| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Display using:
|
|
UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 11:14 AM |
First of all I would like to say that this is all my opinion, not a flame, though others may share the same frustrations.
So with the new version update, the builders and dms decided to implement the new UMD(use magic device) element in vives to determine scroll failure/success. I dont know if that has always been an option to make scrolls a part of this or what, but i thought this was stricly for wands, staves, etc. .... guess not.
now last night i was playing with Mars, my ranger/SD/bard (who has 2 points in UMD), and i was adventuring with Gregor, who is a 10th level rogue (who has 13 points in UMD). We were both exploring nebwood and some of the monsters there cast spells on us. I used a lesser restoration scroll to try and remove the effect that was on me, and it blew up in my face causing me to lose 30 hps. Gregor also tried to use a lesser restoration scroll and a remove curse scroll, both of which blew up in his face costing him hps as well.
To me, the scale that is currently set up on the scroll's success/failure is not geared well for the players in vives, and i think it needs immediate attention to make scrolls easier to use, and i will tell you why:
1. say for instance you have a character who is level 3 or 4 and is a rogue or mage who at that point will only have 20-25 hps. if this character uses a scroll and fails, it will kill said player. is that what you guys want? players dying because they are -able- to use the scroll because of their class, though they fail to read it properly(fail the UMD check) and die as a result?
2. what players other than say a rogue or bard will even invest skill points in UMD anyway? if you are of the fighting classes, you will at best usually only have 4 skill points per level, and choosing other skills to invest the points in is tough enough without having to consider investing them in UMD skill (which will cost the fighter/ranger/barbarian/etc. 2 points cause its not a class skill).
3. If a player such as Gregor who has invested 13 points in UMD cant even pass a lesser restoration check, what good will this ever do a fighting class due to the impossibility of the fighting class -ever- having 13 points in UMD?
4. so bascially the raise dead and ressurection scrolls are useless now because they certainly would have a higher check than a lesser restoraion?
5. is this fair to players who are already many levels into their characters? ex. anyone who is level 9 and above or so who has no points invested in UMD will have a hell of a time trying to catch up and will they have to put all their points there so they can actually use a scroll. This doesnt seem fair to any of the high level players at all.
6. (left blank for anyone else to pick up this thread and add to the list)
I think maybe a better way to implement UMD for scrolls would be 3-4 points in use magic device. that should be enough, just as it works for appraisal. even if this is not to be changed, i still think that the scroll should not blow up on the player, just have it disappear or fall apart after an attempted use.
UMD for scrolls in my opinion is a good thing for vives in theory, though it seems that it should have been implemented in the very beginning, not when players have characters who are already established and have little chance to shift gears and make appropriate player changes due to the sudden change in the server's rules.
Please feel free to discuss. |
"PLEASE!!! Bury me with it!" |
|
  |
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 12:07 PM |
Somthing happened to me like this but i was lucky that i wasnt in anywhere dangerous. I went to use rod of the ghost and it failed and I have no points in UMD as i never needed to, as a result Calia who is 16th level Cleric cant use any rods wands or anything.
This sucks as she could the other day and I must say that this will have caused the price of said items to come down alot as no one can use them |
Its easy clinging to your moral high ground when you have everything, try it when you have nothing left.
Cain Angus |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 12:25 PM |
Can only post short messages, so will keep this brief for once. I totally agree, DC29 for 4th lvl scrolls is way too high, for a slow levelling, high danger server like Vives. It messes up many of the existing rogues, and both Muga (5th lvl sorceror, used to be able to use all arcane scrolls, now has 100% failure of 3rd lvl and above scrolls and cant use any rods) and Sirac (from 100% casting all scrolls to 25% chance of casting a 2nd lvl spell, dont bother with higher than that) have been hit really hard.
That said I think a change was needed, it was too easy for a really powerful ability. But for what its worth, I think the new DC's are way too high.
Cheers,
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 12:36 PM |
There's a couple of different issues described by Gene.
1) Existing PCs, created with the old rules in mind.
