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Forums  > General  > General  > Epic?     Display using: Flat View Threaded View   Oldest to newest Newest to oldest Previous Thread :: Next Thread   Author  Thread: Epic?  SpaciousQ Joined: 01 Sep 2003 Total Posts: 112 Send PM   Epic? Posted: 22 Jan 2004 07:58 PM I've been thinking lately for quite some time about this, but i was curious to know the opinions of others. What does everyone think of Epic levels in vives? I personally have never been a fan of the epic levels, and am quite convinced level 20 is high enough. I know there's a few who share my thoughts, and others who oppose. And both have reasonably valid points (though i still remain on my side of the fence). I guess the thing that brought this to mind again was the recent thread "Character Clean Up?". I read through all the posts and it became apparent that a good portion of the debate concerned high lvls vs. low lvls. (regardless of how or when these levels were attained). So here's my point. -If- level difference is a limiting factor to some, and found to hinder player interaction then would having a 40lvl range help that at all? An issue in "Character Clean Up?" was a balanced out player base. Would resetting a 20lvl cap give hope for younger players to eventually be equals to the current 20's? on the other hand, should players like loli who have earned their 22nd lvl be limited? afterall, what would keep those characters from continuing to play if they could no longer progress. -Or- would this promote the creation of newer characters by older players? On an added note, let's say the majority -do- in fact favour epic levels. does vives really need them all the way to 40? or should is 25 or 30 enough? Just some things to think about. oh! and one more thing, why exclude epic levels after having forked out the cash for HoTU? Keep in mind this thread isnt started with the intent to make changes in vives. just raise some isseus that have been on my own mind. So now i set them on yours. =) there's other things i meant to write down, but i've lost them as i typed. No doubt i'll remember them when i log off. So let's hear some thoughts and opinions, i'm curious to know. and please, let's keep this clean people =P *blows the fox 40 whistle held tightly between pursed lips* let's get it on! ps. kudos to loli, 1300+ hours? you're a machine!  Landru Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 740 Send PM   Re: Epic? Posted: 22 Jan 2004 08:44 PM I don't think it's necessary to cap levels here... we have no restrictions on interaction between high and low level players, and the folks here are good enough roleplayers to not abuse the level differential. PvP is not a problem, since it basically doesn't exist without DM involvement, and the high amount of levels allows character to progress through a nice, long life. Things get kind of stale when you "top out", which can begin to lead to aberrant behavior. I know this, because I've seen it. ;) ok, so you asked, there's my $0.02. Question Authority!  Alosynth Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 1324 Send PM   Re: Epic? Posted: 22 Jan 2004 09:33 PM Wow.. me and Merum agreeing on a topic. Not something you'll see often. Though, to throw a curve into it, I wouldn't say no to making the epic levels more difficult to obtain. I'll wait and see how things pan out before making any suggestions in that line though. ~Alosynth  SpaciousQ Joined: 01 Sep 2003 Total Posts: 112 Send PM   Re: Epic? Posted: 22 Jan 2004 10:11 PM *reads over Landru's post and nods* a good point, and one i definately agree with. Often the loss of progression can lead to loss of interest as well. it's good to always have something to work towards.  Fenarisk Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 823 Send PM   Re: Epic? Posted: 22 Jan 2004 10:23 PM Range of 40 levels? Ha..ha... BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Good luck ever even getting up to 25, at the most, after spending time exploiting for years here. Then, maybe THEN you can get level 26 within Vives. I honestly don't even see the whole level problem being an issue here, as we don't have any high level jerks, and XP is pretty even across the boards, so considering epic in any degree seems rather a moot point. ~Fenarisk  SpaciousQ Joined: 01 Sep 2003 Total Posts: 112 Send PM   Re: Epic? Posted: 22 Jan 2004 10:40 PM Range of 40 levels? Ha..ha... BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Good luck ever even getting up to 25, at the most, after spending time exploiting for years here. Then, maybe THEN you can get level 26 within Vives. I honestly don't even see the whole level problem being an issue here, as we don't have any high level jerks, and XP is pretty even across the boards, so considering epic in any degree seems rather a moot point. ~Fenarisk I agree. it's doubtful most will never see numbers. It wasnt so much an issue as it was curiosity to a "what if" scenario, and