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Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 12:42 PM |
| Yep. Number one request by yours truly. Pleased to donate if you do set up a pay pal link. Putting my money where my mouth is. |
Humbly Submitted,
Sinjin Kane |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 01:15 PM |
Being that I just got killed by a couple gypsies due to me not being able to move, and then being killed literally 30 seconds before the server timed out, I would have to say that I agree completely. Get a PayPal account and let people donate some funds for a better server if possible. I usually do not complain much, but I just died 300exp short of level 9, which I have been working towards for atleast a month.
Molo..... |
So a cleric, a ranger, and a thief walk into a bar, which one am I?
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 01:28 PM |
Again, the staff just pitched in to buy a new server.
One of the major causes of lag is rental containters having too many items in there. We're working on a limit function for their storage capacity, but in the meantime, owners of the chests can really help out by storing less in their chests, and opening/closing them as little as possible.
Those of us with permanent houses have a storage limit of 15 items. I'd recommend trying to keep your own chest at that level. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 01:45 PM |
There's another reason, and I'll open this up to all the players to decide. Another problem is PACKS. Some players have about 10-15 packs in inventory, ALL FULL. Moving around actually creates a great rift of lag, like bubble of 1500+ pings in any area they travel to. What do you people think is a fair solution...no bags at all? Maybe a limit of 3 bags per person (not sure if that's scriptable)? That is another big source of lag other than the rental containers which we ARE going to fix.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 01:46 PM |
| Thanks for the heads up on items in chests--I had no idea and will pare mine down as soon as I get back to it. |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 01:47 PM |
did the houses work fine in SoU? (when there was much less lag) Becuase at present, the lag is nearly unplayable if you would like to get out and travel. Im sure Im going to get bonked for this but if containers are causeing such a problem and it cant be fixed should we consider eliminating them?
Lets face it, not too many people are going to voluntarily keep their chests at 15 items. |
Humbly Submitted,
Sinjin Kane |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 02:17 PM |
Well, i guess the lag actually helped me because, when I logged in after server reset, I was actually alive and kicking at full strength, no lag, and I got the oppurtunity to kill all four gypsies. If this was a DM thing, Thank You, if not Thank the gods for the luck!!!
Molo..... |
So a cleric, a ranger, and a thief walk into a bar, which one am I?
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 02:20 PM |
| I have several bags. If you decide to get rid of some give a heads up so we can adjust our inventory accordingly. Some of us have no home rental or not, and some of us that dont dont want one. Bags have been my only storage option. But if they are causing problems i can ditch most of em and quit crafting. I don't -usually- suffer from lag with just myself or one or two others. But everytime 4- 12 people get together it is basically unplayable for me. I've always lagged in a group tho on this server and others. So I honestly dont think removing bags will help in any noticable way. I hate this game but i love it so much i cant quit playin it no matter how unplayable it really is. |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 02:32 PM |
Unfortunatly, there is not much more that can be added to the server that would result in decresed lag. As Merum said, we recently upgraded the server through generous donations from DM's to use the latest generation of P4 chips, as well as running a Gb of dual channel memory.
Most of the lag is either from changes to the engine that came with HotU, or through building issues on our side. Hopefully, the new HotU patch will fix some of these sources, and we will continue to find ways to reduce the sources on our end.
Removing rental containers outright might make a tiny difference in the amount of lag, but its doubtfull that it will make any large impact. Its all the straws together where the headaches come from, and removing just one wont clear it up. The best thing we builders can do is continue to tackle them, one issue at a time, and find the smartest way of dealing with them, rather than just deleting them, such that we dont lose functionality. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 02:43 PM |
Some of us need bags. Fri'el wouldn't work without her bags. They don't mean she stores "more", it means she can run.
-Barnas |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 03:16 PM |
Considering that the average merchant on Vives gives a return value of approximately 500 gold MAX on "high-value" treasure, and the high number of items (and especially plot items) given out as quest rewards, it's really kind of inevitable that adventurers will either wind up with a bunch of items in their chests, or a bunch of items on bags on their person.
Honestly, PC's are some of the most notorious packrats in all the multi-verse to begin with, and a situation where resale value gives such a minimal return only encourages the "well, maybe I'll use it someday" mentality of players. I, for one, am not likely to just trashcan all the nifty magickal tower shields and plot platemail armor and +3 weapons of stupidly heavy that I come across if I think I can maybe someday give it to another hero who could really use it, but neither am I likely to crawl across the face of the server at a constant rate of "heavily encumbered".
And I don't even HAVE bags, not one. But when I do, that'll be the last time I ever drop a magic weapon at the Great Plains camp 'cause I can't walk at a normal speed, in hopes that someone will find it in such a high-traffic area and have use for it.