Comment: Not sure what could be done about this. It does make a pure (or mostly pure) Rogue relatively more valuable to the player that plays them at higher levels. I say this because all rogues I've seen in Vives so far have religiously put points into UMD. But it won't be practical for any other PCs, excepting perhaps Bard, to use the restoration line of divine scrolls (including remove disease/poison/blindness scrolls), for example. And I feel that is unbalancing.
2) Certain type of items and specific items within an item type category should not require UMD checks.
Comment: The changes have captured some item classes that probably weren't intended, as those items that originally did not require arcane or divine caster levels and did not require UMD checks previously now do. Rods, previously mentioned in another thread, are the clearest example - as this entire item class was and is intended to be useable by anyone.
Overall:
I support the intent of the changes made to improve Vives, and recoginize the effort that goes into implementing new systems. It is an exceedingly rare occurence however, when a new system goes into effect and it is entirely bug-free - though this should not hinder efforts to revise the changes. Given the overall impact to Vives' players, I consider revising the implementation of the UMD/Spellcraft checks to be a top priority.
Edited to add what I feel the revisions should be:
1) Review the DCs and ensure they're inline with PnP rules.
2) UMD and Spellcraft are intended to provide for use of items (inc. scrolls, wands, etc.) that are "not otherwise useable to [ a PC].* Exclude UMD/Spellcraft checks for items that would normally be useable.
*taken from the PnP rules v3.0
Useless Trivia: "Rod of Wonder" still does not require a UMD/Spellcraft check. The reason is that it is seen as "Gloves of Wonder" by the game for some reason.
|
-æsir
"The man that finds himself at a crossroads, and unsure of direction, is not lost. For in truth, all roads will carry him to the same destination - his fate. But it is the determined man that takes the next step." -Aren
|
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 12:45 PM |
Without going into a long debate regarding the merits or demerits of this implementation, I will express a personal opinion here.
Straight melee classes, IMO, shouldn't be able to use scrolls at all. Vives has a shortage of clerics. People complain about this on a regular basis, but they don't ask themselves why there's such a shortage of clerics.
The answer to this, is that clerics have been relatively unneeded for anything other than resurrection. If a fighter can cure his own diseases, remove his own curses, restore his own ability damage, it obviates the need for the cleric unless he gets himself dead.
Frankly, the cleric shortage bothers me. I'd think that people would see a demand area, and fill that demand, but that doesn't seem to be happening yet. If this drives the cleric population up, I'm all for it. |
Question Authority! |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 12:49 PM |
One thought, and it is just a thought here, please do not take offence since I can see the point of the argument about high DC's
It strikes me that though Vives is a high danger world, surely - while I accept that the UMD skill is there for a reason - those of us who are rangers, rogues, etc should be thinking a little bit more about the innate abilities of the class we're playing.
If you're a rogue/ranger surely there's an easier option - sneak!
If you can't sneak through an area or aren't tough enough to get through it, don't go there till you can.
Just my 2p, but imho a little thought works wonders. |
Elvalia - Chosen of Aros
Elrith Mellin
Perin - 'Cleric (an' drewid) o' Elbreff' Weddin's an' pies a speciarality
|
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 12:52 PM |
I think this is considered. The innate abilities mentioned include the innate ability to use certain magic items without penalty/risk/skill checks. For rogues/bards, UMD is also a class feat that is available only to those classes.
|
-æsir
"The man that finds himself at a crossroads, and unsure of direction, is not lost. For in truth, all roads will carry him to the same destination - his fate. But it is the determined man that takes the next step." -Aren
|
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 12:53 PM |
I actually like the new UMD implementation, but i think it needs to be tweaked. The DCs Start out too high for the low lvl scrolls. As it stands now, a Lv 1 Rogue with max UMD has basically no chance of success reading a Lv 1 scroll. I think that should be more like a 50% chance. Furthermore, IMO, the high lvl spells arent all that much harder to read than the low lvl ones. As spell lvl goes up, it should get harder and harder however.
