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Sub-races
Posted: 10 Oct 2004 12:53 PM |
| Not a complaint at all! Just wondered if there is any plans to introduce sub-races at anytime on this server? Not that I have a problem with just playing the normal ones, and not that i'm going to make another character yet (like playing Kitty too much hehe) |
Kitty... Orphaned child turned house burglar
When is a croquet mallet like a billy club? I'll tell you; whenever you want it to be."
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 11 Oct 2004 07:36 AM |
The DMs have ummed and ahhed about these a few times.
The result being that we tended to disagree with which ones should and shouldn't be included due to Vives background etc.
We will try to revive this again and come to a decision sometime this milennia .
- Solitaire (the Dreamer) |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 13 Oct 2004 09:43 PM |
I've always loved subraces, however..
I've always hated the rules behind them. When I play a subrace, I do it for one reason: Roleplay.
It would be nice to see a list of stuff we have the option of playing, but I've always been strongly against adding in actual subrace templates.
Just my thoughts. : ) |
Shard Aerinmane - Spellsword
Avion Bladesaint - Pugilist
Vincent Lawful - Adventurer
"One Color ~ Countless Shades" |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 13 Oct 2004 09:52 PM |
For example:
The previous server I played on.. when I first started it, I picked up playing a character named Gaberiel. He was an Aasimar cleric. Had alot of fun with him. Being a cleric of Law, his biggest enemy was a priestess of Chaos(drow, no less). It was great and all, up until the mod owner decided he wanted to add in stats and ECLs to each subrace. Totally ruined the subrace experience in that mod.
Prior to that, played a Tiefling monk. And some of the coolest characters I've ever met have been some really strange stuff. In fact, one of the most well roleplayed characters I've met was a Ghost character.
But, even the more common stuff are alot of fun to see. Kobolds, pure Orcs, Hobgoblins, the various dwarf, elf, or halfling subraces, etc.
A certain musical kobold comes to mind. :) |
Shard Aerinmane - Spellsword
Avion Bladesaint - Pugilist
Vincent Lawful - Adventurer
"One Color ~ Countless Shades" |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 03:26 AM |
Well we don't have a list of subraces that are and aren't allowed, that's why we have to say it's DM permission only.
We don't have planes here as they are known in Forgotten Realms, so any planar sub-race would probably not be allowed, unless it fitted in with Vives.
We also don't have drow, so again now drow allowed.
But if you have any other ideas just ask !
- Sol |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 03:27 AM |
It would be nice to see a list of stuff we have the option of playing, but I've always been strongly against adding in actual subrace templates.
I for one won't see subraces without the correct templates et cetera. Yes, the primary purpose of a subrace is roleplay- but the races also have strengths AND weaknesses which have to be put in, otherwise it becomes OOC and daft.
Vampires have to die in sunlight, if they're put in a river, or if they're staked. If we had a Vampire PC who this didn't happen to, it'd be daft, right?
Tieflings are uncharismatic. That's just a fact, and has to be represented.
Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
-Barnas |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 03:48 AM |
Right before I started playing in Vives, the Character I was playing on another server was a Daimon Clone of about half his height. ... and Half his level. I Played a goblin War commander named "Skullshred Swamprat" And Played an intelligent, and Deadly Goblin War strategiest and weapon smith... he planned and organized sieges and skirmishes on the human kind... and it was pretty cool. Also.. it was the only time I've ever played a Villain.. and Journeying through a whole world like vives... almost entirely underground in Dungeons was a VERY interesting experience... Going to the surface was almost sure death.. cause.. you know.. there were PC's up there that would kill you on sight.
The Dm's Even scripted a little wand for me when I got higher in level (And my PC goblin brethen stopped playing) that allowed me to spawn small goblin war parties once a day... I thought that was pretty freaking cool.
Oh.. and since he was a Weaponmaster.. like Daimon... I was going to go Rapier.. but decided right before I Prestiged to go Battle Axe... because I was a miner.. and it was two handed... and since all the humans had to swing a pickaxe with 1 hand.. and since I was a Pick Axe Master... I suddenly became the fastest miner on the server... matter of fact, I got my own little PC goblin train of Ore carriers going down into the bowels of our Goblin base... and dropping all the stuff at the smithy, and got this huge LOTR feeling. It was pretty cool.
And the Whirlwind animation actually freaking worked.. so it looked awesome.. since I was a buffed out little green midget with a huge axe and Robes. (Always wore plain brown robes over my chainmail, a trend that Daimon didn't really catch at all)) |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 04:50 AM |
While the idea of various subraces may sound fun, I myself am strongly against it.
