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DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 05:36 AM |
Ok, been hoping to have Sirac bump into Macha for a while now, and had the chance this morning. Went a bit further than I expected. As such thought I should post the log, and throw open some discussion on what the limits are for "divine intervention" with regards to Tarik trying to keep his hold on Macha. Thoughts, especially from Barnas?
Sirac Gerardson: *clears throat*
Alton Highhill: *looks over*
Alton Highhill: Hi!
Macha Sparrowsong: *is leaned in, whispering to Alton, and jumps when he clears his throat*
Macha Sparrowsong: *blinks and looks over* Oh...
Sirac Gerardson: *nods a greeting, a warm smile fading slightly as he looks from Alton to Macha*
Macha Sparrowsong: Sir Sirac. Hello. *nods to him*
Sirac Gerardson: greetings to ye both...
Macha Sparrowsong: That armor looks nice. I trust you've been well?
Macha Sparrowsong: *voice grows more composed as she speaks*
Sirac Gerardson: *looks at macha with a slight mix of confusion, concern and wariness* Aye, quite well lass, and thank ye fer saying so...
Sirac Gerardson: the armour tends to attract comment *grins*
Sirac Gerardson: seems some folk dont find it matches my hair *shrugs*
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* good, I'm glad to hear you're well. *small smile* and it's always nice to be noticed. I think green is a nice compliment to red hair.
Sirac Gerardson: ~wry laugh~ truth to tell, tis elven made, so not sure I had much choice in the colour
Sirac Gerardson: are ye...well lass?
Macha Sparrowsong: *runs her tongue over her bottom lip, then nods* I'm well enough, thank you.
Sirac Gerardson: good to hear *obvious concern still mixed with palpable wariness* I wouldst love to talk with ye some time, but fer now seems ye are busy...
Sirac Gerardson: *smiles at Alton*
Sirac Gerardson: so I will nay disturb ye
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* We were just chatting, Sir Sirac.
Sirac Gerardson: aye, tis a nice day fer once
Macha Sparrowsong: But I may almost always be found in this area..for now
Sirac Gerardson: *nods* well then, another time...
Alton Highhill: Oh, well, I gotta take care o' sum stuff anyway, so you two can go a'ead an' talk
Sirac Gerardson: oh... *seems unsure*
Macha Sparrowsong: *looks up at the sky, then over to Alton* Be well, Alton. Thank you for your assistance.
Alton Highhill: Sure. *pokes her* See you later.
Alton Highhill: *waves to Sirac*
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods*
Sirac Gerardson: take care Alton
Sirac Gerardson: *slight smile that quickly fades away as he leaves*
Macha Sparrowsong: *stands slowly* well, I can hardly ask you to join me in the grass
W.Artist has left as a player..
Macha Sparrowsong: *turns toward him*
Sirac Gerardson: aye, I mean I am so used to greater luxury than the grass...
Sirac Gerardson: ~grins~
Macha Sparrowsong: *smiles slightly* well
Macha Sparrowsong: One never does know
Sirac Gerardson: ~tilts head, looking at her speculatively~
Macha Sparrowsong: *looks at him expectantly, face composed*
Sirac Gerardson: I am fine here if ye are happy here
Sirac Gerardson: or I am fine getting an ale
Sirac Gerardson: ~shrugs~ ye choose lass
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* Let us go to an Inn, then. In case it rains again.
Sirac Gerardson: around Port, tis always a safe bet
Sirac Gerardson: the city, or the four winds?
Macha Sparrowsong: Indeed. I don't mind, in truth. *tilts her head* I suppose it depends. The Four Winds is more out of the way
Sirac Gerardson: ~seems increasingly ill at ease, looking at her with obvious concern and doubt~
Macha Sparrowsong: But ... only you know what you need to speak of, and what is necessary.
Sirac Gerardson: ~shrugs~ I need to speak of naught lass, naught but friendship and yerself anyway
Macha Sparrowsong: *continues to look at him calmly, though her face looks a little stressed* well then. Let's go to the Four Winds, as I'm a little weary of the city for now.
Sirac Gerardson: that would be nice
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* alright then. Shall we?
Sirac Gerardson: ~looks to Macha to lead the way and nods~
Macha Sparrowsong: rain *smiles slightly*
Sirac Gerardson: ~eyes scan left to right as he walks*
Sirac Gerardson: aye lass
Sirac Gerardson: never ends
Macha Sparrowsong: its nice.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Jan 26 08:13:43] A roaring hearth greets you as you enter the inn, along with a vast array of hunting relics and stuffed animal parts which adorn the walls. The smell of roasting meat mingles with strong ale and smoke in the air.
Macha Sparrowsong: *turns and closes the door* someone is always leaving this door open
Sirac Gerardson: evenin' uwe
Sirac Gerardson: *whispers to uwe, hands him some gold and accepts a bottle in return*
Macha Sparrowsong: *crosses her legs, draping her hands over her knees*
Sirac Gerardson: ~the bottle is dusty and old, and only half full~
Sirac Gerardson: ~pours some for Macha then himself, the wine is pale gold and obviously elven~
Sirac Gerardson: its been a long while lass...
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* thank you *picks up the glass but merly holds it*
Macha Sparrowsong: It has, aala.
Sirac Gerardson: ~drinks a little from his own, savouring the taste~
Sirac Gerardson: I think our paths have taken very different directions
Macha Sparrowsong: *tilts her head, looking at him for a moment*
Macha Sparrowsong: *then back to her glass*
Sirac Gerardson: ~seems to be edging around what he wants to talk of, and is more nervous than any time you have seen him preparing for a fight~
Sirac Gerardson: I hast heard much of ye though...
