|
Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 16 Apr 2005 11:06 PM |
Ok maybe this isnt the best time to writte this but I must do it.. So forgive me if Im not clear or if I am a litle bit harsh.
I was playing Siam, and for the 4th time I was 1k from level 10 when sudenly I died again... after hitting respawn 3 times, I couldnt do it this time I just left. Fortunately I saw someone in that area and logged in, Lucky bastard I am, He found me and got help. I was raised, and sudenly I see a message in yellow... I THOUGHT what and then saw that 1319xp penalty wich is in fact more then respawning.. Does this make any sence.. K I better stop here because from now on I think I will only make things even more dificult..
Just to add, I most players I asked if they knew about it were kinda of shoked.. Anyone care to explain this kind of penalty? Its just ..bah whatever |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
  |
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 16 Apr 2005 11:14 PM |
| Oh just to had I wasnt more then 5-10 minutes IG dead when my char was found dead. The rest of the time, around another 10-15 minutes was just the RP between the rescuing chars to save Siam. So WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SYSTEM.... RES him quickly or he will be more and more penalised bah... |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 16 Apr 2005 11:17 PM |
| Oh did I mentioned that I died because of a lag spike that was enough to bring a Bear near me and kill me... ah right.. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 12:36 AM |
Well, I don't know the ins and outs of the system, but I do know that as soon as you die you start to accrue xp penalty. Supposedly this penalty will peak at the point it would if you would hit respawn. As an example:
Say player A died. He now has 2 choices, respawn or wait.
If he hits respawn he will lose 1000 xp.
If he waits, then perhaps if raised immediately he will lose 200.
If it take 30 minutes he will lose 600.
And say anything after 1 hour he will lose the same 1000 he would if he respawned.
That is my basic understanding of how the system works.
Hope that helps clarify a little bit. Also I think the death penalty is %3 of total xp currently.
I'm sure a dm will post shortly with a better answer than I. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 01:40 AM |
Wow, if thats true, then thats kinda.... not good.... :)
I think (this is my personal opinion) that if you were raised any which way you shouldnt loose anything.... but thats just me. |
Characters of Lore:
Melchiah Rhinehart : <DEAD>
Ichbin Rhinehart: <Missing>
Daniel Winborne: Currently Venturing |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 02:11 AM |
(a) Try not to die because
(b) Death is not to be taken lightly on Vives
Umm there are numerous threads on death all over the place, the main one on Death being here in the Essential Info forums. Basically—no one knows how the resurrect/respawn system works save for DMs, and that is how it shall remain.
The XP penalty for being raised is there for a good reason. It's to discourage people from dying. To stop dying, you either stop going to dangerous areas or party up. Because parties are fun and induce roleplay and increase survivability. If you're in a timezone where it's hard to get a party, I guess that's what the static quests are for and what crafting is for. Yah, not as fun, I know, but that is a side effect of Vives being a roleplay server. Can't roleplay by yourself. Oh. Well, you can, if you don't feel silly talking to yourself or talking to NPCs. That can get quite fun, actually.
But yes. The main explanation is in the essential thread on death, as well as all the reasoning behind it, and I think it's really good reasoning. I would take my insane little thrillseeking Gnome anywhere dangerous and not care if she dies, because I don't care about levelling her and she doesn't care either. But my sane characters are more cautious and will not go places where there's a good chance of dying. Heck, Gwyneira refuses to cast any spells in Icy Vale and will not go in there if she has any visible enchantments on her. Personally, I agree with the death system. It makes it easier to see what your character's point of view on death is, and makes you less careless. Dangerous places are actually dangerous, especially when you're alone! Who would have thought? :) |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 02:12 AM |
Wow, if thats true, then thats kinda.... not good.... :)
I think (this is my personal opinion) that if you were raised any which way you shouldnt loose anything.... but thats just me.
That's how it used to be, and it led to lots of OOC interaction to get raised in order to avoid the xp loss. This system makes sense on several levels.
1: It reduces the OOC because either way you'll take a hit, death should hurt.
2: From IC perspective the longer a person lies dead, the harder it is to recall their spirit or soul back to their flesh. Therefore it's going to hurt more over time.
I personally think the system is great, though if it is in fact bugged and causing a loss of more xp than if you respawned, then that may need reworked. Also, I don't know the exact percentages, but take my 14th level character as an example. The other day in the volcano she died several times. If she had to respawn she would have lost several thousand xp, luckily there was a priest along with, and so she lost only about 2-300 each time she died. That is a pretty huge difference. If she had to wait, then it would have been less so, however she still loses no gold (unless the priest demands compensation). So no matter what, getting raised is a better option. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 03:08 AM |
Thank you Calmeir and Fictrix. You are both 100% right.
