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IG relationships
Posted: 17 Feb 2005 04:39 PM |
Role Playing relationships:
First a few clauses for this thread:
Off topic threads will be deleted. Please keep on topic.
Please post constructively, and only post if really have something to add to the conversation.
While some may disagree with the viewpoints espoused below, please at least try and take on board how some people feel.
This is in no way intended to be a ruling, or a criticism of any particular individual.
It is intended to promote discussion and a bit of thought, and make players aware of some thoughts amongst the DM team.
Ok, here we go. Currently some DMs are really, really struggling with some of the rp we see IG about relationships. There is a feeling characters are being created purely to rp relationships. And that some of the relationships forming IG are happening unbelievably fast, and are in general not being rp'd in a believable manner.
Two actual “rules” exist regarding RP’ing relationships.
The first is the PG13 rule. And this will be enforced, no RP of an "adult" nature is to take place IG.
The second is that romantic RP should be consensual, not just between PCs, but the two players themselves. Do not force romantic RP on anyone. Only pursue an IG relationship after you have spoken with the player OOC. Do not take for granted that they are OK with it. We all have different comfort levels, not only with IG romance, but with confronting someone who is trying to initiate such RP. So take the initiative and ask the player. If they are either clearly disinterested or non-committal, leave them alone. This is a serious issue. We have had a recent report of this. PC1 tried to initiate a romance with PC2. PC2 demurred, but whenever PC2 logged in, PC1 would show up. OOC, PC2 told PC1 he/she was not interested and the behaviour lessened. I am sure that PC1 had no idea he/she was causing discomfort to PC2. However, it was up to PC1 to ensure that PC2 was ok with this. PC2 may not have felt comfortable initiating an OOC conversation with PC1 and left the server. That is unfair to all of us.
And be respectful of the fact that not everyone, both players and DMs alike, is comfortable with witnessing that form of RP. While players may simply leave an area to escape mushiness, DMs do not have that choice. When DMs are logged in, everything every player says, wherever they are in the world, is seen on their screen. Please keep this in mind when you RP a romance.
We also ask that people think a little more before embarking on rp'd relationships. Relationships are something that should happen naturally, over time, and be an addition to the rp here, not the sole focus. Some characters really have seemed to pursue such a goal with near single minded determination. Take it slowly! Deep, caring relationships do not spring up in a few days or a week RL time. The best relationships we've seen RPed took at least 2 months just to get together, and a further 5 or 6 before culminating in a marriage or binding vow to one another. And they happen naturally, never seem forced or pre-planned!
And weddings should definitely be a rare and special event that a lot of build up rp has gone into. The courting period before a wedding should at least exist! *grins* Again, not aimed at any current spate of weddings, but at the last few months and the growing trend.
Also RP out problems, compromises, issues, etc. There aren't many folk in the world who have the perfect relationship and never argue, discuss differences, etc. And when both partners are armed with all manner of weaponry... *grins and winces*
Seriously though, we just think it makes for a much more interesting RP relationship if the characters do have problems to solve with one another, and if the characters as individuals develop as a result of the proximity to another person.
Finally, it's a very good idea to make sure that your character does have a life outside the relationship! So if the other player isn't able to connect for a while, you can still play your character without relying on the other character being there.
Vives is a high fantasy server. And a rp server. But its focus is not on being like the Sims. So all we are asking is that the wholesale rp of relationships be toned down, a little more realism be brought into such rp, and that it be a part of the "living breathing world" that is Vives, not the sole objective.
Thoughts?
The Vives Team |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 17 Feb 2005 06:37 PM |
I have to say that seeing as i have a character that is in game married that character relationships can be good. But your right there not for everyone.
I think everyone in game could talk of the many problems Jand and Ana have had from when they started laughing and joking together to there fun with Midor and memory loss and all the things in between.
But Sara would not agree with all the kissing and public displays of effection because of urgk and coodies, *nods* and because boys smell.
But it has to be said that some of the best rped conflicts i have seen in game have been from character relationships.
My little words
Carlton ;D |
Its easy clinging to your moral high ground when you have everything, try it when you have nothing left.
Cain Angus |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 17 Feb 2005 06:47 PM |
May only thoughts on the subject (and forgive me Sirac I havent had time to read your post in full) but I dont have a problem with IG relationships.
That said, i think people do sometimes fail to appreciate that we are RPing adventures in a fantasy setting, and instead they seem to pursue a very more mundane existance, more akin to Emmerdale Farm.
Now of course whilst there is nothing wrong with this if thats what they want, I cant help but fail to think this isnt the right setting for it. This isnt really confined to IG relationships but some RPing as a whole.