Sirac Gerardson: ye hast become quite renowned, as I always suspected ye would
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* It surprises me sometimes still
Sirac Gerardson: ~slight smile~ aye ye never did see in yerself what those about ye couldst see clear as day
Macha Sparrowsong: *small smile* perhaps not.
Macha Sparrowsong: Some might say I see more clearly. *still holding the smile*
Sirac Gerardson: Sinjin...well, he was an insightful man, he wouldst not have cared so fer ye unless he saw true
Sirac Gerardson: ~resigned look, as though he feels he is approaching the gallows~
Macha Sparrowsong: *smile fades, mouth tightening a little*
Macha Sparrowsong: He is a good man *nods as if in agreement*
Sirac Gerardson: so, is it true, some of the tales i have heard of ye? I ask out of friendship we shared, once at least... ~face pale and tight, obviously approaching the core of his reason for approaching her~
Macha Sparrowsong: *looks at him, tilting her head at the look on his face*
Macha Sparrowsong: I'm not certain what tales you may have heard, Sir Sirac.
Macha Sparrowsong: So I cannot say if they are true
Sirac Gerardson: have ye become a plaything of the gods lass...and of a god with little in the way of mercy and compassion, traits I know ye have...or had *blunt tone, but definite emotion in his voice*
Sirac Gerardson: ~sips his wine, hand trembling slightly~
Macha Sparrowsong: *blinks once, composure wavering a little before returning*
Macha Sparrowsong: I...*pauses, as if choosing her words carefully* I follow a god some consider evil, aala.
Sirac Gerardson: ~slight sigh, leaning back and closing his eyes momentarily~
Macha Sparrowsong: I'd like to think many still call me friend *softly, voice uncertain only if you know the usual tone*
Sirac Gerardson: ~opens his eyes and nods slowly~ the gods spread more grief and heartache in this land than anything else I could name *clear anger and frustration*
Sirac Gerardson: from Midor to Port, from the ice lands to the volcano, to the elven lands...it seems everywhere I turn the accursed gods are spreading their lies, and playing their games with those I care fer
Sirac Gerardson: ye hast my friendship lass, fer as long as I can offer it
Macha Sparrowsong: *blinks, mouth tightening again and looking to her glass*
Macha Sparrowsong: *starts to speak, then swallows hard and nods* thank you
Sirac Gerardson: just tell me... *voice breaks* tell me ye will not make me regret offering it?
Macha Sparrowsong: *frowns slightly, looking intently at her glass*
Sirac Gerardson: ~watches her face, sitting still and quiet~
Macha Sparrowsong: *emotion moves over her face, breaking the composure, and when she speaks there is a hint of something undefinable in her voice* Can we ever say such things for certain?
Sirac Gerardson: ~looks Macha straight in the face~ there used to be a time we could, aye
Macha Sparrowsong: *is unable to meet his gaze, looking away and closing her eyes a moment*
Sirac Gerardson: *conciliatory tone* but things change, people change...I fer example find myself responsible fer the lives of others, rather than just finding my next ale
Macha Sparrowsong: When one follows a God, one gives up those choices somewhat
Sirac Gerardson: aye lass, gods change people, that much is true
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods slowly* and who are you responsible for?
Macha Sparrowsong: *still not looking at him, raising the glass and smelling the contents but not drinking*
Sirac Gerardson: *seems to deliberately ignore the question* please...the betrayal of the masks...the clone they used, that played no part in your choice?
Sirac Gerardson: I know ye were hurt by the seeming betrayal of a friend
Macha Sparrowsong: *blinks* My...Sir Sirac, I was what I am already, when that happened.
Sirac Gerardson: really?
Macha Sparrowsong: Who do you think rescued me.
Sirac Gerardson: ~sighs~
Sirac Gerardson: rescued ye...mayhaps ~doubtful tone~
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods slowly*
Sirac Gerardson: an elf kidnaps ye, and Lord Tarik ~almost spits the words~ rescued ye, aye
Sirac Gerardson: that is oft the way of it
Macha Sparrowsong: *faintly* Daeron, actually
Sirac Gerardson: ~blank look at the name~ lass, elven matters have ne'er held much interest fer me, unless they touch upon Sol, or others I care fer ~looks directly at her again~
Sirac Gerardson: but the gods...I know well the pain they bring
Macha Sparrowsong: ~meets his gaze with obvious effort*
Sirac Gerardson: I am who I am because of the gods...because even the Lady Elbereth uses and discards us as she sees fit
Sirac Gerardson: I lost my parents to such games
Sirac Gerardson: something I have learnt to live with
Macha Sparrowsong: *frowns* I am sorry to hear that.
Sirac Gerardson: all I wouldst say to ye, is be wary of the path ye tread, and know if ye ever seek to turn from it I...and Sol, will aid in any way we can, until then ye have my friendship so long as I can offer it
Macha Sparrowsong: *takes a deep breath, letting it out slowly and averting her eyes*
Macha Sparrowsong: It's..very kind of you to offer *sounds much less composed than before, almost nervous*
Sirac Gerardson: I just had to know the truth... *confusion in his tone* and the truth is ye seem still the same lass I knew, but ye have lost some of the sparkle, and fer that I mourn
Sirac Gerardson: ~sips some more wine~
Sirac Gerardson: ~eyes her still full glass but says nothing~
Macha Sparrowsong: *faintly, uncertainly* we must all grow up sometime, I suppose
Sirac Gerardson: grow up...fer me growing up hast been finding my own path and being as true as I can be to who I am...not what some -thing- would make me
Macha Sparrowsong: *taps a finger lightly against the glass, shifting in her chair*
Macha Sparrowsong: *frowns slightly* I did what I felt necessary, Sir Sirac
Sirac Gerardson: Macha, I do not judge ye, if I speak angrily tis not directed at yerself
Macha Sparrowsong: It's...not a choice I made lightly, nor..well, frankly one I might choose again.
