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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 01:08 PM |
*thinks IGMS is rather lacking in the "oooooh, ahhhhhhh" department in NWN2*
They made all the missiles leave and hit at once... how super boring is THAT?
I'd get rid of it just because of THAT. At least in NWN there was that steady stream of missiles that made you feel like you just opened up a huge can o' whoop-a$$.
*nods sagely* |
"I'm not closed-minded, you're just WRONG." - Bucky Katt
My characters n portraits |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 01:16 PM |
Why do we have IGMS? Because the NWN developers were lazy? Bah....
I always thought it was because they (by whatever reasoning they might have had) thought no one would want to play a mage unless they beefed them up considerably... thus the Tank familiars, and overly offensive spells like the GMS's. |
"I'm not closed-minded, you're just WRONG." - Bucky Katt
My characters n portraits |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 01:59 PM |
<rant> I love it when people talk against IGMS, because I hate, hate, HATE that spell. It is a completely ridiculous spell, whose purpuse is by appearance to hit multiple enemies with magic missles, but does way more than that.
If we compare it to Chain Lightning, a fellow level 6 offensive spell, it does three times more damage. With 20 caster levels, a chain lightning will do 20d6 damage for a maximum of 120 damage for initial target and a maximum of 60 for target jumps.
However, with 20 caster levels, a mage releases 20 magic missles with IGMS, each doing 2d6 damage, meaning two times the damage Chain Lightning will do when hitting a single target.
Add to that the fact that Chain Lightning is elemental damage, which can be reduced by various items and spells, and that it has a reflex saving throw for half damage, an IGMS spell does magic damage, which is harder (if at all possible) to reduce, and no saving throw for damage.
This is why I hate, hate, hate that spell. It shouldn't exist, and if it does, it should be a level 9 spell. The biggest problem is that all missles can hit one target, resulting in a maximum of 240 damage - like Chain Lightning, it can be empowered and maximized as well for even more damage.
I get peeved off when I see that spell taking down a target that for everyone else is nigh impossible, just because the only thing that can stand against it is SR. Mages sometimes get so credited for their powers just because of that one spell that can take down mountains. NWN2 nerfed that spell by giving each missle only 1d6 points of damage, which is more acceptable.
For NWN2, I noticed a script it NWVault that limits the amounts of missle that can hit a single target for the missle storms to 5, meaning a ILMS and IGMS will function the same as a normal magic missle if cast against a single target, but not when cast against a group of enemies - which is how I think the spell should function. I wonder if the same thing could be done with the NWN version. </rant>
I can't help but rant when it comes to that IGMS spell. It makes every high level mage into an IGMS wh***. This isn't a point about wizards being overpowered, don't get me wrong all you wizards out there (especially you PD :P), rather at IGMS being way way overpowerful for its spell level. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 04:34 PM |
Oh hey, will I shock you all if I say I agree with you? I never liked IGMS all that much. You know why I like playing a wizard over a sorcerer? Versatility! Except that as someone -was it SQ?- put it, most wizards fill up slots 6 -9 (via normal casting, then stilled, empowered and maximised) with it. I do have several instances of the spell in Xaranthir's spell list and to be precise 4 normal ones and 2 maximised.
I'm better at buffing others than I am at killing stuff myself. These 'others' do include summoning spells though.
A fun fact (or maybe it's just fun for me ): I got IGMS waaaaaaaaay late in the game, after I was level 18 or 19.
Get rid of it for all I care. :)
I'll look at some other spells though that are a lot more fun to be brought IG, both in NWN and NWN2. PRC Consortium adapted a lot of the spells and some of them have rp only value. Then again, I also run around with an extended legend lore (that's a level 7 slot :P). |
Luther McIath: I see, so [X is] the right person in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.
[Fictrix] ... And can speak French, like both! Wait, I mean Elven. |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 05:16 PM |
| Yes, PD, suggest some more fun spells. Thats why I like wizards too, a wild assortment of tricks and interesting affects. |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 08:44 PM |
Yes, PD, suggest some more fun spells. Thats why I like wizards too, a wild assortment of tricks and interesting affects.
Why is no one suggesting throwing none-wizards a bone? I'd like to see more fun stuff for other classes, especially the none-caster ones. Mages and Clerics/Druids can do enough already! |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 08:53 PM |
Ummm.... WA? *points to thread title*
Get your own thread. |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 09:18 PM |
Ummm.... WA? *points to thread title*
Get your own thread.
