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DMs: Snooty: Ideas on the asashi?
Posted: 24 Apr 2007 12:11 AM |
Sender: The Snooty Duchess
Receiver: pdwalker
Sent: 24/04/2007 3:35:38 AM
Received:
Subject: A long dissertation on Asashi
Message: I’m sending this PM to Chief and PDWalker. It’s a bit of a discussion about Emma and monks in general. I’d like some input before writing up her story and overlaying my spin on what it means to be a monk, lest the two of you have had vastly diffferent ideas as you played your characters.
When I’d first asked DMs about the Asashi schools some time back, I’d been left with the impression that much Asashi lore and philosophy was not developed, and that PCs have a certain latitude to put their own spin on things. The reply I received to a question on monk schools was as follows:
Asashi was more or less deliberately left open to interpretation. So as long as you are following the guidelines in that lore thread, in a way that works for you, everything is dandy.
Emma has probably been more a farmer’s daughter, Vilyavian, and wannabe paladin since that time, though with a gradual evolution away from religion and rural mores. For me, the tests involved in gaining immunity to mind control will constitute a very important part of her ongoing story and how she is played, as will a certain discussion of Asashi philosophy and teaching.
Given that both of you have played monks for a long time, I would rather bounce my ideas off you two than send a PM to all DMs. You each may have some ideas that informed your roleplay, and I’m curious as to whether they are similar to my own.
I spent a bit of time last week researching a few themes that I considered salient: martial arts, monastic orders, and a monastic order in fiction that I think encompasses a less ‘goody goody’ approach to the world than Buddhist and Christian ones, namely the Bene Gesserit in the Dune books.
From what I’ve experienced in-game, Asashi exists primarily to teach monks, not to house them, take part in the economy, or influence world events. Paul has already said Luther left Asashi because of its aloofness to weighty matters affecting the fate of the world. I also don’t see anyone at Asashi giving orders or making suggestions to Jessup.
Most of what I would like to look upon as philosophical underpinnings for Emma going forward (again, a gradual evolution) come from Therava Buddhism, a sect that seems a bit more agnostic than other Buddhist sects. I tried to moderate the generally ‘good’ bent of the sect, though, in recognition of the fact that Jessup is as much a monk as Emma and Luther. Enlightenment is not about watering flowers in heaven, but about mental discipline.
So…here is an overall philosophical underpinning for Emma, without further ado. I won’t be posting this, aside from little explanations here and there from Emma’s Sensai, and I may modify it if either of you have any suggestions or think something I’ve said really does diverge from what Asashi is suspposed to be.
1. Asashi’s primary purpose is to teach.
2. Each of the three main monk schools aim to guide their students toward ‘enlightenment’
Enlightenment takes the following path:
a. Stream enterers: Students at Asashi are expected to confront and defeat three evils to progress (arrogance, self-doubt, and blind faith). Only students that have conquered all three will be allowed to take the ‘Unified Test’.
b. Ascendant mortals: The three schools each have one representative on a group that administers a test to monks who have conquered the three evils above. If a monk can pass this test, which requires the monk to suppress the emotions of love and hate. (in Theravian Buddhism, it is lust and hate), he achieves the status of ascendant mortal. This, to me is glowing eyes and immunity to mind spells.
c. Something beyond that?: It doesn’t really need to enter into my thinking for game purposes, but completely abandoning arrogance, self-doubt, blind faith, love (lust), and hate, in the Theravian Buddhist doctrine, means that the monk escapes the reincarnation cycle. In D & D terms, it would probably mean that, on death, the character becomes a celestial, fiend, or whatever the neutral types are called.
3. Asashi teaches neither a good nor evil doctrine, merely that one should be rational and have a ‘long view’. Pedantry is frowned upon (making some of Emma’s actions not exactly shining examples of Asashi wisdom), whereas casuistry is embraced (the notion that the ends –do- justify the means, something I stole from the Bene Gesserit). My own interpretation, influenced by no outside doctrines, is that the ‘long view’, or over-riding ethical imperative, is the sustainable existence of intelligent life and the world itself.
