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Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 22 Mar 2004 08:25 PM |
Using Aloria I have sneaked into Firhallen to find good treasure. Each time I do this I use up my own potions of invisibility and other abilities to accomplish this and run out once I get what I came for. It is risky business and I have died attempting it and took the huge exp hit. My last run a DM controlled wyrmling red dragon attacked me right when I was near a fire giant that could not see me, and as soon as he did, I got attacked by that giant, and the one next to it, in a cluttered area where escaping was extremely difficult for my resolution challenged mouse manueving abilities =). Now I do not doubt that creatures are intelligent and sneaky, but they are not intelligent enough to know when to attack so that the player and not the character would have a difficult time escaping. I would also say that taking control of a monster and using the DM invisibility, only to appear next to that character to attack is in my opinion a slight abuse of DM mosnter control (but I'm not sure this actually happened). I don't think necessarily that the DM who did this had a negative motive behind their actions, though this is a possibility, but would say there is a difference in making something challenging and something punitive. For example, this DM could have had the wyrmling attack me in not such a difficult place or in a place that gave me some ability to evade and escape. The message that it sends is considerably different then the one I felt otherwise.
Another time a character died at what I felt was somewhat unusual circumstances was when I was playing Lambert in the Inn in Maldovia. I entered the Inn with a wolf and my character. I believe the wolf was fully buffed with stone skin but was killed remarkably quickly, so quickly that I thiough it was DM killed and not mosnter killed. Then my character, a few seconds later, had his armor ripped off of him, and then his shield ripped of of him and was made short work of. Total coincidence or just bad luck? Again I'm not sure due to things that have happened and things I have heard happen.
But, Having been the annoyed by DMs in other servers, for example having my rests interrupted or having some of my fairly found good items removed from me without consultation or something given in return, I think it is good to bring potential abuses to light.
I felt compelled to mention it also because of a episode told to me by Rasputin where he had nearly killed a powerful vampire in Maldovia with another character, where they and the mosnter was near death, and the mosnter suddenly (possibly though I am uncertain how to be sure) was DM controlled and killed them.
Again, take control of the monster either at the very beginning of a combat to let players know to expect a sligthly more difficult encounter, but not when they are near death. It sends a totally different message. One is I want to play with you and make it fun, different, and challenging, and the other is I just wanted to kill you.
Why did you want to kill me then the person asks? They suddenly feel that they have upset a DM for some reason, and they are taking it out on them. That is a posable conclusion that any player would make. The next question would be why, and this can lead to pointless conjecture and negativity, hence the need to be open.
Now we don't live in a world where communication is perfectly done. A persons intent might be completely different then the end result, but it is helpful I think to discuss what happened from the players perspective and how it made them feel, so that the DMs and the Players learn.
I have had many extremely positive DM interactions in Vives as well. These where related to Aros, Korushavar, and Fenrisk/Fennel. They were good in my mind mostly because they involved great rp and storyline versus punitive combat.
Lambert |
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 22 Mar 2004 08:49 PM |
| The wyrmlings have see invisiblity man, they can see hidden creatures pretty well. Just so ya know ;) |
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 22 Mar 2004 08:51 PM |
Yep that is true, I know that.
But do they breath on dead characters? |
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 22 Mar 2004 09:17 PM |
| Often, the AI will not consider you dead untill you are -11, this means that that sometimes the beasties will continue to attack you untill you are well and truelly dead. |
~Alosynth
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 22 Mar 2004 09:21 PM |
Are you saying that I am paranoid?
*shooos away the voices talking to him*
I'm not paranoid!
No I'm not!
=) |
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 22 Mar 2004 10:46 PM |
| Those things Lambert was fighting in Maldovia will yank your armor right off of ya sometimes (though it has never happend to me, I have seen it happen to other ppl) I can't remember the creatures names (reaver of ***** or ****** reaver maybe??) whatever the name is, those things that are inside the Inn of Maldovia. |
My lamentable plight... I am calamity.
fire... burning....agony...
sultry shivers of a dark essence
why am i tortured with this nihilistic existence?
