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Travellers Warning
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 09:50 AM |
*a note posted in Midor, Port Royale and Buckshire*
Travellers beware. It appears that a new band of Ettins have moved into the bloodwood. These Ettins are far stronger than the previous tribe even though to the unexperienced eye they look the same.
Great caution is advised before entering the woods. Already a number of experienced travellers have met their untimely end on that road.
*the message is unsigned* |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 12:06 PM |
| ((Ah, you've come across some of the modified monsters Narenia has been implementing. Of note, though they are perhaps a bit stronger, they no longer have impossibly high spot, concentration, or discipline. This is part of a very large project Narenia is diligently working on to remove any impossibly high skill rank's or extraordinary amounts of feats (who would want more than two feets anyways) from NPC's allowing a greater use of tactics beyond point, click, and pray)) |
~Alosynth
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 12:19 PM |
((Yep. Narenia good. Me likee! Please remember to thank her when you see her, because she's been working very hard to implement our ideas! Monsters are now being modified to match the Monster Manuals, so think before you decide to just walk up to one and try to smack it around. )) |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 12:23 PM |
[Bounty Posted at Buckshire and Brandybuck]
Wanted:
Private collector of exotic examples of arms and armaments will pay fair price for authentic examples of the hand weapons now used by the Ettin tribe of the Bloodwood.
Direct inquiries to K. Bloh for appraisals. |
-æsir
"The man that finds himself at a crossroads, and unsure of direction, is not lost. For in truth, all roads will carry him to the same destination - his fate. But it is the determined man that takes the next step." -Aren
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 12:38 PM |
[Posted in several south and western towns around the land]
Volunteer services for escort through the Bloodwood and outlying regions offered by the Rangers of Latonei.
[Marked with an R, encircled in black] |
-æsir
"The man that finds himself at a crossroads, and unsure of direction, is not lost. For in truth, all roads will carry him to the same destination - his fate. But it is the determined man that takes the next step." -Aren
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 12:50 PM |
((Yep. Narenia good. Me likee! Please remember to thank her when you see her, because she's been working very hard to implement our ideas! Monsters are now being modified to match the Monster Manuals, so think before you decide to just walk up to one and try to smack it around.))
Ive certainly noticed some really good changes. One thing I was wondering (and given the magnanimity of the work already done, this is more of a distand wish - and perhaps one I will later regret) but is it possible to make some of the monsters more intelligent.
I mean, giants that are low in the Firkrag crevice might not be able to reach us from where they are but they wouldnt stand then while we shot them to death.
Also, (a minor quibble with the game engine) if I have line of sight to fire an arrow, why do I not have line of sight to cast a spell? |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 01:50 PM |
((oh yes. Its just a reminder to never take anything for granted. Ever. Luther hasn't been smacked around that badly by ettins in almost 20 levels
Thanks Narenia
- Paul))
*edit - the tone may have sounded sarcastic, but it was not meant in that way at all. I am enjoying the surprises. In fact I just found another one.* |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 02:24 PM |
this warning has come at least a day late as i have found to my great anoyance , a normally hard fight for my character turned into a 3 hits and i was dead wandering what the hell happened situation.
As it happened i was with Daimon who suffered the same fate 30 secs later..
I dont think any DMs were on at the time (2am GMT) so i just lay there stupified. |
If you catch a butterfly.
You can either keep it and watch it die.
Or let it go and watch it fly away.
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 02:44 PM |
| ((ooc: Reminder this is in the ROleplay forums, lets try to keep it as suchor perhaps move it )) |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 11:20 AM |
| These little surprises really should be announced in the forums. It's not really fair to lose levels to something that's masqarading as something weaker than it actually is. Realistically speaking experienced adventurers would immediately notice a difference in the ettin's behaviour or physique that would alert them to the danger. Instead as players we think... oh.. lucky dang ettin, just got three crits in a row on me... |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 12:02 PM |
These little surprises really should be announced in the forums. It's not really fair to lose levels to something that's masqarading as something weaker than it actually is. Realistically speaking experienced adventurers would immediately notice a difference in the ettin's behaviour or physique that would alert them to the danger. Instead as players we think... oh.. lucky dang ettin, just got three crits in a row on me...
