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Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 11:11 AM |
As per the discussion that was posted in the Shoutouts thread, I thought there were some good points being made that I just wanted to gather some opinions on. There are factors involved here involving AI and such that may need clarification because I don't honestly know how it works, so I can accept it if I'm off base here:
The lag was an important issue. It paralyzed all of us and nullified all actions we attempted to make...and apparently charging in and aggroing all of the monsters had a large effect in that. Good metagame point.
But the lag issues aside for the moment, is charging into a dark room whose enemy contents are basically unknown usually how most of us approach a mission/exploration/adventure? The fact that my character hasn't been able to move faster than a walk for many months now has had little impact on my exploration of an area (except when I decide retreat is the better part of valor) because when I go someplace new I always move slowly scanning the area for threats, including traps, first and deal with them one by one in order of urgency. If I realize I'm in too deep, I leave quietly. Even in areas I know well, I wait, target the enemies with missile weapons and let them come to me, or if they are archers, hit them once and get out of their line of sight so they have to engage in hand to hand around a corner; there is one area where I consistently used a bottleneck in the lair to keep from getting surrounded. That's one part of PnP DMing I've always enjoyed...allowing players who utilize the special skills that define their characters to succeed...or even using the environment in innovative ways to be successful. I realize the computer simulation has its limitations, but there has to be some viable problem-solving approach that might be more effective. How many unused magic items do we have in the bottom of our cougar bags that might have been effectively used carefully at a particular moment; how many single spells did we pop off that might have worked better strategically in conjunction with another spell a comrade has? Maybe I'm being naive and there wasn't really a better option given the nature of the foes.
Also, unfortunately, having the computer adjudicate the outcome limits our options severely. The computer won't respect a good idea. If we disguised Balthor as a gray dwarf, had the thieves sneak in behind his allowed access, and deliver killing blows to some key guards in the shadows, have the rest of the group storm in shortly after and threaten swift death to the remaining guards while quickly relieving them of their weapons; that would have been really cool, but I don't think the computer would have played along.
I guess what I'm saying is that in an event like last nights, I expect there has to be a better way of going about it, but on the flip side, some of the best ideas are limited by the platform, and what players are left with usually is how best to muscle past everything. That may stifle the urge toward creativity. |
T'mok Gurzi
Resident Gnoll Warlord
patron for the noble yet drink addled
Timik Gorozai the Mistake |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 11:50 AM |
is charging into a dark room whose enemy contents are basically unknown usually how most of us approach a mission/exploration/adventure?
In almost all of the large events I have either DMed, taken part in, or witnessed, I would say that it seems to be, if not the only tactic, the most favoured tactic.
The result is predictable. Everyone tries to act at the same time, the monsters are all acting at the same time, causing massive lag and total chaos. Coordination fails then everything goes to pot. The client programs fail to get their updates while the server continues processing - thus we experience lag spikes and "sudden death" followed quickly by a devestated party.
When dealing with small groups (1 to 3 players) who use stealth, this very rarely never happens as they tend to proceed much more slowly allowing things to happen under much better control of the players involved.
My preferred way to avoid this problem is to have everyone work together rather than run out in a mob. This means that someone must be appointed leader and they must give directions.
It'd be nice if we could all just run out and do our things, but mechanically, this will get you all killed piecemeal (actually, in RL combat, it would as well although it will not be because of lag).
The real secret to successful combat is combining strengths and covering weaknesses so that you can inflict maximum damage while receiving the least amount of punishment in return. Not only that, but effective use of the heavy artillary spell casters prevents spellcasters from "wasting" spells ineffectually.
How you do this depends entirely on the circumstances you face, the areas you are in and the resources you have available. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 02:51 PM |
My view on it is that lag will always be a problem no matter what you do.
Undoubtedly, taking things slowly will limit that handicap, like the sadist explained, but like he also said - it depeds on circumstances and everything else. However, I've not participated in a single large event that didn't come hand-in-hand with abnormal lag, even when combat wasn't involved. It's just how it is, regardless of the common phenomena of rushing heads first into battle, which while sometimes done due to roleplaying a character's behaviour, it happens plenty enough for whatever reasons in spite of the constant devastated party situation that follows.
Ah well, next time I'll just go with Greater Sanctuary like Salt :) |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 03:01 PM |
You can go slow. It can be done. But the party has to be organized. No organization and the Lag Monster of Chaos will eat you all
- Paul
PS: I counted 45 deaths among the PCs. That is, to my knowledge, a new record.
