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Spellcasting XP system changes Nov'05
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 03:11 AM |
Hi All,
Just to give you a heads up on a recent change that will impact spellcasters. This is a result of a long discussion among the DM's (and then a long wait while they waited for me to get off my a$ an implement it)
1/ The spell XP system only awarded XP when a caster was in combat or outside of combat, but no more then once every couple of minutes. It was felt that this system overly penalized RP'ing spell casters because they only really got their XP from combat.
The reason for this system was that in the past, some spellcasters abused the system by loading up on all their spells, and then casting them all in quick succession to gain the XP from the spells as an attempt to level quickly. This was considered an abuse and this is why that XP gain cap was put in place.
This has now been changed back to the way it was. Spell casters will gain XP from every spell cast regardless of whether they are in combat or not.
2/ Residual Spell casting XP and Spell casting XP awards have been modified to match that of how the combat XP works. It is part of making all the XP award systems the same (diminishing XP down to only awarding residual XP). Some of the older casters will see a slight improvement in their XP from spells for a couple of castings until it settles down to residual XP. Enjoy it and dont worry about it.
The residual XP for pure spell casters might be a little bit more than they were previously getting. We will be monitoring this to see that it does not overbalance the spell casters and make them progress too quickly.
===
Here's the catch.
1/ The old system of reduced/limited XP progression is still there. If we catch you abusing the spell casting XP system, specifically casting all your spells at an inoffensive target, resting and doing it again, your player (not character, but player) will be tagged as a Spell XP Abuser and you will forever left on the timed system.
Trust me, you dont want this. In the long term you will lose out.
Also, we have a record of all spells that are cast by players over time. Should you feel smarter than the person who coded the logging system then I will correct you on that score. You will be caught. You will be penalized. There will be no appeal. There will be no second chance.
Please don't do it.
2/ Vives has spell tracking code to keep track of what spells you had memorized and which of them you had cast so that if you logged out with no spells, you would not log in with a full set of spells.
Unfortunately, the 1.64 update broke the bioware functions that made it possible to work and I have not had the chance to find a work around or fix yet.
This means that you can abuse the spell xp system casting all your spells, logging out, logging in with a full set memorized without resting and cast all your spells again.
Again, this behaviour is readily apparent from our logs. If you are caught doing it (and you will be caught; see above) you will be marked as a Spell XP Abuser and stronger sanctions may be taking depending on how the DM's view this particular abuse (very negatively, I might add).
Please don't do it.
If you going to log out, rest first.
If you crash (it happens, cannot be helped), remember what spells you cast and then "rest" when you are "out", even though you have spells left because of hte relog.
We will try to get the system fixed as soon as possible to prevent the temptation of abusing it
Thank you for your consideration.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 06:40 AM |
| Uh, how will this look for spellcasters who specifically cast about (lemme think, planar binding, mage armour, resist elements, stoneskin, lesser mind blank, greater magic weapon, keen edge, flame weapon, shadow shield...) around 16 or so spells BEFORE charging into battle? |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 06:45 AM |
| Also, should it count to get your spells back from logging off if you stay logged off a full RT eight hours? |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 06:59 AM |
It is fine to cast power ups before going into battle.
And we know that's going to happen, so we will take it into account when looking at the logs.
If you stay logged off for a full 8hrs then we will be able to see that in the logs and we will assume that in that time your character has rested and regained all spells.
thanks
Sol |
- Solitaire, Wizard
- Ilyana Fiirhaart, High Priestess of Naruth |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 07:02 AM |
Just to be clear, as with all things we are not going to be fascist with this. Its just the system has been abused before, so pd wanted to make sure people know the consequences of doing so. It is -very- easy to tell apart an abuse from genuine play. Someone emptying their spellbook, resting and doing it again is very different from someone casting every buff they know and then running off on their adventures.
Best thing is to cast spells when you need to, forget about the xp, and you will never have a problem.
