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An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 02 Jul 2003 03:10 PM |
Hello. First off let me apologize for guinea-pigging you folks on the Talmud-system; while comprehensive in features, its mysterious code significantly utilizes ItemTags and is really ill-suited for a highly customized module like ours. Modification/Debugging turns out to be a messy task; it'd probably be easier to write an entire system on our own. I'm very sorry for having you folks going thru the variety of futile (and frustrating) patches and fixes over the past 2.5 weeks.
So! Here's the deal... what we're having in mind, as compared to the old system. Some are already implemented, some are not; please do take the time to comment on its various aspects.
(1) Interface. Each merchant will consist of (i) a Merchant NPC, and (ii) an associated Store Placeable. Most interactions, both buying and selling, will be done via the Placeable. The current anticipated interactions and what you'd need to do are listed as follows:
- Buying: Drag item from Store Inventory to PC Inventory.
- Estimating Price: In Detect Mode, drag item from Store Inventory to PC Inventory. Elves, being in innate detect mode, can simulate this action by wearing the ScryAmulet.
- Stealing: In Stealth Mode, drag item from Store Inventory to PC Inventory. (n.b. while this is likely to be associated with a small skill-use XP reward, on failure the merchant will call upon guards)
- Selling: Drag from PC Inventory to Store Inventory.
- Estimating Price when selling: In Detect Mode, drag from PC Inventory to Store Inventory.
The actual prices of the transaction will be different than the Estimated Price, depending on Appraisal/Persuade, as well as various factors (as described below). I'm not very sure how we'd want this to happen at this stage, feel free to express yourself. One idea is Appraisal represents how close is the PC's estimate to the 'real' price, and Persuade is utilized in calculating the 'final' result.
(2) Persistency. The inventory of the Merchants will be persistent across resets. I'm debating whether to have / which items should be available in infinite supply; this is likely to be dependent also on the size of our eventual player-base and how much crafting goes on.
(3) Demand-Supply. Merchants will pay incrementingly less for each redundant item. Eventually this may be based not only upon that particular merchant, but on geographical location; with Vives becoming increasingly expansive, and eventual removal of facile direct transport (one idea is that Kusin will be replaced by non-frequent ocean-travel), establishing trade-routes would become a potentially lucrative occupation.
(4) Purchase limitations. Merchants will only accept items
- under certain monetary value
- of certain item type
Each merchant will also have an initial quota that he'd spend (and tries to maximize!)
(5) Biases. Each merchant will come with biases about certain races, gender, dresses, beliefs (both for and against), that is factored in the calculation of the final transaction.
As we'd be constructing this system essentially from scratch, it would be fairly customizable to our particular needs. Feel free to express yourself!
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As an aside, we're also interested in developing a system of Player-Vendors, in which the role of the 'merchant' is simply an agent help conducting transaction between Players. Given the merchants are persistent, what (if any) other advantages would this offer? And how should this be implemented? My personal bias is for something simple... but other than that, I'm conceptually impoverished to decide more :)
Most of these ideas sprang forth from discussions with Q, and Orleron (of Avlis) and playing with Talmud's system.
Arizzle |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 02 Jul 2003 03:34 PM |
[Aria]
(4) Purchase limitations. Merchants will only accept items
- under certain monetary value
- of certain item type
Each merchant will also have an initial quota that he'd spend (and tries to maximize!)
[/Aria]
I'd like to merchants never refuse an item, even if they can't afford it. In stead of refusing those items, why no thave the merchants simply offer whatever is their maximum? I can't imagine any merchants saying "No, that items out of my league", rather I'd see them saying "Well, that's a very nice Foobar you have there, best I can do is 300 gold". Of course, this would only happen if the merchant is in the business of trading in Foobars (items of certain type).
As for the quota, the current one, if I'm not mistaken, is a fixed number of gold. I'd prefer to see the merchant's maximum offer be a percentage of the merchant's gold reserve. So, if the merchant has 1000 gold and his max payout is at 25% then the max he'd be able to pay for anything would be 250 gold. Once the merchant makes more money and has say 10K gold in his reserve, then his max pay out 2500 gold.
My $0.02.
-Q
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 02 Jul 2003 03:48 PM |
Sounds great Aria.. I cant wait to see what your able to do with all this.
