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Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 15 Mar 2004 07:05 PM |
There once -was- a Land called Vive that had a very realistic and balanced economy. Where items had a value that was'nt numbered in -Ks- merchant did'nt buy endless number of items at top price. They used to determine the price of items depending on rarity the more of a single item they had the less they paid for it, and when an item was sought after and sold real fast the merchant would rise their price to meet the demand. [[ See "Economy of scales" for explanations on who prices are determined in a normal market ]]
This Basic Principle was taken into account when the persistent merchant were in use but when they were switched to non-persistancy the demand became infinite since merchant would be wiped clean at each reset and their gold restored, in addition they no longer observed the Economy of scales principle so they would always pay premium price for mass produced items. Because of this the possibility of making millions of worthless gp was introduced in vives and screwed the economy.
This is my view of what happened and my understanding comes from 4 years of study in economics. I would like to hear comments and suggestions before I make any :)
GreenWhisker IronWeaver
"Economy of scales" Basic principle of economics. The price varies according to supply and demand. If demand increase and supply does'nt the price will Rise until the people who are willing to pay the High price are equal in numbers to the actual supply. Thus creating a balance between Supply and Demand.
"these explanation are a little scketchy but to truly explain it I would needs Graphs to demonstrate the effects" |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 15 Mar 2004 08:01 PM |
The economy of Vives, and its persistant merchants were two things that attracted me when I first came to the land...I was very sad to see the persistant merchants go.
I have no idea how to fix the economy. I can barely balance my checkbook (lol), but I hope the persistancy returns. |
-Narenia
Main PC: Dina Islme |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 15 Mar 2004 08:22 PM |
| Er, forgive me if I'm wrong, but sure you mean 'economies of scale'? Isn't that how average unit cost falls as output increase? You seem to be talking about price determination. |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 15 Mar 2004 09:08 PM |
| It was Malagard's doing. He first poisoned the minds of the merchants, and then finally drove them insane. By destroying the economy he weakened morale and is causing normally decent people to turn to evil as a way of life. Thus evil is on the rise in Vives. His second act was to destroy the transportation system. Divide and conquer. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 15 Mar 2004 10:51 PM |
| It was a good place then it wasnt. My thought is perhaps the original mission-statement should be revisited---other than that we have a levelling server---and there are a lot of those. |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 12:09 AM |
| (removed) |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 05:25 AM |
| Im not even make a coment to this... |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 05:34 AM |
Getting persistent merchants back would be -really- nice. And some of the loot drops should be DB linked once per PC (Think Ronin armour), I feel.
-Barnas |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 05:45 AM |
And some of the loot drops should be DB linked once per PC (Think Ronin armour), I feel.
It should be that way for every "static" item drop. This has already been implemented (witness Nargul's tomb)
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 05:48 AM |
Yeah. All of the "Specific item" ones.
-Barnas |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 08:07 AM |
The persistent merchants were originally removed as they were thought a source of lag..... it's become reasonably safe to say they aren't. Especially if we apply a limit to their inventories to prevent the TMI errors, that can be an issue.
I'll have a chat with the others to see if we can get them back in game, I for one want them back ;)
Cheers
Ara |
Vives Screenshots!
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 08:25 AM |
That would be wonderful ... thank you so much
Ken |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 12:20 PM |
Bringing them back would be grand!
We should have a welcome back sale though!
:) |
-Narenia
Main PC: Dina Islme |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 02:25 PM |
I dont know that making the merchants persistant again will have any affect on the economy. With the HotU merchants, while we can simply make their inventories persistant, we can't as easily make their working capital persistant. Just as with the ones now, every reset, the amount of money they have to buy things with is reset.
One possibility to do somethign about this would be to greatly reduce the markdown that they buy things at, say moving it down to 10%. We would also be safe to lower the sell 'markup' as well, even below 100% as long as we builders are careful to make sure all merchants follow the same guidelines.
This would greatly reduce the amount of gp's that are shoveled into the economy every time someone goes on a looting/selling spree. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 04:36 PM |
Go back to the custom-Vives merchants! They were -way- better anyway.
-Barnas |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 04:42 PM |
| Yeah I agree, they were a lot better. The bioware ones just suck. |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 04:47 PM |
Custom merchants pros/cons:
Pros
More versitle
Persistent Items
Persistent money levels
Stealing
Very customisable
Cons
Works out of a container
Can buy things by mistake/steal by mistake
Bioware merchants pros
Persitent items
Squadie proof
Errr...
Bioware merchant cons
No stealing
Less versitile
Mess up economy
No persistent coinage.
No stealing
Back to custom merchants!
-Barnas |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 07:18 PM |
Let me put another question to mind...
IF the merchant become persistent again or even better that we go back to the old system what of the millions of gold pieces that are now stored or running around on the server, they still willl pose a serious treath to the economy. Because they were obtained during a period of economic turmoil.
I personaly suggest a purge gold
maybe not all of it ... maybe something like 90% or even 95% of each character gold would simply disapear.
Also going with this their would have to be a drastic lowering of Crafted items prices by merchant where they would give less than 10gp per item ... This is to avoid crafters to mass produce items in order to regain their lost millions. Of course this would be only temporary ... I suggest about a month so that the merchant can set up business again and replenish their stocks. It would be quite enoying to have all their inventory consisting of Mass produced crafted items.
Keep in mind -These Are Suggestions --
GreenWhisker IronWeaver |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 16 Mar 2004 11:29 PM |
I dont know that making the merchants persistant again will have any affect on the economy.
Well the first effect it will have will be for people to start spending their gold as the merchants inventories start to fill up with useful items sold by other people. That will cause a tremendous amount of saved up gold to disappear very quickly.
This is a good thing.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 17 Mar 2004 02:31 AM |
Some PCs are very rich, and were very rich in the old system as well. Names spring to mind, but I won't use them. I don't see how that has an adverse economic effect- some people -are- richer than others IRL.
Lowering crafted items isn't a good idea as well- some are pretty hard to make, and worth more than 10gp. However, with enchanting temporarily out of the game, that doesn't really matter so much as it's the enchanted items which are really like that.
-Barnas |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 17 Mar 2004 08:09 AM |
| If the merchants dont pay good gold for an item its the same of having non persistent ones, since people will never sell a +3 item for 500g for example, and then see the same item being sold for 10k, 20k, 30k gold. |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 17 Mar 2004 09:26 AM |
| If we go back to custom merchants, does this mean I have to dig out my blasted "scrying" amulet? |
-Narenia
Main PC: Dina Islme |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 17 Mar 2004 09:33 AM |
Well Xaranthir is one of those very rich persons. Why? He nearly never bought anything, apart from healing packs, healing packs and healing packs. He doesn't have 'millions' but he ain't poor either.
Anyway, in his case I sent a proposal to the DMs in order to do something with this coinage. I'm only waiting on confirmation. Snatching away 90% of his wealth will also ensure that this quest proposal goes into the waste bin. I'd rather not see that happen.
And before anyone asks, no, I'm not buying the staff of ultimate 1337-ness. :P |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 17 Mar 2004 09:37 AM |
>>>And before anyone asks, no, I'm not buying the staff of ultimate 1337-ness. :P
he is, however, buying the staff of teh kewl d00d
^_^ |
Sai Barris, Scamp-at-Large
Cynda LeRange, Reporter, Port Royale
Parson Droim Raine, Preacha o da Word o Swiftfoot |
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Re: Economy -- What Happened to it -- Why -- Suggestions --
Posted: 17 Mar 2004 01:12 PM |
| And he has a cool Robe thingy. |
Long Live the Fighters!
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