With the minor exception that the increments of time are actually a fair bit longer than you suggest as examples. This system was discussed at huge length, on both the DM forums and player forums before it was introduced. Not sure that thread still exists now, as it was a very long time back. But worth all reading Fictrix's link, which is from the essential information forum:
All that said, the incident Ch'ang speaks of is definitely not how the system was intended to be. If a priest really did wander by just a few minutes after he died, the xp hit should have been minimal. So either:
a) He's made a mistake or b) he's found a bug.
I know the system has generally worked spot on, without any problems for the last however many months. So unlikely to be a bug, but send all the details to pdw and he should be able to investigate it very easily, as all the details...when you died, how much later you were res'd, and how much xp you lost, are recorded by the database.
Cheers,
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 04:06 AM |
What Sirac, Fixtrix and Calmier said.
As a regulare customer of Gukathul's I have to say on a balance this is better system. Even with a sister (um friend) who is a Priestess of Aros, the fact I pay XP everytime I did (which is a lot) means I am a lot more wary of death than I used to be and thats how it should be.
I'm still a little trigger happy (see post soon to be coming on Dragon fighting) but I still do hesitate every now and then.
Are you sure it wasnt 1.3k GP loss because thats nearly 3 times more than I pay for a resurrection and Im 20th level.
Just one quick reminder (and I like to point out again this probably affects me more than any other player in Vives) but in PnP if you are raised you lose a level. Pure and simple. So a little XP is not so bad.
My only concern is the XP depletion thing combined with XP loss but thats a whole other issue.
On a balance, this system is much better than it used to be, you just have to bear in mind that when you lose XP it really hurts so you might not see it in a positive way.
That said, Cha'ang's problem sounds more specific and I would imagine Sirac is right, its either a mistake or a bug. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 05:29 AM |
Hi,
1/ Siam had been dead for a considerable amount of time. Not 10 to 15 minutes.
2/ There comes a time when a rez costs the same as a respawn, never more.
3/ The xp penalty applied was the correct amount for this situation.
4/ Calmiers observation is correct in idea, but wrong in terms of the numbers and times. Don't take them as gospel. An enterprising adventurer could arrange a series of deaths and work it out, but that would be pointless.
As Fictrix pointed out, this thread in the essential information forums covers the details of the death system. If you have not read it, get thee hence and read it, then come back here. It *is* in the essential information forums and it is assumed that you are all familiar with what is written there.
5/ Lag is no stranger to anyone who plays online. Again and Again and Again it has been said. Party up. You will minimize your risks that way. If you go solo and something bad happens... *shrug* Well, you knew the risks and decided to chance it at your cost. With great rewards, there can be great risk. To get the rewards while denying the risks is, well..foolish, and no amount of crying foul will get any sympathy from me.
6/ If people are unhappy with the raise/respawn system, and if enough people ask for it, I can easily switch it over to 3e norms. i.e.
- raises cost one level of experience per raise.
- no respawns.
Personally I would not enjoy that system, but I will implement it if the demand for a "fairer" system is asked for.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 06:06 AM |
I vote for the 3e system.
Don't forget level 1s loosing a point of CON if raised, loss of prepared spells, and the time limits on raise dead working. (Order of minutes.)
-Barnas |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 06:08 AM |
| *Watches numbers drop at the mention of perma death* |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 06:12 AM |
Oi, the discussion has been had and implemented, this is NOT another discussion about changing the res xp system or introducing permadeath etc. So there *sticks out tongue*
Ch'ang, sorry Siam had a hard time, but after looking at the actual server facts and figures it's not a bug. Get IG and RP your heart out and you'll soon get the xp back .
- Sol |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 06:52 AM |
Personally I would not enjoy that system, but I will implement it if the demand for a "fairer" system is asked for.
- Paul
Very nicely phrased. Or very cleverly phrased.
You sure you not a lawyer. Leading questions like that get people the Chair. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 07:56 AM |
| Well, I'm glad we've had this little conversation. See, I keep dieing for some reason, and this time I was partied up with someone too. Well, I basically said "RUN!" after 5 seconds of combat, and he lived and I died. All I could think was "I am NOT starting back on square one for this level again!" Two days later (and numerous IG hours while hoping he could find a cleric), I think it's time to respawn and start at sq. 1 again. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 09:51 AM |
As I stated in my first post, When I died I logged out right away I was so freaking pissed for what it happened that I turned the game off right away and went to do another thing as it would be the 3 or 4th time dieing near leveling...