I think the UMD/Spellcraft DC progression should look something like this:
Scroll Lvl vs UMD/Spellcraft DC
1 / 15
2 / 17
3 / 19
4 / 22
5 / 25
6 / 28
7 / 32
8 / 36
9 / 40
I also think the rules on casters reading scrolls are too lenient. A Lv 1 caster shouldnt be able to read lv 8 scrolls. I would Take the Stat based determination out entirely and instead give them a +10 or so to Spellcraft checks for purposes of reading scrolls (for pure casters, +5 for hybrid like Paladin) for spells of thier orientation (Arcane or Divine).
I think these changes would make for a better, more well rounded system. Low lvl scrolls would be (potentially) useable by folks of modest skill, and the high lvl stuff would be only for those of high lvl. As Gene mentions, as it is now, poor low lvl characters trying to read identify scrolls are likely to kill themselves. Thats pretty harsh. |
Three sisters, born of the Sea
A sad fate t'was in store for thee
Oh Vaisha, Vahlah and Vallaesha |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 01:17 PM |
according to the pnp rules :
casters cannot use a scroll if they cannot cast the spell. period. a 1st level mage should never be able to cast a 9th level spell
fighers, of course, are right out
high level rogues are capable of using scrolls, but it is risky
I see no problems with the idea of the implementation
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 01:22 PM |
I agree with PD Im 100% with them.
I always wondered if a mage can read and cast a spell, why cant he do it again by himself... |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 01:24 PM |
Not true Paul,
I assure you in PnP rules do exist for using scrolls of a higher level than you can cast. In 3.5 Im 100% sure of that as have had to do it as my PnP cleric recently. But its not easy and virtually impossible for more than a few lvls difference.
I really like Kandaelis suggestion...though DC40 would really hurt! :0)
But its the low lvl rogues that really, really need to be able to use scrolls...up to 4th lvl anyway, and they will have no chance with these DC's.
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 01:39 PM |
Not true Paul,
I assure you in PnP rules do exist for using scrolls of a higher level than you can cast. In 3.5 Im 100% sure of that as have had to do it as my PnP cleric recently. But its not easy and virtually impossible for more than a few lvls difference.
[snip]
THere have been rules in 1e and it was possible and very dangersou. Don't know about 3.5e
In 3e there are no rules that I can find in the basic books.
However, there is no reason why it cannot be an optional rule. I was only pointing the 3e rules which nwn was based on.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 02:05 PM |
first off i'd like to say great points, folks! this is a good constructive thread and i hope that it stays this way. I have never played PnP, so i dont know the proper rules on scrolls, wands, etc. and am thankful that you guys are qouting these rules from your books.
Straight melee classes, IMO, shouldn't be able to use scrolls at all. Vives has a shortage of clerics. People complain about this on a regular basis, but they don't ask themselves why there's such a shortage of clerics.
I completely agree, Landru, about straight melee classes should not be able to use scrolls, but that brings up another good point: what about multi-classed players, and i'll use my elf, Mars, as an example. he is a 7th ranger/4th SD/1st bard. since I started him out as a ranger his intelligence wasnt that high(think its 10), so he still has a low amount of skill points upon leveling. now that i have him multiclassed into a bard, and 2 points invested into UMD, he still needs a ton more before he will be able to use wands, scrolls, ect. even if he was to level 3 more times and put all skill points in UMD it would still not be enough and he -is- a bard. The point i'm trying to make is one that has been stated above in that players who are pure casters or multied into a caster character are still at a disadvantage uder the current UMD DC checks. As someone else brought up, rods, wands, etc. which are usable by bards, rogues, and casters, though I dont know what the DC check is on these, it still seems as if these types of characters would have an easier time using them based on the type of player they are (rogue, bard, ranger, caster). Multi-classed characters who were melee, now multied into casters are at a distinct disadvantage under this system. I know that's the price you pay for multi-classing, but i feel like if you -are- now multied into a caster, then scrolls, wands, etc. should come easier to you now that you have the caster level(s) in your character.
Frankly, the cleric shortage bothers me. I'd think that people would see a demand area, and fill that demand, but that doesn't seem to be happening yet. If this drives the cleric population up, I'm all for it.
