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We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 01 Aug 2003 05:20 PM |
HI folks....... Good to see lots of new folks registering upon the Website and seeing a number in game. As we are in Public-Beta We would greatly value some HONEST feedback upon your feelings as re: the game, as without such we cannot improve the Vives experience.
So if you have the time a quick post as to your likes/dislikes would be most grateful (however, please take into consideration we are in beta and not just list a big 'ol bug report and issues with the server etc.... as these are being sorted as I type this)......
Also some suggestions as to how we might improve matters would be of use, but above all, please be honest! If you don't like something them please please say so! We need to know!
examples of likes/dislikes would be: xp system/ areas/ monsters/ quests/ ambience/ custom scripting thingies etc etc.....
Thanks in advance!
Arathon
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Vives Screenshots!
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 01 Aug 2003 05:46 PM |
Hello...
I am brand new to the Vives world. Created my character yesterday and poked around in the world for a few hours. Here are a few of my first impressions:
The opening to the game is wonderfully done. The intro is nice, concise and allows some quick xp. Overall I really like the fact that level 2 can be gained with relative ease. I am nearing level 3 after about 4 hours of playing, and i have the feeling that after this point it will slow down a lot, which is what I would hope for. A true roleplaying server will have very few chars above level 10, and a very select few above level 15. If you see characters starting to advance too quickly I hope you adjust the xp awards slightly to keep this in place. However, I did not like the fact that I got zero xp for killing a number of rats. The diminshing returns idea is a good one, but every kill should garner a bit of xp at least.
The areas i visited were all well constructed and logical. My only complaint is the lack of vendors. I'm not sure if this is yet to be implemented, or if due to the elaborate crafting system you have in place if you want more of a player driven economy. I found it frustrating though that I could not find a vendor to upgrade my armor and dagger just a bit to start the game. I looked all over port royal, buckshire, and the trading post. Did i miss some vendors, because I could only seem to find a gem dealer and the vendor in the starting inn.
I love the rest system. I think it is perfect, and the weight of the logs will keep people from carrying around 20 and resting whenever they please. I still think you could implement a time limit on resting as well, say every 6 or 8 game hours or something, just to keep someone from resting, having a big battle, resting, repeat, etc.
The most important thing, however, in any world is the players and dm's. I have mixed reviews on this. I met 3 players who were good roleplayers and we had a wonderful time doing nothing more than just that: roleplaying. Kudo's to Arthur Pendragon, Jade Night? (cute halfling in a purple dress), Arusus (cleric), and a crazy barbarian bard who did flips and cartwheels and juggled (wonderful roleplaying). During the time we interacted I was awarded a small xp bonus for good roleplaying. That made me feel good that a dm was watching and i see a great potential for future player driven adventures. Unfortunately, I also had the experience of receiving a random tell, more than once, of "Invite". I didn't know the character, he was no where on my screen, and I was instantly brought back to the days of diablo 2, when someone would join a game and spam Party please, party please, over and over. When I finally did encounter the person, he was attacking helpless town npcs. I confronted him, roleplaying, and asked why he was attacking helpless whelps. In a tell, he replied "They are hostile to me". I won't go into all the details, but lets just say he had no ability to roleplay, and made absolutely no attempt to. If these type of people are allowed to inhabit this world, I'll be long gone despite its magnifence in other areas. I seriously think you should have a more elaborate application and screening system before allowing anyone into your world. It is much harder to kick someone out once they are here, than to allow new people in slowly. Simply asking for a 3 to 4 paragraph character background, and answers to questions such as "how long have you played roleplaying games, if any?", "why do you like roleplaying vs. hack and slash, or what intrigues you about roleplaying if you have never done so before?" and "what do you think you can bring to our world should you be accepted?" will go a long way to help determine if someone is a viable and mature community member.
Anyways, I'm sure i'll post more opinions/observances on actual mechanics and structure of the game soon, just need a bit more time in the game. Thanks for all the awesome work you have done putting this together, and I hope it continues to grow in a positive direction!