The only comment/concern I have at the moment is regarding the ability to steal. I think it is something that should definately be available to theives, but also something that could lead to people trying to exploit it. Some possible limitations could be:
A. Limit what can be stolen based on either size (coins/rings/potions etc.) and/or value (more valuble items would be kept in more secure places). If limiting by value it may make sense to use an increasing DC check rather than just saying anything over xxxgp is unstealable.
B. Increasing DC check based on the amount of times a shop keeper has been stolen from. A shop keeper that notices he is missing a bunch of stock would be on higher alert. Also, a shop keeper that gets robbed daily would be more likely to put higher security measures in place than one that seldom gets robbed.
C. Inline with B. a limit on the amount of times a thief can steal from a merchant in a certain time period. In line with the pickpocket rules from the 3rd Ed. players handbook where a thief can attempt to pick pocket the mark a second time if they succeded the first. They will also face a higher DC on the second attempt (DC 20 vs DC30 for example).
Hope these ideas help.
-Alosynth
Below an exert from the players manual covering the DC's for pickpockt:
Check: A check against DC 10 lets you palm a coin-sized, unattended object. Minor feats of legerdemain, such as making a coin disappear, are also DC 10 unless an observer is determined to note where the item went. When performing this skill under close observation, your skill check is opposed by the observer’s Spot check. The observer’s check doesn’t prevent you from performing the action, just from doing it unnoticed. If you try to take something from another creature, you must make a skill check against DC 20. The opponent makes a Spot check to detect the attempt. The opponent detects the attempt if her check result beats your check result, regardless of whether you got the item.
DC Task
10 Palm a coin-sized object, make a coin disappear
20 Lift a small object from a person
Retry: A second Pick Pocket attempt against the same target, or when being watched by the same observer, has a DC +10 higher than the first skill check if the first check failed or if the attempt was noticed.
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~Alosynth
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 01:55 PM |
Great ideas Alo and Aria!
However there is an age old issue cropping up with the non-GUI merchants we input into the game, in that they pay frankly huge amounts for items. This enables players to accumulate vast sums of cash very quickly (100's of thousands and even millions of GP).
So in my humble opinion we should look at "fixing" this asap, as it will lead to gp becoming worthless. Hopefully, Aria's new merchant system will sort this, but it's an issue we need to keep a close eye on.
Also there are current issues where it is possible to make vast sums of cash by buying items from one merchant then selling them to another (a club bought for 4k then selling for 36k to another merchant). The bartering also seems a tad bugged, with people asking for massive amounts, then the merchants seeming to compensate waaay too much.
In summary, whilst seeming groovy, the current system has all sorts of problems and bugs that will lead to a wrecked economy.
Just a few things we need to bear in mind! :D
Cheers
Arathon
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Vives Screenshots!
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 04 Jul 2003 12:56 AM |
Most of Ara's response seems to be talking about the to-be-replaced-merchant-system... I'll try to comment on it in light of the new experimental system.
However there is an age old issue cropping up with the non-GUI merchants we input into the game, in that they pay frankly huge amounts for items. This enables players to accumulate vast sums of cash very quickly (100's of thousands and even millions of GP).
One of the largest advance in the new merchant system is that they will be limited by a supply of gold, and the supply of gold is persistent. They will only make purchases up to a certain limit, defined by the % of current gold they have. Let me illustrate the scenario...
Billybob-the-Merchant starts out with 2500 goldpieces in his pocket, and Erig-the-Character tries to sell him an expensive engraved dagger of pure gold. He is a cautious merchant and will not buy anything that costs more than 20% of his current funds, so the maximum he'd pay for the dagger is 500 (even tho he know it worths waaay more than that). Let's say Erig bought it - now Billybob will have 2000 goldpiece left (and a 1000gp worth dagger), so now the maximum he'd offer is 400. The most you could possibly squeeze from him is his precious 2500 goldpieces... which would not be easy.
Each merchant will have particular settings, and I'm very excited to let you know the new system will be so detailed, flexible, and realistic that it'd really drive an 'economy'. More follows.
Also there are current issues where it is possible to make vast sums of cash by buying items from one merchant then selling them to another (a club bought for 4k then selling for 36k to another merchant). The bartering also seems a tad bugged, with people asking for massive amounts, then the merchants seeming to compensate waaay too much.
What I'm developing here is not the particularities of a conjuncted system, but the framework upon which the other builders can tweak and customize. The said merchant in the to-be-replaced-system is a hasty addition added in by player-request.
In summary, whilst seeming groovy, the current system has all sorts of problems and bugs that will lead to a wrecked economy.