Cheers,
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 07:58 AM |
| Thanks! |
My lamentable plight... I am calamity.
fire... burning....agony...
sultry shivers of a dark essence
why am i tortured with this nihilistic existence?
-Maddox |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 08:40 AM |
| Ok so I have just started playing a low level mage, so if I practice new spells that I have learnt, this would not be looked on as spell XP abuse, as from an RP standpoint my mage would not cast a spell unless he knew exactly what it does. However I should not do this more than maybe once or twice? Just looking for some guidelines really. |
"Mistakes have been made, others will be blamed..." |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 08:42 AM |
A mage learns what a spell does when they're learning the spell from a scroll or runes. That's the whole point. Casting a spell at nothing at all is /exactly/ the abuse which caused the system to be changed in the first place.
-Barnas |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 09:02 AM |
Mages experiment, sure. But they experiment in valid ways. In the same way as a warrior learns little from swinging a sword at empty air, a mage learns little from casting into space.
Basically adhere to the line...cast spells appropriately, not for xp gain, and you will be fine. Nobody is going to penalise a novice mage for emptying his spellbook to survive an encounter with a ferocious badger. But do it on a signpost and it is being done just to gain xp.
This change was debated at vast length by the dm team. It has been implemented because we trust the vast majority of the player base not to abuse it. We dont want to ever have to police it. But -if- someone is seen casting spells purely for xp gain it sticks out like a huge neon light, both in the database and when we are IG as DM's. If anyone is silly enough to do it, there will be no discussion, they will simply find the new system stops working for them permanently and they have to use the old xp system...that to be fair most current mages had to struggle through and is manageable.
Cast appropriately. Cast offensive spells at hostile creatures. Cast all your buffs when going somewhere dangerous...not just for a shopping trip before you log off. Hey, some mages are paranoid...but not so much they would normally cast every buff they had before popping into the four winds inn for a chat.
Sure we can all make up rp reasons why we just had to cast every spell we had at that vicious looking doorway. But just be sensible...realise the new system has been put in as a mark of trust, dont abuse it and you will benefit from it. That simple. *smiles gently*
Cheers,
Sirac |
'The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.' - Richard Bach, Illusions. |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 09:16 AM |
A mage learns what a spell does when they're learning the spell from a scroll or runes. That's the whole point. Casting a spell at nothing at all is /exactly/ the abuse which caused the system to be changed in the first place.
I am playing a new mage, and I will cast the spells once or twice before combat to know how and to get a feel of their area of effect.
Sure, a spell like magic missle is no problem since it autotargets; but a spell like fireball with a large area of effect, I might cast once or twice before I have first used it in order to get a feel for where to place the spell in combat.
After all, I don't want to blast my companions or myself.
But, emptying your spellbook at nothing is obvious.
- Paul
(I accidently almost killed another player with flame strike because I did not realize it would hurt friendlies; I am much more cautious about these things now. I know of others who killed themselves with nasty death spells because they were in the area of effect - testing once or twice with these kinds of magics is not out of line) |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 09:23 AM |
Fri'el once killed Dias and Loli with an implosion because I pressed the wrong button. I had it quickslotted next to "Cure light wounds". :P
-Barnas |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 09:26 AM |
I accidently almost killed another player with flame strike because I did not realize it would hurt friendlies
Hmm... the player hasn't forgotten either, nor the time you wiped out a certain cleric with your hound archon
Not that you're careless or anything *grins* |
Elvalia - Chosen of Aros
Elrith Mellin
Perin - 'Cleric (an' drewid) o' Elbreff' Weddin's an' pies a speciarality
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 10:04 AM |
OK so perhaps I didn't explain myself well in my last post, but the short of it is that I have never played a wizard in NWN, so rather than bring fire and death to myself and anyone I am with, by accident , would I be allowed to use the arena area of the players lounge to practice in? I'm thinking that there would be no XP award for spells cast there (am I right?). This way I could in fact RP the knowledge that my learning a spell would give me IG, which OOC I don't actually have. |
"Mistakes have been made, others will be blamed..." |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 10:13 AM |
The ooc arena is a good place to practice, and to bash the crap out of others you invite there. that is what is is for.
