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Alignment modification
Posted: 26 Jan 2004 01:31 PM |
Hi,
I have found lots of situations to modify my alignment towards either good or evil, but I have found very few situations where alignment can be modified towards law or chaos. (actually, I have only found ways to modify alignment towards chaos, not towards law)
Are there such situations in the Vives at this current time, beyond DM interaction? Has anyone come across such situations?
A simple yes or no will do for an answer.
Thanks.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 26 Jan 2004 01:37 PM |
Not that I have ever found, no.
-Barnas |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 26 Jan 2004 01:48 PM |
| There are definitely ways to shift yourself to chaos. I'm not aware of any that shift you to law. |
Question Authority! |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 26 Jan 2004 02:14 PM |
I am almost 100% sure there are ways to turn yourself to lawful..
tho maybe the trigers I think about turns you to good not to lawful..
anyway, chaos good and evil triggers are IG for sure
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 26 Jan 2004 02:30 PM |
As far as I know there are no Lawful modifiers IG. So once you go chaotic, you'll have a hard time going back to lawful. ;)
But the IG I know is limited of course to all the areas Dias has seen, which isn't even half of the server. Then again, if those lawful modifiers are in the places Dias hasn't yet been in... Heehee, roll up for a tour with PAJWT then ;) |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 26 Jan 2004 03:54 PM |
I have found lots of situations to modify my alignment towards either good or evil, but I have found very few situations where alignment can be modified towards law or chaos. (actually, I have only found ways to modify alignment towards chaos, not towards law)
This is by design, there are some things that will modify you towards good, though I am unaware of any that will go towards lawful. And of course lots for moving to evil/chaotic. The rational behind this is that it is alot harder to stay lawful then chaotic. Most people are by nature greedy, so you must make an effort to stay lawful. The same to a lesser extent for the evil/good axis, though I wouldn't say people are by nature evil. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 26 Jan 2004 08:03 PM |
| It also assumes that people who follow their consciences are always lawbreakers, and that laws are never passed favoring those who are greedy. ;P |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 27 Jan 2004 02:05 AM |
One bad thing about NWN OC is that it improperly conditions you on playing which is detrimental towards play on Vives. There are lots of situations where you can do things and receive no penalty for having taken those actions. Looting chests in a city is one such example. Obviously Vives takes a more realistic approach to the consequences of ones actions.
I lost several points of "Lawful" in my first few minutes on Vives because I was doing the same things I did in NWN. For example, in the first few minutes in Vives, I earned a stay at the 7 Sisters. Oh look, there is a chest with some gold in it. Oh look, I just lost some points on my lawful alignment. (to be fair, there was a warning message, but since I read the text on the screen, and not in the message boxes, I missed the advice from my conscience).
Of course, I learned from this - never loot boxes unless you are in a "monster" area.
The second time happened very soon afterwards. This time, I knew never to look the boxes, but still... I was curious to see what was inside one - not take anything as that would be wrong under these circumstances, just look. Cool, some interesting stuff. Examine it. *poof* 5 more points towards chaos. ouch. that was harsh. It's not like I actually took anything. (no, no. to be fair, I actually cannot complain about that one either - but it still hurt). Of course, donating a lot of gold to the Sisters afterwards netted me 2 more points towards good. Great.
Of course, I learned from this - never open boxes unless you are in a "monster" area.
Still, I have gotten so shy of checking things, that I prefer to let other people open chests now as I am teetering close to Neutral - one more mistake or miss-click could be quite bad for my preferred character.
Good/Evil? I have found so many situations where it can be altered (relative to Law/Chaos) either way that I almost feel that it does not matter too much.
Perhaps someday, my character will meet the masters of the Ashai monastery when they are available and prove his worth to them.