This thread started out as something against high magic levels. I'm just adding another point. Spellcasters got enough as it is, imho. While it can be fun for them to have more neat spells, adding more only adds to the problem of too much magic - which I think we all agreed is a problem on SOME level.
I'm not gonna start suggesting what can be done for none-spellcasters, but while we're on the topic of magic, I'd like to point out that I've got the feeling spellcasters are being spoiled. |
WickedArtist: I think he needs a proper elf.
WickedArtist: A christmas elf!
Tasra: Any sort of elf that actually smiles ;o
Gasp! Scandalous!!! |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 09:28 PM |
| Well giving cool things to non casters will help with high magic levels because more people will play mundane classes. |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 31 Mar 2007 09:43 PM |
| Oi! us non casters is NOT mundane!!'ow about lettin' us non thieving rogues be able ta disguise ourselves without a silly kit? make it an ability an' stuff, tha more points ya throws in tha longer it lasts an' tha betta it werks...HEY maybe if ya gits reel good at it TS don' see thru it? Now THAT'D be fair. I meen rogues can't do nuthin' agains' bluddy TS this'd give 'em a shot at leest |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 01 Apr 2007 09:40 AM |
| Well thats another thing, True Sight. Rogues being able to really be rogues would be nice, but at the moment they really can't do any robbing really... They are just sort of sneak attackers. |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 01 Apr 2007 11:00 AM |
Well before this turns into a long argument about TS,(of which I have been witness to far too many), let me clarify that, although, as a rogue, the spell is the bane of my existance , I am not saying it should be taken away, but, when you concider that a rogues way of life is to find ways "around" things instead of thru them, wouldn't it stand to reason that a rogue wanting to find a way past a guard who has TS would be to TRULY Hide In Plain Sight. Imagine the RP possibilities of the rogue, instead of poppoing into the shadows and walking by at half speed, having to don a disguise, and "act" his way thru the gate, or past the paranoid Cleric who always has it up.
And as long as we're on the subject I'd like to say I really respected and apreciated Lucifer Mclath sending Johe a tell and asking if he was hiding because his back was turned and he had TS up. That is classy play in my book. Instead of being the one who out's the rogue, (oh what fun), he could see Johe on the screen, but RP'd accordingly that he COULDN'T see him because his back was turned. He has done that before too if the "hider"was behind a tree or a wall. RP like that has made TS far less annoying than it used to be to us rogues. |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 01 Apr 2007 11:54 AM |
TS does allow seeing through disguises, as that is part of the description in 3e.
TS in vives has had its duration quartered just because it is so powerful in a PW setting.
As for "not noticing" PCs that are hidden when I can see them on screen, it took me a while to realize that the mechanics of the game allowed me to do things which I should not be able to do under normal circumstances. I do try to react appropriately, and so should others.
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
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"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
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<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 01 Apr 2007 11:56 AM |
Ah... I was not aware that TS affects more than magical concealment and illusion. That is kinda bunk. But whatever. Since vives isn't about PvP I don't think it matters.
NWN is not PnP, so I don't suppose it matters, but if you are using DnD as the model to RP here, I have to set you right. TS says explicitly that it does not penetrate anything mundane such as non-magical disguises, natural concealment due to fog or foliage, a rogue hiding, etc.... Skill is just as powerful if not moreso than magic in the PnP game. |
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Re: Magic. Spell Lists
Posted: 04 Apr 2007 06:00 PM |
TS does allow seeing through disguises, as that is part of the description in 3e.
TS in vives has had its duration quartered just because it is so powerful in a PW setting.
As for "not noticing" PCs that are hidden when I can see them on screen, it took me a while to realize that the mechanics of the game allowed me to do things which I should not be able to do under normal circumstances. I do try to react appropriately, and so should others.
- Paul
Ok just thinking like a rogue 'ere, but out of interest...
Doncha think that if TS sees through disguise it would be because TS sees the "real skin" underneath the makeup. What if a particularly crafty rogue (after many levels, and many points put into it as I eluded to before), found a way to craft disguises out of, let's say animal parts using another "real skin"
*shrugs* just a tought I thunk is all :) |
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