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Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 03:02 AM |
Since the transition to the Bioware merchants and HotU, I've heard that the buy/sell as well as items found in chests are quite unlike usual (nor is desirable). Could someone please update me on how things are (since I'd likely be doing the tweaks, having Víves this week)? Please don't forget to specify whether your character is
(i) high level or low level?
(ii) intensive treasure seeker or not?
(iii) crafter? high level or low level with respect to crafting?
(iv) appraisal skill? Is the merchant favourable or not?
Specific examples and numbers would be more helpful than opinions. Examples of concrete examples would be "merchant Billybob sells Ring of the Beetle for 20000 goldpieces but buy them for only 1 goldpiece", or "high level crafted items are selling for too much gold". Again, since I don't play much anymore, the more information you give me the better I'd be able to correlate things within the Toolset.
Thank you!
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 03:29 AM |
(i) high level
(ii) part time intensive treasure seeker (I try to split my time online between monster killing (and treasure finding) and roleplay)
(iii) crafter, highish level tailorer, mid level (well actually around 6-7) everything else, except alchemy and tinkering (low level)
(iv) merchants are usually favourable (no skill points in skill, but high int)
Specific example:
Gnomish vendor near Midor gates: sells Mage tower (mage resting kits) for 8000 to 9000 gp but only buys them at 450 gp
Midor mage tower: buys ring of int+2 or +3 for 2000 gp, but sells it at over 30k (for +2)
A lot of the vendors only give a maximum price of 600 gp, no matter what the enchantment or power of the object is. In itself I have no problem with that, except that if one wishes to buy something of similar power level that one can use, it costs 20-100 times more than what you got for the first item.
About crafting: I haven't made any armours in a long while, so I don't know what prices those fetch.
Opinion:
I've saved every penny from the start and I have no money problems, but a new character that isn't a rogue and as such doesn't break into houses to get the goodies, is having a hard time to buy anything. I think that lowering the selling prices (the prices at which merchants sell that is) might do the trick though.
Phoenix |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 03:57 AM |
(i) mid level (10 - Luther, 4 - Darian)
(ii) intensive treasure seeker
(iii) low level (2 in gem crafting and that's it)
(iv) skill of 2
- the smithy in midor doesn't seem to buy magical weapons anymore
- the wizard tower in midor does not buy magical clothes useable by a wizard (not specific to a wizard) anymore
- we cannot buy gem crafting tools at the jewlers anymore in port royale
- crafting tools are hard or impossible to find (I have not checked everyplace I know of yet). For example, I cannot find skinning knives at any of the places where I can do hide preparation. (maybe I have to look harder, but it wasn't that way before the merchant change)
I'll add more examples as I come across them.
*edit - added some more information*
Generally, I find the prices of items to be quite high relative to the amount of gold that can be found. Unless the character raids some of the item respawn points on a daily basis to sell the items for gold, collecting gold can take quite a large amount of time.
Luther averages around 1 - 2 thousand gold a day from killing monsters and cleaning out areas. This does not include the gold he gets for selling magic items which is frequently capped at 600 to 2000 depending on where and when he sells the items. (there are places where he can get more for some items - but that would be a spoiler). Unfortunately, it is much more difficult to sell items now.
Luther found a +3 Kama in Ferein shop for 33 thousand gold. It took two weeks to get enough gold to purchase that (and the next day he found another for 22 that was not there before - Argh!). He has also had to purchase all the items he currently possesses as he has found nothing he can use during his travels (except for two items retrieved from quest completion)
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 07:22 AM |
I think that the amount merchants can pay depends on the gold they got..
example - I tried to sell something to a 'new' merchant (not sure which) and it said it will cost 600 gps..
then I bought something and tried again.. and it said he will pay 1500...
maybe I did something in the middle (not sure) but I think it depends on the gold stocks they got..
and with their high prices no one buys.. so .. =P
Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 08:24 AM |
As best as I can tell, merchants have set maximum amounts that they will pay. This varies from merchant to merchant, and presumably was set to reflect the merchant's goegraphical location and apparent lifestyle. They also sometimes appear to have run out of money.
Drops are totally useless now. With a level 22 character the highest drop I have gotten lately has been 2 GP and a basic item worth perhaps another 3 - 6 GP. This is very likely leading to a Vives-wide shortage in potions, since drops is where those appeared.
