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DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 06 Feb 2006 09:11 PM |
Sender: Mykal
Receiver: pdwalker
Sent: 07/02/2006 5:30:42 AM
Received:
Subject: Silence in Paws
Message: Tarik. Or at least someone that wants us to think Tarik did it. Yet another way for Vidus to prove that he can protect and save Midor.
Or is it?
Dispatch word to Lillian. Usual encoding. Get in touch with Blanche, and get the Arm of Mercy down to Paws immediatly. Provide comfort and aid to the surviving children.
Gather as many resources as can muster and procure as many ressurection scrolls as we can. Get our priests down there to assist.
Make certain to scout the area properly for the Midoran presence. If proper paladins are on the scene (and not RS) then try to engage diplomaticly. Work as a team, rather then against one another, for the good of the people in Paws.
I want this done yesterday, as in, get on it now. Top priority.
-Byron Lorian. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
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"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
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<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 06 Feb 2006 09:48 PM |
also... (removed from teh macha and tarik thread)
Now that Paws has been slaughtered, Tarik is provoking a genocidal war between Midor and Ferein/Elves in general.
Midor would have to respond.
How do we resolve this?
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
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"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
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<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 06 Feb 2006 09:49 PM |
(posted by Barnas)
Now that Paws has been slaughtered, Tarik is provoking a genocidal war between Midor and Ferein/Elves in general.
Which isn't the idea at all, nooo...
*shrugs slightly*
Midor's welcome to respond. Ultimately, there's not much they can do- other than get testy with Ferein, and maybe get very, very harsh on Elves inside the city. The biggest thing is between Midor and Ferein- and it's not too unreasonable for Midor to accept that the Ferein Elves and Tarik followers are seperate entities- even though they probably won't.
Tarik's forces are too decentralized to really "fight" or go to war with, in the traditional sense. They have villages, but humans would take weeks to reach them through the forests, and be picked off on the way. Their gathering places towards the end of the forest could be attacked, but by the time armored forces had arrived, the Elves would simply have left.
If it was as simple as sending forces to attack, I'm fairly certain Tarik's Hunters would have been wiped out eons ago by Aros/Elberethians. They're been surviving against an "Organized society" for thousands of years... so... yeah.
Anything you want to do internally is cool, I guess. The problem is that, externally, there's no much you can do. If the PCs choose a warlike path, they'll be able to utterly destroy a few Hunters in Tarik's heart- but that's it. They can't find more. Because they're everywhere, and no where, and mostly individuals.
-Barnas |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
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<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 06 Feb 2006 09:49 PM |
Hi Benny,
I'll discuss this with you tonight. Sorry, would have done it sooner, but you were asleep.
Nothing has been decided yet because it still needs your input (given that it is Ferein that is key to resolving the whole thing "peacefully"). I don't want Ferein looking weak, but coming from a position of strength.
Anyway, have a read and think about possible solutions that would make you happy and we can discuss tonight.
- Paul
[10:17] <Barnas> Just wondering if you wanted to bounce any ideas off of me RE: Tarik, since re-reading my post, it's virtually incoherent. :P
[10:17] <pdwalker|Zzz> reading it first
[10:18] * Barnas nods
[10:19] <pdwalker|Zzz> The question is, what to do.
[10:19] <pdwalker|Zzz> Ferein is weak, still very weak after the destruction of the inner city
[10:19] * Barnas nods
[10:19] <Barnas> I think it gives Midorans an excuse to get more LE, more defensive...
[10:20] <pdwalker|Zzz> Midor could bring a force that would be capable of destroying the rest of ferein, even if there were no elves who stick around (edit: I was referring to the city, not the elves would could easily fade off into the woods)
[10:20] <Barnas> But I /do/ think it's too flimsy an excuse to actually go to war with.
[10:20] <pdwalker|Zzz> not really.
[10:20] <pdwalker|Zzz> its genocide.
[10:20] <pdwalker|Zzz> war for less has been done many times
[10:20] <Barnas> It's common lore that Tarik Elves and Ferein Elves have been at war for milennia.
[10:20] <pdwalker|Zzz> do you think the midorans care about such "fine" distinctions?
[10:20] <Barnas> Vidus could sell that it's a just attack to the RS, perhaps.
[10:21] <pdwalker|Zzz> I'll talk to Benny, but there may be a diplomatic way out
[10:21] <Barnas> Actually, yeah. I just can't see that big of a split being ignored.
