looks around for calmeir ;)*
... |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 05 Nov 2003 11:33 PM |
Actually, Veshtan, it's my understanding that we're never supposed to say that we are dead because raising people from the dead is supposed to be too unrealistic for Vives. So from 0 to -9 we are bleeding and can yell for help. At or below -10 we are supposed to be comotose or nearly so. We can moan or mumble various prayers or IC information, and emotively describe our condition in various imaginitively gory ways. That's my understanding, right or wrong.
I confess I never thought of my primary purpose being to supply quality entertainment for the DMs. *raised eyebrow and amused smile* |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 05:25 AM |
I myself find it more silly that a level one get get munched by a trap and go to -82 hitpoints and -not- be dead. But that's just me....
Mind you, I find any talk of "more realistic" in a fantasy game such as DnD to be ridiculous, so...
"It's not realistic using a fireball like that!!!!" "What? Like it's realistic to be able to shoot balls of fire by waving your hands and shouting?"
Or in this case "It's not realistic that someone can bring you back from the dead after you were killed by a dragon!" Let's use the logic here, since I'm bored in ICT. If you go for ultimate realism, the cleric cannot raise you. Yet, the dragon does not exist in the first place, thus could not have killed you, and so you're not dead. And furthermore, since the dragon didn't exist since it isn't realistic, you never went to go and steal it's hoarde, and you're still in the villiage. And since you didn't ask the cleric to help get the hoarde, so is he. And furthermore, since divine magic is unrealistic, the cleric is in fact, not a cleric. He's just a priest with no magic. And since there was no prospect of high adventure for either of you since it's not realistic to go off, fight things, and pick up loot on the way; you both just live normal lives. You go and RP plowing the fields all day! And you, playing the cleric now priest! go and give a sermon! And commoner who is now plowing the fields! Get rid of the magic weapons you picked up off the unrealistic magic creatures, and they're magic anyway! And magic is unrealistic! Yes. Now we're getting somewhere. *Dm surveys the blank character sheets*. Yes. You all have one HP, no attack bonus, and no weapons. Now we're at a nice realistic power level, we can go and have some fun RPing!"
That's all in the name of parody, of course. I don't mind the whole "PCs don't die, they get mortally wounded" thing. It's just fun taking the rip out of people who try and make DnD more realistic.. and take a swipe at the "You can only RP at lvl 1" Club (Formerly known as HCR supporters).
All IMHO, and meant to be taken with a liberal handful of salt,
Hoping I don't offend or annoy anyone,
-Barnas |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 08:15 AM |
Well for once we are utterly and absolutely in agreement, Barnes. I'm only trying to bend to the shape of reality as defined by the creators of Vives. The fact that I look funny standing in this position ... well, what can I say. *laugh*
Anyway, I think the overall guidelines are to have fun, to not ruin anyone else's fun, and to be pleasing unto the eyes of the creators.
And it's an absolute certainty that running off to IRC to broadcast an advertisement for help with being, er, vital-life-force-challenged, is a stupid, stupid move with respect to how any of the DMs will respond. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 12:35 PM |
vital-life-force-challenged
*rofl* I love it. Can we put that on the respawn screen Aria?
On a more sober note, very well put slink. If it was a 'mechanic' death, ie: due to a bug or bad spawn location after a reset, by all means, come into IRC and let a DM know what happened (or send a PM to all DM's via website, or check the /dm channel in NWN for those that dont use IRC ). But, as policy now, DM's will no longer respond to 'Death by Adventure' requests for help.
Or I guess 'vital-life-force-challenged by Adventure'. As to how you all respond to death in the game, ultimally its up to you, but to me, it breaks the immersion of my RP to have to be amazed by the reviving of a 'dead' PC 10 times or more in a DM event (more if its one of Ara's). I've never played pnp, but I imagine that death there is much much rarer. And of course 'respawn' from death makes even less sense than the idea of a PC's comotose body be found and brought back to Midor for recovery. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Little bit of a problem from tonight...actually early this morning, i guess
Posted: 06 Nov 2003 12:47 PM |
I'd disagree with the amazement thing there. Since I ended up agreeing with someone which, being me, simply cannot be right :P
Once you have a level 9/13 cleric, it becomes fairly common to be raised when you die. Death is rarer in PnP, unless you're a fairly foolhardy group/load of nutters. But, it does become something which you get used to. You get used to the undead. You get used to people being brought back from the dead. Your average commoner will be amazed by someone coming back from the dead; since the average... is it town.. might be small town? Still doesn't have a lvl 9 cleric capable of raising. Thus, commoners are likely to be suprised. Seasoned adventurers? Not really. It's not somethinh which happens every day. But it's not like seeing a miracle performed. I don't see everyone acting amazed when characters cast magics which are more powerful and far reaching than raising the dead. It's a strange thing, but it -is- just a spell. Heck, there's PrCs which -require- having been brought back from the dead. Blood Magus sprinds to mind (T&B). Hmm.. why did I type that?
I do, however, like the "You're not dead when you die which is why you are revived in Midor when you get found" thing. It's much better than any other respawn option I've seen. But I would say that if a Cleric raises you, you say that you were properly dead. It's called "Raise Dead" for a reason :P
All IMHO,
-Barnas |
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