It's all nice when you got one or two strange characters walking around, but it's another having a freak show in the server. Might give you unique characters, which may be fun to play, but it also creates a very strange world.
Having a drow walking around, and a fiend, an two celestial,s and a friendly orc, and three hobgoblins, and whatever else. Thats what I consider a very strange RP-environment, in fact, I would consider such server as generally bad.
It's nice to have a small, very small, tiny number of unique characters. However, having unique characters walking all over kinda ruins the whole "unique" thing, not to speak of a real RP environment.
I prefere servers to stay with the normal races, especially Vives. Giving only a selected number of players such unique characters, such as goblins or whatever, may be fun, but it will also be unfair towards others who would like to play such races. Giving everyone this ability will just turn Vives into a freak show, much like other servers I knew and left partially because of it.
If I actually saw my character travelling around with a group mostly built from various strange creatures, that would totally ruin the fun part for me. I've seen other servers like it, and even with good RPers standing behind various odd characters, the general feeling of it makes it look like I'm playing in a circus. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 04:56 AM |
That's why it is DM permission only. And one of the reasons why RDD's are also DM permission. Vives wont become overpopulated with such...but DM permission might be given occassionally.
Cheers,
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 06:15 AM |
There was that time.. when there were quite a number of those Red Scaled freaks... Daimon was thinking of rounding them up and touring them acrossed Vives...Making lots of money off of their wings.. and fiery sneezes
*Ducks Naruth's Smiting* |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 06:16 AM |
Any toyme ya wantz ta troyz it elfy
*grins* |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 06:20 AM |
*Uses his smithing prowess to make several Torn Heart replicas, paints them with juicy looking acrylic glossy red paints... and sets them carefully in a large pile on the inside of the Caged car of his new Steam motive Steel Rail driven car puller.*
*stakes a sign* "Free 'Eartz Forz Mugaz"*on the outside of the Admanatium Cage* |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 06:22 AM |
| Getting a Massive Loony Toons Moment here..... Getting a Little Off topic.... |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 06:23 AM |
And let me guess...a pile of fake gold for Soapie and a...new dress for Ilyana!?
*grins*
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 08:56 AM |
You lot are barking mad.
As for overpopulation of such and such, with classes I always liked the idea of having to have a certain Stat etc but thats out the window with a Points Buy scheme. Also with races, seems to me you'd need a pretty good RP reason for playing a wemic or Vampire.
I do like the sound of your Goblin though Veran. So you say he was a Daimon clone. You do realise clone's look a like. But then again........
As for Barnas' comments couldnt agree more. A sub-race without sub-racial traits is pointless. But your Vampiric knowledge is shameful!!!! *hee hee*
Anyway, by the way, with the examples used havent people missed the point. These are sub-races. That is a breed of an existing race, such as wood elf, or stone dwarf etc.
Vampire, Goblins etc etc are just unique races in themselves. Well actually thats not true of Vampire's. They arent a race at all, but merely an inflicted desease upon which ever race they have been affected by, much like Lycanthropy. But thats a whole different debate.
I have a really sore throat today and it kept me up all last night. Its really not very nice. Just in case any of you care!!!! |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 09:37 AM |
| Daimon is really a goblin? *blinks* |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 10:23 AM |
| Aw..sorry to hear about your sore throat Akril. Take care of yourself. |
Shalee Windwalker.....wife of Chandler, Ranger, Cleric of Elbereth
Alianda - Change can happen.
Lara - half-elven Ranger, trying to reshape her life
Tia - Cleric of Vilyave
"Delicious Ambiguity" |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 10:50 AM |
Daimon is really a goblin? *blinks*
That's one cute goblin.
Umm. Ahem.
I'd personally prefer no additional sub-races/non-traditional races be implemented. I fear everyone would rush to create one and there would be a flood and it would be very silly. I like that there are a few odd, extraordinary characters (like Shaz'Jen and the little spazzy winged dude), because it adds depth and richness and such, but much more would take away from the overall feel of the world. All IMHO, of course. |
Consequences
Unsent
It's hard to say it, time to say it...
Goodbye, goodbye |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 03:08 PM |
| *shrugs* I'm very much with Grey on this - I'm happy to merely RP a race and don't honestly need the sub-race characteristics to be implemented. I just...get on with it :p |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 08:02 PM |
"Vampire, Goblins etc etc are just unique races in themselves."
This is my point. Subraces, not entirely new races.