PPS: no dm was initially involved. that only happed later after the majority of deaths occured (high 30s +) |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 05:01 PM |
From a fun stand point, for me anyway, I think smaller parties are the way to go. After a couple big combat events tailing after Lucius Edmonds or a P&J tour I just don't do it anymore. It just gets too laggy for me, and my ancient computer can't handle all the graphics on the screen it seems.
I think Paul raises some good points. But i don't think I'd enjoy being restricted to one strategy that covers every big event.
That said I do enjoy the big role play events. And because of that I almost tagged along on this one.
But lately my most fun has been in parties of two or three. I could even see a party of four or five being a blast.
In my opinion I think these events would be better smaller. It would not be fair for Dm's to restrict the numbers involved, but I think it is fair game for players to get together a small group on their own and make a run at the durzagon. Certainly you don't want to restrict others from joining you, but somehow a balance needs to be reached.
And somebody has to finally defeat those subterranean slugs so we can move on to the next thing! |
Famous last words:
Mykal> it's my new wireless router.
* > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout)
Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m.....
* > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat) |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 05:31 PM |
I have mentioned this before, but in this case I believe it is relevant to repeat it. I have NEVER enjoyed large scale events like last nights, and last night was no exception. Johe went to the Halls only because he had a strong RP "duty" to be there. Was there a plan to stop the reinforcements? I guess not, but Johe was under the strong impression there was. Should someone have been in charge? Absolutely, and again it was Johe's mistaken impression that said leader would be Salt or possibly X. On an RP level it's very difficult to sell that someone like Lucifer ,(not attacking here just giving an RP reason for Johe's responses to Lucifer at the time, besides the fact Johe never much cared for Lucifer from the beginning), could just walk in after the strike force had been there for a long time and just say "This is how we're gonna do this", and everyone would just fall into line. All of that having been hung out to dry, let me get to my point.
I, like Henesua, have ALWAYS preferred smaller groups, and I am sure most of you do, the idea being that there CAN be RP during battle situations when dealing with fewer PC's. Add that to the idea that it would be easier on the game mechanics to have a smaller party in a zone, and that it would alleviate lag, and you have the idea that myself and James42 came up with over 2 years ago... When putting together these epic style battles, wouldn't it be possible for the DM's and the players to meet somewhere in the middle and plan an attack on a "spread out battle field" wherthere would be 2 or 3 "zones" each needing a group of 4 to 6 to take it out and secure it? Roles could even be split by level so that the level 10's that would rather not be disintegrated by the high level mobs right away and lay there watching the rest fight could be put in charge of something more along the lines they are capable of. I understand this may require more DM work, but from what I understand the halls were set up before hand and left to run for a large portion of the beginning of the raid. My question is would this help alleviate lag? I frankly am unsure, but I would guess it would.
*shrugs* tha's my piece. It WAS fun, kinda, just not really my style of fun I guess. |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 05:59 PM |
| *shrugs* It could've been much worse as far as I'm concerned, and I really don't have any complaints, it went pretty much as I expected it to for Dorian. That, however, is why I have to agree with Johe about splitting the roles between the low levellers and the epics (Really haven't seen much of an inbetween). The really bad part is that, every time the mobs respawned, I was actually about to mention something about reinforcements.... *grins* Oh well, Dorian's still alive! I had a good time at it. |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 06:11 PM |
I agree wholeheartedly with Johe. Large scale battles have never been my favourite. There's too much chaos and due to real life related issues (strain on the server and connections), it's only harder.
I guess another thing we should have done was to wait till a DM had posted in the thread that he or she would be there. Face it, the respawning of the durzagon and Atalan at the entrance was annoying and there was no RP reason for it to be so. We had secured that entrance at the start, but still they were back. As much as this can be said in a fantasy world, it stretches the imagination a bit too much (unless everyone and their cat knows teleportation of course, heh).
Spread out battles are great, but... you need to look from the point from the enemy as well. They had us far outnumbered. Even if the high level PCs engaged the tough ones, they still had enough forces to send to the frontline where the 'weaker' PCs are.
As I had to bail out before Lucifer joined, I never did go to the back of the halls to see if there was a tunnel there. If the halls hadn't been modified to this extent, then we had to pretend that it was there. The first part of our plan was always to take out that tunnel, but it never happened. It's a good explanation at least for the respawning inside the halls.
So... Who's up to attack the Durzagon mines with a frontal assault all spells blazing? Bring your summons! ;) |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 10:01 PM |
I never did send a PM to all DMs to include them in scheduling this event. So in effect I pulled an "ATTENTION DMS" and just assumed the DM team would take in what we were planning on the forums.
In my defense - I'm feeling a little defensive because its rude to take the DMs for granted - I figured that this battle was the way forward being offered to us by the DM team, and that they were on board. The thing was scheduled about 3-4 days in advance. I didn't try to confirm that someone was available to DM the event though.