4. As part of the path to enlightenment, a monk is expected to follow a code of conduct which in Buddhism is called the Noble Eightfold Path and is represented by the Dharmic Wheel. A lot of the matters contained therein are a bit too pristine to be inclusive of the alignment continuum, so my spin on them is to distil them to the following three precepts:
a. Wisdom: The monk should always consider whether he takes his actions within the broader context of his place in the ‘stream’. His actions should not be influenced by any of the five evils identified above.
b. Ethical conduct: The five commandments of an Asashi-trained monk are as follows:
i. Do not take a life without a reason for doing so.
ii. Do not steal for personal gain (point 3 above might over-ride)
iii. Avoid sexual misconduct (adultery, rape, sheep, etc.)
iv. Do not lie (point 3 above might over-ride)
v. Do not drink intoxicants or otherwise utilize mind-influencing substances.
c. Mental discipline: This is point 3 put into practice. The monk should make his decisions devoid of emotion, influenced only by reason. When confronted by a threat to existence, a monk should, in order of application:
i. make an effort to end the threat which has come;
ii. make an effort to prevent the threat which is to come;
iii. make an effort to bring about ‘acts of sustainment’ that have not yet come;
iv. make an effort to cultivate acts bringing about sustainability that have come.
Meditation is the preferred method of making decisions which constitute moral quandaries for the monk.
There are a few tenets of karate that I would apply to combat training, but I can’t see them being particularly controversial or worthy of passing them by you two. I may make passing reference to the priorities of kumite (fighting), which are eyes, footwork, spirit, and strength, and to the four sicknesses: fear, surprise, doubt, and confusion.
This has been a lot to write, and a lot for you two to read. I want to make a post about what Emma is required to go through to become a level 20 monk, and will adjust her roleplay accordingly (I already have been, to a certain extent). The major aspect, for me, is suppressing love and hate, and what follows along with that. I also presume the test that monks have to pass is the same regardless of school, a test administerd by a triumvirate composed of a master from each of the Serpent, Dragon, and Vulture schools.
So…any comments would be welcome. I don’t want to trample on what has come before, or create rules and tenets that you two don’t think make sense and never did for your characters. I like creating a story, and generally like to have a skeleton on which the flesh appears.
Cheers,
-Snooty |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Snooty: Ideas on the asashi?
Posted: 24 Apr 2007 12:26 AM |
Comments?
As for myself, it is too pacifist orientated.
My take on "monks" comes from a more traditional asian story telling/fantasy kind of monk.
A Monk in D&D is an appoximation of the many different kinds of martial artists that existed in both real life and in fantasty coming from eastern culture.
Some were religious, some would deny the gods. Some were good and some were pure evil. Some were crusaders for good - fighting evil to the death where it was found. Some were pacificts that walked softly and carried a big stick. Some were hell bent on proving they were the most powerful warrior of all time. Some of them saw their training as a path to enlightenment and some as a path to personal power and riches in their lifetime.
The only thing shared in common with all of these are mental/physical discipline that allowed the practicioner the ability to do incredible feats that are beyond the norm and (b) emphasis on some form or forms of fighting art that was designed to be used.
(If you ever get the chance to see on video or RL what the real shaolin monks can do right now, do so. The physical feats they can accomplish in real life are incredible - just imagine what they could do in a fantasy setting!)
So, in my mind, the Asashi is an apolitical entity that is somewhat bound up in its own internal struggles (very low key, very subtle). The asashi teaches the discipline, the mental and physical arts.
What monks/martial artists do with that training is up to them. It is hoped that the students will follow in the footsteps of their teachers to advance their own school of thought - but PCs being what they are, are the typical maverics that fall outside the norm. Essentially the will end up at odds with their teachers since they are not following their teachers exact followings. They have branched off.
Depending on which of the three schools they hail from, they may earn the enemity of their original school, in which case the school may seek revenge, or the school may say "the path is your own to follow"; it depends entirely on the teachers and their own personal goals.
Luther and Jessup very early on both fell outside the norm. Luther for his own chance to "do something" and Jessup for his chance to gain his own power. (nothing says "Oi! Listen Up!" than a good kick to the head).
Comments?