[10:21] <pdwalker|Zzz> you kidding?
[10:21] <Barnas> Maybe by the fanatics.
[10:21] <pdwalker|Zzz> never underestimate fanatics
[10:21] <Barnas> RS, priests, most loyal citiziens.
[10:21] <pdwalker|Zzz> it was ferein elves who murdered citizens
[10:21] <pdwalker|Zzz> if was ferein who provided sanctuary to enemies of Midor
[10:22] <Barnas> But it clearly wasn't. That's the problem. I just don't know if that lie could be sold.
[10:22] <pdwalker|Zzz> do you really think the righeous would see a different?
[10:22] <Barnas> Nope.
[10:22] <pdwalker|Zzz> exactly...
[10:22] <pdwalker|Zzz> but..it does provide an out
[10:22] <Barnas> But the Righteous Swords alone couldn't destroy Ferein.
[10:22] <pdwalker|Zzz> because it is a distunction
[10:22] * Barnas nods
[10:22] <Barnas> The first thing that came into my head...
[10:22] <pdwalker|Zzz> Ferein is weak, and would have trouble standing against an army
[10:22] <Barnas> Is first off, Midor clamps down.
[10:23] <pdwalker|Zzz> perhaps Midor wouldnt be able to do it
[10:23] <Barnas> It'd be a mess.
[10:23] <pdwalker|Zzz> but fereins other enemies certainly could afterwards.
[10:23] <pdwalker|Zzz> Ferein has more than Midor to think about
[10:23] <Barnas> Which is maybe exactly what Tarik wants? ;)
[10:23] <pdwalker|Zzz> there ya go
[10:23] <Barnas> I'm going with the assumption that /we/ as a DM team don't want that.
[10:23] <pdwalker|Zzz> so now the question becomes - how does Ferein skillfully navigate the diplomatic waters?
[10:23] <Barnas> Hmm.
[10:24] <pdwalker|Zzz> we dont
[10:24] <Barnas> Well...
[10:24] <Barnas> I think it can be very messy for a month, or so.
[10:24] <Barnas> Maybe build up to war.
[10:24] <Barnas> BUT...
[10:24] <pdwalker|Zzz> no, if it builds up, it will be war
[10:24] <Barnas> Tarik's followers kill the Princess at her coronation, inside of a month.
[10:24] <pdwalker|Zzz> because Midor cannot afford to backdown
[10:24] <pdwalker|Zzz> ooo...
[10:24] <pdwalker|Zzz> that reminds me
[10:24] <Barnas> Hmm?
[10:24] <pdwalker|Zzz> here is what I was thinking..
[10:25] <pdwalker|Zzz> One issue between Ferein/Midor is the issue with Ferein harbouring criminals
[10:25] * Barnas nods
[10:25] <pdwalker|Zzz> What if Ferein, by chance, captured a few of the tarik followers who were involved in the paws attack
[10:25] <pdwalker|Zzz> and ferein does two things
[10:26] <pdwalker|Zzz> 1/ send an unarmed party of healers to Paws (with ambassadors, of course)
[10:26] <pdwalker|Zzz> 2/ bring the guilty along with them
[10:26] * Barnas nods
[10:26] <pdwalker|Zzz> now... the only problem with this is the sanctity the elves place on elvish life
[10:26] <Barnas> Also, how would they capture the attackers?
[10:27] <Barnas> The lore I've whipped up...
[10:27] <pdwalker|Zzz> but, they might have to choose between murderers, and a genocidal war
[10:27] <Barnas> Is that it was an initation ceremony, of course.
[10:27] <Barnas> *of sorts.
[10:27] <pdwalker|Zzz> well, good question and a point to be resolved.
[10:27] <pdwalker|Zzz> but, how else to you step it down betwen Ferein and Midor
[10:27] <Barnas> Where a group of new hunters- including Ana- each kill one citizen.
[10:27] <pdwalker|Zzz> without Midor losing face?
[10:27] <Barnas> Well, Midor doesn't *have* to step it up.
[10:27] <pdwalker|Zzz> they will
[10:27] <pdwalker|Zzz> they cannot do anything but
[10:27] <Barnas> They can secure themselves within, without going to war over it.
[10:27] <pdwalker|Zzz> they cannot
[10:27] <pdwalker|Zzz> its genocide now
[10:28] <Barnas> Why's it genocide?