Macha Sparrowsong: *frowns, looking around the room slightly before looking back to her glass*
Sirac Gerardson: ~very direct, but still a faint tremble in his hands as he nurses the goblet~ it dost not sound to me like ye are sure in yer choice lass, if not there are always ways to turn from any path, tis almost -never- too late
Sirac Gerardson: ~sincerity and care very evident in his tone~
Macha Sparrowsong: ~finally brings the glass to her lips and takes a sip*
Sirac Gerardson: I am sure Sinjin would find a more...eloquent way of saying what I mean
Sirac Gerardson: but I am from the streets, so let me be blunt, the gods love making us play and suffer for their own amusement
Macha Sparrowsong: *swallows a bit harder than necessary* I understand, Sir Sirac. Indeed, I...I did turn from Him once before. *sets the glass carefully on the table in an effort that he not notice her own trembling*
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods slowly, bringing her hands back into her lap and clasping them*
Sirac Gerardson: ~if he notices he doesnt reveal it, beyond looking concerned~ Lass, sometimes it becomes easier to just go with the flow, easier but not better
Sirac Gerardson: I cant know what ye have been through
Sirac Gerardson: and what tears at ye even now
Macha Sparrowsong: *looks down at her hands*
Sirac Gerardson: all I know is I have found times in my life when I thought to stand and fight was to face death and worse
Sirac Gerardson: sometimes I fled, sometimes I stood
Sirac Gerardson: but always, the choice remained mine
Sirac Gerardson: that cannot be taken away from us
Sirac Gerardson: only given away
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods slowly, looking around again, then back to him* You've been quite frank with me, Sir Sirac. And I appreciate it, and that you care.
Sirac Gerardson: ~nods~ aye I have been frank lass, fer I fear losing ye to these games, and cannot stand aside and say naught, I am sorry I was so late to hear of this, but ye move in different circles to me I fear
Macha Sparrowsong: *voice is a little firmer,but a little shaky* I..am not worried He will kill me.
Macha Sparrowsong: because He will not.
Macha Sparrowsong: Not..right away, in any case.
Sirac Gerardson: what dost ye fear then? or should I leave it as ye know I am here if ye need me?
Sirac Gerardson: ~finishes the first goblet of wine, and then pours another half glass~
Macha Sparrowsong: *closes her eyes* You've...impeccable timing, I'm afraid.
Sirac Gerardson: ~slight grin, seemingly despite himself~ really, Sol always tells me I have terrible timing
Macha Sparrowsong: aala...well, perhaps that was a bit sarcastic
Macha Sparrowsong: *small smile, eyes down*
Sirac Gerardson: ~exaggerated sigh~ oh well, I ne'er hast been good at understanding women
Sirac Gerardson: ~grins and winks, but his face still looks worried and careworn~
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* I'll tell you a secret..we seldom understand ourselves.
Macha Sparrowsong: *takes a deep breath, letting it out in a rush*
Macha Sparrowsong: He will not let me go, Sir Sirac.
Sirac Gerardson: ~looks unsure, torn between humour and seriousness, and then opting to stay quiet and let her speak~
Sirac Gerardson: what dost -ye- want?
Sirac Gerardson: ~a slight smile every time she calls him Sir~
Macha Sparrowsong: *a little humor enters her eyes again, equal amounts pain* I do wonder why people keep asking me that
Sirac Gerardson: because it is all that matters *utter certainty*
Sirac Gerardson: the gods are not all powerful, I know this now more than ever, not even Midoran in his own city is truly all powerful lass
Sirac Gerardson: ~direct look~
Macha Sparrowsong: *bluntly* It doesn't matter much when all you care for is dead around you.
Macha Sparrowsong: *looks back to her glass*
Sirac Gerardson: tell me something lass, I dont know why it ne'er happens, but why dost -ye- think that the gods do not kill any they choose, whene'er they choose?
Sirac Gerardson: why hast Midoran not killed me and mine? *very sincere tone*
Macha Sparrowsong: *softly* because the killing is not the point.
Macha Sparrowsong: It's what comes from knowing they could, or might, kill you or those you love any time they choose.
Sirac Gerardson: ~nods, all humour disappearing~
Macha Sparrowsong: *speaks softly, but with utter conviction* the hunt is what matters, aala?
Sirac Gerardson: but again I ask, if they could do so whene'er they choose, why dost it not happen on a daily basis
Macha Sparrowsong: *wipes a hand slowly over her face*
Sirac Gerardson: why am I, and others I care fer, allowed to commit crimes in the very holy city of a god, why are there places we can do so and survive
Sirac Gerardson: a god that hates all we believe in
Macha Sparrowsong: *shakes her head* I do not know
Sirac Gerardson: and is supposedly living in that city
Macha Sparrowsong: perhaps I should, given my profession. But I do not.
Sirac Gerardson: gods are not all powerful lass, they are manipulative, they use fear, greed, love, any emotion they can
Sirac Gerardson: they gain a hold then never let go
Sirac Gerardson: -unless- we make them
Macha Sparrowsong: *runs a hand through her hair*
Macha Sparrowsong: I don't see how one makes a god do anything.