Pokeundi
elven artist extraordinaire
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 01 Aug 2003 06:29 PM |
PM me the time/date/name...I was on the server earlier (Was the one who gave you the RP Experience :P)...but if you have details, PLEASE PM them to me...thank you, and I can assure you things like this are handled by yours truly through the game, in RP, with the utmost of Joy, we DO want this very much to be an RP server, not a chaotic evil drow fun fest :P
~Fenarisk |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 01 Aug 2003 06:37 PM |
Pokeundi,
Thanks for the detailed feedback. I'm sure Aria and/or Arathon will have other replies, but I just wanted to comment on the areas I've been directly involved with.
As for the resting, there is a time limit between rests. IIRC, it's something around 5 real life minutes.
For the issues about filtering those who are not interested in RPing, yes, we are aware of the issues. To remedy them, we will be adding a registration page (as soon as I get to it) that will require approval. Approval means you will receive the server password. As you well know, this can be acquired via other means, and thus isn't much of a barrier for people to enter Vives and play. The other mechanism we'll be employing to restict access is via CDKey. Those players that have been approved will have their CDKeys added into the database. Upon joining the game, the player's CDKey will be checked against those kept in the database. Those that have not been granted access will be auto-booted. We feel this is a reasonable way to control access to the server.
Thanks again for the feedback.
-Q
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 01 Aug 2003 08:53 PM |
Hi Pokeundi
Many thanks for the great feedback. As Q mentioned the registration will eventually help a great deal with the Quality of RP which up til now has been excellent. So sorry you had to experience the incident you mentioned..... if you PM myself or Fen the details of the player concerned (the in game name will suffice) then we will take steps and have a "chat" with said player......
As re: the Vendors, we have/are creating our own Vendor system, not particularly liking the Std Bioware ones. One of the reasons is to enable them to have persistent inventories across crashes/resets etc amongst other features not available with the std Bioware GUI. We therefore are in a state of flux with them as we sort out coding and eventually get them all back in. Rest assured these are a matter of priority.
Many of us DM's are also busy beavering away in the toolset, and we have some new folks on board learning the "art". There will be an increase in activity as re: DM's in the Coming Weeks.
Once again thanks for the response, we'll be sure to take things on board!
Cheers
Arathon
p.s. the highest lvl char in vives is lvll 16 and that is with somewhere approaching 400 in-game hours and very few deaths. The majority are between 3 and 10 or so. Believe me it gets much much harder to gain levels as you progress, but we will be keeping an eye on how this pans out. |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 02 Aug 2003 10:54 PM |
come along folks! Don't be shy! :P
Also.... check out the links where we posted on vives on other sites, above all be honest! :D
Thx
Arathon
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Vives Screenshots!
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 02 Aug 2003 11:11 PM |
I just started playing Vives this week and am loving every minute of it. I have two suggestions... first and foremost.. I need a packdog to help me carry things around. Oxen are just too big. My character has a 6 strength! Just kidding (not about the strength). My biggest suggestion is to work on getting the library filled with books for those little bookworms out there. Especially books dealing with the CNR... kinda of a recipe book. That way... a player could find out exactly what they needed to do to make that enchanted ring. A second minor suggestion.. and it may be implemented already... but the reseting of quests after a set period of time. I know... it is quite a feat to do with code... but I'm just brainstorming here.
I love the DM involvement and the role playing bonsuses. Most people I've encountered have been helpful and shared information or adventures... except for one.... but I suspect they were just roleplaying their character. *frowns* Evil elf!
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 03 Aug 2003 05:27 AM |
>> When I finally did encounter the person, he was attacking helpless town npcs. I confronted him, roleplaying, and asked why he was attacking helpless whelps. In a tell, he replied "They are hostile to me".
I dont remmember seeing this.. probably was while i was reading =P
If you can send the charname/account, it can be helpfull.. *wicked smile, thinking about torturing -bad- players* =P
I wanted to make a trial and cut someone head off for a long time now.. =P
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You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 03 Aug 2003 06:17 AM |
I'm loving the mod so far... but there is one thing that I feel the place needs. Healing kits and potions. There seems to be a distinct lack of both items throughout Vives. Would it be possible to incorperate them into a small merchant within the infirmary perhaps? Or, if there is already a place where a kit or potion could be obtained, would you be kind enough to be a spoiler and tell me its location?