[10:28] <Barnas> That's kind of a narrow angle on things.
[10:28] <pdwalker|Zzz> elves brazenly coming into Midor territority and slaughtering humans for sport?
[10:28] <Barnas> If the Elven side of things has to bend over backwards, twist and turn to create some kind of solution.
[10:28] <pdwalker|Zzz> thats just it B, the RS are *very narrow*
[10:28] <Barnas> Why does the Midor side have to be absolutely set? That's all I'm saying.
[10:29] <pdwalker|Zzz> I'm open to suggestions
[10:29] <Barnas> If we're going strict and pure IC, Tarik Elves hide, don't get found, let the war happen, then take over Ferein. :P
[10:29] <pdwalker|Zzz> exactly..and Ferein will realize this pretty quickly
[10:29] * Barnas nods
[10:29] <pdwalker|Zzz> the problem is, how do they now diffuse the anger of Midor?
[10:30] <Barnas> They can easily enough capture one or two of the Hunters themselves, and execute them.
[10:30] <pdwalker|Zzz> diffusing doesnt mean eliminating.
[10:30] <Barnas> I mean, they're all n00bs. Except Ana... lvl 1-2.
[10:30] <pdwalker|Zzz> it'd be better if they brought them to Paws
[10:30] * Barnas nods
[10:30] <pdwalker|Zzz> where the newly risen could identify them
[10:30] <pdwalker|Zzz> Midor would still be angry at "Ferein", but would no longer have the justification for war
[10:30] <pdwalker|Zzz> as their story checks out
[10:31] * Barnas nods
[10:31] <pdwalker|Zzz> Midorans will was done
[10:31] <pdwalker|Zzz> Ferein handed over enemies - with promises of more if caught (as if!)
[10:31] <Barnas> I suppose that works. Capture one of them.
[10:31] <pdwalker|Zzz> make it two or 3
[10:31] <pdwalker|Zzz> the stupid ones
[10:31] * Barnas nods
[10:31] <pdwalker|Zzz> not suitable for tariks followers obviously
[10:31] <Barnas> Alright, so 2-3 weak stupid Hunters get caught.
[10:32] <Barnas> Well, that's the whole /point/ of the ritual. The strong survive, the weak don't.
[10:32] <pdwalker|Zzz> see? everyones happy.. (need to talk to Benny first though)
[10:32] <Barnas> I'd also like to wait and see what the PCs do.
[10:32] <Barnas> Conn, being the loudest voice so far, has decided to lead a group and attack Tarik's followers.
[10:32] <pdwalker|Zzz> Tarik gets the stong ones, Ferein diffuses the anger, Midor saves face and no war.
[10:32] <pdwalker|Zzz> *nods*
[10:33] <Barnas> Which is utterly retarded- who's he planning on attacking?
[10:33] <pdwalker|Zzz> heh
[10:33] <Barnas> Just wander into the Sylvan forest with his axe and keep walking until he sees an Elf? :P
[10:33] <pdwalker|Zzz> just have one elf with his harry him on the road to Tariks heart
[10:33] <pdwalker|Zzz> one arrow here, one arrow there.
[10:33] * Barnas nods
[10:33] <Barnas> That's the big thing. I imagine there being about 500-1000 Tarik followers in the world, total.
[10:33] <pdwalker|Zzz> call it a test.,...how long can the hunter keepthe prey alive?
[10:34] <Barnas> That's not many Elves in a few hundred/thousand square miles of deep forest.
[10:34] <pdwalker|Zzz> it only takes one elf to get the point across.
[10:34] * Barnas nods
[10:34] <pdwalker|Zzz> we are the shadows
[10:34] <Barnas> Yeah. That's the plan.
[10:34] <pdwalker|Zzz> no need to kill any players
[10:34] <Barnas> If there isn't much lag, that'd be a pretty atmospheric event.
[10:34] <pdwalker|Zzz> just an arrow and drift off
[10:35] <Barnas> I try to abstain from all player killing these days. *wry grin*
[10:35] <pdwalker|Zzz> circle around and repeat.
[10:35] <pdwalker|Zzz> you might have to change the plans depending on who goes
[10:35] * Barnas nods
[10:35] <pdwalker|Zzz> but you could attack from teh rear at teh edge of perception
[10:35] <pdwalker|Zzz> then bolt
[10:35] <Barnas> If it's a huge event, it'll be laggy, and one won't work.
[10:35] <pdwalker|Zzz> yeah..