Never even sent a tell to the DM channel, "hey anybody there?" That sure didn't help us any - basically created a scenario that we couldn't win. Sorry about that. I'll handle it better next time. |
"What are you talking about?"
"I'm talking about dying."
"What's that supposed to mean?"
"It means lying in the ground with dirt on your face and holding your breath forever."
-Burt Reynolds, "The End" |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 21 May 2007 11:33 PM |
Renter! Don't be hard on yourself. For one it is just a game. But second you made it happen. You brought the people together.
I appreciate all the gatherings that you have inspired. And I don't want you to stop. |
Famous last words:
Mykal> it's my new wireless router.
* > Mykal has quit (Ping timeout)
Vulpina> Hey!! IRC didn't boot m.....
* > Vulpina has quit (Exit: DarkMyst WebChat) |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 06:35 AM |
That's right, don't take it out on yourself Renter. I think we're all to blame in this case. ;)
And for what's worth, it may have been messy, but finally someone did something! After months and months of sitting on their rear ends, PCs took things into their own hands and slaughtered (themselves and) the enemy! Huzzah! |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 10:55 AM |
Renter! Don't be hard on yourself. For one it is just a game. But second you made it happen. You brought the people together.
I appreciate all the gatherings that you have inspired. And I don't want you to stop.
+1
Nope. You're not allowed to take any blame for the way the event turned out. And to support what Henesua said I've got a couple of PMs saved that demonstrate how significant your presence is to this community. --I guess this thread has slipped back into Shoutouts--
What I didn't say directly when I was discussing DM intervention and alternate solutions to the attack on Bregodim (because I didn't want it to be misunderstood and instead feel like I inadvertantly leveled the blame finger) is that the power of the interface, to put it bluntly, makes us all lazy. In most situations we expect the solution to always be combat, the DMs allow that expectation to flourish...AND (to put my statement in perspective) I have no idea how much work goes into generating different outcomes (e.g. a stinger waving a white flag, kidnapping a troglodyte to study their language or a Port Royale-Lynaeum Hobgoblin Thanksgiving). So, if this venue cannot match what can be done on a tabletop in terms of versatile outcomes, then we should expect more of the same approach to solutions...direct sledgehammer-the-wall conflicts. I think even clever combat strategy gets same-ole-same-ole in time and begins to slide especially when trying to join differing playstyles. I still think we should try, but I don't expect the program flexes enough to allow real innovation.
And to endorse what a couple other people said above, smaller is better, and level defined events would be awesome. But I'm not going to demand more work from a team whose only payment is a couple of "Good Jobs!" and some thumbs up. |
T'mok Gurzi
Resident Gnoll Warlord
patron for the noble yet drink addled
Timik Gorozai the Mistake |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 11:13 AM |
I mostly agree with Timik.
Real innovation, unfortunately, has to rely on DM intervention, since Mobs are mindless and will attack anything considered hostile to them, PCs included. Since we can't always rely on that intervention, combat is most times the only approach we can take. How much the interface allows is of course limited, but in situations like the former event, DM presence I think is absolutely required. (Don't take it the wrong way, Renter, you already did plenty and you're not to blame at all.)
With DMs playing on the other side of the PC vs. Mob table, a situation can be approached in a lot of versatile ways, even considering the limitations the game puts us in. What my thoughts on that matter I'll leave to myself or to another thread, but the possibility is out there.
I can't say I have a specific opinion on large vs. small teamed events. I don't mind either, and the only limitation I see in the former is lag, which without it could be just if not more enjoyable as a smaller team. I can enjoy both of them depending on the circumstances. What I do think badly of is limiting the number of players, which had never been done so far and I don't think should be done at all - everyone should have a chance to enjoy an event if they want to. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 11:18 AM |
| Argh, double-post. |
"What are you talking about?"
"I'm talking about dying."
"What's that supposed to mean?"
"It means lying in the ground with dirt on your face and holding your breath forever."
-Burt Reynolds, "The End" |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 11:18 AM |
Renter! Don't be hard on yourself. For one it is just a game. But second you made it happen. You brought the people together.
I appreciate all the gatherings that you have inspired. And I don't want you to stop.
+1
Nope. You're not allowed to take any blame for the way the event turned out. And to support what Henesua said I've got a couple of PMs saved that demonstrate how significant your presence is to this community. --I guess this thread has slipped back into Shoutouts--
Yikes! Don't worry, I've got this in perspective, but I'm also interested in getting all the facts out and not communicating w/ the DMs was of bigger consequence than lag IMO. So, the lesson is there.