Sirac Gerardson: by making choices, I believe our freedom of choice is more powerful than their games
Sirac Gerardson: but I wouldst not convince ye lass
Sirac Gerardson: fer if naught else, I might be wrong
Sirac Gerardson: I have seen ye suffer enough
Sirac Gerardson: over the years
Sirac Gerardson: I wouldst not cause more, ye must choose fer yerself
Macha Sparrowsong: *frowns slightly*
Sirac Gerardson: but if ye do, ye hast others that will aid ye
Macha Sparrowsong: aala...I..I didn't think...*blinks, looking back to the glass and tracing the edge a littel with her finger*
Sirac Gerardson: and there are other gods that would aid ye in freeing yerself, however much I may loathe them, they are more benign than one that controls ye in such a way as this Tarik would seem to
Macha Sparrowsong: *frowns* other gods...I don't think they could.
Macha Sparrowsong: And He...*wrinkles her brow* well, I won't defend Him. It's rather pointless.
Sirac Gerardson: ~looks unsure~
Sirac Gerardson: I am sure he hast been very convincing lass
Sirac Gerardson: and I am fortunate no god hast ever taken such an interest in me
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods slowly* He's very good to me.
Sirac Gerardson: ~looks concerned~ is he really lass? when ye were with Sinjin...he was good fer ye, when ye were together anyway
Macha Sparrowsong: *eyes are haunted, not looking at him* It's different.
Sirac Gerardson: aye, tis, but the gods oft remind me of Lani
Sirac Gerardson: seeking to bully or mould us
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods slowly* He seeks to guide me...and...I suppose he has molded me in his way. I find myself especially lately not liking what I've become.
Macha Sparrowsong: *softly, almost as if she can't help but speak*
Sirac Gerardson: ye hast become naught lass, that grows clearer to me with every passing moment
Sirac Gerardson: ye are yerself, and ye are unhappy, that is what this...friend of yers sees anyway
Macha Sparrowsong: *shakes her head* I haven't been happy in some time. *reluctantly*
Sirac Gerardson: ~sits back, goblet in hand, looking quiet and sad~
Sirac Gerardson: ye already know, somewhere inside, what ye want then lass
Sirac Gerardson: no poor words of mine are going to make much of a change
Sirac Gerardson: when I saw ye, I didst not know what to expect
Sirac Gerardson: if it matters to ye, I am surprised and pleased to see my friend
Sirac Gerardson: ~slight smile~
Macha Sparrowsong: *small smile, eyes troubled*
Macha Sparrowsong: Perhaps I'm just good at pretending
Sirac Gerardson: ~looks to Macha~ mayhaps, only ye could know, twould not be the first time I have been fooled ~sighs~
Sirac Gerardson: it matters not
Macha Sparrowsong: *smiles, looking to him*
Sirac Gerardson: until I see true reason to feel otherwise, ye have my friendship
Macha Sparrowsong: Thank you for that.
Macha Sparrowsong: It means much to me to hear it, though it's difficult in some ways.
Sirac Gerardson: aye, us human are cattle after all, are we not? ~amused grin~
Macha Sparrowsong: *mouth quirks up* we usually say sheep
Sirac Gerardson: ahh, my bad
Sirac Gerardson: well, in any case, ye know how to get word to me
Sirac Gerardson: just leave a message at a tavern
Sirac Gerardson: ~grins~ this sheep likes to be well...watered
Macha Sparrowsong: *small laugh*
Sirac Gerardson: ~finishes his wine~
Macha Sparrowsong: aala...I do.
Sirac Gerardson: so if ye ever make a decision and want friends that choose to stand beside ye, and choose to take the consequences of doing so
Sirac Gerardson: then know Sol and I would both do so
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* thank you. I..don't wish to put anyone else in danger.
Macha Sparrowsong: but the thought is very kind.
Sirac Gerardson: I wouldst rather that a hundred times, than to see a friend made into something she is not
Sirac Gerardson: ~fervent tone~
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods, looking at him intently for a moment* thank you
Macha Sparrowsong: I'm sure it will be needed
Sirac Gerardson: in truth lass, we all die
Sirac Gerardson: tis how we live that matters...
Sirac Gerardson: to me anyway
Macha Sparrowsong: *runs a hand through her hair* aala..the living is the harder part.
Sirac Gerardson: ~nods and grins~ aye, but tis fun
Macha Sparrowsong: *lets out a breath* impeccable timing *shakes her head*
Macha Sparrowsong: some parts more than others
Sirac Gerardson: aye I know ~sympathy in his tone~
Sirac Gerardson: but we get through the bad so we can enjoy the good all the more
Macha Sparrowsong: *small smile* so there is good left?
Sirac Gerardson: aye, there is lass, always will be whilst we choose fer ourselves
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* thank you, Sir Sirac
Sirac Gerardson: ~mock growl~ and dont call me Sir
Macha Sparrowsong: You don't know how helpful you've been *seems calmer*
Macha Sparrowsong: *grins genuinely* You know I will never remember
Sirac Gerardson: ~shrugs~ so be it
((londo entered, lots of less relevant chat about elves and women))
Sirac Gerardson: well, it hast been nice to...catch up Lady Macha
Macha Sparrowsong: Sir Sirac, I very much .. enjoyed our talk.
Sirac Gerardson: me also, though that is hardly a surprise
Sirac Gerardson: ~sincere tone~
Macha Sparrowsong: *smiles slightly* Le, I suppose not.
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods to Londo* well, it seems I will be left to my own devices. I should rest up for what's ahead myself.
Sirac Gerardson: indeed, I think tis time fer me to return home also, well met Londo
Sirac Gerardson: ~looks to Macha with concern~ aye lass
Macha Sparrowsong: *smiles slightly at Sirac* I'll be in touch, aala.