[10:35] <pdwalker|Zzz> well, tell you what
[10:35] <pdwalker|Zzz> if it is a huge event
[10:35] <Barnas> That's what we did last time they went. It didn't work.
[10:35] <pdwalker|Zzz> prespawn some generic critters
[10:35] <pdwalker|Zzz> and no elves
[10:35] <Barnas> Too many PCs, too much lag, they just died before we could call them off.
[10:35] * Barnas nods
[10:36] <Barnas> Yeah.
[10:36] <Barnas> "No hunters here."
[10:36] <pdwalker|Zzz> then let them get to the end and find..nothing
[10:36] <Barnas> And the best bit of it all is Macha blaming herself.
[10:36] <Barnas> Har.
[10:36] <Barnas> Players. So self centered.
[10:36] <pdwalker|Zzz> aye
[10:36] <Barnas> But, yeah. If Benny's cool with it, that works.
[10:36] <pdwalker|Zzz> k
[10:36] <pdwalker|Zzz> will post this log
[10:36] <Barnas> It might actually fit in well with Camthalion's desertion.
[10:37] <Barnas> "WE'RE GIVING ELVES OVER TO HUMANS NOW?"
[10:37] <pdwalker|Zzz> yeah..."kowtowing to midorans!"
[10:37] <pdwalker|Zzz> and...and...
[10:37] <pdwalker|Zzz> it adds to the assassination of the princess for giving the followers over to Midor
[10:37] <pdwalker|Zzz> see?
[10:37] * Barnas nods
[10:38] <Barnas> I just hope the players find a way to get involved.
[10:38] <pdwalker|Zzz> hmm...
[10:38] <Barnas> And not just "Let's go kill them. Revenge."
[10:38] <Barnas> Hmm.
[10:38] <Barnas> Events which can happen...
[10:38] <Barnas> A vidus speech?
[10:38] <pdwalker|Zzz> let Benny have a read and we can see where the players can fit in.
[10:38] * Barnas nods
[10:38] <pdwalker|Zzz> but sit on it for now |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 07 Feb 2006 02:52 AM |
Midor's welcome to respond. Ultimately, there's not much they can do- other than get testy with Ferein, and maybe get very, very harsh on Elves inside the city.
It's elves, so finding it hard to stay awake long enough to write this... :0)
But seriously, isnt the above the perfect time to do something about the nonsensical elven bowsmith in the middle of Midor?
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 07 Feb 2006 03:00 AM |
| I like the paradox he creates. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 07 Feb 2006 03:03 AM |
I'd like seeing him hung up and devoured slowly by fire ants... *nods*
And not just cos he is an elf. Seriously though, surely he would be a target now? Or at the very least a back story created to explain why not.
Sol chased an elf out of Midor recently who had just been in the bowsmiths, would be nice to know what to say to explain why that sole elf IS welcome. Just creates confusion in my mind, and Sol say's it's...untidy! *shudders*
Sean |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 07 Feb 2006 03:38 AM |
I'm with Uncle Paul. It's very, very entertaining watching PCs puzzle over why he's still in Midor.
It's like the whole thing of keeping Paladins and not disbanding the Order (yet) and not making priests wear red (yet). Midor still needs to maintain the facade. Doesn't hurt to keep these things around at the moment. |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 07 Feb 2006 05:13 AM |
| I'd prefer it if his conversation showed that he is a Midoran sympathiser, or at least that he was pretending to be, and tries to smuggle messages out (for instance) with any elves who do come into the shop & try to speak with him. Would be good if he warned them to get out of Midor too, for their own safety. |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 07 Feb 2006 06:07 AM |
*wonders what he's woken up to*
Ok, first thoughts:
1. Midor could bring a force that would be capable of destroying the rest of ferein, even if there were no elves who stick around (edit: I was referring to the city, not the elves would could easily fade off into the woods)
Ferein is weak, and would have trouble standing against an army
We could argue that point, Ferein isn't as weak as is commonly thought, it's mentioned elsewhere (somewhere during the Sickening saga I think) that while there was a fairly hefty loss of life when the city was destroyed militarily it didn't have too great an effect. Ferein has been patrolling, and will continue to patrol the Slyvian, Mystic, Latonei and maintain a presence and will continue to do so.
One of the things I spoke about last week, and to an extent hinted at in my post on the Macha and Tarik thread, is that there will come a time when good entities work as advertised.
