|
Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 02:20 AM |
Clandestine meetings happen for a reason. They are RPed for IG necessity, usually because of threat of PC reprisal, and most often in places that can't - for whatever reason - provide security against anyone with high scores in Hide and MS.
But if there's a group in some obscure location, off the beaten path or tucked away ina corner of a building that isn't usually frequented, then you can pretty much bet they are there for privacy.
This happens a lot: a group of would-be conspirators finds a little tucked-away spot to whisper amidst one another. Some SD or higher level rogue or someone otherwise in the spy-game uses their Player's Stone, sees a group of people somewhere by themselves, and then makes their way in that groups direction to eavesdrop. There's no IC reason for knowing how that group came to be there, who is there, or that there would even be anyone in that place at that time at all. And yet every time there's a group meeting that isn't behind six locked doors and underground, someone's hiding out, listening.
It's crap. It's metagming. It's not what the Player's Stone is for. Players gather for meetings for RP purposes and to create stories and plotlines. The least that could be done is to respect that. If you're a spy and you aren't hired to go find a specific person, or stake out a specific place then the odds are you aren't going to know the meeting is taking place AT ALL. I understand accidentals stumblings do happen in the more public places, but if you've got no cause to BE somewhere, hiding out and not interacting, then just don't be there. It's not just rude, it ruins RP and frustrates stories.
Keep it legit, okay? The Player's Stone is for finding RP potential, not spontaneous spying opportunities. |
"I've got a sword and it's a good one, but all the bleedin' thing can do is keep someone alive, listen. A song can keep someone immortal!" - Cohen the Barbarian |
|
  |
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 02:26 AM |
You can hide yourself with the Player's Stone, so when people use it, they don't know where you are.
If you're really, REALLY paranoid, you could always get a mage tower. Balthor does that a lot. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 02:34 AM |
That's true. Or, you CAN choose not to use the player stone for OOC voyeurism. To the pure of heart all things are pure - it honestly didn't occur to me that I should be hiding from other -players- just because I was RPing hiding from characters. Seems to me that the folks who are metagaming should be the ones to alter their behavior.
-VK |
"You know, a gong. Large, flat object that you hit when you want things. Sort of like a waiter, but less portable."
-Radra |
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 02:46 AM |
The reason the function exists on the object is for this reason.
You can't stop it from happening, but you can make it more difficult. To expect everyone else to change their behaviour when all you have to do is push two buttons (I keep it hotkeyed) is unfair.
On the other hand, it's true. When people are hiding generally far away from public places, and you check the player's stone and see where people are, you're pretty much inviting trouble to say "Oh man, I'm gonna go over there." It's always been my rule of thumb that you can run after people if they're in a generally high traffic area, which means cities or towns, and one to three transitions away from cities or towns (it's a judgement call).
On the other other hand, by not taking precautions, you run the risk. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 03:27 AM |
Edit:
Here's a simple rule of thumb.
If you followed people somewhere, and then they start to have a secret type conversation, it's fair to spy on them.
If you did not follow them, and used any OOC means whatsoever to find them, and you come across them having a secretish conversation, you can't spy on them
-Barnas
That's pretty much it, right there. |
True solace is finding none, which is to say, it is everywhere.
-Gretel Ehrlich |
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 04:26 AM |
I usually counter-metagame.
"My friends! It seems we've been set upon!"
"Uhh Steve, there's no one else here...."
"Yes there is! I can sense it! Let us make haste to the closet! There we will be secure"
"Uhh, Steve, how are we going to fit the entire Council of knights in the barkeep closet!"
"Tetris my friend! Come! Let us be off!" |
The Legacy Saga |
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 04:50 AM |
I often times use the stone to find where people are so I can just "happen to run into them totally by accident what a coincidence that we both happened to find ourselves on the far west coast today!" Not for spying, and yes sometimes it's a little odd that both of us would happen by here, but we are playing a multiplayer game, and it's more fun when you play with other people. I sort of thought that's what the stone was for.
Now, since my charcter doesn't tend to sneak around people usually see me coming (except Cedrych, I always sneak up on him, running gag and all.) so I hope no one has ever considered me as spying after using the stone. Maybe some of these other people are using it in the same fashion, just trying to find other players to enjoy the game with.
Perhaps it would be good to institute a sort of common courtesy, if you are using the stone to find other people to play with, send a tell to one of the group members before you go to find them and ask if they mind you bumping into them? Something like that would alleviate the concern that the stone is being abused by those who aren't.
Just a suggestion.
Also, even if you hide yourself with the players stone, if someone is going to meta-game and find you to spy on, they can use the players currently IG link on the front of the website, now that's really cheating. Maybe it can be fixed? |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 05:21 AM |
Also, even if you hide yourself with the players stone, if someone is going to meta-game and find you to spy on, they can use the players currently IG link on the front of the website, now that's really cheating. Maybe it can be fixed?
Alas, making changes to the website is pretty tricky - PDW can tell you all about it.
If you're standing somewhere fairly well-frequented, or are anywhere in Port Royale, you're fair game.