Which is still only about loot, and doesn't even touch on the requirements of crafters (I don't craft, personally).
Here's an alternate idea, although I'll admit it's one with it's own downsides:
With the change in availability of travel across the continent of Vives, the server will IMO naturally seperate itself into more and more of a "North and South" feel. It's relatively easy to draw some arbitrary lines across the areas to segrate them into two sensible geographic groups. So.... Have you considered splitting your mod? If you're running a dualie-head P4 server, or even a single-head w/ hyperthreading, then you could see a big performance increase by splitting your mod in two and assigning each mod to it's own processor. You'll need to work out sharing a server-vault across two mods, and get a good "portalling" system attached to your caravans and boats, but the benefits to this could/would include --
* Decreasing mod size decreases load time and build/update time.
* Reducing player count per-mod decreases instances of OnClientEnter and OnClientLeave.
* A DM event at Ladriel won't lag out people on the Northern Highway. :D
* Reducing the number of members-per-faction of your mod will help alleviate some lag related to faction behavior. (Thanks, Bioware.)
Other than that, I can also suggest that if you have any OnHeartbeat scripts running (the newspaperman in Port Royale?) you look to developing alternate ways of handling the events those scripts cover. It's my understanding that there are some kinda ugly memory leaks associated with the OnHeartbeat event.
Sorry if any of this is stuff you already knew. *grin*
-- Figleaf |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 04:13 PM |
I myself have always stuck by good old fashioned hope. That's right. Nothing much I can do about it, so all I do is watch and wait. Luckily, that fits in with the majority of my characters, as they're dead :D.
Forlorn Hope
Company of Select Marksmen |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 05:05 PM |
Its like Murphys Law when they add stuff they break existing stuuf. dang you HotU, dang you to hell.
Yes, yes I like Hotu - lots - but egad BioWare people - fix your software fortheloveofallthatsholy.com |
Humbly Submitted,
Sinjin Kane |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 06:46 PM |
No suggestions, no solutions and it is such a shame. Vives was unplayable today from about 2GMT right through to about 9GMT. Lag was so bad I died twice. Once from Bears , once from boredom.
I know its no-ones fault (except being all Biowares fault). I think the hope idea is a good one and perhaps whilst being called Hordes of the Underdark perhaps a reasonable approach to Hording by PCs. Lets regulate this ourselves and not force the hand of the DMs. Get rid of items we are unlikely to need. I know I will be.
Lastly, I think it would also be nice if the DMs could be mindful of people who die due to lag. I did but was able to respawn. I nearly did today, but was lucky. Calia on the other hand was not. Server crashed, in a dangerous area (but she was with people). She came back in alone and with lag. She didnt stand a chance and lost XP. Not sure how to repairate.
Its just once of those things I guess.
Night night. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 08:01 PM |
I would say limit people to 1 bag. There is not reason to run around with 12 bags full of crap. I have 0 magic bags because i have never ever seen them, but i do have one ox pack that is used only to keep scrolls in ebcasue of the stack issue which is nolonger an issue becasue of the changed merchants. As a result i will toss it into the trash next chance i get. If people actually have 12 -MAGIC- bags i would have to ask how on earth did you get that.
Also i have noticed that when a few people log in and out it casuses MASSIVE lag. Its only a few specific people to and it realy hurts. I've died because of it before. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 08:18 PM |
Greetings all,
First a disclaimer....Thanks to all who make Vives such a wonderful experience, moderators, developers, Dm's, players and <fill in blank, for those I left out>!
Now, on to the meat of the post.....I dont know if all others are experiencing this Lag monster such as I am, however, based on my latest experiences I will not be logging on if I see to many people on. The experience is unsatisfactory and downright dangerous for my chars. I will do my best upon my next entry in game to reduce my inventories. I hope it will help.
With that said, on to my constructive (I hope) contribution.....
Crafting! I have done very little due to the inaccessability of the resources, but what I have done, I do all at once. Saving what materials I can gather until I have enough to make a crafting session worthwhile. I now see, that may be having an adverse impact on the server. I will therefore sell all my resources and cease crafting until such a time as the lag monster is vanquished, or at least beat into submission. Now I do have a suggestion for the powers that be, mayhaps it is a workable solution. I leave that to you who must deal with its implimentation to figure out its feaseability. It may be that crafting is meant to be a sideshow on the server and isnt supported for that reason. If so ignore the following as I obviously dont know of what I speak.