Then I Saw a char in the near area He was in scorched earth, and Siam was in Buckshire Ruins. So I did has Sirac said instead of being dead for eternity I logged in as I thought that char would pass in that place .. I was correct. That char was not able to res me , even being a cleric. So he went to call for help, and thats when Siam stays dead for a longer time IG... So yes I do think it is very unffair, has it doesnt give chance for people to RP any type of recue, but to make as fast as possible to avoid great penalties.
I am still even more pissed since it was a stupid lag spike that got Siam to die. So If PD says he was a fair amount of time dead ig maybe it was my perception of time passing waiting for the others to be back that was wrong, Im sure the logs dont lie.
And sorry for the first posts, Im still very anoyed with this but yesterday I was very pissed and nervous for dieng once again like that specialy. So delete them as you think best. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 09:58 AM |
Also I spoke with some people who said well maybe you should party up more... Let me say this Im in European time, when not many chars are logged in, I have been publicly conected to undead forces, now do you really think this is a char that other chars will likely have around them. NO so some chars may have a hard lonely life, and necros are just not the socializer type... Specially into a certain stage.
Sol ok if you say it wasnt a bug maybe it was a freeze in my comp hell what can I say. I start runing bear is farly away from me and sudenly he is on top of me. And if you have the logs you'll also see I have respawning with no problems as I die. Just this time it is too much for me... Oh also being alone, also means something, yes being a lone char means no RP XP most of times for 2 reasons. DM are not that many so they tend to focus in groups, and RPing alone is a bit...well... |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 10:02 AM |
Oh also being alone, also means something, yes being a lone char means no RP XP most of times for 2 reasons. DM are not that many so they tend to focus in groups, and RPing alone is a bit...well...
Only thing I will say is remember that DMs see everything that is said or emoted anywhere on the server. And it is likely that if you do little bits of rp when solo, sooner or later it -is- something that will be rewarded, as it is more fun for us to watch.
The DMs definitely will reward such rp from time to time. I have seen it happen plenty, both as a player and definitely when I DM.
Cheers,
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 10:05 AM |
| ah the price of evil..... look on it as a challenge see if you can get 2000xp from dms by rping with you undead friends |
Its easy clinging to your moral high ground when you have everything, try it when you have nothing left.
Cain Angus |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 10:08 AM |
| Very true what Sirac says there, I have a low level monk I like to play occasionally, with a whole load of custom text macro fighting style descriptions set up. Doesn't happen often but the DM's will occasionally throw him some RP xp awards when I'm using them solo, so theres always someone watching you...... wahahah |
"Mistakes have been made, others will be blamed..." |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 10:10 AM |
Besides you always have familiars. I argue with mine regularly. He often wins!!!
That said Custom Text Macros are cool if you dont need 50 slots for spells *grins*
Can we have some more please Bioware |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 10:16 AM |
Ok this post goes for ALL OF YOU WHO CURRENLY ABUSE OOC WAYS; THAT MEANS METAGAMING.
Its because of crap like that that we are in this stupid situation think about that... |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 10:29 AM |
I have to say OOC or no OOC, this is still a better system if you ask me.
But that is just me. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 12:36 PM |
Hey Ice, I hear you and I know dying sucks.
At this point, all I can offer is advice. Being a mage, I strongly suggest always keeping one invisibility and one expeditious retreat spell handy for situations like these.
It is a combination that has saved my mage many times.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Being ressed is worse then hit RESPAWN
Posted: 17 Apr 2005 01:13 PM |
Sol ok if you say it wasnt a bug maybe it was a freeze in my comp hell what can I say. I start runing bear is farly away from me and sudenly he is on top of me. And if you have the logs you'll also see I have respawning with no problems as I die. Just this time it is too much for me... Oh also being alone, also means something, yes being a lone char means no RP XP most of times for 2 reasons. DM are not that many so they tend to focus in groups, and RPing alone is a bit...well...
I meant that the RP xp thing was not a bug, I wasn't talking about the lag. We have all suffered from that and it is hard I know, but we can't do anything about lag as DMs and we can't offer free resses for lag deaths because otherwise all deaths would be lag deaths *smiles*. (And yes this is a bit a case of some people suffer for the bad behaviour of others. But that's sadly the way it is in life and on-line gaming and mainly why we have most of our rules on Vives, to minimise where possible on DM policing and maximise on fairness, a tough job for us!).
Another important point is that the total time between dying and respawn/res xp penalty is RL time NOT IG time. That is stop people doing (unfortunately) just what Siam did, dying then logging out and only logging back in to get ressed. The idea behind this is as someone pointed out earlier, the longer you are dead then the more difficult it is to restore you to life. Your essence has degraded (or whatever!). And if the game was RL, you couldn't just log out and back in again (though that would be nice sometimes).
The RP xp thing is up to you, I did say "RP your heart out" it WILL get noticed.
Thanks,
Sol |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
|
|
|