Sirac Gerardson: ~tilts head~ as I said, ye know how to reach me lass
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* I'll send word. I don't enter Midor myself.
Sirac Gerardson: heh, I travel a fair bit myself, I find the holy city a little...restrictive these days
Sirac Gerardson: any tavern will do, they all know how to get word to me
Sirac Gerardson: ~grins back at uwe~
Macha Sparrowsong: *nods* I can imagine you would. And I frequent taverns myself, though not for the same reasons
Sirac Gerardson: ~slight smile and nods~ fare well then
Macha Sparrowsong: aala..and thank you.
Macha Sparrowsong: Be safe, Sir Sirac
Sirac Gerardson: *nods in farewell* |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 05:43 AM |
OK, having flicked though- though I will re-read in more detail later- Macha's a very conflicted individual.
I also know that Macha's playing a game at the moment which involves playing up her "I hate myself" side. Trishy hasn't explained in full detail, nor does she have to. It's something that ultimately she thinks will please Tarik, as it runs.
Macha and Tarik? Originally, I wasn't planning for the plot to have run anywhere near this long. However, it has, and it's still producing a pretty fair chunk of RP. I'd like- and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be so- for the plot to still pan out as planned, with Macha performing a nasty deed for Tarik and /then/ ending up making a final choice about what to do.
In regards to divine intervention, Tarik will do anything in his power. However, I speak to Trishy OOC a lot, and the second she wants it to end, for Macha to be allowed to go on her way, then the divine intervention aspect becomes a lot more dulled.
Ultimately, what does divine intervention in this mean? Tarik's not using any magic or spells to control Macha, at the moment- though it's something he would do, but probably won't have to. Divine intervention, for the most part, is a chat with Daddy every now and again where he re-assures her about herself, tells her how proud he is of her, and lets her go about her buisness. :P
-Barnas |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 05:54 AM |
Heh, dont get me wrong man, I said before I am unsure about the Tarik / Macha plot. The -only- thing I meant there was the whole being her daughter thing. It followed on a bit too closely from the Aros / Elvalia story, and personally was never that sure about it.
I like the plot a -lot- other than that one concern. And it has definitely created a lot of RP, and is great. Macha plays it wonderfully, and it is a great hook for her and others to RP from.
Just been on my mind for ages that Sirac, who has known Macha for a very long time, should eventually hear about this and confront her on it.
How the conversation went was actually unexpected for me. Sirac has always hated / rejected the gods, there are even clues to that in his character description. So despite the accuracy of some of the things he accuses them of, it is pure coincidence. He blames the gods for not restoring his parents to life when they had served Elbereth all their lives.
What came across loud and clear to me at the end of this is that Macha -might- be planning to reject Tarik. IC, purely IC, ooc I dont think she has any concerns what happens.
So all I am asking really is how people think this should play out IF she does choose to do so?
And by divine intervention, I was really referring to Tarik's threats of what he would do if she ever turned from him.
Cheers,
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 06:06 AM |
Surely people means me? [<- Joke, relating to RP by committee in IRC.]
Well, firstly, I honestly don't think that Macha is seriously considering leaving Tarik. So I'll say that first.
If she is, then it depends on Trishy. If Trishy wants Macha to go back to being more goodly, then Tarik will take a very standoffish approach to the whole thing. He'll calculate that threats are unlikely to work, and simply tell her that she's his daughter, he'll always be proud of her, and hint that she can't actually escape who she is- without threatening, say that she'll come back to him in time.
On the Divine side of things, he'll kick up a hissy fit so that other Gods don't accept her. Spoilt child who lost their toy. Something so that Macha can turn goodly again, but won't ever be accepted or welcomed by the other Gods again.
If Trishy, however, doesn't mind, Tarik will be a lot more actively involved. For the most part, talking, reassuring, and persuasion would still be his tools- but he'd be more active. Maybe some mind-alteringish spells to slightly modify her outlook. I don't think there'd be many threats, though possibly an undertone of threats. I don't want to end up with a situation where Tarik says "Leave and I kill you!", then Macha leaves. Since that means dead Macha. For that reason, I think threats are best avoided, and keep it all in the realms of talking.
-Barnas |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 07:42 AM |
On the Divine side of things, he'll kick up a hissy fit so that other Gods don't accept her. Spoilt child who lost their toy. Something so that Macha can turn goodly again, but won't ever be accepted or welcomed by the other Gods again.
Not sure what the "RP by committee" comment means as I am not in IRC at the moment. But I really don't see that the above would work. IMO Aros and Elbereth are not likely to listen to Tarik's hissy fit and would be more likely to welcome her with open arms (Elb at least) as a result?
Also can you really say that this is a fair thing to do after the way Fr'iel has behaved in relation to switching Gods and never suffered such a punishment?
I know that as DMs we can't check every single thing out with every other DM, but IMO it's worth discussing stuff sometimes, just to get other people's ideas and perspectives. (Assuming this is what "RP my committee" means). |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 07:54 AM |
Don't worry about RP by committee.
I'll admit, that's probably not the best idea. However, I don't have a better one just yet.
Ultimately, I'm trying to think of something which has a lasting effect, but isn't a kind of stupid punishment.
In the end, that might well just be the rest of the world "knowing" that she's the daughter of Tarik, and has killed people. Fri'el still gets associated with Gukathul, even though she never wanted to serve him, nor does she even like him. So it might not even need to be anything. Even though Tarik does love these little games that he plays, I certainly don't see him going to extreme lengths to keep Macha on side.
And I still think this whole conversation's redundant, because unless something changed last night- and that log doesn't make me think it has, rather Macha's still being her usual conflicted self- I don't think Macha is going to try and turn totally away from Tarik.
