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NWN2 Worries
Posted: 13 Oct 2006 05:36 AM |
I must say I do have high expectations for Vives in its NWN2 incarnation, but should I temper these as it appears Obsidian aren't exactly catering for PWs?
I know this has probably been common knowledge for some time but the following link is worrying:
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=502644&forum=100&sp=15
I'm also wondering what this means for Vives in its current form... |
Eerel Swiftfoot
Self proclaimed fasterest little person in da land
Eerel's Story:
http://vives.dyndns.org/vives/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=49386 |
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Re: NWN2 Worries
Posted: 13 Oct 2006 09:10 AM |
We've know about it for some time, and there's been tons of posts on the Bioware boards ;)
It basically means that we'll have to trim down the amount of exterior areas in Vives 2, probably by making full use of the World Map that ships with NWN2 (think similar to Baldurs Gate).
50 mid-sized exterior areas could take up to 1GB, all of which would have to be held in the servers RAM (at present anyway).... Interiors aren't as big an issue, so we can have plenty of those...... Bandwidth as far as I can see also isn't an issue (they're saying it uses roughly the same as NWN1).
It's really a trade-off between having the (rather wonderful) new exterior tileset and it's infinite capabilities and the amount of exteriors you can have with it in a PW..... I always prefer Wilderness exploration rather than interiors (as you might have guessed :P), as I think it offers more variety. Caves and such to me just get boring after a while, there's only so many ways you can make another cave or dungeon exciting or different to another..... BUT I'm also excited about the new capabilities of the exterior tilesets in NWN2..... they enable us to do exactly what we want ;)
To build an exterior in NWN2 however, takes a LOT longer than in NWN1, so it would be some time before we even began to run into trouble with RAM, and even then we can probably add in another 2GB.
Enough waffling from me ;)
- Ara |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: NWN2 Worries
Posted: 13 Oct 2006 09:19 AM |
In NWN2 exteriors have a buffer zone where players can't walk....... this is huge..... it's nice in a way as it allows for a continuous view of the horizon, so roads can seem to go on for miles etc.....
BUT
Say in an 8x8 area (the tiles are bigger in NWN2) you have a total of 64 tiles where players can move around, the buffer zone takes up an additional 192 tiles! 3 times the amount basically..... I must admit that I wish you had the option of getting rid of the buffer zone either all-together or reducing it's size (at defaut it's 4 tiles thick all the way around, and you can't change that).......
Pain huh?
- Ara |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: NWN2 Worries
Posted: 13 Oct 2006 10:48 AM |
Interesting. I suppose that helps alleviate my worries somewhat! 50 areas does seem rather modest though.
With regards to the buffer zone can you not copy and paste the surrounding actual areas so that the areas seamlessly merge and thus save work? |
Eerel Swiftfoot
Self proclaimed fasterest little person in da land
Eerel's Story:
http://vives.dyndns.org/vives/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=49386 |
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Re: NWN2 Worries
Posted: 13 Oct 2006 11:07 AM |
Yup that's the nice thing in that you can have seamless transitions.......... but I'd rather have the flexibility to reduce them (4 tiles wide is un-necessary if it's e.g. full of trees to signify a forest, or gigantic cliffs, which you can't see past.... If we could reduce their size then we might be able to have 3-4 times the amount of exteriors in game.
I've brought it up on the Boards heh....... let's see what happens.
In reality the buffers actually create more work........ As you've got waaaay more tiles to sort out than the ones players can walk upon. They still need to look good and "work".
- Ara |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: NWN2 Worries
Posted: 15 Oct 2006 10:07 PM |
Interesting. I suppose that helps alleviate my worries somewhat! 50 areas does seem rather modest though.
With regards to the buffer zone can you not copy and paste the surrounding actual areas so that the areas seamlessly merge and thus save work?
WOW guys. that sounds like some cool stuff! I can't wait to check itout for myself, and I'm glad that you're making your voices heard for the Bioware Folks as they put on the finishing touches. ((oh yeah, I'm getting another 1024mb Ram tomorrow and instaling a better operating system on my laptop, so I'm hoping by Wed. I can get in and play with the toolset! YAY!))
My bet is that they ARE listening to you guys, why else would they make it a point to promote PWs so much before the release and then release the Toolset (not a sample of the game to play which would be a very effective propaganda to increase sales,) allowing bulders to experiment? Plus we have 30 days to respond to Bioware, which allows them some time to make last minute changes. That is what seems most logical to me anyways. Considering that they'll need time for packaging and shipping, I'd say that if builders could find a page where the Obsidian/Atari folks are regualrly reading and make comments, that would provide them with more notice if they are trying to encorporate stuff.
THis tileset stuff seems pretty big, expecially considering the size it's going to take up to have unusable tiles outside of the entire map! Such a waste of memory, and you'd think it'd make more sense to be able to delete a tile if it's not visible and it's going to take up useless memory to do so. I bet this would be something they'd like to hear about if they haven't yet... who knows, maybe they can fix it before they release the official version?