Frankly, I couldn't disagree with you more. Players are getting killed and losing levels because they are playing carelessly. To that I say, You deserve what you get. Stop taking the world for granted. It's very frustrating to hear somebody say "but that creature is not supposed to be there!" or "This ettin now does this (which BTW is part of their abilities according to the MM) and they never did that before!"
We reserve the right to mix things up a little every now and then. To me, it seems stupid to come out and say "Oh, by the way, some monsters will not behave as you expect them to behave, so be careful!" This is not some chess board where all the pieces start in the same places, and always do the same things. It's one of the features which I believe makes a good persistent world.
Don't take the world and its inhabitants for granted, and you won't get your a$ handed to you. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 02:24 PM |
| Mixing things up a bit is all good and fun, a little change is good now an then. I would however say that if for example Freedom no longer works against certain spells (as in allowing the PC to be paralyzed/knockeddown regardless) thanks to a change thats being made behind closed doors, that is something that should be made known to the players. Making monsters tougher is fine and good, no problems with that here.. I just hope there arent any CR35 rats running around anyplace.. |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 04:23 PM |
Making monsters tougher is fine and good, no problems with that here.. I just hope there arent any CR35 rats running around anyplace..
The monsters arn't being made tougher. They're being balanced- I imagine for a rogue the new Ettins will be much easier since they lack 250 spot. ;)
-Barnas |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 08:02 PM |
| ((Every single monster I've touched has had their CR go down as a result of my editing. I do not at all intend to imply that this suddenly made the creatures easier, just showing how LESS stats/feats/magics, when applied correctly per the well balanced, well designed rules of PnP, can actually make for a far more dangerous encounter. I haven't raised a single HD, AC, STR, or increased the damage/properties of a single creature item. Not one.)) |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 10:22 PM |
| Sounds good :P |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 11 Jul 2004 09:54 AM |
| You're too idealistic Landru. You're not seeing the bigger picture. Vives is a game, players spend considerable time and effort playing their characters and having them go up levels. Hopfully they're having fun while doing so, but there is a definate reward and sense of achievement in having your character go up a level. Losing that level to something that you have no way of predicting feels unfair to the player and will only cause resentment in the player. |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 11 Jul 2004 09:59 AM |
I completely disagree.
The world staying exactly the same is boring. Where's the adventure or excitement in a static world?
If common sense and tactics are used, rather than an attitude of This critter can't hurt me, so I'll be lazy you'll come out on top, unless you're fighting out of your league.
However, complatency breeds incompetance. If your character gets lazy, they'd eventually get caught off guard by a creature. So what's so wrong with these changes?
Prepare properly for battle and don't assume it will always be the same and these changes will never hurt you. If, however, you fight half heartedly against most opponents, these changes will be much more dangerous.
Or, of course, we can just leave in monsters with 250 spot and 88 discipline? I'm sure that will be a fairer setup- as long as they always stay in the right place, of course.
-Barnas |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 11 Jul 2004 10:16 AM |
I'm not saying don't change creatures, I'm saying there should be some warning that it's happening.
I was walking through the Great Plains recently. Being a nice safe area where people hang out, I was strolling along on about 30% health about to rest when two ninjas came out of hiding right next to me and killed me before I could even get my hands onto the mouse and keyboard, (I was talking on the phone at the time). Saying we should be walking around Vives in a perpetual state of combat readiness reguardless of where we are is rediculous.
It's a flaw of game mechanics that we can have no way of combatting. |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 11 Jul 2004 10:52 AM |
I think there's some room for negotiating between the two extremes re: the monster redefinitions.