I need to check to see what happens when you cast spells in there, just to make sure that everything is peachy.
Let me get back to you on that.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 10:14 AM |
| Thanks :) |
"Mistakes have been made, others will be blamed..." |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 12:52 PM |
The "Why the Hell can't I practice my spells, rest, and do it again" argument is something that I am very, VERY familiar with.
Don't bother.
The reason the system was changed in the first place is BECAUSE of me (I got to level 12 in three days). I was a master at abusing the system. I got a suspension for it.
Try and pretend it works this way. You don't learn how to cast "Blindness/Deafness" by deafening a CHAIR. You don't learn anything from casting spells that do not act to their maximum potential, or at the very least you don't cast spells that don't have a specific purpose. Usually when Balthor learns a new spell (extremely rare these days, I've moved back to spells I've just never used) he spends the next hour or two "experimenting" with his spell. Usually if they're non-lethal, he tests them on people, and gets results, and if not, he tests it on combat, on something he thinks would get the most effect (Undeath to Death on mummies and other higher-level undead). These are perfect examples of a mage "practicing his spells" and not abusing the system and doing BOTH in a very legitimate and role-played way. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 19 Nov 2004 01:01 PM |
Thanks for sharing that.
(no Rob, I was not being sarcastic. I mean it. I knew about what happened as it came up in the discussion as to why not reimplement the system, but it was not for me to discuss publically) |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Spell Casting XP abuse
Posted: 03 Jan 2005 01:15 AM |
*bump*
A spellcaster was observed recently abusing the spell casting XP system.
This is a reminder to you all to not do it.
Those who do, in defiance of the rules, will recieve a permanent punishment of rate limited spell casting XP gains.
If you have any questions, please let me know.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 03 Jan 2005 03:48 AM |
Fri'el once killed Dias and Loli with an implosion because I pressed the wrong button. I had it quickslotted next to "Cure light wounds". :P
-Barnas
I remember that you baka! Thanks for that one! ;P *grumbles something about silly clerics* |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 03 Jan 2005 04:36 AM |
| but, but..., she didn't mean it! |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 03 Jan 2005 04:58 AM |
Look! It's Dias! He has been hiding in this spellcasting thread all along! Omg we thought we lost you!
That's what you get when mastering that mini-me spell.
Rul |
Why can't I PM myself?
Don't iron out the Irony. |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 03 Jan 2005 05:19 AM |
Look! It's Dias! He has been hiding in this spellcasting thread all along! Omg we fought we lost you!
That's what you get when mastering that mini-me spell.
Rul
Hello hello!
I must say that once again I feel the fires of Vives stirring in me. ;)
I think I'll join again soonish. I need to repay Fri'el for that implosion after all. :P |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 03 Jan 2005 06:11 AM |
You can never repay Fri'el!
She is too sweet. And innocent.
-Barnas |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 27 Jan 2005 05:38 AM |
Nobody is going to penalise a novice mage for emptying his spellbook to survive an encounter with a ferocious badger. But do it on a signpost and it is being done just to gain xp.
*Considers casting Invisibility on the Sign of No Return in Mirghul Forest*
...Nah, only an evil person would do that. |
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Re: Changes to the Spell Casting XP system in v2-49-2
Posted: 27 Jan 2005 06:12 AM |
Nobody is going to penalise a novice mage for emptying his spellbook to survive an encounter with a ferocious badger. But do it on a signpost and it is being done just to gain xp.
*Considers casting Invisibility on the Sign of No Return in Mirghul Forest*
...Nah, only an evil person would do that.
Hmm... I wonder if that is even possible? *runs off to try* |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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