I'll speak for myself and Calia here. Landru is absoutely right, and we would love nothing more than to see more clerics running around with us. I would even be interested in starting an Order of Clerics to start a cleric guild to the God Theus. anyone interested in this contact me. I will make a post later if there are any interested.
From everyones opinions, the new UMD checks on items will find it's right niche in Vives. I think the idea is good, and appropriate, though i think it still needs a little more thought and work to make it fair for new and existing players of a pure and multi-classed status. |
"PLEASE!!! Bury me with it!" |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 03:43 PM |
| I dont think these changes will increase the number of clerics because even if melee classes cant read scrolls to cure themselves, potions are plentiful. AFAIK, an antidote potion, not only can cure poison, it can also remove ability penalty and remove disease. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 04:13 PM |
And as far as clerics go, you can go into the goodly temples in Midor and Port Royale and pay to be cured of everything by the NPC priests in there.
IMHO it seems that there are too many negatives with the way the UMD checks have been brought in.
Possible solutions are :
- Make the UMD checks easier perhaps as Kandaelis suggests (this is perhaps the best option and sounds like it will be the one best received by players with high level characters IG already)
- Make all skills checks take 20 out of combat
- Make items of spell craft have +20 and +10 instead of as they currently are +6 and +3
Just my twopenneth
Jane |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 04:38 PM |
I don't know if it's possible, but I do know that there are scrolls (usually divine ones, basics like restoration and all that) that have NO class requirement, meaning anyone could use them anyway.
Mages could use mage items without extra thought. As could bards, monks, clerics, and everybody else with class specific items. There's no NEED for a "use magic device" check because they know how to use their item due to their class.
This is where the check comes in. Use Magic Device is an ability wherein a character (usually a rogue) fiddles with a magic device to "trick" it into working for him. In D&D 3 (not 3.5), that was the very point of giving only Rogues and Bards that option. If they could get it to work, they could use items outside of their "scope" of understanding.
That all being said, I don't think there should be a check for any item that is not specific to a certain section of characters. Any magic item that should work for anyone should work without being subject to a UMD check, because the characters know how to use them (or in the case of a universal scroll, the instructions may be written right on the scroll!).
As far as class specific items go, I do understand the need for a UMD check, but let me ask, does this allow anyone to use any item? Or just any scroll? Or any scroll they could normally use? If it allows them to use anything, I would suggest a heavy bonus to a character using their class-specific items. For instance, a wizard staff might have a DC 20 to use it for any character, but a wizard should get a +10 circumstance bonus just for being a wizard.
Like I said, I don't know if such a concept is possible, but I think it would be nice to implement.
I also disagree with "taking 20" for UMD out of combat because fiddling with a device to make it work is really about luck, not about patience. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 04:54 PM |
*looks around*
I'd just like to mention that there is already a UMD check built into the game. Though it may be too, non-limiting to make a decent bite.
The UMD check is based off of the gold based vaules assigned to any object based on its properties, its the same system that creates level requirements for items.
I do agree that characters with 1 level of wizard should not be able to cast level 9 scrolls... but there are MANY factors to consider.
Scrolls higher than level 4 aren't very popular.. only on scant loot drops(With exception to a few mage facilities). I've never found a scroll higher than level 4 on any loot drop, which is unfortunate, because one of my friends only accepts payment in scrolls.
As Rob said, Many Cleric scrolls are usable by anyone, such as Restoration. Except for Raise dead, these scrolls have much more popular and more effective potion versions, that anyone can drink anyways (Are we going to start adding checks to potions now?) . Though there are a lack of Clerics, I still think anyone should be able to use these scrolls, and Clercs certainly shouldn't have a hard time reading them if they are required a check.
Vives already has Multiclass level restrictions in place, so level 1 wizards won't be nearly as popular as level 4 wizards. Level 4 wizards should be able to cast ~ level 4 scrolls anyways, so unless they are very lucky, they don't really need to be too limited in their ability to cast level 9 spells, because there aren't any. If they do have level 9 scrolls, they are lucky, and being able to cast the spell should be their reward for finding it.