Yes, and that is why a new framework is being worked on - to provide an efficient, flexible, yet robust system. Let me go onto the current developments that would alleviate the above-mentioned problems, and give you a flavor of the new system:
- Each merchant will have a persistent source of goods, with persistent inventories.
- Each merchant will have particular interests, and for that I mean they might be particularly interested in shortswords but not longswords, or they would be really keen to get a particular magical item ('scroll of stinking cloud' for example... for his own nefarious purposes).
- Each merchant will be working with view of their current inventories, i.e., the first shortsword that he paid 100goldpieces for will only worth 40 when he has 2 in-stock, and 2 goldpieces when he has 5 etc. Analogously he would be selling his 5th shortsword for 10goldpieces just to get it off his hands, whereas the last one he will sell for 150.
- Each merchant will (hopefully! In-progress work) be interacting with the same character differently at different times, as a result of their previous transactions (or non-transactions... vide infra), or just as a matter of their attire.
- Each merchant will interact differently with different characters as a result of their gender/race/etc.
- Characters will be able to steal from each merchant, with accompanying alignment shift, and in case of failure, the merchant will call guards which will jail the offender... each item will always be stealable, but the merchant will be keeping a closer eye on the more valuable items.
One of the primary reason for this undertaking is to make a system easy for the builders. The to-be-replaced-system is simple, yet time consuming to work with (particularly concerning changing from existing bioware GUI to the new one). The experimental version have been designed with this in mind, and adding in/modifying existing merchant should be an exceedingly simple task:
Step 1:
- Create a NPC from scratch and attach 'merc_9_______' to its OnSpawn, or use the done-template.
- Provide a unique Tag for the NPC ('JoeSixPac').
Step 2:
- Paint a 'Persistent Merchant Placeable' from Special -> Custom 5.
- Edit the Placeable's Name to something legible for players, and Tag to the NPC-Tag, preceded by 'MERCHANT_' (e.g., MERCHANT_JoeSixPac)
- Add your inventory... and Voila!
Optional Step 3: Customization
- Open up 'merc_9_________' in script-editor.
- For each attribute you're interested in editing, uncomment by deleting the '//' at the beginning of line, and change the value at the end. e.g., if you're interested in creating a fanatic shuriken-lover, you would. find the line
// mp_MerchantStats.fItemTypeInterest_BASE_ITEM_TYPE_SHURIKEN = 1.0;
, delete the '//', and change the 1.0 to 3.3.
mp_MerchantStats.fItemTypeInterest_BASE_ITEM_TYPE_SHURIKEN = 3.3;
Now this merchant will pay up to 3.3 times the normal price for shurikens, before Redundancy/history/preferences etc. are factored-in.
A well-related point is the General MarkUp-General Markdown, and the Limits of Variation. These denote the bounds within which the merchant operates. E.g., with the default MarkUp of 1.4, and MarkDown of 0.8, a 100-gp item will be sold for 140 gold and bought for 80 gold. Limits of Variation denotes the range upon which the character will be able to sway the price. Default to 0.30, a *very* persuasive player-character will be able to convince him to sell at 110 goldpieces and buy at the same price - the limits of variation should never be more than half the MarkUp-MarkDown.
It was eerie working with the XP-system - individually each component is simple and predictable (e.g., decrement, various sources, or party-weighing), but collectively they generate such complexity that I'd be hard-pressed to predict the outcome. Since the fundamentals are sound, we know the outcome will be fair - but since it's also not immediately predictable, we (or at least I) stop worrying about it and just let my mind dwell on more fun part of the game (role-playing, anyone? ) This is how I'm feeling towards this merchant system now... so darn smart that it's freaky :P
Arizzle. |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 04 Jul 2003 03:26 AM |
This all sounds very nice, but it sounds like just one placeable exists now for each merchant...I kind of liked it where there was a counter and 2-3 boxes of wares, it made sense, though I can imagine how hard it would be on the technical sides.
As usual, most of the problems I see coming into view are the aspect of balancing on this, such as amount of stock, gp given, etc etc
Perhaps trading as well can be implemented? Not sure how hard it would be for a merchant with hardly any gold to say "Ya know that is a nice sword, how bout this nice axe for it?". Otherwise people run around with lots of GP that isn't worth very much either, like 99% of the other mods.