That said, if this is an angle to add depth to an adventurers personality then I think it is all good. Personally an adventurer without this depth is just as bad as an adventurer or doesnt adventure.
I guess what I am saying is "Happy Medium".
Just my thoughts. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 17 Feb 2005 06:48 PM |
I fully agree with what you wrote Sirac. I know how some of the DMs feel about PC relationships (*wink wink to a certain DM* ;P) but I think that a relationship can indeed further the already excellent roleplaying that I have seen on Vives.
To give one example there was the strange relationship between Quies, Calmeir and Xaranthir. It never went beyond "courting" and although most of the roleplay only took place between 3 players, it was some of the best I was ever part of. It never came to a marriage or even to saying "I love you". The emotions were there though and you could almost feel the uneasiness between Calmeir and X.
But to have a relationship purely for the sake of it... I don't know. The above example was something which developed after hoooooooooours of roleplay (I can't even remember how many, but ask Calmeir for it was a lot) and since it never even got past the point of declaring love, all players consented to it. There was never any uneasiness. I wouldn't like it either quite frankly if another PC suddenly approached one of my characters and started flirting or whatnot out of the blue.
Yes there are things like crushes, but as was written above in Sirac's post, this is still a high fantasy world. Play a crush if both players consent to it, but don't just start something like this. I'd find it rather apalling. Nor would I like to even pass such a scene. So to be able to read it all as a DM is not something I'd like either. I like realism in my game, but too much realism and I can go play in the real world. This is still a game and I'd like it to stay enjoyable for all, not just for the players, but also for the gamemasters.
So in short: romances do have their place, but don't push the envelope.
Just my 2 cents. |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 18 Feb 2005 02:08 AM |
I like realism in my game, but too much realism and I can go play in the real world.
Couldnt agree more. Emmerdale Farm anyone? No? Ok then!.
This is still a game and I'd like it to stay enjoyable for all, not just for the players, but also for the gamemasters.
Thats what torture was invented for! *grins* |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 18 Feb 2005 07:00 AM |
That said, i think people do sometimes fail to appreciate that we are RPing adventures in a fantasy setting, and instead they seem to pursue a very more mundane existance, more akin to Emmerdale Farm.
Now of course whilst there is nothing wrong with this if thats what they want, I cant help but fail to think this isnt the right setting for it. This isnt really confined to IG relationships but some RPing as a whole.
I am in total agreement with this and Sirrac's post.
I don't have a problem with in game relationships per-say but there is high fantasy roleplay ('those dang red-armoured knights are getting meaner by the day' etc.) and not so high fantasy roleplay ('pushes her until she squeaks' etc.). Sometimes, I do play online here and not have the best of times RP-wise because of things I get caught up in. Not often or always, but sometimes. |
Jack Sprat - Dashing half-elven 'pirate' rogue
Rasputin Kalarmander - Old human cleric of Elbereth
Coral Shadeleaper - Timid elven wizard
Fenris Wolf - Barbarian elf ranger
Leaf Barksson - Elven druid
Xyfar-noo - Dwarven traveling cleric |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 18 Feb 2005 08:09 AM |
('pushes her until she squeaks' etc.).
Not sure I've seen that side to IG relationships!!! *grins crudely*
Sometimes, I do play online here and not have the best of times RP-wise because of things I get caught up in. Not often or always, but sometimes.
Absolutely agreed. I think it also comes from the perception in online gaming that RPing is talking and therefore as long as you are talking, irrespective of whether its worthwhile, its RPing.
Thats just my 2pence anyway. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 18 Feb 2005 11:15 PM |
*Jonny lovingly applies some highlights to his painting and glances at the model lying partly in and partly out of the water*
" I trust you dont worry yourself with the complications of relationships lass ?"
Not waiting for her answer
" Good , now come inside and see my etchings " |
If you catch a butterfly.
You can either keep it and watch it die.
Or let it go and watch it fly away.
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 19 Feb 2005 06:38 AM |
" Good , now come inside and see my etchings "
ROFLMAO.
What a chat up line. You charmer! |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 08 Jul 2006 01:21 AM |
News flash: it's not fun to have DM Spy spammed with smut or sappy discussions about relationships.
Read the first post peeps. Please do. Vives is not The Sims or some soap opera. Go play your fantasies out elsewhere, but don't do it here. |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 08 Jul 2006 01:33 AM |
| *Nico gets out his pen and pad* Excellent...more gossip for the masses! |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 08 Jul 2006 01:59 AM |
"Amna'rak, if you hear or see people being sappy, you have free license to disrupt it in any way you see fit."