As someone who has no caster levels, the only way this update effects me, is making my highly sought after Rods of Ghost useless, *shrug* You know what they say, difficult come, easy go. Other than that.. I am not for or Against this new system. |
The Legacy Saga |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 09 Jul 2004 06:38 PM |
Re: Divine Scrolls
From what I can see, the ability for non-divine spellcasters to read a handful of divine scrolls is purely an adaption made for NWN to make it possible for single player campaigns to be completed without a cleric. Divine spellcasters should be the only people able to activate divine spell scrolls, just as Arcane spellcasters should be the only people able to activate arcane spell scrolls. With the possible exception of rogues/bards with UMD.
This script doesn't actually restict the use of the 'universal' divine spell scrolls to divine spellcasters only. However, it does effectivly limit these 'universal' divine spell scrolls from non-caster characters unless they have for somereason invested in spellcraft (at least I believe that is the case). The arcane spell-casters will still be able to use these divine scrolls given the right level and spellcraft. That is something I may look into, limiting even the 'universal' divine scrolls to divine casters only.
Thank you for the constructive feedback, we will seriously be considering the DC levels for scrolls, and the idea put forward certainly has merit. |
~Alosynth
|
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 01:29 AM |
Just clear up a few things first.
Veran, level 4 wizards/clerics/druids can cast level 2 spells, not 4.
With reguard to reading scrolls, in PnP you can automatically read any scroll that is of a spell level you can already cast and a check is only necessary if you are trying to read a scroll that is of higher level. (3rd ed rules)
I don't like the changes to UMD. A pure rogue that is not intended for melee combat in some reguard is going to be hit hard by these changes. Pure rogues usually have two avenues at higher levels if they want to have any significant impact upon combat and they are: traps, or UMD. Requiring a UMD score of 40 in order to cast level 9 spells is going to require a pure rogue of approximately level 32 in order to get the spells to a decent chance of consistent success. High level scrolls are NOT common in Vives. And it's rediculous to think that an epic level rogue who has pumped as many skill points as possible into UMD wouldn't be able to use relatively basic magical items such as scrolls consistently. In my opinion they should be able to do so automatically.
However, that said, I agree with Landru that melee classes shouldn't be able to use scrolls so easily. I've always thought of UMD as a rogue or Bard skill purely. In fact, I've just looked up the PnP rulebook and it *IS* a prohibited skill for any class other than Bard or Rogue. I think the ideal solution would be to change Vives' rules to match the PnP rules in this case. Not sure if that's easily done though. |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 03:15 AM |
Just clear up a few things first.
Veran, level 4 wizards/clerics/druids can cast level 2 spells, not 4.
Yes, I know this.. Note my usage of the phrase "level 4 scrolls" and not spells. I'm quite familiar with the spell progression.
With reguard to reading scrolls, in PnP you can automatically read any scroll that is of a spell level you can already cast and a check is only necessary if you are trying to read a scroll that is of higher level. (3rd ed rules)
I think it should be within reasonable successrate for a level 4 wizard to cast a scroll two levels higher than a memorized spell he can cast everyday, Thus my confusing statement, sorry Pugs.
I don't like the changes to UMD. A pure rogue that is not intended for melee combat in some reguard is going to be hit hard by these changes. Pure rogues usually have two avenues at higher levels if they want to have any significant impact upon combat and they are: traps, or UMD. Requiring a UMD score of 40 in order to cast level 9 spells is going to require a pure rogue of approximately level 32 in order to get the spells to a decent chance of consistent success. High level scrolls are NOT common in Vives. And it's rediculous to think that an epic level rogue who has pumped as many skill points as possible into UMD wouldn't be able to use relatively basic magical items such as scrolls consistently. In my opinion they should be able to do so automatically.
