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XP-Leveling System
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
<!-- BBCode Start -->What I´m having in mind<!-- BBCode End -->
<BR> A system which (i) rewards in-character actions, role-play and discovery, and (ii) tailors the level-up process according to Class. For a sample ´rogue level up´ scheme see FAQ Part II.
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<BR> <!-- BBCode Start -->How I´m planning to do<!-- BBCode End -->
<BR> The question to address is 2-folded, to (i) reward for IC actions/RP/discovery, and (ii) customized level-up process.
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<BR> For (i) the solution is simple; BioWare released WitchWake which have a template rewarding script that we can easily customize for a multitude of occasion (see the news item).
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<BR> For (ii) the solution is less obvious. I´ve played with some remaking of ´trainers-system´. Some ideas are, instead of, for example, setting a "ALLOWLEVEL" to True when player talk to trainer and pay the gold, the player will obtain a particular item (from adventure or otherwise) (for example, MasterFighter -lvl. 10- Tattooing Kit from MisterFighterSuperior), which OnActivate will check for the user being level 9 fighter, and if true, return "ALLOWLEVEL" to True (and self-destructing in the process), sending a message to PC that he is free to level.
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<BR> On PC Leveling, the "ALLOWLEVEL" flag is once again set to false.
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<BR> On bogie leveling (levelling when "ALLOWLEVEL" False), the PC´s XP will be deducted to somewhere in between, in effect reducing a level (as we don´t have the tools to terminate a level-up).
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<BR> So far so good?
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<BR> <!-- BBCode Start -->What are the obstacles?<!-- BBCode End -->
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<BR> The obstacles are both technical and conceptual. It´s fine and dandy to arrange custom quests, such that a wizard would not be leveling the same way as a fighter would, but what to do with Multi-classed characters is something that stumped me.
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<BR> As well, while the system conveniently allows us to let only certain DM-mediated quests give out leveling requirements for lvl. 15 or above, it can be envisioned that someone can simply take 15 levels of something, and multiclass to others.
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<BR> Also, without elaborated, consuming scripting, I´m not sure we can make sure that a PC levels up in what he´s meant to level up in (with the MasterFighterTattooingKit he might well level up in Wizard, for which we have no choice). |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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XP-Leveling System
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
To be honest I think the amounts of XP etc. are more important to how exactly you level up.......Personally I think Lands of Lore offers too much XP for mere monster bashing.....I agree we should be more RP/Quest and tradeskill focused for XP reasons, but am (in my humble opinion) not too concerned about how they actually level up (trainers or whatever). If we get the XP system right, then we should prevent too many High levels walking about. The XP for the tougher monsters will be NOWHERE near the ones in LoL........the LoL Rangers have a challenge rating of about 80, our Mariliths and Ancient Dragons have ones of approx....20-25 (based on proper D&D stats with no ridiculous feats/spells unsuited to the creature). Hence no massive XP, believe me Higher Levels will find it VERY hard to come by XP and level (with lower levels it will be easier).
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<BR>Let us know your thoughts peeps....as this is one of the most important things to get right methinks.
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<BR>Chris
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<BR>I´m happy to go with the consensus.
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Vives Screenshots!
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XP-Leveling System
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
IMHO that simply flatten the leveling curves uniformly, and what I fear is it would induce <!-- BBCode Start -->more<!-- BBCode End --> power-whacking than what we (well, I) would like to see: instead of having a <!-- BBCode Start -->linear leveling line<!-- BBCode End --> (which, in my convictions is responsible for all the whack whack whack), we actually have a <!-- BBCode Start -->leveling landscape<!-- BBCode End --> which varies according to the individual. If you can see into my mental picture that´d be helpful, otherwise... in a way it´s the broader statement than point (ii) in my original message: ´tailor the level-up process according to Class.´ ) But again, if we (I, duh <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_confused.gif"> ) can´t implement it...
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<BR> ...well, I´ll keep trying <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_smile.gif">
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<BR> If I keep trying, how do you folks think should be the case for multi-classed characters? |
Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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XP-Leveling System
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
(This is Grim - my password´s refusing to come through)
<BR>I was pondering assorted ideas last night, and something interesting came to mind.