Chief, I'd be curious to hear your take, if any, you have had on Jessup's "monkness". |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Snooty: Ideas on the asashi?
Posted: 24 Apr 2007 01:25 AM |
Asashi’s primary purpose is to teach.
Yes.
Each of the three main monk schools aim to guide their students toward ‘enlightenment’
Also yes, in a general sense.
Students at Asashi are expected to confront and defeat three evils to progress
No. That sounds like Midor, not Asashi.
Ascendant mortals
No. See above. Way too lofty in thought/phrasing/thinking for Asashi. Again, doesn't sound like Asashi at all. Too... supremist.
completely abandoning arrogance, self-doubt, blind faith, love (lust), and hate
Doesn't sound like Asashi either. Asashi monks aren't Star Trek Vulcans. They actually like living, you know? That's the point. Balance. Not complete self-denial.
Asashi teaches neither a good nor evil doctrine
Yes. Asashi is absolutely neutral. It's the ultimate neutral ground and neutral way of thinking in V1.
As part of the path to enlightenment, a monk is expected to follow a code of conduct which in Buddhism is called the Noble Eightfold Path and is represented by the Dharmic Wheel.
Meh... now it's starting to get too granular. Asashi's strength is that, being the lone monk centre in V1, it is very open to interpretation. It should remain so.
If Asashi lore got more complicated than what's already in place now, I know I'd never want to play a Monk on Vives (or associate with them).
If Emma wants to impose those rules on herself, she may well do so, but I can't see them being imposed by Asashi.
For example, I think that there's equal room for monks who choose (self-imposed) self-denial, but also monks who may be, say, of a more Epicurean bent (I've always wanted to play an Epicurean Asashi monk based on Horace's poems... of course you can drink, but do it in moderation!)
Asashi is one of the more appealing RPG monk organisations I've seen because of its lack of stringent rules and its variety. It's interesting to see how one core goal (the quest for the perfect inner self through physical and mental discipline) can have so many permutations and interpretations. I'd hate to lose that. |
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Re: Snooty: Ideas on the asashi?
Posted: 24 Apr 2007 05:02 AM |
If Emma wants to impose those rules on herself, she may well do so, but I can't see them being imposed by Asashi.
Sounds like Robber Duchess/Snooty Barron should just "create" a not-very-well-known Sensei, who teaches these deviant paths/disciplines etc... that Emma choose to learn from after she had been at Asashi for a while.
Asashi is one of the more appealing RPG monk organisations I've seen because of its lack of stringent rules and its variety. It's interesting to see how one core goal (the quest for the perfect inner self through physical and mental discipline) can have so many permutations and interpretations. I'd hate to lose that.
~
Meh... now it's starting to get too granular. Asashi's strength is that, being the lone monk centre in V1, it is very open to interpretation. It should remain so.
Which raises the question, (and it's probably been addressed, but my memory sucks so I'm just asking again) how are monks going to be handled in V2? In a similar way? |
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time."
- Steven Wright |
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Re: Snooty: Ideas on the asashi?
Posted: 24 Apr 2007 12:34 PM |
There are different organisations.
Some have more freedom for interpretation than others. I'll be ranking these according to RP Difficulty as lore on them becomes developed (check out the PC Races Overview to see the RP Difficulty stuff in action).
See Monks article for (preliminary) details on V2 monks. |
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Re: Snooty: Ideas on the asashi?
Posted: 06 May 2007 01:37 PM |
*bump*
I've replied. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Snooty: Ideas on the asashi?
Posted: 15 Jul 2013 04:29 PM |
Should we make this one public?
When ideas submitted by players don’t exactly fit the existing lore, but are still plausible to use for an individual character, we prefer to keep it tailored to that individual instead of integrating it into existing lore. This gives players the opportunity to be unique and stand out from “the norm”. So while this submitted lore didn’t fit Asashi, it was a very good fit for Emma as an individual and let the character put their own spin on what makes a Vives monk. Would be pretty boring if every monk was the same! I mean, look at all the vastly different weirdo monks we had on the server! |
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Re: Snooty: Ideas on the asashi?
Posted: 15 Jul 2013 05:48 PM |
| moved. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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