The mummy looked like he wanted to blink - not that he actually could, mind you. "Why is that Xa'anthi'?"
"They disrupt my concentration and make it hard to uncover secrets, let alone just walk around in peace."
"Will I get a t'umpet then?"
"You'll get whatever you wish for. I'll even give you your violin back." he stopped abruptly as he turned his head slightly, "Listen. Do you hear that? I think they're at it again! Go Amna'rak! Make me proud!" |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 08 Jul 2006 02:01 AM |
| *Cheers for the relationship persecution squad, awards RP XP* |
The subculture of my dreams
Is waiting for me to fall asleep.
I know you're scared—you should be.
I know you're scared. |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 08 Jul 2006 04:09 AM |
| Nothing new to add, but still; I think that Romance-RP can add a lot to the game and it can affect characters really nicely (Hell, Anakin became Darth Vader cuz of love), and I'm up for it, but yes, not by over-doing it. This IS a fantasy world, and I agree that coming here solely for relationships is missing what Vives is. They can and should be part of the RP, IMO, but not with most of the focus. |
Ayntherian Tîwele - Elven Monk, earnest student of Ki and the Martial Arts
His Diary - Updated at 26/8/2006 with ENTRY VII |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 08 Jul 2006 07:32 AM |
Just please try to keep in mind the PG 13 guidelines, on what and how you RP this, also remember we do have a base of younger players as well as those who are old as time (i.e. me). You can't be sure of the age of the people around you, so ask and keep it within the limits.
Another thing to remember folks is that, while you may be enjoying this style of RP, try and keep it private between you. Having been caught in a situation where I was stuck with a couple of players engaged in some very heavily "romantic" RP, I can honestly say I felt extremely uncomfortable with it... so please "Get a room..." |
"Mistakes have been made, others will be blamed..." |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 08 Jul 2006 07:54 AM |
Another thing to remember folks is that, while you may be enjoying this style of RP, try and keep it private between you. Having been caught in a situation where I was stuck with a couple of players engaged in some very heavily "romantic" RP, I can honestly say I felt extremely uncomfortable with it... so please "Get a room..."
And if you can't get a room, use Tells. At least then you're not bothering anyone. ;) |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 08 Jul 2006 11:06 AM |
| Actually, please use tells. They don't clutter up the DM channel. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
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"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
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<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 09 Jul 2006 02:00 AM |
Actually, please use tells. They don't clutter up the DM channel.
Hmm...do I dare wade into this thread?
Even if you use tells, its best you keep to PG-13 guidelines, lest you get eaten by a landshark...
I'm not jumping on the bandwagon, because I'd be a hypocrite to do so...but I have been in the position of being pretty embarrassed that a DM saw something slightly racy that I'd typed (and, *cough*, sent me a tell pointing it out)...and, umm....my character did get eaten.
RB
*promises to act with decorum in public places*
*fingers crossed behind back* |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 10 Jul 2006 01:57 AM |
I'll also wade in slowly...
I personally don't have a problem with IC relationships, but I very much agree that they should evolve over time, and make sense in character. After all, you should be acting in a way that your character would, in any given situation... (though, PC's created just to pursue a relationship? ...I don't really see a reason for that. And obviously, it is something that quite a few players and DM's would rather not happen)
That being said,
yes, one of my PC’s became involved in quite the extended relationship... EVEN after I had created in her background, (what I thought was) a pretty solid reason for my character NEVER to want to end up in one.
That it somehow evolved from being an acquaintance through a mutual friend... then discovering that said friend was engaged to this guy... then the mutual friend "died" and disappeared from the world... my PC found that this guy she had been engaged to, jumped into another relationship right away... my PC became so angered by this disrespect for their parted friend, that she wanted to kill him... only to have him put on such a performance of being completely broken by the loss, that he just needed something... it melted my PC's heart to where she didn't want to kill him anymore... they became uneasy friends (or at least had an understanding) and eventually grew to be friends because they both shared the pain of the loss of their friend... as they came to know each other better, their bond grew deeper and before I knew it, Cora was deep in a relationship with Johe Jaxon.
And just like Phoenix in a post of his way up there ^, some of the best RP I have been a part of in Vives was a direct result of that relationship.
AND... just to add another two cents while I am at it...
The relationship ended when there was an IC reason for it!
(and there are still repercussions to be played out... hopefully... one day...)
That’s one of the things I have noticed with some of the players and their PC's that have been involved in a relationship. Something can happen that would reasonably make your character call the whole thing off, but they STICK TO IT!
...because what the player desires, is the relationship...
NOT the role play.
So even though there should be no reason to continue, (or at least any normal / sane person would dissolve the relationship or at the very least, proceed VERY slowly, and very warily) they kiss and make up in an hour and then go on like nothing rocked the boat.