<BR>Rather than drastically lowering the XP per monster/quest, or finding freaky ways to level up, or assorted other "standard-mold" solutions for the leveling problem, why not turn 180 degrees and make it so the PLAYERS won´t want to level too soon?
<BR>This can be achieved in a multitude of ways, for example:
<BR>1) The skill cap is PER LEVEL rather than GENERAL. For example, the skill cap for level one could be 5 points, level 2 15, level 3 30, and so forth (Lvl*5 added each time. This generates a total of 550 points overall). I´m not sure how this is implemented scripting-wise (I´m not a code monkey <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_razz.gif">), but this GREATLY reflects realism insofar as you can´t just master a bunch of skills when you turn 40 (assuming a year per level and starting 20 years old on a human), you gradually learn them over time.
<BR>2) Certain advantages placed on lower level characters or certain disadvantages placed on higher level characters. These could include taxes and tolls, access to certain quests or locations, RP advantages (Greater evil powers won´t bother with a level 5 character, but a level 7 character´s in hot soup.. this is mostly relevant for DM events).
<BR>3) AGING. This is entirely missing from ALL NWN modules that I´ve ever been in. The timeframe is that characters NEVER age, and that´s silly. You don´t stay 17 forever. By inducing a magical age addition on each level, you add an RP factor that won´t make people rush to level up (This will only hit the true RPers, since powergamers don´t care if they´re 17 or 55).
<BR>4) When you do use quests for leveling up, make it so the quest will make the person completing it ENEMIES. As the levels go up, the player will accumulate a lot of enemies that will want them dead or worse.. enough to give anyone a pause before they rush to level (:
<BR>5) SCRAP the whole drop-quality-is-based-on-level system. That makes no sense. It never did. It encourages powergaming in the extreme and I hate it. Items should reflect the area or monster they came from, and nothing more. Kobolds don´t carry cloaks of protection +5, and dragons don´t keep around chests with 37 GPs and a malchite in them.
<BR>By implementing even two or three of these ideas, you keep people from rushing to level up without forcing them to go slow. They want to take the risk? They might get the reward.. but then, they might not <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_razz.gif">~
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XP-Leveling System
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
Good to hear from you Grim and nice ideas.
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<BR>Most of the xp will come from Quests, and with persistency, completing these quests will shift a PC´s factions about quite considerably. So, if you want to rise in a Guild and gan that xp, you might be asked to assassinate someone or something else rather unpleasant, that will mean you become a permanent target for a rival guild or faction etc.... Some of this has already been implemented..... Also if you come across certain creatures whilst wearing/wielding items made from their skin etc (Dragon armour/scales) then instead of getting a warm reception you will be attacked, so I guess whether you use these more "powerful" items....will also be a choice to make hehe. (I was thinking about the "Good" and "Evil" Dragons that might (or might not <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_wink.gif"> ) have a rather big role to play in the lands).
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<BR>So I think we´re thinking along similar lines here which is good.....higher levels means much greater risk and danger. Perhaps when you become more powerful you simply are not welcome in some villages etc..... or merchants become afraid and charge higher prices etc..... I´ll have a longer think and see if we can implement some of your other ideas.
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<BR>Re: the psw....it seems a few peeps are having troubles, but Lytton/Jeb is on the case and it should hopefully be sorted shortly
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<BR>Cheers
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<BR>Arathon
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Vives Screenshots!
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XP-Leveling System
Posted: 30 Jun 2003 12:37 AM |
(Later addemendum after I got the password)
<BR>I talked my ideas over with a friend and he mentioned that my suggestion for the skill cap would not work because anyone who wants to skill up in a hurry would be FORCED to powerlevel.
<BR>Therefor, my suggestion changes to the following:
<BR>At level 1, your skillcap is N (550?). When you reach level 2, your skillcap becomes (545+whatever skills you already have but no higher than 550). When you reach level 3, it becomes 535+whatever you have, but no higher than 550, and so forth as I mentioned in my earlier formula.
<BR>This allows people to craft in a hurry without forcing powerleveling and achieves the same purpose of limiting powerlevel if you later want to learn a craft. |
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