Ferein is aware of what happened, Elvalia travelled through Paws yesterday, has seen the village and the bodies. She is no mug and will be more than aware of why it's taken place.
2. Ferein handed over enemies - with promises of more if caught (as if!)
Won't happen. Even the least xenophobic in Ferein would balk at that, forget Camthalion. One of the core aspects of Arosian beliefs is that Tarik followers, Atalan, whatever, they are -all- elves and treated as such with respect. The Arosians still form a majority within Ferein, last thing they would do is act as snatch squads for Midor, hand elves over to humans? Nope.
(Incidentally the harbouring criminals issue here is a completely separate one, if as I assume we're speaking about Legolas he is in just as much trouble with ferein as he is with Midor, Ferein has proof that it was him who carried it out, there were witnesses, Elvalia among them, who heard him ranting before he headed off to Midor, she and others have also been told by witnesses that he was seen doing it/boasting about it after. If Legolas -does- ever show his face in feren again, and let's face it it's unlikely, his visit won't be pleasant).
3. Conn, being the loudest voice so far, has decided to lead a group and attack Tarik's followers
Let him, he tried travelling through there a few weeks ago mistakenly thinking no DM was around, two deaths and half a dozen elves later he gave up.
Which obviously leaves us with trying to figure out what Ferein -would- do as opposed to wouldn't.
a) Patrols around the aforementioned areas will be stepped up with immediate effect, and increased presence in same and a more agressive approach. Protecting by passively sitting by and watching isn't an option any more, if you want to protect against something you root out the problem. Very uneasy cold war situation around Ferein's borders in that direction.
Warnings to all to be wary in their travels around the outlying areas, Ferein will be more than aware the Hunt is on, has known despite Tarik and Macha's protestations to the contrary that it was never off.
b) As far as Paws is concerned, Ferein would offer and send healers/druids without hesitation. Would seem to me to be the likliest option. At the same time pointing out to Midor the realities of the situation. Sorry, but even the most narrow-mided of folks aren't blind to the obvious... would Ferein really have wiped out an entire village using spears?
As B said, it is common knowledge that Ferein and Tarik's followers have been at war for years, it's comon knowledge that his followers use spears, it's common knowledge that Ferein historically adopts a wait and see approach. Let's assume for a moment that Vidus did want to persist with the view that Ferein was to blame. Why would they do it now? Since the battle in Icy Vale and the withdrawal of the RS Ferein has absolutely no reason to attack Midor, didn't attack when Midoran troops -were- in Icy Vale, why would they suddenly seek to react now? At a time when to outside perception at least they are weaker? Doesn't really wash.
Just a few first thoughts anyway. |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 07 Feb 2006 06:45 AM |
Operation: Covert Aid
((Aka Novus Aristi reaction))
Okay, I have consulted Lillian and she reckons that the best thing the NA can do is go around and organise peeps around Vives to provide healing supplies (and anything else I can think of that will be handy) to the people of Paws.
Will probably do this in the following ways:
1. Contact 7 Sisters, say they will do it under their name instead of as the NA (for obvious purposes... Midor would reject anything from the NA)
2a. Similar to how it's happened in recent times for disasters (think tsunamis and hurricanes in recent times), will then (under the banner of the 7 Sisters) organise for donations to Paws to be dropped off to specific places so they can be delivered to Paws. I'm thinking:
- Order of the Seven Sisters
- Ye Hole In Da Ground
- Icy Vale Barracks
- Ferein, uh, Temple Grounds... I guess?
- Mirghul Rangers Lodge
2b. This will be done by posters in public places. And will probably have a few agents around the place going to places like Mrs Miggins, Brandibuck Bakery, Swiftfoot Hall, Brandibuck Apothecary, Ferein, etc to ask for anything they can give.
2c. Will be clear on the poster and in messages from agents that these are the only places to drop things off to, and that any agent that asks for anything up-front is probably a fraud. Only drop things off to those places.
3a. Simultaneously, some of their ranger type peeps (or suitably covert peeps) will sneak into Paws Woods. Poked Uncle Paul, looks like the Midorans will prioritise and raise Humans first. Can probably get some of their ranger peeps in (or suitable PC allies if we have them) to grab two corpses in particular and haul them off to Paws Coast to be raised:
- Kusin
- Fabius
... We can't grab too many of the others because the RS might notice, so that might have to wait until the RS stop bringing in corpses to raise and ignore Paws Woods once more (by then I guess it'll be too late, but I think they'd probably end up nabbing another 6 or so nameless fictional peeps out of however many non-Humans would've been in Paws... a very low percentage, but better than nothing)
3b. Can then utilise those two for transport needs (at least, in the south).