K.I. |
"Life is a short trip... travel light"
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PC Descriptions with Journal Links |
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Re: NWN2 Worries
Posted: 16 Oct 2006 12:33 AM |
We've know about it for some time, and there's been tons of posts on the Bioware boards ;)
It basically means that we'll have to trim down the amount of exterior areas in Vives 2, probably by making full use of the World Map that ships with NWN2 (think similar to Baldurs Gate).
50 mid-sized exterior areas could take up to 1GB, all of which would have to be held in the servers RAM (at present anyway).... Interiors aren't as big an issue, so we can have plenty of those...... Bandwidth as far as I can see also isn't an issue (they're saying it uses roughly the same as NWN1).
It's really a trade-off between having the (rather wonderful) new exterior tileset and it's infinite capabilities and the amount of exteriors you can have with it in a PW..... I always prefer Wilderness exploration rather than interiors (as you might have guessed :P), as I think it offers more variety. Caves and such to me just get boring after a while, there's only so many ways you can make another cave or dungeon exciting or different to another..... BUT I'm also excited about the new capabilities of the exterior tilesets in NWN2..... they enable us to do exactly what we want ;)
Enough waffling from me ;)
- Ara
ahhh crap.... i agree ara... exterior areas have so much more fun to explore... thats a bummer... |
Love 'n' light
Wings |
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Re: NWN2 Worries
Posted: 16 Oct 2006 07:25 AM |
I have a few questions, and this seems like the place to ask them.
I will not be able to run NWN2 on my computer, and wont be upgrading any time in the foreseeable future. Even if my PC could support the new game I would be hard pressed to purchase it, the perils of living on a tight budget. Add to that the fact that the only available connection in my area is dial-up, which only just allows me to play NWN online. So I can clearly state now that I will not be making the move to Vives2.
So I ask: What will become of the current Vives when Vives2 rolls out? Will Vives as it is continue to be maintained? Will the mod be publicly released? |
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Re: NWN2 Worries
Posted: 16 Oct 2006 08:34 AM |
I think there was a thread that spoke about the future of Vives when Vives2 comes about.
*Finds it*
http://vives.dyndns.org/vives/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=4&PostID=49797#55686 |
Me: “Hrothgar is not crazy, he is blessed!”
Wicked Keen/Sa'koless: “Vilyave must have been PMSing when she blessed Hrothgar...” |
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Re: NWN2 Worries
Posted: 16 Oct 2006 03:10 PM |
Actually, setting it up to run locally is not that hard ish. Some tech savy will be required. All the software required is now freely available (except for windows and nwn, of course)
Vives will continue to run, possibly even after Vives2 is in use (dont expect active development though). How long it will run depends on player interest, our hardware requirements
We have been discussing what to do with vives after vives2 is in play. Perhaps we will leave it running as it. Perhaps we will run some adventures "in the future of vives1, but before vives2". Perhaps we will make everyone DMs so they can hop in and see whatever bit they like.
I expect that Vives2 will require a new, more powerful server. We may even need more than one server. Just how much so remains to be seen as we still do not really know what nwn2 will require in terms of hardware.
Until we start building the initial areas and writing the initial code, and integrate it with nwnx4, we really don't and won't know. We will also need community help to resolve the problems with the nwn2 walkmeshes, perhaps even wait for the development of more efficient (if less pretty) outdoor tilesets.
Heck the feature list for nwn2 may be much less than what we have with the current nwn. We might not even want to switch over until after an expansion or two of nwn2. No idea. Not sure. Can't know just yet.
Stay tuned. You'll know as soon as we know.
- Paul
Okay guys, this was apparently the last post about the conversion on the aforementioned thread. Since our programmers will need some time to see how the game Vives1 maintains, and how much Vives2 requires, I'd say we need to get busy and wait. ALSO, with NOBODY really having a clear idea on how much it will all take, we'll probably have to wait until after the release on Oct 31st and then give the programmers a little bit of time to see how it all does, and the requirements necessary. I'm curious too... It may be fun to revisit Vives1, even with NWN2 up and running. I'm just as expectant and hopeful as any.
Give a shoutout and some encouragement for our great programmers! You know they do this for free, and I am constantly grateful for all that they do for us. Honestly, I'd like to see them get some sponsors since I know they put a lot of time into this. I would not complain if we had advertisements on our homepage, if it brought them a bit of compensation for time spent, ((as long as it isn't one of those annoying ads that puts an animation on your screen and interrupts your work to harass you! I make it a point NEVER to business with those folks!))
Many Thanks to PDWalker, Ara, and the many programmers/DMs behind the scenes!
K.I. |
"Life is a short trip... travel light"
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PC Descriptions with Journal Links |
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