(I do still think, though, that the deities would respect each other's games. After all, if they piss each other off enough, one only has to start telling a few mortals the truth... and then the whole game's up. I can't see Vives deities working without some kind of uneasy alliance where they for the most part respect each other's wishes. Random aside over.)
And my only qualms about debating plots are plots which are already being run- it's not fun seeming to have to justify everything you do, especially in the middle of something.
*sighs* Sorry. I'm not feeling overtly well today, and this whole thing probably sounds more defensive and harsh than it's meant to.
So, yeah. I'm happy to discuss this, but I do think we're delving too far into fantasy, as I don't think Trishy's planning to try and have Macha totally abandon Tarik. I'll PM her and ask. If she is, we can keep on discussing. If not, there's no point.
-Barnas |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 08:07 AM |
*nods*
Brief reply from me, purely on the Macha issue rather than any underlying ones about gods and DM teamwork.
I also think there is a very good chance she doesnt have any intention, ic or ooc, to turn away. Though confirmation of her plans makes sense for B to get.
Anyway, I just wanted B to know what had been said, and wanted to discuss in terms of this plot, and in more general terms, what gods would and wouldnt / could and couldnt do in such a situation. What the limits are if you like.
Even though she almost certainly wont, if Macha was to spit in Tarik's face / roast his raven over an open fire, what would the repercussions be?
I know this was one of the main reasons we all agreed to keep actual divine appearances to a minimum, but nonetheless some plots will arise where gods and mortals have direct conflict, so how best to handle them. That does seem like something the "team" should discuss, aala? *grins*
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 08:26 AM |
Well, that is an interesting little debate. Prepare to be rambled at! :)
The Raven isn't Tarik. It's a manifestation, or an illusion. Or some other core figment. Much as Tarik plays up the Raven as being him, it isn't. He hasn't polymorphed himself into a Raven and put himself there. Obviously, the players believe that the Raven is Tarik, because it's the most natrual assumption. They're not, however, correct.
Tarik does, however, see through the Raven, and occasionally communicates "through" it- though that's projecting his thoughts through the Core, not the raven speaking.
Thus, actual direct contact with Tarik is still very, very rare- I can think of him using an avatar with Juylina on a couple of occasions, and with Macha also. He's also manifested himself to Macha directly a handful of times, and to a whole room of people when I clicked "appear" by mistake. (Yes, the last part's a joke. :P)
Oddly, the Raven's already been attacked on two occasions- by Lucius, and Dana. What did the Raven do? Idly keep dodging his dagger until he stopped. Same with Dana, though it also pecked her and she got a nasty bite which had to be healed.
So, with the Raven, a direct attack will almost certainly result in failure, and no repercussions- beyond perhaps Macha/Juylina/Someone else who believes the Raven to be a direct avatar of a God going mad. And why not?
If Tarik Himself is manifesting, or as an avatar- which, I hasted to add is very rare and usually as far away from mobs of people- things get messier. Which is what we're discussing, aala?
In my mind, it's fair game to do anything to a player stupid enough to knowingly attack an avatar of a God. In the rare cases where our deities manifest- and, since Vives is a single plane system, they are *somewhere* on Vives at any given time so it will happen- players who know what that "Strange Elven man in the corner" or "Stunningly beautiful lass with firey eyes" are and then still attack them should really realize that they've made a mistake. Anything short of permadeath.
Accidental attacks? Well, those I just try to avoid. Walk away from the combat. If a player doesn't know what they're doing- and they won't always- it's best just to avoid the situation, rather than throw the book at a player who was just RPing their PC as they would around another mortal.
In most situations, as long as the DM kill button is avoided, I don't see it being a problem. If a player's rude enough, they can be met by the deity's followers at a later date- in a fairer fight. There's no reason, to me, for them to respond instantly with a Core-Kill/DM-kill.
Back to Macha. If Macha did that, I think Macha loosing her looks and voice would be appropriate. So she's dumb and ugly, and the whole world learns to "Honor thy father". Or something. Honestly? I think that's one situation where I'd be on the forums begging for help coming up with something. :)
-Barnas |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 08:38 AM |
Heh, I was overstating what Macha would do as a kinda joke.
To be more literal, what happens if one day Macha does turn her back on Tarik. As nicely as she can. If it happens through Tarik discarding her once her usefulness is done, no problems. But if it happens through her choosing to walk away...how would you play it then?
That being just a specific example of the point of this thread. What restrictions do the gods operate under? I have always personally envisioned their powers to directly act against a mortal that insulted / angered them to be limited away from their own temple. Perhaps limited by a mutual agreement amongst the gods.
For example, Cantor had been mocking Naruth to a great extent. In the midst of the volcano being turned into an ice rink time period. When the temple was renewed and Ilyana made high priestess, he continued to do so. And finally, in Port did or said something that I thought was going too far...cant remember exactly what, but was something very likely to bring her attention, insulting one of her priestesses or the like.
So I made a gateway and had a fire giant weapon master appear. Cantor used a flesh to stone item and the giant rolled a 1. Sods law. So I let him have the victory, called the giant home, and he went on his way laughing his head off. Would have been easy to kill him, but seemed kinda poor form to do so. So to myself, I explained it away as the gods are not allowed to directly intervene too much / at all.
But not sure a DM consensus has ever been reached on how much direct intervention should be possible when a PC angers a god, through good RP rather than raiding their temples.
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 09:08 AM |
I think, to an extent, it should depend on the God. Helkris I don't see honestly caring. She'd wait for them to come to her. Tarik? Well, he's the god of the Hunt. Depending on the situation, he might continually send Hunters after said mortal, or actually hunt them himself- though that wouldn't happen with a PC.