3c. In addition, with regards to transport/logistics:
- Contact dockmaster in Port Royale, ask if any ships can be arranged to sail all this stuff to Paws directly
- Test mileage and capabilities of Fabius' flying machine once and for all (it can actually lift quite a bit and go a fairly long way, quite quickly!)
((Will do IC post along those lines on the public thread, poking specific peeps for help and broadcasting the request for donations. And also have the 7 Sisters poke Midor and offer to do this thing for them.)) |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 07 Feb 2006 06:56 AM |
Ferein, uh, Temple Grounds... I guess?
See above Ficcy, Ferein would send their own folks |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 07 Feb 2006 07:01 AM |
Whoops!
This is what I get for taking so long to write posts that other peeps have already posted. |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 07:37 AM |
I'm a little lost here.
Have we decided how we're going to press ahead with this, because I've heard/seen nothing either here or in IRC. Think we need to come to some agreement about how we proceed apart from Ficcy's Aristi red cross effort.
Thinking about things after yesterday's post, from Ferein's point of view two things would happen immediately.
1. Increased wariness/aggressiveness along borders with Tarikian lands.
2. Druids/healers sent to Paws unarmed to assist as best they might.
I have a problem with the handing over of the culprits aspect, and not just because of the reasons I pointed out earlier, How would Ferein get their hands on these people in the first place or know even that they had the right ones? |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 09:52 AM |
How would Ferein get their hands on these people in the first place or know even that they had the right ones?
The massacre was commited by new recruits, and Ana'Estasia. The average level was 1-2. They also recieved no help in returning to Tarik's lands- it's all a part from the hunt.
It's entirely concievable- or even likely- that a minority- 1 or 2- would be caught, because they're incompetant. Maybe bump into Ferein Elves, and gloat about what they've done.
The competant ones amongst them would never be caught. But the incompetant ones surely would be. That's part of the point. :)
-Barnas |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 10:03 AM |
Part of the point or not B, it's simply not something Ferein would do, even assuming they didn't shoot first and ask questions after. If that was the case, public viewing of the bodies -maybe- and even that's stretching it a bit.
If we're assuming thet Ferein somehow got word within hours of it happening, again doubtful, then yeah, capture is a possibility. You then enter the realms of whether they would be handed over.
As far as it being needed to push Camthalion over the edge, that's going to happen anyway once he discovers the Princess's heritage, he's at breaking point already, it won't take much.
A mission by healers/druids is not a problem at all, no great shakes there. |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 10:41 AM |
I'm a little lost here.
Have we decided how we're going to press ahead with this, because I've heard/seen nothing either here or in IRC. Think we need to come to some agreement about how we proceed apart from Ficcy's Aristi red cross effort.
Thinking about things after yesterday's post, from Ferein's point of view two things would happen immediately.
1. Increased wariness/aggressiveness along borders with Tarikian lands.
2. Druids/healers sent to Paws unarmed to assist as best they might.
I have a problem with the handing over of the culprits aspect, and not just because of the reasons I pointed out earlier, How would Ferein get their hands on these people in the first place or know even that they had the right ones?
Sorry Benny, I've been busy with work and just recently came up for air.
No, outside of the immediate responses from the Midorans and the NA, nothing has been decided, only suggestions made which I gather you are not happy with (which is why they are only suggestions, not decisions marked in stone - hence no reason to be upset by anything that has not been decided yet).
One of the great frictions between Ferein and Midor is Ferein's insistance of providing sanctuary to known Murderers ("elvish life important, yadda, yadda, yadda"), especially when those murderers are elves and especially when those elvish murderers specialize in humans.
The long lives of elves make them an object of envy to the shorter lived humans - the elves reserved nature, their sense of "superiority" over humans, their stretched sense of time - what you get, when fanned just a little, is a hatred of the elves. Seething, Boiling, Red Hot Hatred. (Naruth would love this)
The problem Vidus/Midoran have is in keeping an enemy...you have to keep things stoked up, but you cannot let the conflaguration burn too hot, or it escapes their control entirely. What was done in Paws is a tipping point - which way the match falls depends on what happens next. One way, and it is a genocidal war that not even Midoran could stop - who cares of the relative strength and weakness of both sides because this would be a war to the knife and wouldn't stop until there wasnt enough left of one side to continue the fight. It's madness and a madness on a large scale. And once that is done, other enemies of Ferein could move in - Tarik, Orcs? Trolls? Giants?