- Paul
PS: This is not a rant, just some feedback on Vives. In general, I am quite happy with the way you guys have worked things. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 27 Jan 2004 05:24 AM |
the biggest prob i have with the system now is that your allignment can be changed by another person on the other side of the island. some people may not care about there law/chaos, i do. i have yet to lose a single point with neb, i know that i will some day and i am sure i will not be anywhere near the peson that robbed sombody. i have lost points with other chars simply because i was in a party just before an adventure and had to step away from the keyboard for two mins, while one spent there time waiting by looting.
im not sure if it has been changed, but i know it was or maybe still is possible to buy a good allignment. with an honest effort not to be offensive here but how can this have been or still be explained on a rp server. i dont really care now but when i first started playing as a good cleric that allways done the right thing and never stole anything, i was extremely disspleased to learn that alignment could be perchased rather cheaply. |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 27 Jan 2004 05:33 AM |
I'd agree with MatRuss. There are significant problems with some of the alignment shifts going to party. I was in a different area to a PC once, when my clerics alignment suddenly dissapeared in about 30 seconds. She's still Chaotic to this day.
With some PCs, that sort of alignment shift is catastrophic. With a cleric, their alignment is linked to their god, it's very important. With a Monk or Paladin even moreso. They can't advance in their class because someone did something they had no way of stopping?
If it is possible to keep these alignment shifts to just the person, I'd recommend it. Or have the warning text sent to all PCs in party so they can leave the party before their friend on the other side of the world goes and loots too many chests.
-Barnas |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 27 Jan 2004 07:02 AM |
*eureka!*
I was wondering about that behaviour! I saw it happening to me along the good/evil axis. One day I was good, and the next, I was neutral. I thought it was either a bug, or I thought that maybe I had did something and not noticed the warning message. Fortunately I was able to donate my way back into good graces.
That system is a potentially serious problem for many characters. Why should anyone party up, if their alignment is subject to the whims of another character? Is there any way of protecting oneself against these things?
On the other hand, just think of the fun you could have if you played a character who did not care about their alignment. Party up, and see how long it takes you to bust a Monk or Paladin! Oh happy day! Think of the look on their faces!
No, I think that the system should be changed. Perhaps something like:
- do it only if they are in the party and if they are within a certain range and in a position to observe what has happened
- do it after giving the character a warning or two about the actions possibly impacting their own alignment if they continue to associate with such a character (and that association must not be remade within a certain amount of time)
Now if Vives had a reputation system of some sort, then it would be more reasonable to change a players reputation based on the actions of others, present or not. After all, people perceive you partly based on the company you keep.
Any further thoughs on the matter O Game World Masters?
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 27 Jan 2004 10:53 AM |
Ehhh...dunno, I can't code .
But as a DM, I would say this. If we can make it so people far away from you who do a quest or deed that shifts alignment shifts only their own, then that should work. In my opinion, if they are close by and you SEE them begin to do chaotic things or evil things, IMO that is associating and passively accepting what they do, so if they are close to you (within eyesight) in an area, then yes, it should shift your alignment as well. If not, then maybe we can code it so innoncent parties aren't caught in such a thing.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 27 Jan 2004 02:17 PM |
It would be a tough one.
What if that person is locked in a conversation with an NPC going down a nasty route in the conversation tree? How is a player supposed to deal with that. Drop from the group immediately? Get another widget that allows them to interrupt the conversation?
It's a tough problem.
The easiest solution is just to make a persons action affect only themselves.
- Paul
PS: Who wants to go Paladin busting? It's a great new sport out of Midor to see if you can take some of that stuff out of their shirts. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 01:31 AM |
well it finaly friggen happened. whatching pick bringing constructs out just to kill them i was destracted for a few mins while me and chandler attacked, i forgot to leave the party. its getting ridiculas having to leave the party every time somebody leaves your sight. so here i am partyed with a thief which was on the other side of the known world to me while and i lose an chaos law point. this is the first point i have ever lost, and i the char i made is the one i wish to play so losing a single point is a big deal to me. please if at some point in the near future i could get this point back i would be greatfull, i will pay gold if needed to get it back.
please i do not wish this one char i have made to be the least bt chaotic. |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 02:25 AM |
I know how annoying it is to have your alignment changed. And it would be good to see the system changed at some stage; but there is another solution-
Be careful who you party with!
If you loose/gain a point where you don't want to, just don't party with that person again.