If you actually are somewhere people would not find you, yes, that is metagaming. "Oh I just happened to walk along to this remote corner of this remote area that no one ever visits... fancy running into some people having a private chat here." BZZZT! Wrong.
If you really want to secure a conversation, there are inventive mundane ways of doing so that don't require a sky-high listen/spot skill. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 05:27 AM |
On another Roleplaying server I frequented, there were only a few people online at certain times of the day, so all we did was have everyone online Party up for some reason. So, in essence, we had our own version of the Player's Information Stone.
Eventually we effected a little rule:
Players -should- always ask any large gathering if anyone had a problem with them "happening upon" any event. It wasn't always followed, but...Eh, you can lead a horse to water 'n all that.
I rarely use the Player's Information Stone; if I bump into someone, then I bump into them. If I'm all alone in Buckshire or Port Royale, I might hit it just to see if there's someone nearby that my character would run into and, typically, have a conversation with.
Conversely, I use the tool to see if anyone's around when I go on my occasional foray into the rougher parts of Vives. A lesson learned from barging in on a group already planning on heading into the same area. :S
Ugh. Bit of a tangent. Anyways, I was going to suggest that maybe there should be restrictions placed on the Player's Stone. Uses per day, perhaps? Restrict the number of people it shows, or how the areas that it displays?
|
WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCONVENIENCE |
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 05:43 AM |
If you actually are somewhere people would not find you, yes, that is metagaming. "Oh I just happened to walk along to this remote corner of this remote area that no one ever visits... fancy running into some people having a private chat here." BZZZT! Wrong.
I'd honestly never considered it wrong as long as you weren't using it for some sort of IC gain through OOC means, like the spying mentioned before. But if that's the way it is then my apologies for the misunderstanding, I'll try to correct that bit of behavior. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 06:03 AM |
I'd honestly never considered it wrong as long as you weren't using it for some sort of IC gain through OOC means, like the spying mentioned before. But if that's the way it is then my apologies for the misunderstanding, I'll try to correct that bit of behavior.
Well, depends on the reason.
If you are up to something sneaky and spying, then it is pretty metagamey.
If you are actually seeking to interact in some way, always helps to send a Tell first and ask if you're going to be interrupting anything, but that's fine. |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 06:52 AM |
As in anything else, common sense is required. I play a sneaky character or two and there are times when I'd love to RP with folks IG rather than mooch around alone. But...
(And I'd have to say this applies to non-sneaky approaches as well)
I always look at where the characters are and then think about it from the point of view of my character, is it somewhere she'd be likely to go? If she did happen to walk past would she have a reason for being in that area?
If you are in a group that wishes to have or is having a private convo, again - common sense - Standing in the middle of PR, outside the inn in Buckshire, or for that matter inside it in a common area - really isn't the place to do it, such places are commonly frequented areas. Main thoroughfares if you like.
Spotting two or three people in an out of the way area, or in an inside area where you wouldn't normally go and then charging off to lurk somewhere spying on them simply isn't on. Does your character have any way of knowing they are in some out of the way corner in that area or even in that area at all? If they don't, then don't do it - simple enough.
If on the other hand you are simple minded enough to hold a private or secret conversation somewhere that you -know- is well frequented then frankly you have no cause for complaint, whether the other player is spying or just wandering up for some RP. |
ELVES! |
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 09:32 AM |
Here's a simple rule of thumb.
If you followed people somewhere, and then they start to have a secret type conversation, it's fair to spy on them.
If you did not follow them, and used any OOC means whatsoever to find them, and you come across them having a secretish conversation, you can't spy on them
-Barnas |
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 10:06 AM |
Another thing to consider, and this is for those that are being spied upon... if you meet up in a populated place say... Port Royale, and in your conversations happen to mention anything of your plans, expect that to be heard, expect the information brokers of the port to sell that information to any and all.
Itchy Rollins: "Well now that you mention it *clink as coin changes hands* There was this group of fancy dressed adventurer types, quite an assortment guv'nor, they was heading to... now where was it? Me memory ain't what it used to be *clink as more coin changes hands* Oh yeah Maldovia it was.. they was heading to maldovia."
So I'm not saying that this gives an RP justification to those who'd use OOC means to spy on others, but if you arrange a secret meeting out in the open (and I've seen this done many a time), even if it takes place in the wilds, there are those IG who could find out about it. |
"Mistakes have been made, others will be blamed..." |
|
|
|
|
Re: Metagamed Spying.
Posted: 22 Sep 2006 12:19 PM |
Here's a simple rule of thumb.
If you followed people somewhere, and then they start to have a secret type conversation, it's fair to spy on them.
If you did not follow them, and used any OOC means whatsoever to find them, and you come across them having a secretish conversation, you can't spy on them
-Barnas
That's what I was trying to say, only I was too tired and pissed to be nicer about it. |
"I've got a sword and it's a good one, but all the bleedin' thing can do is keep someone alive, listen. A song can keep someone immortal!" - Cohen the Barbarian |
|
|
|