opinions on Epics in general. Also, as for having no high level jerks, that's only cause -i- havnt gotten there yet, fen. =P *coughlemonpartycough*  Lytton Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Total Posts: 245 Send PM   Cap at level 1 Posted: 23 Jan 2004 12:58 AM I think we should cap everyone at level 1. Then the sad sad monkeys who play for 20 hours a day wont be able to kill my two minute old character when I take the piss. I want to be a level 1 Tarrasque. That means I could have a tail. ratemypoo.com  Fenarisk Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 823 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 23 Jan 2004 01:29 AM If ya' made friends with the admins and displayed great RP it's really easy to give your character a tail...wings too. ~Fenarisk  Phoenix_Flamehart Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 482 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 23 Jan 2004 10:26 AM *whistles innocently* I don't see the problem with Epic Levels. People who get to that sort of level usually deserve it. See, the strange thing is, that powergamers who exploit to gain levels seem to come with an equally short attention span.From what I've seen, such people get bored with a character very quickly and move onto the next - thus, never really having the high level character they moan and gripe aboutCourse, this is my experience, and I'm sure that there are powergamers who get to high levels to PK others. But then, do we actually have that breed of power leveller here? And yes, you do need progression for people to stick around - either you need to keep their interest in constantly developing stories and interaction or, the easier way is through levelling. If you want a prime example of why no progression means no interest, on my old server, we capped the levels at 10 and made it night impossible to get money or progress in any way other than DM time. This doesn't help when the DM is on once a week, and it died. In a similiar manner, think of your time in school - when there seemed to be no point to a lesson, you just weren't interested and switched off. I'm in favour of Epic levels. People who reach that level have put a lot of time and effort into those characters. And there's always ways to challenge them other than 'throw dat monster here'. Why, with a single sentence, I could reduce the current Epic Level character to a whimpering screaming heap. But, err, that would be nasty :P - Who needs Epic Levels when you have Epic Eyebrows?  Barnas Joined: 17 Aug 2003 Total Posts: 3322 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 23 Jan 2004 10:36 AM Why, with a single sentence, I could reduce the current Epic Level character to a whimpering screaming heap. But, err, that would be nasty :P I...umm..dare you? No! NO! Double dare! *runs off cacking insanely* <Serious bit of post> I've played on worlds with level caps also, and it's annoying. NWN still has a level cap, but it's "unreachable". When it was 20, it was more reachable, and also slightly tedious, since once you got there... Also created problems with identifying who's more.. well, I can't think of the right word. High ranking? Power would come into it too, but also in terms of status. One of the ways people tend to identify a character's status -is- by their level. I've even seen examples of people assuming high level characters are DMs. Likewise, many monarchs are given levels on many PWs, to exemplify "status". The IC example is more relevant than the OOC one. However, with a level cap, a ledgendary character was has 2000 hours when a player joins is level [Insert Cap Level Here.] A new player joins, makes a character, and plays alongside this ledendary character. 1000 hours later, the new character has reached level [Cap level] too. How does that make sense? There's no advancement for the level capped character. I know I'd get pretty bored. Even at 100XP a day, it's advancement, and it gives you a goal. That's why I think capping is stupid. It makes things sticky which need not be, and doesn't deal with problems as well as carefully controlling XP (And Items, I suppose) for high level characters. </serious bit of post> -Barnas  Alosynth Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 1324 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 23 Jan 2004 11:46 AM Why, with a single sentence, I could reduce the current Epic Level character to a whimpering screaming heap. But, err, that would be nasty :P I...umm..dare you? No! NO! Double dare! *runs off cacking insanely* <Serious bit of post> -snip- </serious bit of post> -Barnas Note how the signature lies outside the serious bit of the post ~Alosynth  Barnas Joined: 17 Aug 2003 Total Posts: 3322 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 23 Jan 2004 12:28 PM Yeah.. well... um... Who takes -me- seriously anyway? =P -Barnas  Phoenix Joined: 08 Jun 2003 Total Posts: 942 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 23 Jan 2004 12:30 PM