I don't think it went all that badly. It was terrifying, yes... I completely lost hope, yes... But I get a thrill out of those situations. I like all kinds of battles, big and little. There's a tediousness to large-scale battles, and for some reason that logistical game is fun for me. |
"What are you talking about?"
"I'm talking about dying."
"What's that supposed to mean?"
"It means lying in the ground with dirt on your face and holding your breath forever."
-Burt Reynolds, "The End" |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 12:22 PM |
FWIW, there were three DMs who popped in and out to at least do something, such as spawn in some (some?!?!?) extra monsters and to move them around a bit (oh, how I *HATE* the "AI").
Some things, as mentioned, do require DM help. For example, the "collapsing" of the new entrances into the halls. Yes, we could have done that in the toolset, but rather than change the halls, we decided to leave it as is and "RP" it.
You would have "found" them if I had been there to tell you about them. As it is, we'll just say you didnt find them, hence all the reinforcements that showed up. (That's another of the DM responsibilities - to remove the respawns so the PCs don't get creamed on the way out)
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 12:46 PM |
I think we can conclude last event by nerfing Xaranthir, blaming PD, and making sure there's a DM next time. Still, not a bad event, all problems considered.
Don't forget to nerf PD. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 01:25 PM |
I repeat, since after all this nerfing I can't do anything else: finally people did something. Not the best of tactics, but hey something was done, right?
We only have to repeat this in the Undreath woods and the Gladden farmlands. Anyone up to it? |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 01:46 PM |
What I do think badly of is limiting the number of players, which had never been done so far and I don't think should be done at all - everyone should have a chance to enjoy an event if they want to.
Stated that way I agree. But myself and several other players spent a great deal of the time bleeding on the floor the whole time and that did cut into the enjoyment a bit. I was woefully underskilled to deal with anything that presented itself. I died in the great hall under a rain of arrows. Then was raised and was told to "get back" where I died again. Then was raised and tried to help returning party members with healing, but died when the front door 'reinforcements' came. After being raised again, I decided it was safest to travel with the rest of the group. When we were attacked again by some lesser gray dwarves, someone shouted, "They're sending in the chumps!" or something to that effect. The fight went something like this: I missed--he hit--I missed--he hit--I died--he hit me again. I'm stating this in a humorous manner because it kind of was, but you get my meaning. I did nothing but run around offering semi-witty commentary and insignificant observations...when mobile.
Maybe me and a few other people who were having a 'challenging' time of it could have secured the janitorial wing staffed by bugbears and an overbearing minotaur steward, including the sanitation department containing several gelatinous cubes. But please refer to my above statement concerning more work for the DM team. |
T'mok Gurzi
Resident Gnoll Warlord
patron for the noble yet drink addled
Timik Gorozai the Mistake |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 02:28 PM |
Well said Timik,
There was one "raid" that comes to mind that was very interesting, and possibly the most fun I've had playing a D&D type game on a computor instead of at a table.It kind of went along with the idea of splitting the party so there wouldn't be lag, AND so that players with differing specialties could get a chance to shine. We were all going into Valinor Castle to rescue Byron. The Beefy fighters and much needed clerics and artillary layed siege to the castle while trying to hold the city to buy the sneaky rogues and their bard friends time to slither into the castle and rescue the paladin, (who I don't think was a paladin at the time, or thought he wasn't but was ... but I digress), The two things I loved about this event was a) the splitting of the party. Nobody shines like a warrior, a cleric, or a mage/sorcerer/wizard, when it comes to all out, blood and guts, in yer face battle, and I as a rogue would never want to take that away from them, but it was real nice for us more slender folks to get a chance to show our stuff too.
b) When we made it to the dungeons we switched to IRC and played it old school. THAT, my friend, was in some ways even better than PnP because playing it on a chat board like that allowed a few advantages. That one yappy whiner that you sometimes run into in PnP games who won't shut up and disrupts the flow with his ,"My character turns his cloak inside out so the dark purple is showing and matches his boots" well on the boards he was just a line that you could ignore instead of trying to talk over Everyone got a say in what they were doing, the DM handled it great...(I forget who it was, I think it may have been Benny or PDW), and, again, the rogues got to do something other than clear traps and be a secondary target to hit after they came out of the shadows for a quick strike ;).
Don't limit numbers of folks allowed, never ever, that is like the evil spawn of forced roleplay, but it'd sure be fun to do something like that raid on Valinor once in a while. As I have eluded to before, unless Johe has a RP duty to be there, you're not likely to see the little fellow at these events, but anything like that raid would bring me out of thee woodwork right quick :) |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 02:43 PM |
Here's my thoughts. If I am mucking up T's thread I am sorries. Could things have gone more smoothly, probably. Could both the DM's and PC's handled better, yes. Are 10 of those 45 or so PC deaths mine, Oh Yeah!