Currently when one goes to either the Herbalist in PR or the Mage tower in Midor, they usually have nothing for a crafter to use in pursuit of these skills. This makes the hording of resources more likely to occur (and its concurrent effect on lag). My suggestion is for these merchants to have stocks of component materials available for the pursuit of these crafts. It would seem that the quantities, pricing and availabilities of the components could be adjusted to suit the servers ultimate goal as regards crafting. I only use alchemy as an example since that is currently the only craft I have pursued. If in fact the problem occurs in other crafts also, they could be handled in a similar manner.
If I have walked a path already tread by others, I apologize for taking your time. (No, I have not read the entire archival history of posts...*grin*) Ignore the man behind the curtain......
Thanks for listening and see ye about....
Jody |
After my 'tour of duty' in Vietnam, I truly learned what the following phrase means...."I'd rather be 'Lucky' than good...." |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 09:00 PM |
We know the problem, and you may not like the response.
Basiaclly, we can have very little lag on this server. If we take out crafting altogether which accounts for...ooohh...an end result of about 50% of our lag.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 09:07 PM |
I cannot profess to speak for others, but I for one would vote for less Lag. Especially since crafting is minor attraction for me, as a lower level character anyway. My logic goes as such....more lag=less play since the quality of the experience is degraded so strongly. The dropping of crafting and decrease in Lag would therefore be a positive experience for me...
Mayhaps a poll would be in order at this time?
at your service,
Jody |
After my 'tour of duty' in Vietnam, I truly learned what the following phrase means...."I'd rather be 'Lucky' than good...." |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 09:20 PM |
Hrm...indeed.
Just my 2 pez, someone mentioned above that merchants should hold more of the necessary components in their inventories, persistently. If this does work to reduce lag, then this sounds like a good idea. It makes sense, my char. is still low level, but is already hoarding certain crafting items. A shiift would dissuade that behavior.
So what effect would the change have on lag? on game play mechanics (obviously things would be a little more workable)? etc.
-Sai Barris |
Sai Barris, Scamp-at-Large
Cynda LeRange, Reporter, Port Royale
Parson Droim Raine, Preacha o da Word o Swiftfoot |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 10:35 PM |
We have to first look at the immediate lag factors of CNR:
*Many useable placeables
*Said placeables have respawn scripts for their resources
*Many scripts for actual implementation of the crafting trade
*Actual creation of items from the trade
Also, there are the secondary lag factors of CNR:
*People hoarding the materials
*People doing crafting quite a bit, possible more than one at a time, firing off scripts
*People keeping tons of finished items to sell or to simply hoard
*Those dang bags that create an entire lag-rift around the character holding 10-15 bags
These are the results of CNR. Now, a lot of people have put their time into crafting, a lot like it, a few think its useless and boring, although it does add a nice RP aspect, and several characters have based character RP and much IG time over crafting. A tricky subject, yes. Personally? Hell I'd throw the dang thing out, but I don't speak for everyone.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 22 Feb 2004 10:45 PM |
At this point no one knows where the lag is coming from.
With minimum major core coding changes from pre-hotU and post-HotU on our side (except perhaps it being slimmed down), chances are it isn't even from in-game content but merely bandwidth limitations. There's a constant 20+ people on the forums and 15 in-game - and that Víves the game, Website, and a FTP are all running off a single home-cable connection (and then there's also Q's personal uses  )
I guess the bottom-line is someone can vouch to support a T1 line so the Víves crew can test it out 
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 23 Feb 2004 07:10 AM |
Selling all my materials today. I think crafting is a great RP "builder" and good background, but not at the expense of playablility. (If a T1 works I'll pick it up again) Hell I'm playing Sinjin as a cook and struggling herbalist - lots of fun.
Just wanted to say that around 10 pm est there seemed to be much less lag - and around 12 pm est there was almost none - not sure if you guys did anything or if it was just not many crafters/home owners/15 bag holders on. It felt GOOD. |
Humbly Submitted,
Sinjin Kane |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 23 Feb 2004 07:15 AM |
CNR is a nice little character twist, not exactly what I would call good fun but good RP. Perhaps there could be less crafts. Tailoring (which incidentally is the only craft I have) could perhaps go, as could maybe tinkering. Then perhaps have more readily available resources of gem crafting, alchemy and weapon/ armour making. This would minimise CNR (whout getting rid of it) and reduce hording considerably.
I have no idea if this is at all feasible however.
Thanks again to all those that work behind Vives. I think those who give their opinions (and yes I am fairly opinionated) do so not in an ungrateful way but a constructive way. I certainly (as I have said) think Vives is worth paying for. My suggestions are only on how to make a good thing better. |
Never argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.