Course, this is my experience, and I'm sure that there are powergamers who get to high levels to PK others. But then, do we actually have that breed of power leveller here? Muhahahaha, wait til I get level 40 next week!!! Then I'll show you!! Oops wrong server. Seriously though, I don't see a problem with epic levels either (and no this is not because I'm relatively close to it; well trust me, it won't be for next week either ;P). But the high level players do not tend to cause trouble for the lower levels in terms of harassing or grieving. I have a feeling most of them take on a role of guides. And yes, I do like progress, even at a slow pace (granted getting to level 40 in a week might be fun for once, but I prefer the vives pace). Like PF said, no progression means no interest. Don't get me wrong. I've been roleplaying for hours with others wihout getting a single xp, but that was so much fun that I didn't even want any xp. But like so many other people I like diversity and that includes combat or puzzle solving, etc. And gaining a level still gives immense satisfaction. It's not a goal per se, but it's more a feeling like when you succeed an exam. As for powergaming...I'd be a bad example to follow. I didn't even put 18 in int at the start of Dias' career (OMG what was I thinking??? ;P). Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time. [Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven.  Duppy Conqueror Joined: 25 Dec 2003 Total Posts: 3 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 05 Feb 2004 02:48 PM in my humble opinion... once you've invested the time to earn level 20, and done all the quests, know the land, all the PCs and NPCs, you're cheating yourself to start over on that server... i mean, it's illogical to dumb down your role play and pretend you don't know anything that you've previously done.... if everyone were forced to start anew, you'll prolly find a lot of old faithfuls moving on to a new server in seach of new adventures... i don't play baldur's gate anymore... i've seen everything... but then, change is good...  Alosynth Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 1324 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 05 Feb 2004 03:22 PM -snip- i don't play baldur's gate anymore... i've seen everything... but then, change is good... I still play BG2 (I havn't played the first one yet, but I'll get it when I see it somewhere) I've played BG2 through about four times now, and I plan to play through it again soon. I love that game. ~Alosynth  bassa Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Total Posts: 25 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 05 Feb 2004 05:58 PM I still play BG2 (I havn't played the first one yet, but I'll get it when I see it somewhere) I've played BG2 through about four times now, and I plan to play through it again soon. I love that game. OMG, you haven't played the first one!?!? *Eyes pop out in astonishment* Dude/Dudette, go rob a bank and grap it, sheesh! o.O  Fenarisk Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Total Posts: 823 Send PM   Re: Cap at level 1 Posted: 05 Feb 2004 06:24 PM I played the first one, was okay, got to the last disc and it was messed up, it just crashed all the time once I entered the big city. Calling both the retailer and the manufacturer, they told me tough luck. It took me a long time to get to that point, and by the time I did it was past when they would replace it. Not happy being forced and screwed to own a broken product, I never finished it, never bought the expansion, and never played BG2. ~Fenarisk  Akril Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Total Posts: 1363 Send PM   Re: Epic? Posted: 07 Feb 2004 06:17 PM Just my two pennies worth Im british so dont have any cents (no play on the word "sense" please). All other consideration but new players aside, I have to say Epic characters are good for low level characters, expecially those played by Newbies. I have been playing on Vives for a few weeks and the status of characters such as Loli, Legolas, Coruva etc all give you aspiration. They are the heroes of the PCs. If commoners need adventurers for heroes, then adventurers need epic characters (legends if you will) for heros too. Just my view. Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. Akril Quinellieth. 20th Circle of the Order of the Ring  Arathon vives.dyndns.org Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Total Posts: 1885 Send PM   Re: Epic? Posted: 07 Feb 2004 06:57 PM I've no problems with epic levels at all....... I think it would be hypocritical of us staff to start "nerfing" stuff and making the game too difficult...... as yes it's aspirational and your character will -always- be able to progress further in Vives. Erm...... without getting into a long diatribe...... I'm in favour of them and see them as having a "place" in Vives. Ara Vives Screenshots! Previous Thread :: Next Thread  Page 1 of 1   Forums  > General  > General  > Epic?