Guess only time will tell :D
~Fenarisk |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 04 Jul 2003 07:22 PM |
Bartering is one of the things I'd like to see, but don't see how it's possible to be implemented. In the to-be-replaced-system, the merchant NPC is an intimate part of the entire transaction; in the new system the Merchant NPC is barely a mouthpiece.
Regarding balancing, again, I'm merely providing a framework upon which others can build. The default settings should be balanced, but when the parameters are customized, it will be the responsibility of the person customizing the system to ensure that the issues are thought out.
As for multiple placeable per NPC, it's certainly one of the possibilities that can be looked at...
-Arizzle- |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 14 Jul 2003 08:15 PM |
After all these time, the merchant system is finally ready to be tested in 0.87. Most of it is rewritten with under-the-hood changes, but one noticeable feature is that whatever items are present within the NPC's inventory will be considered infinite.
This is particularly relevant to DMs - e.g., if you find that oversight leads to a weapon-dealer not having infinite... katanas, you can on-the-fly plop a Katana into the merchant-placeable AND the merchant-NPC. Then the Katana will be given infinite supply (between resets anyway, since the inventory on NPC - unlike the placeable - is not persistent).
Aria. |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 18 Jul 2003 10:13 PM |
Just wondering if there are any updates and we have the merchants working correctly yet?
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Vives Screenshots!
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 24 Jul 2003 10:51 AM |
It seems to be running fine (well, up to expectations) at 0.87d3 onwards. d4 features differential pricing (if you look at the debug lines you'd realize that the shieldsmith pays alot more for shields than Billybob) Other features follow... later, when the basics are tested out fine.
Note to self: Make merchants more robust to handle negative funds should it arises under any circumstances.
Ari. |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 26 Jul 2003 03:22 PM |
Step-by-Step Guide to Setting Up a Fresh Merchant
(1) Create a NPC (jot down his Tag; e.g., Munchkin).
(2) Place the script merc_9_________ in OnSpawn.
(3) Place a Persistent Merchant Template placeable (It's under Placeables -> Custom 5. Modify appearance as needed).
(4) Modify the Tag of the Placeable to MERCHANT_< Tag >, e.g., MERCHANT_Munchkin.
You're good to go!
Step-by-Step Guide to Managing Merchant Inventory
(1) Place the merchandise in the Placeable's Inventory.
(2) For any items that should be sold in infinite quantities, place a copy in the NPC's Inventory as well.
Step-by-Step Guide to Customizing the Merchant Parameters
(1) Open up merc_9________ in Script Editor.
(2) For the parameter you're interested in modifying, uncomment (by deleting the //) and type in value.
(3) Save As another script-name (e.g., merc_9_mdr_Munch)
Aria
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 26 Jul 2003 03:29 PM |
Future Work
(1) Use the character's [Int+Appraise] as a guide to the actual transaction price of the item (as opposed to currently the actual item worth)
(2) Allow builder to customize the Talkings of the merchant, also in same merc_9________ script.
(3) Add in Persuasion usage.
Aria. |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 31 Jul 2003 11:40 AM |
The merchant system is an important part of the world. It is one of the first aspects that a new player will interact with. So it is important that this system leaves a positive first impression for new players, esp. if we wish to keep them here. I recently started a new character and got to experience vives from their perspective.
This module has lots of interesting pieces to it. And the people involved with the creation of this module are fantastic. I would like for this module to be a success. Since we have gone public with this module, first impressions are very important. Because of this and because I care so much for this place, I strongly believe the merchant system urgently needs more tender loving care.
* merchant debug statements - Doesn't give a new player a lot of confidence. However, it did help me understand a problem (more later).
* four winds merchant - The items (rations, bedroll, etc.) I bought from this merchant were free. Not sure if this was intentional (maybe the merchant liked my character?). This wouldn't be such a bad idea to help a player get started, but with the debug statements being displayed, it looks like a bug.
When buying items ...
* no confirmation on price - When I put an item to inventory, the purchase happens immediately with no warning, nor price confirmation. This is extremely harsh for a new character to lose his/her few coins early on.
* appraisal is before markups (interest, race, class, etc.) - I noticed this with the help of the debug statements. Since I was getting no price confirmation on purchases, I had to solely depend on appraisals. As it turns out, the appraisal price can be far different than the actual selling price from the merchant, since the appraisal price is before markups/markdowns. Since there is no confirmation on price before a purchase, this is extremely bad (esp. for new players).