It has zero impact on gameplay if you gain/loose a single point, however your character can RP being appauled by what the other person did- assuming they saw it.
Or you can ask the person OOC not to loot without leaving party first. *shrugs*
-Barnas |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 03:03 AM |
ok first off me and the thief couldnt have been further away, me in the port plaza him in midor. so this is completly ooc action affecting a ic response, ic we was not exactly together.
for the zero impact on gameplay, i am not playing a thief and do not wish to lose points for things i didnt steal. when i made this char i made him lawfull good and thats what i wanted to play. i just hate the fact that i am not breaking the law and i am taking the penalties for it. an impact on gameplay will be very clear if or when i am raised after a death.
the asking the person to simply leave the party first thing works great untill they forget, which was the case this time.
please this is a ooc event with ic consequences i just want the one lost lawfull point restored. |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 04:40 AM |
I can see where you're coming from, however rest assured that one point has no effect on you being raised. (Only whole alignments, EG a shift from L-G to N-G)
If you really want the point restored (And havn't already), I'd suggest PMing a DM or Alosynth in IRC or on the site- I don't think such matters are dealt with from forum posts. (Though I may, of course, be wrong)
I wouldn't hold my breath, though, since I never got the 50 points back after I lost them in a similar incident.
-Barnas |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 09:33 AM |
That is a tough situation. Around here the saying is "If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas." That adds another aspect unique to this world. (Better keep an eye on that rogue, Willum, and make sure he gets us into no trouble)
Of course, when a party character is in a different local from the party and does something that affects your alignment that does not seem fair either. I really like the idea that one player's actions could only affect another's alignment if they were in close proximity, but could that be coded?
I do not know. |
Rutger_13
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Not all who wander are lost |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 09:48 AM |
The party-alignment hits is one of those hardwired Bioware issues which can't be circumvented or modified.
Beware who you party with; the corollary is be considerate to who you're partying with. Contact a DM in the terribly breaking cases (e.g. Monk/Paladin affected by out-of-area Pickstons which stop them from being a monk/paladin anymore).
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 09:49 AM |
Around here the saying is "If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas."
Excellent point. Be watchful of those you party with IG, just like in RL. Sure, Player A is a RL buddy of Player B. But if one plays LG and the other plays CE or NE, and the knowledge of this is IG, what in the world are they doing partied together? Surely LG now has fleas. ;)
Anyway, why is anyone partied with someone so far away? I've done it, so I'm not pointing fingers in that sense. I'm not sure it's totally IC to know what happened to someone outside your sight, though. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 11:29 AM |
Anyway, why is anyone partied with someone so far away? I've done it, so I'm not pointing fingers in that sense. I'm not sure it's totally IC to know what happened to someone outside your sight, though.
I agree 100% with this. |
I'm The Cult of Personality. |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 04:12 PM |
| the thing i keep hearing is to be carefull who you party with, so stayaway from anybody you think might be a bad person. i do not see any point if this is going to be a single player game. it is my wish to play a lawfull good char, thats why i made the char the way i did. if i am to be treated like a thief then i will become one, i see no reason not to start being rewarded for it. however i wouldnt be asking to be restored if i wanted to play a thief. |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 04:29 PM |
Barnas thinks that characters who are anal-retentive about staying absolutely lawful and pious would not wish to be traveling with theives anyway.
I know I don't expect many "Good" or "Lawful" characters to travel with Fri'el right now, unless they are somehow tricked by her/ don't see her doing anything untoward- the latter being unlikely.
-Barnas |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 04:38 PM |
| only prob with that is, he doesn't know we are rogues... we don't normally take him to rob people ya know :P |
My lamentable plight... I am calamity.
fire... burning....agony...
sultry shivers of a dark essence
why am i tortured with this nihilistic existence?
-Maddox |
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Re: Alignment modification
Posted: 29 Jan 2004 05:12 PM |
Yes that's true.
Though I'll stand by my point that if you leave party as soon as the first hit happens, and never party with the person again, you won't end up getting alignment shifted in a "meaningful" way.
-Barnas |
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