Thanks |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 03 Aug 2003 08:42 AM |
| ...and what about some plain old arrows at the Bowsmiths place in Minor? Nothing fancy, just plain arrows. Just seems odd that there arn't any normal ones to be found... |
IceFalcon, the "arrowless" Ranger
...and terror of Chicken's everywhere!!! |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 03 Aug 2003 10:24 AM |
Hi folks
I will be updating the server yet again today. This is again primarily focusing on Merchants and also a little tinkering with treasure tables and creature drops.
This will mean there will be more healing kits available in obvious sorts of places, alongside the staple adventuring needs such as arrows.
Cheers
Arathon
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Vives Screenshots!
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 03 Aug 2003 10:30 AM |
Hi all, I've logged about 10-12 hours in Vives, and here's what I've got to say:
First off, I love it! The players are great, and it's wonderful to have DM's around on a consistent basis. 10-12 hours in game, and I've already been involved in 4 DM events!
Anyway, let me provide the *constructive* feedback, which is what you're looking for. Like IceFalcon said, there is a distinct lack to mundane ammunition for ranged weapons. I use a sling, and I've run into the same problem. Secondly, I check most barrels and loot bags that occur in the outdoors (you never know what will be in them), and I've found some truly ridiculous stuff! Yesterday, I found a Scarab of Protection +4 in a barrel! I was 3rd lvl. The Scarab can't be used until 11th, and I had it appraised at almost 3000 gp -- a little excessive to be found in a barrel.
I'm a dwarf, and I've noticed that there are some opportunities to buy low and sell high to dwarven merchants. For instance, Lesser Boots of Tumbling cost me 13gp at the Midor blacksmith, then will sell for 56gp at the dwarven merchant right outside.
Lastly, this morning I found that the Versuci store in Midor didn't have a "counter", so I could buy the kilt I had been saving for! ;-)
Like Pokeundi said, the intro scenes are spectacular -- very dramatic, and the character customization dialogue is ingenious. Also, I don't know how you guys did any of this stuff, but diminishing xp returns on repetitive tasks is great, and well as class based xp award ratios is inspired. In conclusion, keep up the good work, guys! Vives is great!!!
P.S. Thanks to all you DM's who run adventures for us. |
- Raimonds Mountainhand, oldest dwarf you know
"Better ogres than trolls.." |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 03 Aug 2003 10:38 AM |
Hi and thx for the feedback Hurricane!
The treasure tables need working upon which is what I am going to do today. We are moving to a new system which will prevent loot like the +4 thing being found in little barrels. You'll have to work much much harder for items such as that :P
I'll be doing this this afternoon (here in the UK) alongside the merchants, so you looters had best get looting quick hehe!
Cheers
Arathon
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Vives Screenshots!
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 03 Aug 2003 08:51 PM |
Quote Chiron:
I'm loving the mod so far... but there is one thing that I feel the place needs. Healing kits and potions. There seems to be a distinct lack of both items throughout Vives. Would it be possible to incorperate them into a small merchant within the infirmary perhaps? Or, if there is already a place where a kit or potion could be obtained, would you be kind enough to be a spoiler and tell me its location?
Thanks
:End Quote
There are a lot of potions you can buy in the Seven Sisters place. That place is located in Port Royale Outskirts. Its a small place, but shouldnt take too long to find. Once inside, look around a bit and you should find someone who sells all kinds of healing stuffs.
~Rach |
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Seven sisters' potions
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 04:33 AM |
| OH!!! they SELL them too? ;) |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Seven sisters' potions
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 06:16 AM |
| um... I went there and found that they only sold potions of lesser resturation and a potion on anitdote. I couldn't find any healing kits or potions |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 12:03 PM |
[Slight complaint]
Play balance...
When/will there be more balanced play added?
I remember someone saying that new players should try to stick to Minor, and if traveling, stay on the roads. Here are some thoughts on that strategy...