* appraisal should be when? - Now, I can argue a valid case (based on realism) for either side (having the appraisal price be before or after the markups). So other factors become more important like game mechanics and playability. I'm still thinking about this issue, but I didn't want it hold up the rest of this post. As a starting suggestion, perhaps we could display both prices, the fair market value and the merchant's perceived value (after markups/markdowns).
* no haggling - This was one of the unique interesting features that a new player would first encounter in the world. It makes the merchant system come alive, IMO.
I've yet to significantly test out the selling process (from a character's perspective).
I noticed that the armor merchant and the jewelry merchant are gone now (or maybe they moved and I didn't find them). However, finding armor laying on the ground leads me to think they aren't IG anymore. I hope they get put back in; otherwise, I'll probably be finding more discarded armor on the ground.
P.S. Last moment thought ... maybe the initial price offered by the merchant is marked down according to the character's appraise skill. And the change in price due to haggling is affected by the persuade skill?
*looks at previous post* BTW, the appraise skill is already affected by INT.
FYI, and the persuade is affected by charisma.
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Punchinello Longfello
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 31 Jul 2003 12:28 PM |
Will do. An observation briefly last night is that the merchant system, for some reason, seem to have had rolled a couple versions back (when the initialization parts isn't linked up; hence everything is zeroed by default). I'm suspecting the scripts are overwritten somewhere somehow thru imports etc.. In any case I'll fix up the stuffs you've mentioned when I get back home tonight. Can I reserve the Master then?
(I'm using the terminology [IntMod+Appraise] because I think GetSkillRank as a scripting function returns only the skill rank of the character without addition of modifiers. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 31 Jul 2003 01:05 PM |
Sorry to hear about losing the newer scripts. Good luck on fixing them and finding the culprit responsible for altering your hard work. ... hmmm ... When you find out who, I've got a pail full of milk ready to throw on them, hehe, from my cow ;-).
If the scripting function only returns the rank, then you might need to add effects from items in addition to INT. There are items IG that give appraise bonuses. *looks around innocently* I suspect some divine intervention put that item in a merchant's inventory. I bought it, thinking I'll find it very useful in testing out the merchant system as it evolves.
This is probably true for other skills too.
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 01 Aug 2003 04:44 PM |
Latebreaking news...
- Stacked item treatments fixed (should regenerate 99 arrows after you bought it... not one)
- Pricing is affected by Persuade Skill.
- Appraisal is after markup / variety of Factorings (above Persuade inclusive). Specifically, the price of the appraisal depends on the Appraisal skill; the higher it is, the closer the appraised price to the actual price. Maximum variation is ~30% either way.
- Debug Messages suppressed for players; will show only for DMs.
Finally re: haggling - if you're having in mind the haggling of the old merchant system (via convo), that is unlikely to be added in. This is due to the way the current system is structured (most things are Placeable-based instead of NPC-based, for simplicity of adding in new merchants and sleeker interface); the decision was made when no one was using the haggling system of the old system...
Keep the feedback coming (Aria needs nudges )
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 01 Aug 2003 05:02 PM |
Great work! ... I will have to exercise the new system when I can get a chance Thanks Arizzle :D
Not sure if this should be a separate thread ...
Heal Kits
I've noticed heal kits are no longer available from merchants. With my newest character, I've already seen several people slowly die, without the means to help them . I feel that the heal kits in conjunction with the bleeding rules do encourage party RPing.
I hope that the heal kits make a come back. Otherwise, we'll just see selfish adventurers chugging potions for themselves; I did find many potions for healing wounds.
P.S. Hopefully, this won't get lost by the one-line-spam-god.
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Punchinello Longfello
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 01 Aug 2003 05:11 PM |
I personally added in merchant who sells Heal Kits in a new area...... not saying where though :D
oh He also sells some other "interesting" items :P |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 01 Aug 2003 05:38 PM |
| I believe there's healkits available from several places already (in addition to the ones Ara has...) |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 30 Aug 2003 09:43 AM |
observations.
(1) i note that the prices of items at merchants appear to be based on the acquisition cost for that merchant and that item. i feel this to be a problem, for this reason: this world is going to be overwhelmed by crafters, of all kinds. they are going to make stuff and mainly sell it to merchants, flooding the inventories...**and** depressing the selling price of all the crafted goods.
i agree with the declining-buy-price system as regards PC's selling items to merchants. however, the merchants are then turning around and selling the items bought at a low price, based on their acquisition cost of that item, or so it appears.
hence, the market price of crafted items at a merchant goes through the floor...and crafters have no incentive to trade with other PC's, as the merchants are undercutting whatever price the crafter may wish to ask. as the number of crafters in the campaign world increases, the merchants are sure eventually to be always clogged with crafted items in their inventories.
i would suggest that NPC merchants *sell* items at "list price" no matter what it cost them to buy the item. this will support intercharacter trade, which i assume is a goal of the campaign world.
you may need to make "list prices" fluctuate also, based on some supply/demand model....but the current system destroys any monetary incentive on the part of a player to be a supplier to other PC's..
