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Dreaming
Posted: 26 Jun 2004 07:51 PM |
So, after playing a few characters here in vives over a period of time, I have begun dreaming of how to make this world better to me, and here is what came to mind.
1. First, I think the death system should be changed. I have played on some HCR servers, and the main thing that comes from perma death and ressurection damage is that people are more in tune to do things in town, and roleplay. I dont want a HCR style of death, but I do believe that making it impossible to resurrect yourself would make more people slow down to traveling alone, and it would make priests indespensible, giving them their right to their one unbelievable skill of bringing back life.
Also it would make some the higher level characters even more respected. At such a high level, in towns they would be very recognizable as a great adventurer, bringing in more RP. As such, it would make more people try many character types since we all know we are going to die I mean its inevitable for me! Im just dumb out there sometimes
And with the experience system, it would be perfect since you can level early fairly quickly just by learning the area around you in town. Some servers just go too hard core and give no experience, Vives is perfect for a perma death world.
So thats my idea about death....next
2. I would like to see the NPC's in town more involved with the town. Guards that will arrest PC's for looting and such, Priests that will protect the peoples health, random walking people in town (which could possibly have a quest attached). The NPC's in vives are mainly kinda useless other than finding in town quests.
While we are on quests, we need a lot more character spercific quests. I told someone months ago I would help write some, and I have, so maybe someone could show me how to install them.
3. Housing or chests, and I know you have heard this one, but it is a wish. with my rogue, with the update I lost my room, and Alo is helping me to recover some of the stuff I lost, but it has made me realize that the housing needs to be helped a bit. We just need more rooms available. For me I get to play maybe once or twice a week for a couple hours, and during that time I could do many things with my highest level character, unless he has to carry everything he owns. With a chest, I can do trades, hunt, shop, and save while always being way under the weight limit. Otherwise, I am one item away from being slowed, so realistically a high level character without a chest has to battle this. Once again though, you have heard this and we all know.
4. Lootable corpses.....let the thieves be thieves, and let the paladins be paladins.
5. Speaking of thieves/assasins, I know this is a sore subject sometimes, but let the thieves do their thing, and let the guards/paladins cut their heads off for it, and with perma death, stealing and such just gets that much more dangerousI playeed UO for awhile, and the biggest lure into being a rogue was getting good, and robbing people in town, while everyone was around the bank, and beating the guards if you were caught...One whack and you were gone, then looted, and then had to get ressed, which no good person would do, so another unlawful char would have to save them. Also there were bounties put on heads, and an evil city of thieves, and such. It made it incredibly fun, I loved killing thieves, which is weird that I tried my first one ever here in Vives...Thanks
6. And in the end, all of my choices were based on one thing that we have to get...People, because without them Port Royale is a lonely place to be and hunting solo with a rogue is just way to dangerous....especially if there is perma death.
Just some thoughts.... |
So a cleric, a ranger, and a thief walk into a bar, which one am I?
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 26 Jun 2004 08:14 PM |
2. I would like to see the NPC's in town more involved with the town. Guards that will arrest PC's for looting and such, Priests that will protect the peoples health, random walking people in town (which could possibly have a quest attached). The NPC's in vives are mainly kinda useless other than finding in town quests.
While I'm not an authority or anything, what I do know (as I've brought up things like this before) is that having more NPCs do more, interesting things would be cool, they would also unfortunately create a great deal of lag and strain on the server. The server can only handle so much, which severely limits the amount of "cool" things and detail they can add.
4. Lootable corpses.....let the thieves be thieves, and let the paladins be paladins.
I do believe that looting and pickpocketing fall under PVP, and this is a mainly non-PVP server. But once, again, I'm not authority, but I'm sure that there are reasons that things are just so. |
- [Rob], Balthor, Jake, and Thomas. |
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 26 Jun 2004 09:13 PM |
5. Speaking of thieves/assasins, I know this is a sore subject sometimes, but let the thieves do their thing, and let the guards/paladins cut their heads off for it, and with perma death, stealing and such just gets that much more dangerousI playeed UO for awhile, and the biggest lure into being a rogue was getting good, and robbing people in town, while everyone was around the bank, and beating the guards if you were caught...One whack and you were gone, then looted, and then had to get ressed, which no good person would do, so another unlawful char would have to save them. Also there were bounties put on heads, and an evil city of thieves, and such. It made it incredibly fun, I loved killing thieves, which is weird that I tried my first one ever here in Vives...Thanks
Just some thoughts....
