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Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 12 Jan 2006 01:51 PM |
I have encountered the following annoying thing: When I sell some stuff to a favorable shopkeeper, or buy something from her, the next time I meet her she doesn't like me anymore. This happens all the time, even though my ability scores, equipment and appraisal skills haven't changed at all.
What annoys me, is that I haven't found any logic to this, not yet at least. I was hoping that somebody could tell me what is causing this and if this is normal? I have tried to visit the shopkeepers at the same time of the day, but that isn't the answer either.
So, is this completely like it should be and we should view this as mood swings of the shopkeepers, or is there some kind of formula to their happiness? And if such a formula exists, please explain it to me, as their behaviour seems totally random to me. Is there something I'm missing that affects the appraising skill? And please, don't just say it's a FOIG thing. |
Characters IG:
Ertzi
Cerno Rapidshill |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 12 Jan 2006 01:55 PM |
| Put points in appraise. If it's untrained, you just get a d20 roll and I think your charisma bonus is weighed in too. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 12 Jan 2006 01:58 PM |
whether they like you or not depends on your charisma, your race, your class, plus the roll of 1d20. What you sell the items for depends on your int and your appraisal skill plus the roll of 1d20.
It's a standard function that bioware provides for determining what the merchant thinks of you that day which we have no control over beyond the ones we control with our characters.
- Paul
Edit: no, sorry..it is only based on appraise apparently. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
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<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 12 Jan 2006 02:06 PM |
Appraise is based off your intelligence score, the higher your intelligence, the better you can appraise an item accurately, instead of letting a vendor rip you off, I guess. You always get a 1d20 roll, but, like every other skill in the game (Heal, craft armor) it just works more often in your favor when you have a nice fat bonus after the d20. A roll is made the first time you visit a vendor during THAT reset.... and that's your permanent roll until next reset. Then, your modifiers are stacked ontop of that. The modifiers can change, (and the server will take the highest you ever had as your permanent level for that merchant) but the roll of d20 stays the same. So, if you come to a vendor, and you measure "unfavorable" closing the shop inventory, equipping a pair of "Gloves of appraisal" and opening up his shop again may prove you favorable, and will stay that way even if you take your gloves off again.
That said, any bonus of anykind will always improve. If you roll a 7, and have +4, 3 from gloves, +1 from 12 intelligence, that gives you 11, and you'll be favorable (or whatever, I don't know the exact numbers) if you cast a fox's cunning spell, that may fetch you another 4 points (if you're lucky) in intelligence, giving you additional appraise ranks (2, actually) which would bring you up to 13. Sell prices are more and buy prices are cheaper at 13 than 11... They are cheaper at 20 from 19.... and if you're moving a lot of gold around, that small percentage of markdown really starts making real money. Sometimes you can actually save money by buying a fox's cunning potion/scroll from the vendor you're selling/buying from, using it, re-appraising, and proceeding to buy and sell your items.
Now, I'm not teaching everyone how to Scam gold, or farm gold in vives, I'm just knocking the Vives merchants down a peg, they are already pretty greedy, and there are a lot of people out there who have no idea how other people make any money. This is one of those ways.
Edit: Oh, PD kinda beat me to it,
(Yeah, PD they changed the system once Appraise came in *sigh* no more filthy rich bards selling stuff at the bard store *is talking about another server) |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 12 Jan 2006 02:52 PM |
Not to mention game mechanics at all, I have found IG that one vendor in particular has taken a dimmer and dimmer view of Lucius as time has gone on - Omiga, that tight b******.
Two or three levels back, when I had a lower appraise score and didn't walk around with as many buffs to my intelligence, he was offering a heckuva lot more for rings than he does now. Everyone I talk to suggests it's because he's a gnome...as though that explains everything.
I'm thinking I shouldn't have interrupted Solus when he was threatening to turn the chap to cinders. Perhaps someone more fair would have taken over.
*Sigh* |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 12 Jan 2006 06:25 PM |
Just a little addendum here.
1) As people said, it's based entirely on your Appraise skill.
2) Now, I am betting that what you are used to is that the shopkeeper will react once, then remember that reaction. So if they are favourable to you when they first meet you, their reaction will not change unless your Appraise improves (either by putting points in it, or raising INT, or using items... whatever). So the next time they see you, they will remember their last reaction, they will remember what your last Appraise score was, and they will only re-roll if your new Appraise skill is higher than what it was last time they saw you.
Now... as far as I know, Vives has not edited the shop appraisal script at all (it was the one Bioware introduced in SOU). This means... that it is supposed to be DB-driven to remember (i) what your last Appraise skill was last time you met the shopkeeper and (ii) what their reaction to you was... BUT since Vives has a custom database, none of that information is actually getting saved (and just as well; that's a helluva lot of data for a helluva lot of shopkeepers for every single individual character on the server).
So what is happening is that it's not remembering anything.
So every time you browse a store, it will always roll Appraise. It will always be random. It will never fix itself and remember what the last reaction was, regardless of whether or not your Appraise score changes.
I can double-check and look at the script, but I'm pretty sure that's what's happening. If the shopkeeper reaction changes every single time, even if your Appraise hasn't changed, it's the only explanation: they don't remember. It's always re-rolled. |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 13 Jan 2006 12:01 AM |
| It's re-rolled after every reset. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 13 Jan 2006 12:05 AM |
| I swear sometimes I get different results on the same reset. |
Juylina Komthya | Portrait - Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 13 Jan 2006 01:01 AM |
| you can, as they said above. i've never had a positive result go 'down', though. might happen if your spell wears off or you remove some gear that helped you. Veran (i think) said that it will not decrease because it remembers your highest score, and only re-appraises if your modifier goes up. |
-Gnimini // gnomish wizard facinated with tailoring
-Mirg // young human ranger
-Dredger Hack'nchant // dwarven spellsword
-Hallelujah // gnomish singer and songwriter
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"i just can't wait till this squirrel mating season is over, those bug |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 13 Jan 2006 01:16 AM |
Okay, just had a peek at the code, and Uncle Paul is right. The merchants will remember your appraise result for the duration of one reset, but after reset, their memories get wiped.
A merchant will only re-roll if your appraise skill goes up from the last time you spoke to them (either by INT boosting spells or by putting in ranks in the skill or using Appraise or INT boosting items). |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 13 Jan 2006 01:54 AM |
actually, I'm pretty sure I have had different rolls at the same merchant, whithout having changed my appraise or INT level.
I have compared prices on items at different merchants before, and when I have come back to the merchant with the better price, it has gone down. (not over a reset either)
(this is assuming my mind isn't playing tricks on me... which is possible, but I will try it deliberately (open close and open again) next time I am at a store and post the results here) |
"I'm not closed-minded, you're just WRONG." - Bucky Katt
My characters n portraits |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 13 Jan 2006 02:33 AM |
alright.. it's official.. I'm loosing my marbles... same prices, no matter how many times I check.
*scratches head and wanders off* |
"I'm not closed-minded, you're just WRONG." - Bucky Katt
My characters n portraits |
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Re: Shopkeepers' mood swings
Posted: 19 Jan 2006 06:48 PM |
I also noticed the 'mood swings' for merchants. I had wondered about that. One time even when speaking to a fellow Dwarf (Merchants Guildhouse in Buckshire) I was favorable, then remembered I didn't have my Appraise +3 gloves on. Canceled the transaction, equipped the gloves, and went back. Unfavorable.
I KNEW I should have went with the Peppermint Altoids! Those cinnamon ones just aren't the same ... |
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