Chests are still reasonable, although no longer fantastic. That is, the average weapon appears to be +1 rather than +3. One can still find items worth selling, occasionally very good ones. When in a group I seldom if ever pick up drops or open chests. My response is based on solitary ventures. I also don't go to the "best" places which are far too dangerous for a solitary character or even groups of three IMO.
Crafting produces items with values based on the same system as all the other items. This is Bioware's method. I think it is based on base value plus enchantments. Therefore some of the more advanced items could in theory be worth a lot, but because of the ceiling on the merchants they are worth at most 1500 GP IME.
What Q said to me, just before he vanished, was that he thought that the economy of Vives was simply going to have to adjust to the Bioware pricing method. My own understanding of what he meant by that is as follows. Even if it is the opinion of some people that characters ought to be walking around with only a dozen or so gold pieces to their name, if Bioware's pricing method leads to thousands, then we have to live with it and make the rest of Vives consistant with that level of currency. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 10:51 AM |
Levels: High, Medium and Low -19, 10 and 6.
Intensive treasure seeker: Fri'el, no. Thelia, yes. Aurelia, no.
Crafter: Fri'el, yes, high (11 Enchantress, 10 Gem Crafter, 8 Smelter, 4 Armour Smith, 2 Tinker) Others : No
Apraise skill: No. Fri'el often finds merchants favourable, however.
General: Items are very expensive, and the merchants caps are very low for the prices. All of my PCs have had trouble maintaining a consistent level of gold- I found it -very- hard to start Aurelia with the merchants as they are.
Specific examples: A suit of Full Plate costs about 15-20K GP -anywhere-, but searching the whole of Vives the best price you are likely to find is about 1000 GP.
High Level crafted items -do- sell for a lot of gold, however they are hard enough to make that it is worth it. They still sell for less than before, however.
There's one merchant who I've decided is probably bugged, I've PMed you the name and where. I wasn't sure for a while, because he carried permanantly expensive items and so I thought that was swaying it- now I'm just sure that he isn't set up like the others.
Conclusion: It's not pretty, to be honest. The current system works, however the treasure drops from monsters are now neutered, and that combined with low buying and high selling means many low levels will be bankrupt/struggle.
-Barnas |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 11:44 AM |
(i) Low/Mid
(ii) Yes/no
(iii) Yes/no, low-middle
(iv) Yes, favorable but usually only lowers the price of a 22k item by a few hundred. Nothing noteworthy
Well i'd have to say that everyone has just about brought up all the screwy merchants. There are a few things i would LOVE to see done but well, maybee this is not the tread for it. Oh what the hell, like that has ever stopped me before. I would like to see an abolition to high level item drops and would instead like to see monsters drop basic versions of eq mainly for new people. I kind of dislike how people rush to loot spawns every reset, it is very un-rpish. That is also the problem that is the actual CAUSE to the merchant problem. People see a high level item (which i dont think should should drop from monsters) and in order to afford it they raid high level spawns over and over again and sell the eq and items to other merchants in order to get the gold to buy they one they want and complain about the low buy, high sell prices allong the way. All this leads to is people seeing the items they sold trying to get the one they bought and that causes all these new people to raid all the spawns they know of in order to buy the item they wanted. This leads to more complaining and more raiding of spawns. THIS IS CALLED THE SNOWBALL EFFECT.
--My proposition--
Erradicate good item drops from ALL monsters. In an rp server i dont think that people should be killing monsters hoping for a good spawn and I lothe rushing treasure spawns on resets. I know that the crafting system is not finished but Slink and Sug have been putting alot of hours into it and its looking very good. Nobody uses it tho because high level drops are alwayse superior. How many people do you see using crafted armour? None, they are all using friihallen chain mail and stuff. Crafting is not getting the use it should because people would rather hunt for drops, hell you get xp to level while you do that :)
I propose that crafting become the MAIN source of all EQ,Potion,Misc items, Ect. Reduce all monster drops to BASIC ITEMS ONLY except in rare occasions (for example, dropped items related to a quest or as a reward) and instead force people to rely on CRAFTED ITEMS instead. Focusing on crafting in my opinion is a whole lot more rpish than drop hunting or treasure rushing on resets. Merchants will nolonger be a problem when only basic eq is being passed through them (crafting components would be a good thing to sell and buy in merchants). IMHO forcing the player base to rely on crafting for nearly all eq would create an economy people could participate in. Nobody wastes time crafting potions because you can usually find ample supply killing goblins and kobolds and its quicker than gathering the components.