In terms of DM consensus, I honestly think the most sensible thing is to trust each other to play the deities we've been asigned in a sensible fashion, and not come up with concrete or semi-concrete rules.
As you've shown in the Cantor example, we've got the sense to deal with things in a sensible manner, and it's never been a problem- so is more of a consensus needed than the one we apparently have where common sense dictates that deities don't harrass PCs?
If one is needed, I think something along the lines of "If a deity is angered in their "Holy Lands", then anything goes. In a situation where deity is angered outside of their sphere of direct influence, we shouldn't do anything which causes an unfair situation to be forced upon the character, and should almost certainly not involve direct divine involvement."
It does, though, strike me as much more of a situational thing than something we can- or should try to- make an absolute "rule" of sorts about.
... did that make any sense?
-Barnas |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 09:15 AM |
Yea, pretty much agree with all of the above then. In all honesty, Macha's (totally IC) concern that everyone she loves would be struck down if she turned on Tarik was what brought the issue up for me, otherwise doubt I would have even thought about it. And yes, Tarik would definitely make her believe such, no concerns there at all.
But would be, imo, too much to see that -actually- happen. Anyway we are on the same songsheet here so no worries.
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 11:30 AM |
Sirac Gerardson: why hast Midoran not killed me and mine? *very sincere tone*
It is all part of the greater plan. We always need bogey men handy to direct our hate towards. It's no use if we kill them all. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
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"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
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<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 11:35 AM |
Sirac Gerardson: why hast Midoran not killed me and mine? *very sincere tone*
It is all part of the greater plan. We always need bogey men handy to direct our hate towards. It's no use if we kill them all.
We also can't go around perma-killing people :P |
Juylina Komthya | Portrait - Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 12:40 PM |
Sirac Gerardson: why hast Midoran not killed me and mine? *very sincere tone*
It is all part of the greater plan. We always need bogey men handy to direct our hate towards. It's no use if we kill them all.
We also can't go around perma-killing people :P
Heh, actually the Midoran comments came directly from conversation with pdw about the FK and Midor, and how he wanted it to be played with Midoran present in the very city.
He wanted it made clear Midoran wasnt all powerful, omniscient and omnipresent. So took the opportunity to do so.
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 26 Jan 2006 12:42 PM |
Lies! all Lies!
Midoran is all powerful
*cough cough*
Heretics will report to the temple for justification. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 06:44 AM |
Right, y'all. Looks like, after much meandering, Macha might be considering leaving Tarik in some way.
Personally? I still don't think she will. But, it's enough of a possibility that I'll plan for it.
What will this mean? Well, this actually plays very well into Tarik's hands.
Tarik, going very indignant and moody, declares that the Ferein Elves and Humans have stolen his daughter from him. They must die. When Tarik first coerced Macha into his service, one of the major things was that the Hunt would be called off. It wasn't, but it has been more limited. Now, all the pent up rage, anger, and general wickedness of his followers is unleashed in about two weeks of slaughter. About 100 humans (Probably slightly more) a night are found impaled on spears, dead. This goes on until it gradually fades out, Macha begs Daddy to stop, or the PCs come up with a plan. I'm not railroading them on this, they see, and then react.
Fictrix also suggested the wholesale slaughter of the population of Paws, down to the last man, woman, and child. I love this idea. The important NPCs can be raised- and maybe Midor can use it as an excuse to expand into Paws?
After that, we get into the "Death of the Princess" plot, which will also be blamed on Macha's desertion. These actions, hopefully, either totally seperate Macha from Tarik, blackmail her into return, and/or make her a kind of albatross, someone who always seems to have grief following them. For a while, anyway, until it fades dependant on her choice.
Certain PCs will also suffer as a result. Minor things, I'm imagining. Lucius will loose an eye, and have the optic nerve wrecked with acid then the hole filled with dirt. He'll have to quest to fix it. (Comeuppance for attacking a God three times.)
I'll also think of some more minor things for the other humans involved. All in all, it should be a bit of fun. If it gets that far....
-Barnas |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 07:13 AM |
Heh, beat me to it man, although must admit still wasnt sure whether Macha was setting me up IC! Anyway, here is the PM I received...
((a note is left for Sirac at one of the Inns he frequents, the parchment rolled tightly and fastened with a ribbon of blue silk. The words of the handwriting are shaky and inelegant, and it is unsigned - only a single M underneath the words))
Help me.
I will be trying to get involved in this as much as I can as a player, but timezones and RL commitments may make that hard. Will see. Anyway, as such that limits the amount of feedback and DM input I want to make on this, if any.
As such all I will say is I am beginning to share Gasher's concerns over good and evil in Vives. So Tarik gets angry, and the above consequences occur. And where are Aros and Elbereth in all of this? Even Swiftfoot could be interested in helping someone like Macha.
Honestly, if a noteworthy goodly PC turns evil, do the "good" gods go on the rampage and slaughter loads of evil people? In fact, do the goodly gods really get involved much at all, in helping in any of these kinda events? Sol and I have been just as guilty of this with Naruth and Helkris, just sounding a note of concern.
Now the MOST IMPORTANT BIT of this message, consider it highlighted in technicolour and whatever else to make clear over the internet, I do like the plot idea, I think it has amazing potential for creating some great stories and RP . I am just sounding a note of caution, it falls into the concerns Gasher expressed so often. It will cause a lot of heartache for Trishy which she will play very well. Just keep in mind the MINOR concerns I am raising in Gash's absence! Maybe talk to Benny about Elb and Aros' role in all this? Up to you man anyway, that is my bit said, unless anyone else wants to add something.