If something happens to reduce the heat of the situation, then things get under control again - barely perhaps, and certainly a lot of more resentment will be directed towards the elves. However if it is contained within the walls of Midor (where it belongs) it doesnt matter.
So the question is, what would be an appropriate response?
If Ferein was able to capture some of the murderers and turn them over to Midor justice that would be a big bucket of water. However, Ferein's "no kill no matter how bad, how corrupt, how evil, how murderous" policy could soundly prevent that. (And tarik keeps a couple of followers who were weak and stupid to get caught, but given a second chance and some time could become a lot more dangerous - assuming the Tarik followers don't off them himself).
(personally, I can respect Ferein's beliefs even if I wouldnt agree with them)
Sending the unarmed druids over to aid in the healing is a small bucket of water. Who in their right mind would send healers over to a place where you slaughtered people? It'd be madness, so mad that most would have to admit that there is something to their story - those willing to listen, that is.
The druid/healing thing (elberthians?) would be a great thing to RP in front of a bunch of PCs if it can be arranged. It would make for a nice tense situation that could make the PCs think that violence by the RS is about to happen (but wouldnt, see last point on the madness of it all).
The RS could point to the bodies they "were unable" to raise and let the Druids do their stuff (outside of paws, so thats ok).
Now, is there anything else that could be done?
Ferein could *promise* to hunt down the perpatrators who did this vile act. Doesnt mean they will keep their word and empty promises cost nothing to one who isnt lawful, but does have the effect of taking fuel from the fire. (and by the time anyone has realized that the promises are empty, the anger is past)
Any other suggestions?
Remember, all it is at this point is suggestions. Nothing has been decided. Nothing (beyond the immediate RS response) has been put IG.
So, comments?
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 11:19 AM |
No, outside of the immediate responses from the Midorans and the NA, nothing has been decided, only suggestions made which I gather you are not happy with (which is why they are only suggestions, not decisions marked in stone - hence no reason to be upset by anything that has not been decided yet).
First off, Paul, wasn't getting upset at all, just wanting some resolution on this so that I/we know where we're going.
Nor is it the case that I'm unhappy with the suggestions, just that in my eyes they aren't workable, at least to the extent of handing over culprits/bodies.
The long lives of elves make them an object of envy to the shorter lived humans - the elves reserved nature, their sense of "superiority" over humans, their stretched sense of time - what you get, when fanned just a little, is a hatred of the elves. Seething, Boiling, Red Hot Hatred. (Naruth would love this)
The problem Vidus/Midoran have is in keeping an enemy...you have to keep things stoked up, but you cannot let the conflaguration burn too hot, or it escapes their control entirely. What was done in Paws is a tipping point - which way the match falls depends on what happens next. One way, and it is a genocidal war that not even Midoran could stop - who cares of the relative strength and weakness of both sides because this would be a war to the knife and wouldn't stop until there wasnt enough left of one side to continue the fight. It's madness and a madness on a large scale. And once that is done, other enemies of Ferein could move in - Tarik, Orcs? Trolls? Giants?
Absolutely, you won't get any argument from me on Vidus' motives, Midor's reaction isn't the problem here.
To an extent this is because of the way Ferein/Aros has been handled in the past, which is a completely different issue, and one I want to address soon but has no bearing here other than a historical sense.
no kill no matter how bad, how corrupt, how evil, how murderous
It's not a matter of that, with one notable exception that's happened in the past, and will doubtless arise in the future, Ferein does and will kill Tarik elves if they are discovered, problem is here is that there is obviously a distinction between PC and NPC followers due to the PvP rules. The point here is that it is what happens to those elves after they are killed, as far as the Arosian church is concerned (and please don't think I agree with it because personally it drives me up the wall) 'we're all one big happy family' i.e. all elves, so a dead Tarikian is treated with as much respect as a dead Arosian/Elberethian would be. In essence that's the crux of the problem, doesn't matter what level the culprits were, or whether they were taken alive or killed trying to get back to Tarik central, Ferein isn't going to hand them over for execution knowing that they aren't likely to be afforded that respect after their 'presumed' execution.