I realize that crafting is not complete and that there is currently no way to even make cloaks, boots, bracers, ect and drops are currently the ONLY way to get them. If it is made a priority then i believe it can be done in a timely manner.
This leave the question of what to do with all the high level drops that people have accumulated. I personally would be willing to sacrifice all my eq for basic versions (for example trade in my high level droped full plate for a standard plate) and i think everyone else should be willing to do the same. Anyone that cares about creating an excellent crafting driven economy will feel the same way i do. Now, people that only care about keeping their high level drops in a vain attempt to become UBER will obviously fight this tooth an nail.
I just felt like getting this off my chest, i have alwayse hatted drops and i think that this would make crafting a much more desireable thing to do. Anywayse please give ONLY constructive criticism as i would like to see what my fellow players think about this. I dont want to see people whining and bitching without offering anything to the discussion. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 11:57 AM |
That is, the average weapon appears to be +1 rather than +3
and I dont think that +3 should be the avarage.. cuz it is the highest bonus you can get (enchantment bonus that is)
also..
if the drops are as low as you describe..
IMO - that means with a bit of merchant tweaking the economy will be much more balanced..
I dont think the current gold amount is balanced..
I think 10k gold should be something really really hard to get.. (and you should be able to buy a small house with that amount) but well.. that's just my opinion..
(and it is not based on the latest updates.. cuz I didnt try em yet.. what I do know.. that if you get ~1000 gps for item.. and you get 1 item that worth like that a day.. then you can buy a small house in a week.. not sure if this is realistic)
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I dont mean to these exact amounts of gold.. just overall description
(that you should work for more than a week.. maybe even more than a month.. to buy a small house - or a 'good' magical weapons)
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Dens |
You are more than welcome to ignore my spelling mistakes =p |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 05:05 PM |
Thanks for the replies.
I'd not want to see a completely crafting driven economy. I see crafting as an option but not an obligation. There are many of us who just don't have the time in reallife, nor the impulse and inclination, to "work" on crafting.
With regards to "looting", we now have the infrastructure (in terms of scripting) to prevent repetitive behaviours on chests et cetera that is being gradually installed and improved upon.
As for creatures, I believe Ara is soon to cease adding in generic creatures, but spend more time on customizing what we have with a better level of details - in terms of behaviour, quirks, as well as what a creature carries etc. I don't have the expertise in dealing with Bioware treasure tables to comment on this more at this moment.
When I get home later tonight, I'll have a look at the merchants based on what you folks have made known - thanks again for the responses. At this moment I think what I'd like to do is the following:
(i) keep, but raise slightly the upper bound of gold a merchant would afford to purchase each item from player;
(ii) keep the current per reset gold-balance for each merchant;
(iii) remove persistency for non-crafted items (while keeping the persistency to facilitate cooperation and development of the tradeskills)
(iv) tune the buy/sell prices so they're in-line with one another - at least on the same order of magnitude.
Feel free to express how you'd like to see the economy work as well - I'm sure there's things that I can't foresee as a consequence of not playing regularly!
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 05:45 PM |
(iii) remove persistency for non-crafted items (while keeping the persistency to facilitate cooperation and development of the tradeskills)
About this Im not sure, as people usualy buy these items to the ones who actualy do them, I would do exactly the oposite, make the items that are crafted non persistent making people to look for the crafter and interact with them. I also wouldnt like to see hundreds of the same items for sell in the stores |
Why search around when the answer is within you...?
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 02 Feb 2004 06:04 PM |
About this Im not sure, as people usualy buy these items to the ones who actualy do them, I would do exactly the oposite, make the items that are crafted non persistent making people to look for the crafter and interact with them. I also wouldnt like to see hundreds of the same items for sell in the stores
I was thinking of the need for people to obtain "prerequisite" materials in each craft - empty bottles etc.
Then again I may be completely off.