I was a Detective on Napa... I think the only Detective Actually.. *grins* I had some Fun times there..... My character had tracking, and Detect hidden.. and Forensic evaluation, and actually had the ability to kill theives in town, before provoked. Something that no one else could do. I actually dressed as one of the guards.... and walked around like one. Then UO had the Trammel/ Felucca Split... so all the people who didn't want to get stolen from Went to the Trammel Non PVP facet.... This meant the theives no longer had any innocents to steal from, and started doing other things, which meant there were no more theives at the bank anymore *cries* and no more theives for me to hunt. It was fun while it lasted though, I took out quite a few Theives with that halberd. |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 26 Jun 2004 11:00 PM |
I am personally in favour of some form of perma-death, however, this late in the game, its not something I would not add it without the full and complete support of all the players. I think it is great because it forces a bit more sober thought before charging in on that nasty looking villian, perhaps finding some other way out of situations than blindly charging in on them.
If you've have some quests ideas you've put together, PM them to me and we will try to get them in game. I'll share them with the other builders, though it may take time to get them in, as I personally am very busy with non-vives stuff at the moment.
Unfortunatly, with NPC's, we have to be careful not to add to much to them. As mentioned, if we add too much, we add lag.
Theives can theive, nothing stopping them, we've just added some features to prevent greifing. Ie, no multiple stealing or stealing from people of five or more levels below you. Both of these result in XP hits. As well, anything too heavy to be realisiticly pickpocketed is immediatly dropped. There is also nothing stopping the victim from retailiating as long as it is with in the PvP guidlines. Keep in mind with this though, it is rather extreme, even for a Paladin, to kill someone for attempted to lift some measly little item, no matter how valuable. Fortunatly our players don't automatically associate being a rogue with being a theif. We've got very few actual theives in the world because of that. I think this is a good thing, there is nothing that will turn me of a PW quicker than one in which every other PC has PP points, and every rogue is a theif.
Lootable corpse, I'm sorry but I can't see any benifits of these outweighing the costs of putting them in. Vives may not be a strictly non-PvP world, but PvP is discouraged. I don't see enough value in lootable corpses to add them in. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 26 Jun 2004 11:18 PM |
I've played in Several Perma Death worlds... and with the Mechanics of Vives the way they are... I don't see Perma death a reasonable possibility here...
The Death penalties are already harsher than all of the other Non perma death worlds I've played on (Which works.. because none of those worlds had the EXP gains Vives does) but, with the amount of Lag deaths I get... and the Monster balances (Dragon knockdown? DC 50?) And the lack of "Safe activity" I've always found on other Perma death servers... Vives just doesn't seem like a proper candidate, especially with Water elemental drowns and Harpy songs and... the list goes on and on... its not necessarily about "Hey, That giant is huge, But I'll fight him anyways, because there is no Perma death on this server!"
If It was implemented, we'd likely see the world turn to Non risk activities, and I don't mean acitivites like smithing (Ha, non risk you say, go mine some Silver for you level 4 smithing activities) but non risk as in Stealthed Dungeon Loot stripping, And in-town merchant chest opening, and other such.... theif like activities. Warriors... (those people who trade blows with enemies until one of them wins) would become a thing of the past, and even the Mage training curve would become a subject of ridicule. *ponders* I see clerics winning it big though. *shrugs*
I still don't see it as a Viable method of "Realistic practice" considering that "Bodies" have to log off when they go to work, or when the server resets, and so on. From what I've seen, Perma death has constricted RP environments and disallowed them from expanding the flourishing Grandeur I've seen in servers that allow a little leniency to make up for things like... 40 second Server lag spikes. |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 26 Jun 2004 11:38 PM |
Monster balances (Dragon knockdown? DC 50?)
This issue has recently identified (not just dragons) and we are working at resolving it. Dragons should be difficult to knockdown of course (they are feckin' huge) but there are other creatures identified that have discipline checks unrealistically high. We do think PC's should be able to use those hard won knockdown, called shot, etc. feats with a reasonalble expectation of success so they can be used as good battle tactics. As such we will be examining beasties and re-adjusting certain stats to a more appropriate level. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 27 Jun 2004 01:11 AM |
No no no no.....