As an experienced rogue, who has played nothing but a rogue for almost 2 years (Until I joined Vives and made some weird fighter) I agree with Most of these sentiments. As an archer, however, I can say that high level rogue combat abilities aren't entirely based on combat. Use magic Device IS a Bard and rogue class exclusive skill as of 3rd edition, however, they decided to remove its exclusivity in 3.5. I was quite upset when I heard the news, but I haven't bothered to check if its exclusive in Vives as of yet.
I'll admit scrolls do take a bit of the usefullness away from Mages, but mages have so little use for melees like me these days (Especially the kind that can't use scrolls) It hardly balances. Scrolls, however, are hardly a substitute for a mage.. especially since all the innate levels are pretty low. Unlike clerics, however, there are quite a few mages around. I can't really think of many fighters my level either.... They are all Rogues and Arcane archers. and a few Clerics *grins* |
The Legacy Saga |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 03:49 AM |
UMD -is- a rogue (and bard) only skill in NWN. Fighters cannot take it, not even at a 2 to 1 cost. So the talk of fighters being able to use scrolls isnt relevant as far as I can see, except for the universal scrolls which has always been the case. And presuming the universal scrolls are subject to the UMD rules, that's no longer a problem anyway.
High lvl scrolls are a lot more common IG now, making these changes all the more relevant. Sol has found more scrolls from player trades and loot drops in last few weeks than in last few months.
And while DC40 for 9th would really hurt, you dont need to be lvl 32. Sirac will be lvl 21 soon, will take epic focus UMD and have a 50% chance of casting them. Which is about right for such a high lvl, they should be really hard to cast for rogues. Kandaelis' suggestion really is well balanced...except maybe it should be easier for those with spellcraft than those with UMD as per current system.
Cheers,
Sean. |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 05:07 AM |
Cantor is a lev 17 char and in all my time looting I've found about 6 level 9 scrolls. Saying they are common loot drops is rediculous. There is no way you would put skill points into UMD with the current scroll loot drops let alone an epic feat just to gain a 50% chance of successfully casting a spell when the alternative is having it blow up in your face. The only scrolls that would even be used in combat with that sort of success rate would be buffs used before combat even starts. The only reason I can see for taking UMD now, is to be able to use items restricted by alignment, class or race.
If non-bards/rogues cannot take UMD I don't honestly see what the problem is. It's not overpowered if it's restricted to those two classes.
Seems to me this is yet another case of somthing being "fixed" that was never broken. |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 05:35 AM |
I know of one place IG where its not uncommon to get one or two 9th lvl scrolls, and quite possibly a total of about 4 or 5 post 5th lvl scrolls. Its a high lvl area but still...
Narenia added the higher lvl scrolls into the treasure tables two or three weeks ago. Since then they -are- a lot more common.
And as for epic focus, I intend to do that as Sirac asap. Not so I have a 50% chance of casting 9th, but so that I only have a 1 in 20 chance of failing to cast level 5 and below. Well worth it to me, and has always been an integral part of Sirac's character. Its a sacrifice of an epic feat, but worth it...and that in and of itself goes to show how powerful an ability UMD is.
Quite simply, the old system was overpowered. The ability to spend 12 skill pts to use every scroll IG was too powerful. Currently the system is skewed too far the other way, but as per usual the vives team have been reasonable and open to discussion, and hopefully something like Kandaelis' proposal can be adopted.
Cheers,
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 07:24 AM |
| Well, I havn't played Vives in the last three weeks so I havn't seen the updated treasure tables. If scrolls are significantly more common now then I agree that the DC for activating them could be increased, but I still think even the proposed changes are too drastic. |
Cantor Matriel - "How much?" |
|
|
|
|
Re: UMD scale is skewed
Posted: 10 Jul 2004 07:47 AM |
Cantor is a lev 17 char and in all my time looting I've found about 6 level 9 scrolls. Saying they are common loot drops is rediculous.
Sirac said they are "a lot more common" not that they are common.
There were virtually no scrolls in loot drops Feb-June this year, i.e. when I started playing Sol. But now scrolls are definitely in loot drops. Sol is 3 scrolls away from a full spellbook now. That's from finding them and trading with players. But the higher level scrolls are still rare in the same way as other good items are.
cheers,
Jane |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|