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 03 Feb 2004 04:35 AM |
Perhaps the snowball effect is happening because there are very few other ways for people to get any serious amount of gold? Combine that with the relatively high cost of items in the shop, and of course people will raid the respawning drops (that's bad RP of course, but there will be a fix coming, I hear)
After that, how else are people supposed to earn gold? Hades suggests that we CRAFT. Sure, if you want to play Tools and Trades (tm), but even on an RP server, not everyone wants to craft all the time. Oh, and since there is very little to no XP for this, how will the character ever gain enough levels of experience in order to be strong enough to survive the journey to get the ingredients? You cannot roleplay the items into existance. Oh and RP experience can only be assigned when a DM is there to watch and be there watching. Unfortunately, the DM's have lives of their own and cannot be there all the time to award the appropriate rewards. RP only experience alone would cut the rate of advancement to less than half to a tenth of what it currently is. Many people would not wait around long enough to gain the levels required to craft the items they would need to survive. Vives is DANGEROUS, and I am talking about the "low level" places. The high level places are INSANE.
No, being able to get some gold from bashing monsters is necessary to allow people to arm themselves well enough to go and get ingredients for crafting (assuming they want to craft in the first place).
If you try to force an all crafting economy on Vives, you will end up with an almost empty server. Hands up, all those who want Vives to be an exercise in crafting?
So, enough about the problem and think about some possible solutions:
- quest drops: script it so that a person who as received the treasure once, cannot receive it again (ok, give them a few gold, but perferably more than 1 to 2 gp). There are a few conditions that would have to be taken into consideration, such as what happens if I have gotten the drop before, but I am partied with someone who has not gotten the drop before. What happens?
- monster drops: increase the gold and go light on the magic. Decent magic should be available from defeating "boss" monsters - it's an appropriate reward. Don't necessarily make them fixed pieces, but make it somewhat random among a range of appropriately powered items.
- stores: reduce the discrepancy between the buying and selling prices, unless you want to keep the amount of gold in the game to really small amounts.
- base crafting items: allow the merchants to sell the basic items to allow crafting. At the moment, it seems too hard to find the base crafting tools (or at least much much harder than it was three weeks ago)
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
--
"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
--
<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 03 Feb 2004 05:07 AM |
Quest drops you can get only once. So that's solved. ;)
Base crafting items: Indeed some tools cannot be found, which makes it very hard for beginning crafting people to take up a craft (e.g. gem chisels). So those should be available from the merchants IMHO. |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 03 Feb 2004 05:32 AM |
The tools were supposed to be available, however they may not have gotten in since Q took time off about the same time the information was passed to him. Remember that the equipable tools are weapons, and check under the weapons section of the merchant.
Tools required:
- Tailoring
Sewing Kit
- Gem Working
Gem Chisels <= consumable
Gem Working Kit (may be wrong name)
- Carpentry
Woodcutter's Axe (cnr version, not NWN version)
Woodworking Tools
- Tinkering
Shovels <= consumable
Tinker's Tools
- Mining & Smithing
Pickaxes <= consumable
Smith's Hammer
- Brewing
Buckets
None-tool items required, no other way to get them:
Baking Yeast
Brewing Yeast
Pattern Book
Nicities, but need to have some charge associated to make the crafting of them worthwhile. Otherwise the interdependancy falls apart.:
Patterns
Armor Patterns (one type for every class of metal armor)
Molds (Small, Medium, Large, and several others for tailoring and gem-crafting)
Flasks & Vials |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 03 Feb 2004 09:36 AM |
Well pd, you seem to have the idea that most people have, you have to craft your own stuff. Thats not true, you BUY it from someone else. I've come across most people that complain about crafting taking so long to learn and usually find out that they are trying to learn 8 or different lines in order to make every thing they need (other place, not just vives since not many people use crafting here). Crafting would become the quest you do, you might seek out someone that makes ARMOUR to buy your armour and they might send you on a quest to get a topaz (give you instructions on how to get there) in order to make the resist lightning chaimail +2 you want.
There are basically 3 different tiers to this
-High levels- 15+
These people can get high level components to finish off high level items. Most of the time this involves enchanting the armour with gem dust that is guarded by tough baddies and later probably getting special components to add different modifiers to BASIC armours.
*Crafting basic items and components is nothing but a hassel to them, they would much rather buy the weapons, armour, rings, vials, ect from LOW level crafters for money and simply take the process further to make the high level vesions of the basic eq.
-mid level 8-14-
These people can get to some of the better stuf and have had the time to get atleast one crafting area extremely high. Assuming wizards are not wasting time making their own vials (they should be buying vials and flasks from people who are trying to learn tinkering) they should be able to get very high on alchemy which could bring in good money assuming the potion drops are lowered in rate. Face it, everyone would like to have some buff potions and healing potions in a tight spot. Some mid level items can also be created in this tier and they can send the lower level people out on quests to aquire special components they dont have stocked just like the high levels send them out in order to get what they want.