The announcement does not need (and, I agree, should not be) detailed such that 'secrets' are given away. I feel the perfect announcement would have been:
"We're working on bringing the 'monsters' inline with PnP Monster Manual specifications. This work will begin to appear in the live module in approximately [x] days, and is expected to take [x] weeks/months to complete."
And that's it.
This is more in the spirit of announcing that a game subsystem is changing, and provides a positive message about major new initiatives from the Vives' team - without giving away specific secrets about the abilities/atttributes to the players.
I think this meets preferences from both players and DMs regarding the change announcements.
Conversely, for subsystems that are inherent to PC mechanics and for changes to subsystems that one would expect to be detailed in a PHB (as a guideline), more detailed and specific information should be provided. Examples of such would be changes to spells, UMD, Spellcraft, Woodcraft, changes to multi-classing requirements, rules about Paladins only being allowed for Midoran, etc. (this has all been done, of course).
[Edited: I wanted to add that I'm excited by the prospect that another subsystem of Vives is moving towards alignment with the PnP rules. While it is hard to ask that the entire PnP rules be converted to NWN/Vives - it is another step towards that, and I think that is good. One thing at a time, as they say.] |
-æsir
"The man that finds himself at a crossroads, and unsure of direction, is not lost. For in truth, all roads will carry him to the same destination - his fate. But it is the determined man that takes the next step." -Aren
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 11 Jul 2004 10:58 AM |
| Exactly, well said Aesir. That suggestion was all I was asking for. I've probably come across more zealously than I intended. |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 11 Jul 2004 03:13 PM |
(Hopefully some kind soul can edit these togther for me again. :D)
The players have no right, nor any reasonable expectation, to insider knowledge about the strength, placement, type, or tactics of monsters. Ever.
If this were PnP, hypothetically, do you honestly believe that a DM would ever say, "oh hey, just so you know, I may have decided to use a different monster than usual in a dungeon," or, "now guys, I've decided to give this paticular encounter a special weapon because I've got a really awesome backstory in mind that you won't find out about for several more play sessions, so you be sure to actually be careful this time instead of throwing the dice at the table from the other room while you grab a soda because you're conviced that a goblin can't hurt you and you don't have to care"? |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 11 Jul 2004 03:13 PM |
That would never happen, nor should it. The very fact that you believe you need a warning when the mechanics of a given monster change tells me that the players of Vives have become WAY too complacent in how they view the world.
If a new monster spawns in an area, or a give monster's tactics or stats change, that means the DM's are trying to suprise you. That is exactly what we are doing, we are trying to suprise you. So that you stop looking at an ettin and doing the math in your head for the attack rolls and the exp. So that you see a goblin and think, "is this goblin tougher than what I'm used to? Weaker? Will it have a dirty trick up its sleeve?" |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 11 Jul 2004 03:13 PM |
Sure, leveling up is fun. But it is the opinion of the team and hopefully players of Vives that roleplay is MORE fun, and part of roleplay is living through the mind of your character be you talking or fighting. If you go into a fight with your teeth on edge and holding your breath, then IMO the team has done its job in making the world MORE believable and MORE fun.
~ Figleaf |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 11 Jul 2004 07:41 PM |
Missed the point Figleaf. I don't WANT to know about plot changes. I don't WANT the story to be spoiled for me. But if ettins have 280 spot and it gets reduced to 20 or whatever, and their combat prowess rises a few notches universally with no RP reason, then it'd be nice to know.
Just having a universal statement that the monsters will be changing over the next few weeks to align them with PnP rules would be adequate to put players on their guard. Obvious bug fixes like the ettin's spot it would be nice to know the details of because it might answer a few niggling questions the player base had about certain creatures.
I actually thought Ettins had increased spot because they've got two heads. I didn't realise it was up at 280 though. Knowing about these things helps us identify other bugs in the game. |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
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Re: Travellers Warning
Posted: 12 Jul 2004 03:15 PM |
| (( I think the way Paul let everybody know is just about as good as any, let the players find out, whether the hard way or not, and let them pass the word on. .02 )) |
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