- The thugs in Minor are pretty tough for even a 3rd level Ranger (not to mention without arrows) = Dead
- With very little equipment from the Merchants, and with most of it out of a low level players ability to buy or use, it leaves low level characters really vulnerable = Dead
- I came into another area from hell where there were a bunch of Kobolds with bows just waiting for me to show up = Dead (large groups of Kobolds with bows is best used for humbling high level characters who think their invulnerable.)
- Then there was the marsh encounter where everything in sight attacked the second I entered the area = Dead (but I thank the little Lady in the blue/white dress for bringing me back... and the big dude was really, REALLY funny. Excellent RP'ing!)
- A huge number of encounters are way beyond a mere 3rd level Ranger. Right now I don't even want to talk to any one or go any where for fear of dying again = Dead (might as well be dead due to the paranoia).
- Server/DB crash = Dead (well, sort of anyway)
While I could account all of this to bad luck, it sure seems like it has more to do with play balance.
While finding bugs/problem areas is part of beta testing process, dying allot isn't very fun at all. There sure are allot of areas where a solo PC can't venture into until they are much higher level, which means that they can't provide any feedback on those areas. I realize teaming with other players will help low level characters survive, but with so few players currently running in the game (playing at the same time no less), teaming is not really practical yet.
As a member of the Microsoft Beta Team, I have helped play test several games over the past year. Asheron's Call 2 was the last one I contributed too and it had some major problems in the beta phase related to game balance. Same scenario there as with Vives... your play testers have to have the ability to advance at a reasonable pace, and encounters have to be more dynamically balanced to allow for more playability... hence more exploration and better results with problem/bug discovery and resolution.
Just some thoughts...
DC
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IceFalcon, the "arrowless" Ranger
...and terror of Chicken's everywhere!!! |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 12:44 PM |
| I'll agree on that, slightly. I have the advantage that I'm a rogue...but heck, I got 350-odd experience for disarming a, hmm, DC 38 trap (not difficult with Thieves Tools +10), and well, fighters/barbarians are lucky to get maybe 35 for an enemy they kill. There definitely needs to be some areas where fighters and such can shine that doesn't end up with them dead and losing 5% of their very hard earned EXP. |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 12:49 PM |
>>I got 350-odd experience for disarming a, hmm, DC 38 trap (not difficult with Thieves Tools +10)
Err, maybe i am just dumb and neer tried... but err.. arent thieves tools suposed to be used with lock picking skill?
and well, 350 x is quite a lot, i dont remmember getting so much from traps... but.. you will be able to get i duno.. how much.. but pretty much xp, and then you will get almost nothing, and eventually nothing..
Not to mantion rouges on battle dont survive as long as fighters do...
drat gtg in the middle of the post .. i will continue it later.. =P
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 01:02 PM |
Nice observations on your part ...
QUOTE: The thugs in Minor are pretty tough for even a 3rd level Ranger (not to mention without arrows)
I assume you mean, Midor Docks area? If so, those at least can be "examined" before you engaged them - giving you a choice to leave without a fight.
QUOTE: With very little equipment from the Merchants, and with most of it out of a low level players ability to buy or use, it leaves low level characters really vulnerable.
As one who "excercises" the merchants a lot (to the point of almost annoyance to the creators, hehe), I must say that in Midor you can find a blacksmith for weapons, a bowsmith for bows (but no plain arrows), and a shield vender. What is lacking (and I've been told that they will be soon IG) is
* plain arrows at the Midor bowshop
* Midor armor vendor
* heal kits in Midor (heal kits are much better for RP than potions, IMO)
QUOTE: I came into another area from h*ll where there were a bunch of Kobolds with bows just waiting for me to show up = Dead (large groups of Kobolds with bows is best used for humbling high level characters who think their invulnerable.)
Those flaming arrows do hurt *ouch*.
QUOTE: Then there was the marsh encounter where everything in sight attacked the second I entered the area.
There seems to be a pattern in the lands, which I've mentioned before. Many areas upon entering have the creatures immediately attack you. IMO, this is not good for new players, nor does it enchance RP. You have no chance to view your opponent, nor time to discuss battle plans with with your party members. It tends to force those with magical abilities to walk around all buffed (just in case the next area is hostile), which is silly IMO.