I was talking about MY discipline vs THEIR DC... due to the Size category difference... Dragons actually have a BONUS to attack rating when the attempt to knock you down, and its not a minor bonus either. Dragons Already have Huge attack bonuses to begin with, and the knockdown DC is based off of the adjusted attack roll. ..... Daimon has Max Discipline for his Level... and Quite a high strength.... giving him a Discipline of about 30. I have NEVER Resisted a knockdown From a Dragon.... and They Hit you with a knockdown right before you get up from the last.... Now... The only way I've survived fights with Dragons, is when I just accept the fact that I'm going to die, and Never take a swing at the Dragon, (Even if it takes him a whole minute to kill me), while the rest of the party hits him while he's distracted, and hopefully Raises me after the Dragon Falls. What's worse, is that because of this huge Attack bonus for using the feat.... while my AC might actually stand a chance against the Dragon's normal attacks, Even After I'm knocked prone, A knockdown will only miss me on a 1. *frowns*
I always thought knockdown was intended as one of those Risk Over reward type feats... like power attack. You take a chance... and might win big. Not for a Dragon, The knockdown is WAY more likely to hit you than a Normal attack.... does the same amount of Damage, and always prevents the recipient from doing any action ever again..... Since the AI allows it to hit you with another Knockdown right before you get up.... Is this intended? It seems like a perversion of the Mechanics to me. I mean... Sure a Dragon should be able to knock me down, and sure it should be tough to resist.... but come on.... If you are so fast that a Dragon can't even hit you with a normal attack, how is he supposed to be able to knock you down with ease? |
The Legacy Saga |
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 27 Jun 2004 05:29 AM |
1. *snip*... pro perma death... blah blah blah *snip*
No. Not now, not ever. Vives is not a perma death world. It never has been, and I pray it never will be. I know that I don't play perma death worlds, and I'd hate to have to leave Vives because it was made one.
2. I would like to see the NPC's in town more involved with the town. Guards that will arrest PC's for looting and such, Priests that will protect the peoples health, random walking people in town (which could possibly have a quest attached). The NPC's in vives are mainly kinda useless other than finding in town quests.
In theory, I like this idea. However, adding all of those scripts in OnHeatbeat/OnPercieve would cause inordinate ammounts of lag- we don't have true AI, and as such anything like that would require about 50 scripts, I think.
3. Housing or chests, *snip*
Alo said this well. ;)
4. Lootable corpses.....let the thieves be thieves, and let the paladins be paladins.
In some ways I like lootable corpses, but that requires giving all the Bioware monsters full inventinorys which they'll drop, and also making sure than no monsters have illegal items- that's a lot of work considering the most you'll generally find is a chainmail. However, I -would- like to see the "static" loot drops droped by boss monsters rather than just lying there. Or perhaps an even mix of the two.
5. Speaking of thieves/assasins, *snip*
Vives does not encourage PvP in any way. Circumstances like that could, currently, be RPed- most likely after direct consultation with and the presence of a DM. However, I'd really rather not see the stage where you spend your whole time dealing with thieves who steal your stuff.
-Barnas |
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 27 Jun 2004 03:13 PM |
| To Veran, what can really be more harsh than your player dying forever? Losing experience or maybe one level has nothing on actually having to start over from level 1. Just a thought though. |
So a cleric, a ranger, and a thief walk into a bar, which one am I?
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 27 Jun 2004 03:16 PM |
Permadeath discourages players from carefully and considerately planning their characters RP, and encourages powerbuilding more than anything I've ever seen online.
It does nothing, -nothing- to actually improve RP.
And that's all Barnas has to say on the subject, at least without devolving into a torrent of swearwords. ;)
-Barnas |
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 27 Jun 2004 09:45 PM |
Re: permadeath
Agreed completely with Barnas
Not only that, but permadeath will discourage any character from exploring the world. Taking a look at the dirtnap league will show that very few, if any characters are able to go for very long without dying. There are just too many ways for characters to die in vives, especially with those death attacks that always fail on a 1 for a saving throw. (and that does not include deaths from lag, and invisibility bugs which are common enough)
(a recent experience with Luther and the Ronin just reinforces this opinion)
In my opinion, permadeath should remain as a character choice because of RP.
The Vives experience system of reduced xp over time and the current respawn penalties are punishment enough. I know for myself it certainly encourages preparation and caution.
2/ Quests: Pass the information onto Alo or Ara. It was my understanding that they would be happy to accept submissions. As to what format it should be in, you will need to negotiate that with the DMs and Builders
- Paul |
Purpose in life: finding better ways of allowing players to kill themselves. Repeatedly.
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"...Cause he mixes it with love
And makes the world taste good."
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<@James42> Lawful good isn't in your vocabulary, it's on your menu.
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Re: Dreaming
Posted: 27 Jun 2004 11:45 PM |
Yeah, I can see the point about discouraging people from exploring, but really it will only discourage them from traveling alone or hunting alone, but on this server, when there is usually less than 20 people in the big world of vives, it would discourage people actually.
Alo I will pass those quests to you, they are mainly just some people names, a story, and some ideas about what should happen. Im trying to make quests that will involve different races and paths, so goods can be good, evils can be evil, and so on. I tried using currently unused npc's from around the towns. |
So a cleric, a ranger, and a thief walk into a bar, which one am I?
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