BUT!!
Goddamn it a band of misfits who had never fought together before, a lot who down right hated each other, took on one of the toughest armies in all of Vives.
Outnumbered what?...5 to 1? 10 to 1? 20 to 1? Heck we were killing for over an hour straight.
We all went in together and we all walked out together. (Well I am assuming X just teleported out) No one had to respawn. No one was taken prisoner torturted and had all thier stuff taken away. No one will not be using there character for a week. I can't remember the last time when a DM was on and I actually walked away instead of running for my life.
This is the stuff of legends!!
We are freakin Heros!!
The Bards have something good to sing about!!
Things can be so dang deppressing around here. Its like useing your face to knock down that liveing room wall, because the baby is coming and your going to need the extra space. Oh No!! Who cares about your private me room! The room you go to cool off spend a little me time with Mr. computer. NOPE! Gotta make room so the little bastered can run around with his brother.
WE WON they lost! Right now some ugly little dark dwarf is trying to explain the massive screw up to his king. How a bunch of top worlders advanced into unknown territory and slaughtered hundreds of thier best. Obviously, stating there was an army of them not 12 or 13. And elite guards don't grow on trees mind you or from eggs or however the hell they reproduce.
I think its been so long since PC's actually won and maybe changed something for the good we forget what it feels like.
And I think we should take a little pride in that.
dang It!! |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 02:59 PM |
I think its been so long since PC's actually won and maybe changed something for the good we forget what it feels like.
And I think we should take a little pride in that.
dang It!!
+1
(And I think there was something in there that deserves congratulations...or maybe it's old news and I've just had my head in the sand) |
T'mok Gurzi
Resident Gnoll Warlord
patron for the noble yet drink addled
Timik Gorozai the Mistake |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 03:01 PM |
There was one "raid" that comes to mind that was very interesting, and possibly the most fun I've had playing a D&D type game on a computor instead of at a table.It kind of went along with the idea of splitting the party so there wouldn't be lag, AND so that players with differing specialties could get a chance to shine. We were all going into Valinor Castle to rescue Byron.
Dang, that was over two years ago.
I nearly melted down trying to handle that. There were three parties, not two (you didnt see the third one).
I had to go to IRC to handle it because it became impossible to do IG.
I will never handle multiple parties at the same time, alone, again.
This is the stuff of legends!!
We are freakin Heros!!
The Bards have something good to sing about!!
*lol* fortunately, the tales are told by the victors and fortunately there were no bards to see what really happened, so it was a flawless victory after all!
(of course, the PCs came pretty close to killing each other there for a moment..whee, what fun)
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 03:10 PM |
You did that by yerself?! WOW, but could be fun with more DM help I hope?I think IRC is a great place to do things that normally would be tough to accomplish with the in game mechanics. The fact that you did that by yourself nakes it even more impressive to me, and I will continue to sing the praises of that raid ;)
Speaking of singing, don't forget JJ is a closet bard ;)
"We are tha champions my freehend!!"
:P |
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Re: Battle royale
Posted: 22 May 2007 03:24 PM |
I have to agree completely with DSM-IV here. It may have been ugly, but we did it. Alton may have had to use 10 Res's on Ophie, and I'll openly admit that he used 3 on me, and no matter how gruesome it got, it got done. Remember I said "pretty much" when I told you about my expectations for Dorian? I thought that I'd be retiring him after this event, and he's only a lvl friggin' 13. I think he just might even have a crafting lvl higher than his character lvl!
Now.
Normally, I speak my piece, and I call it good. I said what I had to say earlier, and it should've been enough for me, but I gotta say, I'm not sure I like the way this thread is going. Everybody deserves their say, and I won't deny anyone a thing, but this is turning into a game of DM Pinata (don't know how to make an N with a tilde), and it's gotta stop. Stating an opinion is cool. Contructive criticism is an excellent tool for improvement. Driving it deeper through repetition is bashing. Remember, everyone, they're doing us a favor. I don't have much online RP experience, Vives is 1 of 4 severs I've played on, but it's already set my standard for a PW. You all gotta remember that the DM's are giving time that they could be doing something else, maybe even something more productive, to keep us all occupied and give us a good time. I've had my questions and complaints, I've had my gripes, and they've bent over backwards to accomodate me and make sure that I understand what I need to know. I think, ladies and gents, that it's time to forget the bad, count our blessings, and let this one go. Oh, and Phoenix? I'm in. |
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