QUOTE: A huge number of encounters are way beyond a mere 3rd level Ranger. Right now I don't even want to talk to any one or go any where for fear of dying again
I do find that the levels 3 and 4 can be challenging, for new players. This is especially true if they are battle-minded; I'm not saying you are, though. Just a tips for these levels, try some of the quests in the game. ;)
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Punchinello Longfello
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Picasso Picante
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 02:17 PM |
Sorry, you're right, it was a DC 38 lock, not a trap (I should have remembered, poor liddle moi died horribly trying to disarm the thing :P)
I've disabled about 5 locks now and each time, I've gotten in the range of 250-350 EXP. My argument is, that this is VERY high compared to what a fighter must to do get his EXP. I can go out and pick a single lock, not particularly lethal - a fighter will have to go and kill a good many nasties to equal that. He'll also probably die horribly and lose 5% of what he's just earned as well :P
So, to sum up...I can go into a single room in Vives and pick 3 DC 38 locks for around 700 EXP and 3 lots of Thieves tools. No risk to my health.
Fighter has to run around several areas, killing nasties, for, maybe, 200-300 EXP. Which dimishes just a little more rapidly than my locks. And it's a hell of a lot more hazardous.
I mean, sure, the fighter has more health than me (I have the infamous level 4 character with 12 HP)...but well, who's gonna level up a lot quicker?
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- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 03:19 PM |
PLaying my character (Woman), I do find this to be a major problem. In most places, I either get less than 10XP for each monster which means I have to kill about 70 of them to match the above 3 DC 38 locks for 700 XP. The only places I can come to match this, where I get 100+XP for each monster, I get cut down by the second or third without having a chance to turn and run.
This means that I have just lost the extra experience I have just earned with the 5% XP loss.
For example... earlier, I walked into an area and earned about 100XP from killing the little monsters that were there with the loss of only 2 HP. I proceeded into the next area whereupon I was killed almost straight away and lost over 200XP.
Just as a personnal note... not meant as a moan:
I understand the need for such a system to punish death, as it enhances the roleplaying by quite a bit and make the players actaully afraid of there character being killed... which is a good thing. But it does mean that the warrior classes (fighter, barbarian, etc...) find it hard to level up because in a battle, those are the classes which get attacked first by the AI in NWN.
Other than that... excellent job on the mod ;) |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 03:33 PM |
Yeah, personally I'd like to see the combat XP go down by 5% per kill, rather than the 10% per kill. And then to balance it, perhaps only about 20% of what you've seen for lock/trap XP.
The only concern then about the combat XP would be people hacking & slashing more... do y'all think if we made the combat XP more lucrative, there'd be more hack & slash?
-Q
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 04:10 PM |
rather than changing the XP... why not try adding more low level creatures or reduce the number of mid-range creatures so that they are killed more easily?
Changing the XP a small amount might work... but change it too much and you'll get all the classes turning to killing for XP
How about even reducing the XP recieved for none battle skills, lock picking for example?
Hack and slash are the trademarks or the warrior classes... but you can't risking making it more profitable for the other classes to be hack and slash. I don't envy the balancing act to get it right |
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Re: We Would Value Some Feedback!
Posted: 04 Aug 2003 04:12 PM |
I absolutely think there would be much more hack/slash if we made the combat XP too high, but so long as it still drops off to 0, it should keep spawn camping to a minimum.
In response to the areas where one gets jumped, I can't think of too awful many of these that are "one-away" from a safe area... I like to think of it this way... don't go more areas away from safety than you have levels. If you are level 2, stick to a 2-area radius around a (major) city, etc. You should be able to get to at least level 3 without lifting a sword in anger at all. In fact, I just did this with my Thursday night char, because we're not supposed to do quests alone.
Better still, Party! you wouldn't just go wandering off into some unknown woods in a strange land on your own now, would you?
Finally, don't be so quick to hit that respawn button... we DMs know we're still testing this place, and a friendly orc or a man in a flowing white robe might come and take pity on you (hiya IF ;P), so long as you don't come begging in irc for it every ten minutes... ;) |
Question Authority! |
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