-low level 1-7-
These people dont have any skills and are fresh. These people should be crafting things like raw ore and ingots, vials and flasks, arrow heads, gears and springs, ect.. for use by the mid and high levle crafters. They should NOT be making vials and flasks and then trying to advance in alchemy just because they have the flasks. They need to pick one or two areas to start in that complimenty what stats they are strong in. For example, newbie dwarven fighters that want to learn a craft shoul start by making ingots and SELLING the ingots to higher level crafters. Later on after their skills in forging get better they should start advancing in either weapon or armour crafting (are they the same crafting skills?). The thing not to do is to jump between 3 or 4 crafts as it will take ages to get ANYWHERE and you WILL get boored. I see people who want to do enchanting wasting their time with jewelry crafting when they should just be buying the gems dust from people who choose to do jewelry crafting who should in turn come to enchanters to enchant their rings.
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Not everyone needs to craft, if you dont want to do it then you certainly should not waste time, but i see alot of people idling in the IRC going IM BOORED!! *glances at someone and quickly looks away whistling*. Crafting and the aqusition can be made into player driven quests and i'm sure that DM's would reward people that do a good job role playing the situations.
Look at neek, he can prety much supply the server with all their bows, crossbows, and arrows so is there any reason why all the rangers and archers should waste time making their own crap? No, they can just buy them from neek (do buy from him, he makes good arrows). If you look into most of the crafts have some lap over with other crafts so that some of the materials they make are usefull to other crafting areas. This is not sopposed to be a reason to take up a ton of crafts in a vain attempt to craft everything you need, but rather something to facilitate trade between the crafts. If your a mage then buy your vials and flasks from a low levle tinkerer, dont try and waste your time improving your tinkering skills.
People can try and gouge prices and i'm sure they probably will, just remember, the more you low level crafters charge for sub components like vials and flasks, the more expensive the final products will be that your going to be purchasing. You'll be digging your own grave doing that.
In short, not EVERYONE needs to do crafting, just a few people and they only need to worry about getting their skills up. They can send people that want to buy armour out on quests for some of the components (for high level eq). |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 09:35 AM |
excellent ideas from hades there... hire someone to go fetch supplies for you ;)
set up shops and sell your stuff, lets get the player trade going. |
Current Characters - Worik the Wanderer, Joda Zod, and Kango.
"Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?" |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 10:51 AM |
A long time ago we had NPC merchants you could rent out...where you'd give them your crafted wares or loot you found, and they would sell it for you while you weren't even on. Not sure if there was a persistency problem, or if they even worked that well, but perhaps it can still be an idea.
~Fenarisk |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 01:35 PM |
| Crafting is not divided by character level. It is divided by the crafting level for each craft, and the caps on those for the individuals. Teams work best together that have a common interest; what Barnas once called "crafting cabals". In any given craft, the one that had the highest cap works toward that goal, and the others feed that one the required materials. In return, the "feeders" get the products made by the "eater". Then, when everyone gets tired of it, they go out together and kills some things. Then they have a drink together. *wink* |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 02:35 PM |
| yes slink, i know that crafts are not divided by level but eventually you dont gain any xp from certain crafted items (when it becomes trivial) and the crafting xp gained from them steadily decreases. In order to keep progressing in crafting you have to move up the list and start crafting the more powerfull stuff. This requires components that are harder to get. I used char level brackets to somewhat divide it by what people can get what components. Sorry if that confused anyone. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 02:39 PM |
| Neek has been using apprentices for months. He also contracts out for cams and wire |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 05 Feb 2004 02:43 PM |
| What I'm saying is that the ideal adventuring group (fighter, cleric, mage, and rogue) works perfectly fine as an ideal crafting group, because of the divergent attributes and their effect on crafting abilities and caps. The whole group progresses in both arenas, and all benefit. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 07 Feb 2004 03:23 PM |
What the hell happened to tailoring
Wow
Silver leather, gold leather, platinum leather, cobalt leather, titanium leather so much fun there is metal everywhere I would Think myself on the world Of Mirrodin (for those who dont know Magic the Gathering its a world where everything is made of metals even the trees and grass are made of metals and even living being are half metal and half skin).