Cheers,
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 07:21 AM |
Fictrix also suggested the wholesale slaughter of the population of Paws, down to the last man, woman, and child. I love this idea. The important NPCs can be raised- and maybe Midor can use it as an excuse to expand into Paws?
Paws already belongs to Midor. However... I wonder, maybe the FK can use it as a test of Midoran's omniscience? With his attention divided between Midor and Paws (which is a loyal colony, unlike Icy Vale *wryly*) they might be able to conduct enough quiet experiments to poke holes in the omniscience theory.
Too bad the schedule's all skewed and things under the Museum still need to get finished off, or it'd be one heck of a nice diversion to slip into Midor under.
Hmmm, a very small handful of RS permanently stationed in Paws, and one more excuse for Midor to move up its uptightness a couple of notches. I am liking this disturbing image of shattered tranquility. What do you say, Uncle Paul? |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 07:29 AM |
Of course the Goodly Gods get involved. Their part in it, indirectly, is the clerics raising the fallen. Obviously, not everyone killed will be raised- but their part is healing, consoling, and helping.
If the Good deities actually stopped Evil from happening, I think the server would get very, very boring very, very quickly! It's something you do have to ignore if you're *ever* going to run a plot in a DnD world.
-Barnas |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 07:30 AM |
It will cause a lot of heartache for Trishy which she will play very well. Just keep in mind the MINOR concerns I am raising in Gash's absence! Maybe talk to Benny about Elb and Aros' role in all this? Up to you man anyway, that is my bit said, unless anyone else wants to add something
No worries, I'll hold Gash's corner.
As said before, maybe not here but I think I pointed it out in IRC, Aros wouldn't be all that bothered - UNLESS - it starts washing over and begins to affect the elves of Ferein or those he does care about. If so expect fireworks, and not only from him. Elvalia is bored (the fact that whoever she is or isn't, Macha is a close friend as well is a factor).
IF Trishy/Macha does decide to go down that route and abandon Tarik, Elbereth would welcome her back, maybe not with open arms and I'm sure some homely advice. She certainly wouldn't turn her away, I can't think of a viable reason why she would.
But *repeats the technicolour highlights from Sirac's post* Go for it mate, good plot to run with, and we've been banging on long enough about who Ferein's real enemy is, about time we demonstrated same. What I would say is I'd prefer to get the draggy stuff done with first. So maybe could be just a tiny OOC hint to Trishy to string it out a bit until that's taken care of, which will be next weekend.
Will also of course be useful, B, in terms of what we discussed last week, I'm sure we can work that in or use this idea as factors.
Player wise - or PC wise, should I say - Elvalia has not met Macha in quite a while, but even should she while this doubting Thomas phase is going on, she wouldn't push, it's not in her nature - to her choice is important even if in her eyes it's the wrong one. She'll listen but the last thing she'd do is try and persuade. Most you'd get out of her - if it arose - would be a great big fat 'I told you so'
Go for it mate, we'll see what happens. |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 07:34 AM |
So maybe could be just a tiny OOC hint to Trishy to string it out a bit until that's taken care of, which will be next weekend.
This is a forewarning. I don't want to tell Trishy how to play out Macha's angst, I think she does a stunning job of playing her PC without thinking about OOC factors. However, that said, I really don't see Macha seriously trying to turn away from Tarik within the next couple of weeks. She's still too torn to actually commit to it.
And, like I said, I still think that Tarik will persuade Macha to stay onside until the Princess plot, when she'll probably do it, then bolt to the goodies. But too late!
-Barnas |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 07:35 AM |
Of course the Goodly Gods get involved. Their part in it, indirectly, is the clerics raising the fallen. Obviously, not everyone killed will be raised- but their part is healing, consoling, and helping.
If the Good deities actually stopped Evil from happening, I think the server would get very, very boring very, very quickly! It's something you do have to ignore if you're *ever* going to run a plot in a DnD world.
-Barnas
Gah, posted as I was writing.
B, you know my views on that from our conversation earlier in the week. No, there is a place for evil, totally agree there (hell, I've been involved in enough). Point I'm trying to make is don't expect it to act without reaction. As I said earlier in the week those days are over in my book. Not trying to stop evil from happening, but it is about time the goodly Gods - or those perceived as such - worked occasionally as advertised. |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 07:38 AM |
Absolutely fine with all the replies, no worries.
Ok, from my point of view Sirac IC would be looking to get to Macha, and get her away from Tarik pronto. The moment he gets the note he would grab Sol and be on his way, all other obligations forgotten. Joy of being chaotic... :0)
How do you want me to play this, just back off a bit? Or go for it, and rely on Macha taking time and convincing?
Cheers,
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 07:39 AM |
And again! Slow down!
This is a forewarning. I don't want to tell Trishy how to play out Macha's angst, I think she does a stunning job of playing her PC without thinking about OOC factors. However, that said, I really don't see Macha seriously trying to turn away from Tarik within the next couple of weeks. She's still too torn to actually commit to it.
Likewise, nor would I presume to tell her or anyone else how to play a scenario, all I meant was my focus is the draggies at the moment. I'd prefer to clear that before anything major kicks off in other directions. Knowing Trishy and bards, could be months anyway *grins* |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Macha and Tarik
Posted: 28 Jan 2006 07:41 AM |
Bah! Now he's at it too
How do you want me to play this, just back off a bit? Or go for it, and rely on Macha taking time and convincing
Slow but steady in my book, not just for reasons given above... imo steaming and trying to force the issue could have just the opposite effect |
ELVES! |
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