-Maddox |
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 22 Mar 2004 11:15 PM |
Arent Wyrmling just a younger form of dragon just between Young and Hatchling?
If so such cunning should be expected since dragon are highly intelligent.
And O! why should DM warn us they are taking over a monster we should never excpect fights to be easy we should always be wary of changes its not because it was like that the 20 times you did it before that it should always be like that.
I read once in a D&D book or Dragon Magazine I dont remember wich one, I read so many of them "If a player can do it why cant a monster do it?" |
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 22 Mar 2004 11:54 PM |
| Whether right or wrong, I'm thinking that the reason behind this may have been repeated entrance using invisibility and other methods. Some DMs would consider this exploitative, because the AI isn't smart enough to learn. The Fire Giants should be intelligent, at least on paper, so perhaps they have finally figured out where and how their missing treasures were taken. |
-æsir
"The man that finds himself at a crossroads, and unsure of direction, is not lost. For in truth, all roads will carry him to the same destination - his fate. But it is the determined man that takes the next step." -Aren
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 23 Mar 2004 12:26 AM |
This is actually something I have been thinking about since I am a sneaker/looter with my right-sized. In some way, places of good treasure need to have better security, it is way to easy for thieves to re-loot areas for serious treasure. In my mind, DM's should have the ability to make it real tough on the thief, create a rp scenario, "owner of the building comes into his room because he noticed the door open". Also, I would make it so that chests cannot be opened in direct view of the tenant, without some kind of action. Being able to walk in, unlock the chest, untrap it, and loot it while the guy stands there is dang boring, and really unreal. Just some thoughts.
Molo..... |
So a cleric, a ranger, and a thief walk into a bar, which one am I?
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 23 Mar 2004 07:05 AM |
I never said a DM should warn a player, but I am someone who looks at intent and execution of actions that reveal subconciuous wishes and intent.
A person who has a conflict inside themselves may take out agression on players by being punitive and negative because they are unable to mediate fealings properly within themselves.
The DM position is a tricky one because they are cloaked by invisibility, their identities are unkown, therefore the magnituted of responsibility for their actions is diminished and a certain amount of restrictive inhibitions is not there.
Some DMs feel justified within their own emotional state in game to do things when they feel that they or the game of Vives has been wronged. What they do will be helpful or harmful depending on how able they are to understand and come to terms with their own conflicts and to see clearly and empathically how they effect others.
Also, be bringing these things to light, the DMs who do them can understand more clearly the effect they have on others. Not all people who do bad things do it with awaireness.
Lam |
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Re: Aloria Sneakin
Posted: 23 Mar 2004 07:54 AM |
Ok since Lam brought this up I'll post my comments reagrding his comment. First I want to say I think he is trying to be constructive. Second I want to say I wish he had asked me before posting something I said to him =)
Thirdly. The day in question was about 3 weeks ago now. I was upset at the time of death, but have since gotten completely over it. Sinjin was with Sirac and we entered the Castle of Valinor. We proceeded cautiously around, and eventually up to Natika. We had her to near death after having used 5 stoneskin scrolls, 5 or 6 haste potions, about 20 heal kits and many various other porions (im tellling you this to dsecribe the length and magnitude of combat). Then at the very end when she was literally 10 hp from death, she got hasted and was given true sight, so our hiding in shaodws which had worked a few times previously no longer worked. This resulted in my death. Im fine with death, it just seems a bit mean to drastically alter combat in such a way at the very end of combat - and furthermore, to kill me as I was trying to run! Im really glad a. Sirac got away and was able to get a party to rescue me and b. I was only dead for a day, because lets face it, being dead doesnt agree with me.
And, yet again, Im sure to get flamed for this one, so fire away.
I love Vives and the reason I come back every day is for RP with DM's and Players, stories and quests. You guys do a great job and I hope you dont smite me for relaying this. If so I want my one phone call please =p |
Humbly Submitted,
Sinjin Kane |
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