HAHAHA Now Druids have to wear Metal no matter what they do ** Evil laughter **
No! Seriously what does Metal have to do with Tailoring
I Know that you are all making the Crafting inacessible to one person so we HAVE to team up to make a single item but where will it end from what I have seen on the new tailoring youll need a miner a smelther a thinkerer and a tailor to make a plain leather armor that sell for 5 gp
What next we will have to make bags to put the sand we dig in the desert, or even better craft our own pickaxe to go mine some ore to make a pickaxe, or even better we will have to make our own anvils, forges, curing tub and hide rack and hunt rare metals and stones as well as gems and powerfull magics to make an enchanting altar that we have to enchant on a regular basis so it doesnt lose its power.
And all that to produce some items that are less powerfull than regular drops.
The most powerfull CNR weapon is adamtium ... I made a Adamantium Battle Axe
let me tell you by the time I succeded I had an arsenal of battleaxes that I found bought and bargained for and let me tell you the few extra damage (Yes I mean FEW as in -Not Many-) I got from the Crafted Admantium BattleAxe might not be worth all the work I put into making it.
Comments anyone?? |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 07 Feb 2004 03:40 PM |
Yeah, one. Where did you find Adamantium Ore? No, don't answer that. I was joking, although in truth I have no idea where it is found and probably would not live long enough to mine any of it. Where-ever it may be.
There are no longer any plain leather armors in the crafting. What you -can- make sells for more than 5 GP.
For why metal went into all of the tailored armors, you'll have to ask Sug. He is who designed them. I coded them in to use metal wire for the leather and padded ones, which can at least be viewed as a type of thread used in their construction. Studded leather armors always used metal studs, and still do.
I do make my own pickaxes and shovels, because the stores where I used to buy them have stopped selling them. Hopefully this will be remedied soon. On the other hand, yeasts can't be made and aren't available, so at least people practicing crafts using metal tools have one advantage over brewers and bakers at the moment. Patience is the word here. |
Dieties preserve us from the evil chaotics named Lag, Crash, and Server Reset.
PCs: Loli Dankirk (Ftr 18/Brd 8.5 @ 1777 hrs) left Vives for Origins; Gnora Gnombody (Sor 5 @ 54 hrs) and Amanda Stark (Wiz 3 @ ~10 hrs) left Vives for Feline Providence. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 08 Feb 2004 12:40 AM |
What the hell happened to tailoring
What next we will have to make bags to put the sand we dig in the desert, or even better craft our own pickaxe to go mine some ore to make a pickaxe, or even better we will have to make our own anvils, forges, curing tub and hide rack and hunt rare metals and stones as well as gems and powerfull magics to make an enchanting altar that we have to enchant on a regular basis so it doesnt lose its power.
And all that to produce some items that are less powerfull than regular drops.
The most powerfull CNR weapon is adamtium ... I made a Adamantium Battle Axe
let me tell you by the time I succeded I had an arsenal of battleaxes that I found bought and bargained for and let me tell you the few extra damage (Yes I mean FEW as in -Not Many-) I got from the Crafted Admantium BattleAxe might not be worth all the work I put into making it.
Comments anyone??
I personally sees crafting as an interesting option to add roleplay flavour to your character, something to do when you (RL) don't feel completely up to your normal spectacular roleplay, something to involve other player(s) with, something to be discovered and brings delight in the discovery... Sug (and slink) are working on some ideas that pushes this crafting system further along those lines, and at this point I don't want to spoil their surprise.
But, I guess, the bottomline is, you were never, are never - and I promise you will never - be obliged to craft.
To imagine someone wasting their precious pulses behind a monitor to gain pixel-power - and only to gain pixel-power - is a thought that makes me shudder, everything that is counter to my vision of Víves. Please don't let me know you're doing that...
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Aria
So talented, so troubled. |
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Re: Economy Tweaks?
Posted: 08 Feb 2004 12:28 PM |
I dont think many people will be crafting as dropped items are superior to crafted ones. It's been my long standing oppinion that very good stuff should never be dropped by npc's. For the time being its ok becasue there are currently no way to craft many things (you can craft amulets and rings but still cannot make boots, cloaks, and gauntlets).
I would just like to suggest that you figure something out over this before the crafting system is prety much fully completed. Its not an issue now but eventually it will be (if anyone wants to see any real use from the system that is) so its best to find a solution now then wait untill later. The player base grows every day and every day that passes is more people to argue about what to do. |
mannaka no
ana ni sounyuu
awari kana |
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