(2) another drawback of the current system (which i have no idea how to solve) is that it will in the end encourage camping the merchants that have the highest initial buy price for the items a particular crafter makes.....after each server reset, the PC's will storm the merchant, reclogging the inventory near instantaneously. |
But long ago he rode away
And where he dwelleth none can say |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 30 Aug 2003 12:08 PM |
(2) another drawback of the current system (which i have no idea how to solve) is that it will in the end encourage camping the merchants that have the highest initial buy price for the items a particular crafter makes.....after each server reset, the PC's will storm the merchant, reclogging the inventory near instantaneously.
I can tell you that the DMs will deal with this particular behavior pretty harshly, when they see it. The closer we get to full public, the gloves are coming off... with this and other behaviors which are unacceptable. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 30 Aug 2003 02:06 PM |
(2) another drawback of the current system (which i have no idea how to solve) is that it will in the end encourage camping the merchants that have the highest initial buy price for the items a particular crafter makes.....after each server reset, the PC's will storm the merchant, reclogging the inventory near instantaneously.
The merchant's inventories are persistent. I don't understand how would they be affected by server resets at all?
As for selling at list price, it's certainly a very simple thing to implement - but I fear that soon after we make the change, there'll be complaints of 'unrealism'. What does everyone else think about this?
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 30 Aug 2003 02:42 PM |
I think the prices are good as they are..
I also think 'crafted' goods should be sold for almost nothing so ppl will prefer selling to other pcs..
and wont make tons of gold cuz they made tons of items..
and if you wanna buy it from a marchent you will pay more than most crafters will take.. so it will be much cheaper to talk to the crafter.. which will encourage a player driven economy and trading....
and beside.. crafters want their items to be worth much.. if they will be at the stores... and ppl will buy them.. these items will worth less.. so I guess not selling it to the stores will keep the value higher..
for example.. at LoL... most bow crafters I saw only sold short complexed bows.. cuz they needed money.. but didnt make the bigger ones.. cuz then when someone wanted to get a long complex bow.. he couldnt buy it from the store.. and bought that for tons of gold from the crafter..
of course here the amounts will be more realistic.. but i guess ppl uderstand the idea...
so the prices will depend on crafters' acts and maybe will open guilds? so each crafter guild will have it's own rules and ethus? can be really really neat..
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 30 Aug 2003 06:04 PM |
"The merchant's inventories are persistent. I don't understand how would they be affected by server resets at all? "
um...the buying price appears at a certain point to become independent of inventory quantities, or so it seems. it *is* dependent on how much of a particular merchant's "spending money" he has already spent that day....and the spending money gets reset to max at server reset, or seems to.
hence, just after server reset, i can get a "normal" price selling a crafted item to that merchant...and on each subsequent unit bought, the price the merchant pays me declines...until
it hits a "bottom" at which the price does not decline further. this condition persists until reset. then price offered goes back up, and declines again with further sales.
at least, this is the behaviour i have observed.
if i have it right....the "maximum gain" course for a powergamer crafter would be to wait until reset, sell items to the best paying merchant for that particular item until his price bottoms...go to next best merchant, sell until that merchant bottoms...rinse and repeat until you exhaust the merchants. the first PC to hit the merchant gets the best price...all others get the "bottom" price. so there is a strong incentive to be first in line....
that is why i think at least some PC's will camp the merchants waiting for reset. |
But long ago he rode away
And where he dwelleth none can say |
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Re: An Update on Merchants, and Player Vendor Extensions.
Posted: 30 Aug 2003 11:29 PM |
hence, just after server reset, i can get a "normal" price selling a crafted item to that merchant...and on each subsequent unit bought, the price the merchant pays me declines...until it hits a "bottom" at which the price does not decline further. this condition persists until reset. then price offered goes back up, and declines again with further sales.
I'm not aware of this phenomenon... can someone else confirm, preferably with actual numbers to help me trace down the problem?
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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