For instance. Demon rapes lady. Lady gets pregnant. Half-demon is born. That half-demon has kids of his own(with non-demon), and from then on.. it's tieflings, as the demon blood is slowly bred out. "Planetouched" is merely a saying used because demons and angels are "Planar" creatures. In Vives, there are no planes.. so, they aren't "planar" creatures.. and the creatures generated from this aren't "planetouched". But, this would still be a subrace template.
Now, a vampire is NOT a subrace template. It's a curse. Lycanthropy.. USUALLY isn't a subrace, it's a disease(for most, although born lycanthropes are subraces).
The point is simple. As soon as you add actual stats along with it, half the server will flock to being a subrace. That's how it works, and it never fails. I play subraces when there AREN'T any stats, and I roleplay the weaknesses. But, to say that "all tieflings are uncharismatic" is just amusing. Not all dwarfs are ugly, not all half-orcs are stupid, not all elves are quick. On *average*, they aren't charismatic.. due to the fact that they are usually social outcasts growing up, which leaves them unable to properly express themselves, etc etc. |
Shard Aerinmane - Spellsword
Avion Bladesaint - Pugilist
Vincent Lawful - Adventurer
"One Color ~ Countless Shades" |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 14 Oct 2004 08:09 PM |
Although, I don't mind seeing entirely different races, either. SO long as they're within a certain limit.
Before the expansion, some servers had "Half Dragons" in them. That's annoying. Usually played by people who just wanted that lovely +8 str bonus and various immunities.
Yah. Right.
Vampires would be obscenely difficult to add in.. for obvious reasons.
The reason I use planetouched as an example is simple: Their abilities aren't so massive that you would miss them if they weren't there. A half-dragon with no template is obvious. The Aasimar character I played on my old server, however, was not.
Gold hair, fairer skin, slightly more charismatic. Simple. Like playing a human cleric, except with a small twist. |
Shard Aerinmane - Spellsword
Avion Bladesaint - Pugilist
Vincent Lawful - Adventurer
"One Color ~ Countless Shades" |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 15 Oct 2004 06:30 AM |
But, to say that "all tieflings are uncharismatic" is just amusing. Not all dwarfs are ugly, not all half-orcs are stupid, not all elves are quick.
I dont think it was a superlative comment, but if you are going to play a sub-race to get the bonuses or even just to play the sub-race there would have to be really really dang good reason why you pick a sub-race and then RP them with characteristics untypified of that species.
So I think the point Barnas was making is a very valid one. If your going to play a tiefling (hypothetically) then excusion some exceptional reason you play them as 99.99% of that race would be played. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 15 Oct 2004 06:50 AM |
Aw..sorry to hear about your sore throat Akril. Take care of yourself.
And thank you Shanara that was very kind of you. Im glad someone cares!!! |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 15 Oct 2004 12:00 PM |
*cough* As someone who's caused havoc with subraces from ever since she started playing on Vives I kinda have to put my oar in on the sticking to stereotypes thing. As in, why should people? Why, just because they're a more unusual race/sub-race, have to suddenly play things to the stereotype? We don't ask people of the normal PHB races to stick to stereotypes e.g. we don't get shirty with elves who don't spend 90% of their time tree-hugging, or penalise dwarves who dare venture outside of their clan. In fact, if I remember, it's greatly frowned upon in dwarven society to go adventuring and put the self before the clan. In that respect, all dwarven adventurers in Vives are all non-stereoptypicalShould the DM's start enforcing that all characters stick to their steteotype? Do we start docking XP from halfings who don't wander the world, from half-orcs that aren't barbaric in nature, from elves that refuse to get huggy with nature? I'd say absolutely not.
Now, yes, I understand that there has to have been a substantial proportion of a race that conforms to the stereotype for the stereotype to have been created. But what you have to remember is that adventures - i.e, your characters - are ATYPICAL in the first place. They're already breaking stereotypes because they're adventuring and they have their own unique personalities. Yes, you would expect your average half-fiend to be a evil baby-eating virgin-sacrificing walking blasphemy. But characters are not meant to be average, IMO. I'm not putting in 1000+ of my time to play Joe Average. I'm putting in those hours to play Jack Awesome.
Therefore, I am going to continue to play my good demons, evil celestials, and crazy butterfly winged tree folk :] |
- Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows? |
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Re: Sub-races
Posted: 15 Oct 2004 12:23 PM |
we don't get shirty with elves who don't spend 90% of their time tree-hugging
I do. ;)
-Barnas |
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