Akril
Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 23 Feb 2004 03:53 PM |
With minimum major core coding changes from pre-hotU and post-HotU on our side (except perhaps it being slimmed down), chances are it isn't even from in-game content but merely bandwidth limitations. There's a constant 20+ people on the forums and 15 in-game - and that Víves the game, Website, and a FTP are all running off a single home-cable connection (and then there's also Q's personal uses )
I guess the bottom-line is someone can vouch to support a T1 line so the Víves crew can test it out
Egads! You're running all that on home-cable? Would you possibly consider outsourcing all your haks to NWVault, having someone on the team volunteer their own PC on scheduled, off-peak times to act as FTP for distributing team material (presuming that's part of why it's there...) and removing the FTP from the equation entirely?
I'm suddenly remembering when I first started on Vives, and the 45+ minutes it took me to FTP that horn8.hak using my own (fairly fast) business class DSL. I apologize to anyone who died lag death on that day. *grin*
Also....
Let's take a moment to talk about client lag, something that doesn't get a lot of publicity when people are talking about lag in an online game. What did HotU bring us?
* Skyboxes
* Increased model animations, and motion-capture modeling
* SetFogDistance()
* Increased placeable complexity, and increased polygon count
Looks real pretty, yes? But has anyone stopped to think that the PC they played NWN and SoU on just might, possibly, not really be able to handle HotU? Check the box, the system reqs. went up, and honestly those system reqs. are pure fantasy anyways.
Do you notice slowdown/stoppage btw the time some casts fireball and the time it "explodes"? Have creatures con as Dead but they are still standing upright on your screen? See your partymate standing in front of you when you know they are three maps away?
That's all client lag.
I've got two PC's set up right next to each other, both running HotU. One of 'em has a SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful video card, and it so happens that the more powerful card is nVidia while the less powerful is ATI.
The differences in performance btw the two machines is really remarkable. Tested on Vives, tested on other PW's, tested on LAN games. Aside from the number of real serious issues that ATI has rendering NWN graphics (it really does, and several updates to the Catalyst drivers has yet to completely remove ATI from the "known issues" list as far as I'm concerned) there are MAJOR differences in framerate, and rendering, regarding a couple of key issues. One of which is spell effects, as I've mentioned above. The other is motion/movement. Really, the inconsistencies in client depiction of relative movement rates and positions is AMAZING. I can put two PC's standing right next to each other, start them both running in the same direction at the same time towards a "goal", and get completely different "winners" for my test race depending on which monitor I'm looking at.
Seriously, on each monitor it will appear that the other PC is SEVERAL FEET behind the PC for that computer.
Symptoms of client lag include:
1. Nothing happens on your screen for several minutes, then you suddenly get 10 rounds of combat in 2 seconds.
2. You get hung up on, or run into, "invisible objects" all the time, especially when running in a group. (Good money says you are running into your teammates, you just can't tell from your end.)
3. You lag badly when surrounded by 5 fully buffed mages, but the lag clears up when you leave their area, even though they haven't logged off the server.
Within the past week I followed a party of 10+ into Firkraag halls. Lag on my end? Virtually zero. In fact, I specfically remember commenting to my wife at the time how amazingly lag free I found the whole experience to be, in comparison to my experiences on other PW's.
Which isn't to say I haven't experienced an upswing in lag on Vives recently. I surely have. But I haven't had anywhere near the lag on my machine w/ the 256Mb nVidia GeForce5600 that I've observed on my wife's machine w/ the 64Mb ATI Radeon7500. (She'll be getting a nice nVidia related present from me sometime in the very near future...)
Also, and this is just speculation on my part, but I think that there has been a lot of new DM training going on the past week, yes? It was taken for granted on the last server I played that DM Client = lag. Seriously, if 3 DM's logged in at the same time, half the server would log out and sit in IRC until they knew the DM's were gone, because it had gotten that bad. (Thanks again, Bioware.)
Another suggestion, since I try not to "naysay" without presenting an alternative...
It takes some pretty gnarly labor on someone's part, but it is possible for a given server, or a given mod, to have the majority of it's visible spell effects removed. Mostly you've got to go through all the listings and comment out the VFX lines. Spells like Premonition, Endure Elements, and all the rest of the "sparkly cloud" effects for buffs are, for starters, completely OOC, totally contrary to the descriptions in the PHB, and a MAJOR source of client lag.
Again, sorry if I'm rehashing info the team has already covered.
-- Figleaf |
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Re: Hrm... I'll take less lag for 1,000 Alex.
Posted: 23 Feb 2004 04:00 PM |
I'd like to see a lot of spell effects removed purely because they look stupid.
The only spell effect I'd run with if I had a choice would be Fri'els nice spell resistance. Being surrounded by a globe of runes makes you look cool. All the others are just dumb.
(And I get no client lag with my crappy ATI Mobility 9000 64mb)
-Barnas |
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