I don't buy it.
And neither should you.
And that’s all I have to say about that... |
"I'm not closed-minded, you're just WRONG." - Bucky Katt
My characters n portraits |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 10 Jul 2006 02:12 AM |
| *gives a round of standing applause to BKatt* |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 10 Jul 2006 02:21 AM |
I think something that hasn't really been said so far is that, contrary to what some have represented in these forums, I feel that character relationships are not only acceptable, but perfectly realistic. Supposedly, these are people who routinely risk their lives together, who place their lives in each other's hands, who undergo extremely intense experiences together. Under those kinds of circumstances in the real world, it is very natural for people to develop intense relationships.
I can't agree with Katt more, as well - it should all serve the story and the RP, rather than the expediency of the players.
-VK |
"You know, a gong. Large, flat object that you hit when you want things. Sort of like a waiter, but less portable."
-Radra |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 10 Jul 2006 03:57 AM |
Personally, I don't care of PC's have relationships.
What drives me to distraction is logging in with the dm client and being forced to wade through all this "I love you eternally my soul mate" and "does she love me, does she not" angst and "he moves faster and faster in time with her ragged breathing..." (well, you get the hint..but it's actually much worse than that) and all this from characters who were in another "relationship eternal" with three different other PCs in the last month.
ugh. Ugh!
At that point, my two choices are to turn off the dm spy so avoid it (and miss what the other players are doing) or log out.
Vives is Heroic Fantasy, not Harlequin Romances. Yes, they are both fantasies, but really, they are for different groups who get their excitement in different ways.
There have been a number relationships that have been very enjoyable to watch unfold, but they didnt usually involve graphic depictions of the certain aspects of the relationship in public. In fact, they were surprisingly mature and well RP'ed. A good number, however, have not been (in my opinion).
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 10 Jul 2006 05:37 AM |
And to endorse what Paul said, neither do I. What I DO have a problem with, and what stretches my credibility to the limit (and beyond) are as Paul says those who are swearing undying love etc etc for a person one week only to be doing the same with another (or more) a week or, in more than one case I've seen, a few days later - probably less than that.
If you want to argue a case for relationships between characters having a place in an RP environment - and I WOULD argue for it in terms of realism or adding to the RP experience - it can and does, then please remember that the realism you are striving for works both ways.
Yes VK there are instances where people grow together over time through shared experiences/danger, whatever. I agree with what you say.
Unfortunately I don't agree with relationships which fall into the other category and which in my view are totally unrealistic. Please remember that the DMs here are trying to enhance your playing experience, part of the process in doing that is to listen in on conversations, pick up on character traits through the forums etc, it can be incredibly mind numbing, not to say annoying, to sit through hour after hour of this stuff spamming the channel while you are trying to listen in on something else or even dare I say it run something else, and yes it has happened, more than once.
To sum up then, yes if you feel your character is realistically in a position where a relationship is a possibility or probability/whatever, I for one am not going to squash it, if you are intent however on playing out soap opera type drivel then be prepared for the worst, it is a dangerous world out there. |
ELVES! |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 10 Jul 2006 05:51 AM |
Take note, kiddies. List of things that are not fun to watch:
- As PDW said, PCs who swear eternal undying love to another PC... even though they have sworn the same to three other PCs in the past two months.
- Actually, even without the swearing of undying love, watching PCs cycling quickly through relationships as if they were disposable is not fun to watch in any form.
- Also as PDW said, PCs mooning over each other and woefully wondering if the other PC they desire loves them.
- And if not mooning over each other, then doing silly things to impress the object of their affection.
- Smut.
- Melodramatic, excessively oversentimental proclamations worthy of a soap opera... kiddies, Vives is not a soap opera; it's actually possible to RP a mature relationship that doesn't involve any sappy drivel whatsoever.
What is also not fun:
- When you get dragged IG because apparently something important is happening that urgently requires a DM. When in fact there is nothing IG worth DMing and all that is happening is a silly lover's squabble that some PCs want some NPCs to resolve. Believe it or not, I don't appreciate being dragged in for a five hour soap opera session. Take note! This is how not to impress a DM! |
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Re: IG relationships
Posted: 10 Jul 2006 10:42 AM |
| I think we should remember some of our players have never been in a mature relationship. I think if you never had one it would be pretty hard to RP one. Relationships as a teenager or even a young adult (and some most of thier lives) are short lived, high intensity, soap operas. Since a portion of our playing base are these people I can see why some relationships manifest themselfs in this way. I am not saying its right. Just giving my opinion why I think its happening. |
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