So, as I said before, handing them over either dead or alive is extremely unlikely.
Ferein could *promise* to hunt down the perpatrators who did this vile act. Doesnt mean they will keep their word and empty promises cost nothing to one who isnt lawful, but does have the effect of taking fuel from the fire. (and by the time anyone has realized that the promises are empty, the anger is past)
*wry grin* Being non-lawful doesn't necesarily mean promises are empty, except maybe in the eyes of the lawful.
Yeah, it's an option. Leaving aside the misgivings outlined above, 'We are the enemies of these people as much as anyone, perhaps more so. After all it is -us- who have been at war with them for centuries.' A promise to find and deliver them costs nothing and as you say at least calms the situation - if believed.
Maybe that together with the druids/healers (and no, there is no reason why they would -have- to be Elberethian other than raising of course, no restriction on an Arosian cleric healing humans, so a mixture would work better). Agree also that it would be something that would be very cool to play out IG.
So, if we go on the basis of handling the healing/raising together with a promise to track down and deliver the culprits is Ferein's response, next question would be how to handle it.
Can post to that effect obviously, but maybe better and again more interesting to play out the delivery of the message IG too, a bunch of unarmed druids/clerics showing up in Midor with the leader bearing a message for Vidus before moving on to Paws might be interesting. |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 11:25 AM |
two quick comments
Ferein isn't going to hand them over for execution knowing that they aren't likely to be afforded that respect after their 'presumed' execution.
If that were the only objection, if Ferein demanded the bodies (assuming they were found guilty, and identified by the residents of paws and executed), I think the Midorans would have no cause for complaint to do so, or even to let the Ferein arrange their own trial and execution? (with suitable Midoran witnesses). Perhaps a ferein thing, done in Paws? (the paws bit is important to the midorans... imagine if the ferein elves declared them all innocent of the charges...eep!)
a bunch of unarmed druids/clerics showing up in Midor with the leader bearing a message for Vidus before moving on to Paws might be interesting.
brave elves those. I would have suggested paws first :)
Lets see what we can arrange IG.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 11:31 AM |
If that were the only objection, if Ferein demanded the bodies (assuming they were found guilty, and identified by the residents of paws and executed), I think the Midorans would have no cause for complaint to do so
Would work for me too
brave elves those. I would have suggested paws first :)
My suggestion was going to be Elmirie and Liana, with maybe two or three NPC druids along, Elmirie and Liana between them would have the wattage to do any raising/healing necessary, and would be of sufficient stature to show that Ferein meant business. |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 11:31 AM |
oo, oo!
further thoughts.
if it was done as a ferein thing done in Paws done by the ferein elves, witnessed by the midorans (ferein claims the right due to the ancient war), Vidus would have no choice but to accept (because things would get out of control otherwise).
This would serve the purpose of a big bucket of water on the fire... in fact, it would backfire against Vidus because it would put too much water on the fire he's had going.
It leaves him without an "enemy" until he can build it back up, or find another.
hee hee... |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 11:38 AM |
Right, then my suggestion would be that firstly obviously we need to leak out IG somehow what is going to happen, that Ferein will be dealing with the situation.
Once that's done and we can be certain we have PC witnesses, depends really how you want to handle it, obviously if the elves are turning up with prisoners in tow they will be armed, guards at least.
Trial can be handled, I would suggest Liana presiding, Elmirie being TN has rather blurred views on good/evil.
Elmirie and Liana could then handle the victims, and maybe go on to Midor once all had been restored, or would that be rubbing V's nose in it too much? |
ELVES! |
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 12:06 PM |
Heh... it would and there is nothing he could do about it.
In fact, do the elvish trial in Midor. No way could he disagree and thats what would really tick him off - and he'd have smile the whole time. |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 12:10 PM |
A post...
1 post, from B..on one of the elves escaping paws after the deed, then being captured.
1 from Benny as the decision is made to send the healers once they have learned from the elf what has happened..perhaps their discussion about what to do..fears of war? need to show strength..Camthelion getting even more annoyed at what they are even thinking of contemplating...
From there... we can either announce a date when teh procession arrives (first at paws? then midor?) or wait to see what happens
the a post from me on the intelligence being reported to vidus...
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: DMs: Silence in Paws
Posted: 08 Feb 2006 12:18 PM |
| *nods* Works for me, though I would suggest the capture of maybe two or three. Paws then Midor definitely |
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